If you believe inthe separation of Church and State - are you a "Radical Secularist" ? (gasp)

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/19/politics/main2828219.shtml

What the F!@# do you think he (Gingrich) is talking about?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Damn straight.

And Newt is a fundie-pandering, detestable prick.

[Gogi]

2. No...

I'm a patriotic American. Gingrich always spews anti-American bilge.

[baldguy]

3. Are you a Republican...

or are you an American?

[Donnachaidh]

5. We really should REVERSE that argument and use it against THEM

After all, they've proven time and time again they are far more concerned with their PARTY than their country.

Are you an AMERICAN -- or a republican?

THAT feels like the truth to me.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Better than being christian.

[treestar]

6. No one told them they can't discuss religion in public

Claiming to be persecuted, as usual. But it's just not true. He just expects to be able to do it and not be questioned.

[Nikki Stone1]

7. No, I am just in the fine tradition of our founding fathers

:)

[and-justice-for-all]

8. Church and State seperation is NOT a myth...

..As put to us by Religious Zealots. It states very clearly in a language meant to be understood and not misinterpreted that "The State shall not recognise the establishment of any religion"; The only way for this to be misrepresented or misunderstood is with denial from the obvious.

"God" is NOT mentioned at all within the Constitution, clearly deisplaying the Speration of State and Church.

Speration of Church and State requiers no belief, it is stated clearly in the Constitution.

[Adsos Letter]

11. and, as I am sure you well know,

the "God" referred to in the Declaration of Independance is the "God" of the Deists...

As someone with a BA in History, and currently working towards an MA in same, I am alternately mystified and horrified by the average American's lack of even a rudimentary knowledge of the fundamental concepts of American History.

[and-justice-for-all]

21. The Declaration of Independance ...

Is not the law of the land, the Constitution is.

[Adsos Letter]

25. I understand this..just trying to drive home the point that

even the "deity" referred to in the Declaration of Independance is not of the Christian variety.

[sutz12]

24. Not "God"....."Creator". subtle difference, but meaningful.

[Adsos Letter]

26. Agreed.

Also would be helpful if more people realized that our rights are inherent, not bequeathed to us by government. Government's job is to safeguard those rights, if it wants to remain legitimate.

[Adsos Letter]

29. Some excellent books to counter your theocratically minded friends

with (outside of things like "The Federalist Papers, Constitution, Jefferson's "Memorial and Remomstrance...", etc.)

"Sworn on the Altar of God: A Religious Biography of Thomas Jefferson" by Gaustad

"The Godless Constitution" by Kramnick and Moore

"The Founding Fathers and the Place of Religion in America" by Lambert

Obviously, the list could be quite lengthy...

A couple of good site for examining some of the broader issues of theocracy and Right-wing populism:

http://www.publiceye.org/index.html

http://www.talk2action.org/


:hi:

[Adsos Letter]

9. Well...I am a Christian...and I support the absolute separation

of church from state...including revocation of tax-exempt status for churches.

I support it with funds to "American's United" and the "ACLU".

Why do Gingrich and his fellow-travelers hate America so much? :shrug: I think they hate us for our (traditional) freedoms...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. No,you are one who realizes

the ONLY way to protect anyone's right to worship as they please is to make sure the government and religion stay separate.

[Adsos Letter]

12. Amen... n/t

[Adsos Letter]

13. don't tell me I killed another thread...this is getting discouraging

Do I need to bathe more? :D

[Double T]

14. Radical Secularist HERE!!

To quote and adopt the wisdom of Patrick Henry: "Give me Separation of Church and State, or give me death".

[hyphenate]

15. Yup--

I'm a radical secularist. But then, so were Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, Thomas Paine and many, many others.

PS: GMTA!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2852094

[OHdem10]

16. Could it be that since he is most likely going to run

for President, Newt(Master Wordsmith) has designed
a way for a Presidential Candidate to attack the left
and Secularism without appearing out in "Right Field"?>

The Fundamentalist never accepted or came to grips with
the enlightenment. Their struggles are against Secularism
period. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell use to use
their TV Programs going after Secularism--the books they
authored also. Secularism, period.

Most of us know this is a Secular Country.

A Presidential Candidate or any other Republican can turn
the independent voters (that mysterious middle) could
frighten the "BeJesus" out that group if he came out
blasting Secularism.

Newt is the Framer, par Excellence in the Republican party.
This , using words as weapons was and is a major tool
in the Republican Party. He and Frank Luntz (political
advisor and pollster) worked at this sort of thing very
seriously. Luntz actually polls on Words and uses focus
groups. This is why Republicans always refer to Climate
Change and not global warming.

Now, If you really want to go after the far-left and some
liberals, and bring the country with you--what is a guy
to do???

Simple: Use Radical as the Adjective to the noun Secularism.

Radical Sounds BAD. "Radical Secularism" they think will
play with the "Middle". Then they hopefully think they
can eventually sneak in what ever the Fundies want.They can
and will be attacking Secularism but calling it Radical.

Do not forget the Dominionists Dreams.


Ihave watched a lot of programs in which Frank Luntz was
featured. He has a new book out "Words That Work"
which explains this whole theory of Words as Weapons

Newt Gingrich has done a lot of C_-Span and I watched
as he did the Republican Rout of 94.

Just so no one thinks I am making stuff up here.

[mike_c]

17. I'm worse than a radical secularist....

I'm an atheist. Keep religion out of public life, period!

[Adsos Letter]

20. well...that's the point

no one should have to take-up second class citizenship because of their metaphysical beliefs. And religion must be kept out of taxpayer financed institutions...and the whole "faith-based" scam has to be counted as among the biggest intrusions of religion into public life...and, I'm afraid it's full effects are yet to be felt.

The Founders set up a good system...why do the Theocrats hate America? :shrug:

[Cerridwen]

18. Yo! Reporting for "duty".

Religion doesn't belong in government any more than government belongs in religion. You have one, you get the other. Too bad the people who listen to snake-oil salesmen who call themselves "religious" don't get that.

[lostnotforgotten]

19. Rabid Fundamentalists - ReFrame The Debate

Don't let them define you!

Redefine them!

[Adsos Letter]

22. Yes !

This has been the problem with way too many Christians who value Church/State separation...we have too often yielded the megaphone to the folks who want to destoy freedom of conscience.

I volunteer time as our church's religious liberty guy...distributing information to congress and the public regarding the necessity of reclaiming and maintaining a separation of church and state.

The purpose of Government is to provide for the common good, the defense of the nation, and the safety of the citizenry.

[bemildred]

23. Newt is trying to frame the debate.

I remember back in the 60s and 70s when being "radical" was cool. That is part of why they are so anxious to use it as a discrediting meme now.

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. Apparently I am, then.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. I was a radical secularist before Newt and Bill O'Reilly made it hip.

Fucking A.

[rucky]

30. Not a "radical" secularist...

A TOTALLY BITCHIN' Secularist!