I'm from the vertebrate wing of the Democratic Party and I don't want to play nice.

[Atticus]

For years it was accepted wisdom that "responsible adults" tolerated their political opposition with good humor and civility. "After all, we're all Americans" seemed to be the dominant attitude and those who actually raised their voices or refused to listen patiently to the arguments of the "loyal opposition" were considered hotheads and ideologues.

I submit that those days are gone and will not likely return in my lifetime.

As Democrats and progessives, our opposition has offered nothing except arrogance, lies, greed, hatred and fear for the last several decades. These people are not the loyal opposition. They are either plutocrats, religious whackos, well paid whores or ain't-got-a-clue dupes. None of them are worthy of our respect or our tolerance.

Many of them would like to make being a Democrat a crime and make no bones about their intent to destroy us if they are given the opportunity.

If you are gay, a person of color, a woman, a union member or an outspoken opponent of corporatism, the other side has plans for you. Think discrimination; oppression; persecution.

Bipartisanship, for now, is a myth that serves only the corporate state and their functionaries.

These people---the GOP leadership, the Teabaggers, the wingnut media personalities---should not be allowed ANY uncontested victories. People who quote them, support them or even condone them should be challenged and shamed as promoting destructive and unpatriotic attitudes and unAmerican political agendas.

We need to THINK, people! We need to understand that if all we know about an issue came from the MSM, we know only what the corporatists want us to know, and that seldom includes the truth. We have to inform ourselves and educate our families, our friends and our neighbors.

The facts are on our side. We just have to be willing to use them---as bludgeons, if necessary.

And, those elected to lead us who prove unable or unwilling to do so should be identified, primaried and replaced. We need several dozen more Alan Graysons: leaders willing to say "This is what I truly believe needs doing. These are my values. These are my priorities. If you don't agree, replace me. I will not abandon my principles simply to buy another term in office."

No whining. No caving. No accomodations.

Let's dance.

[yourout]

1. KnR

[RKP5637]

2. Exactly!!! "We need several dozen more Alan Graysons!" This make nice and

hold hands BS is getting us nowhere. These new republicans are out to bury democrats, and all should recognize that... this is no longer about bipartisanship. Many of the R's are certifiable crackpots.

[glinda]

4. That is a fact x100. Time to find the verbally/ethically strongest and elect them.

[RKP5637]

8. IMO a start it to dump all Blue Dogs - I don't think they serve the interests of

the democratic party and just keep leading us more and more further to the right.

[glinda]

10. It could happen if you educated the public....

[RKP5637]

12. Quite true! Also, it seems a large percentage of the populace wants to remain ignorant. Of course,

the MSM is generally of no help. I also find the messaging by current democrats in office to be woefully lacking. I also often find the internal conflicts within the democrats, with respect to taking a singular action, to be as combative as dealing with republicans for compromise. And that sends a conflicting message to the public and a lack of demonstrated cohesion. I often walk away wondering WTF, so I can imagine what independents must sometimes think...

[glinda]

24. People don't want to be ignorant. Some people only look for excuses for hate.

[RKP5637]

32. That certainly is abundant, hatred. I often think it doesn't matter to them who or what

the cause, just as long as there's an excuse tor hatred. It's pathetic. It's a severe level of frustration and fear manifesting itself as pure hatred. And then they are manipulated to pursue the agenda. I think many have absolutely no idea how much they are being manipulated and used by powerful well monied interests.

[Techn0Girl]

19. Don't Forget Al Franken or Barney Frank as well!

[RKP5637]

34. Yep!!! n/t

[pattmarty]

40. Dick Durbin, Dennis Kucinich, Sherrod Brown. I have been saying.....

..........that there are probably 20 truly "liberal" Senators and maybe 100 Representatives that are too. We have a "few", but we need more.

[DesertFlower]

71. yes. nt

[DesertFlower]

70. yes. alan grayson, anthony weiner

and bernie sanders.

[RKP5637]

73. Yep, all great leaders IMO. n/t

[RKP5637]

74. dupe n/t

[PSzymeczek]

94. Can't forget Bernie

He's America's Senator.

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Then you will need to elect a really big majority in both houses...

because our system was designed for compromise, and it is Conservative refusal to compromise and work across the aisle that is close to collapsing the government.

[Atticus]

6. How is it that the Dark Side seems to be able to implement their agenda with just

a "majority", but we can't do diddly squat unless we have a "really big majority"?





Time is up. The answer?

They don't waste any energy or time trying to be nice or considering our views. They look for 51% and ram through whatever they believe will insure their continued power and prosperity.

In the long run, if only one side is willing to compromise, that side loses. Period.

[Ozymanithrax]

7. Difference in governing philosophy...

Elected Democrats follow the historical notion that it is necessary to govern, and compromise when the other side has power.

Republians have much better party discipline, becuse the grow up marching in straight lines and counting cadence.

[Atticus]

9. I agree with your assessment, but wonder how long that dynamic can remain in place.

I'm thinking that the tectonic plates that compose our democracy are about to "release" and that the fault lines will run to quarters (almost) none of us anticipate.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. Modern parties have revealed a flaw in the Constitution...

The Constitution does deal with parties other than freedom of association. Because of that, we have developed into a two party systems, where state laws are written to protect two parties. The winner take all aspect of our system exacerbates this problem.

In modern times, the Republican party has developed a culture of party loyalty. They can demand party cohesion with much better results than Democrats have managed since 1950. The really big important progressive bills created by Democrats (Civil Rights Act of 1964 being one) were all passed when Democrats had huge majorities. Even in those times, there was a lot of Democrats who refuse to vote on those bills, and Republicans compromised.

Especially since Reagan, the Republican Party has grown more Conservative, more disciplined, and less willing to compromise. This discipline worked for them so that with a 51 seat voting block in the Senate, and a small majority in the House, they could force their members to vote as a block and could always get enough Democrats to compromise to get things done. Out of power, and with Democrats having a 60 seat majority, Republicans, in most cases, voted in a block and were able to pick off enough centrists Democrats to control the flow of legislation.

In order for Democrats to actually do what you want, you need to create this same cohesion in the Democratic party. Democrats would have to vote in a block, they are not good at doing that. Differences of opinion are far more tolerated in the Democratic Party and they write bills to conform to what the most centrists, or even right of center Democrat will vote for rather than whipping the party to vote for it.

You would need to either be able to force "blue dog dems" to vote party line or replace them with more liberal Democrats, which probably won't happen in a lot of the districts where blue dogs were elected. Removing "Blue Dogs" from power will probably lead to swing power into the Republicans.

It is my belief, and a few of the media talking heads agree, that are pushing to make the country ungovernable without them in power. In power, the economic ideas will lead to the collapse of the economy. The only good thing I can say about them is that most of them are so self deluded they drink their own piss claim it is champagne.

I see two possible fixes for this Constitutional flaw.
(1) Mandatory voting. Charge people a $800.00 tax fine for not voting. This will bring the majority of Americans into the voting booth and probably lead to more candidates that reflect the philosophy of the nation.
(2) Change the rules for parties so that other parties actually have a chance of electing people. With three, four, or five major parties no single group would get so much power.

I don't think either will happen. The simple answer is the dynamic will remain in place until the economy driven by Conservative fantasy theory collapses, which would probably be followed with a collapse of the government in the same vein as that of the old Soviet Union.

[Tutankhamun]

21. I've been thinking the same thing about our government collapsing, Soviet style.

[txlibdem]

76. Mandatory voting -- when RW controls all media outlets?

Step 1 has to be to break up these media conglomerates into tiny, tiny pieces; allow no person, group, or corp to own more than 1 tv station + 1 radio station + 1 newspaper +1 website (and ownership of a second group in any fraction will count towards your limit so you can't be like the billionaire Koch brothers who have hundreds of "small" businesses then assume you get 100s of tv stations. No).

Step 2 end the multi-year campaign cycle. Limit campaigning to the 45 days prior to the election day. No political commercials or ads of any kind are allowed outside that window. Public funding for all candidates is mandatory. Each candidate becomes eligible for funds once he/she has gathered signatures of at least 1% of the adults in that district, state, or .5% of the nation.

Step 3 end pacs, and any outside groups that make ads against a candidate. Interest groups may only advertise on a current ballot measure. The candidates will receive their own time, perhaps their own tv channel devoted to politics (C-Span 4?). No group may oppose any legislation unless they, too, gather the same required number of signatures as the candidates.

Step 4. Then -and only then- make voting mandatory or have a penalty. Perhaps a little softer, say a penalty of $100 or 1% of your income whichever is less for not voting in two consecutive elections.

Hopefully, that would be a good start.

[rpannier]

90. I would add one thing to your points

1. Republicans are willing to invoke a 'scorched-earth policy' whereby they will shut down everything in order to achieve their goals.
Since they view government as an evil, they see nothing wrong with preventing it from functioning at all because it's a hindrance.
They will filibuster any bill they don't like even at the expense of keeping aid out of the hands of the neediest in society because they don't care what the effects are.
Democrats are unwilling to filibuster and the Republicans know this. They realize that, in those rare moments they can't keep party cohesion, they can turn to Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieux or Blanche Lincoln for support.

2. Republicans, whether they like to admit it or not, are closer to a British-, Japanese-style Parliamentary Party than the Democrats are. The Republicans are always in national politics mode. When you vote for Generic Republican A, you are getting someone who will vote for the national party platform 85+% of the time and 99% on all key issues.
When you vote for a Democrat, you are voting for an individual who may or may not share the national party platform on some key issues, but will break with the party if their constituents are opposed. These Democrats seem to view every vote as a do-or-die issue and are quite often unwilling to fall on their sword for the party.

[RKP5637]

11. While I certainly agree with the historical notion you discussed, and that

worked well with many republicans at one time. And deals were struck toward the notion of what was best for the nation and ALL citizens, as best as possible. However, I'm starting to wonder if that will work in the 21st century with this new breed of republicans. Frankly, this new breed seems to be a herd of psychopaths.

[Ozymanithrax]

22. They are fanatics than psychopaths..but the affect is the same.

But as long as they can enforce party discipline as they do, so that even the most centrist of their group vote most of the time as the party dictates, they will be successful in obstructing any Democratic administrastion and pushing their agenda when in power not matter how bad that is for the nation.

[RKP5637]

25. Therein lies the future success of the democratic party, to get all of the wood

behind one arrow, than many individual arrows going different directions. Our mantra was all of the wood behind one arrow.

That, I think, is where a lot of improvement is required in the democratic party. Sharp, focused direction around a stake driven in the ground as to points and principle, agreed in the moves forward and in "one" playbook.

The public needs to see the democrats as one cohesive force/group, and the stake driven in the ground will waver little. March forward, lock step, and get the mission accomplished including consistently voting in block. I think the paradigm used by the democrats must change for the 21st century for success.

[nannah]

48. hard to do when your funders want the tip pointed

in the opposite direction from the rest your supporters. look at single payer health care.... 70% of americans in favor of it yet it never was on the table for discussion. it is the power of money over people that keeps the arrow pointed away from the wishes of the american public. shift to today's discussion of taxing income over $250,000.00 a year at a higher rate; clearly supported by a majority of americans, it wasn't brought up for a vote last week but pended till after the election.

oh, and an overwhelming spewing of misinformation to keep people a bit confused or rabidly misinformed!!! not by accident.

the age old question surfaces...qui bono, who benefits?

edited for spelling and a bit more rant on a rainy sunday morning.

[RKP5637]

54. Yeah, basically reminds me of Chaos theory. It also needs to be led from the

top down and I just don't see that happening... congressional bribery well and alive...

[Capitalocracy]

51. Governing is one thing

Helping shred the constitution is another.

What's the justification for the Patriot Act or failing to impeach or investigate war crimes? The necessity to get along with the other side in order to govern and not have them block everything we try to pass? Oh wait...

[bertman]

23. It helps hugely if you own the media companies that control the message.

Without the constant barrage of Tea Party hype, those buttheads would have wilted like plants without water.

But I agree with you, Atticus. Our leadership has no spine. Without strong leadership the followers are lost.

Recommend.

[JamesA1102]

38. Well said nt

[msongs]

5. I welcome their hate vs please please love me just this one time lol

[indy legend]

13. AMEN +1

[sendero]

14. I've been dreaming ...

.... of this for 10 years and so far I see no sign of my dream coming true.

[The Magistrate]

16. Hear Hear, Sir!

[Froward69]

17. Treat republicans like they treat others...

IT REALLY PISSES THEM OFF!!! and a fun way of exposing just how juvenile they are.

[hendo]

18. the M$M has rarely if ever

published anything that the EFF has done. Heck, most people don't even know what the EFF is attempting to protect us from because the M$M never covers the issues in the first place. 'Tis a shame.

[nannah]

78. eff???what is that???

[hendo]

79. The Electronic Frontier Foundation

Read up, they want to save us from an oppressive government.

edit: added link www.eff.org/

[nannah]

82. thanks :) in WA state the eff is the evergreen freedom

foundation which is a right wing misrepresenting organization.

[hendo]

98. EFF is largely non-partisan, definately not a right wing group ;) NT

[nannah]

100. liberterian according to their literture, n/t

[earthboundmisfit]

20. Goddamned right! Screw "reaching across the aisle" ...

Screw the spineless centrist bullshit - and why the FUCK do they persist with it?!?

[prole_for_peace]

58. Mega-ditto!!

The party reaches across the aisle and has their hand slapped or bitten. FUCK THAT!! If we are in the majority then we should take advantage of that.

And screw the blue dogs...

[PufPuf23]

26. You are correct.

The Congress and Executive branches of the Democratic Party are complicit in not supporting their own stated platform.

The nation is at more risk than at anytime in my life.

We would be better to go isolationist and accept a lower but fairer standard of living than the current trajectory.

This is not necessary or wise (as most Americans are good and fair in intent) and as much as any nation have the ability to face the future honestly.

The shift in the distribution of wealth and income; failed economic and educational systems (not because of the public education scapegoat); and secrecy, dishonesty, and croneyism in the politcal, legal, and corporate management classes are core causes of the social, economic, and environmental meltdown we face.

[RKP5637]

81. It's clearly headed for a meltdown. The next 2 years or so will be quite telling IMO. My gut

feeling is it will come on faster than slower, just how long can we keep everything propped up with smoke and mirrors maintaining what you said quite well in your last paragraph; "The shift in the distribution of wealth and income; failed economic and educational systems (not because of the public education scapegoat); and secrecy, dishonesty, and cronyism in the political, legal, and corporate management classes are core causes of the social, economic, and environmental meltdown we face."

For many many decades I was hopeful we as a country could work through the mess, but anymore I'm not so sure. One can only pile on so much crap, before the whole house of cards crashes in... And the disinformation, propaganda and lies of today are so prevalent. I'm willing to bet many in our society do not have the vaguest idea was is the actual truth in many many areas. Most are just parrots of their own ideology often forced onto them by charlatans and they take the bait.

[woo me with science]

27. I don't agree that the problem is a drive to compromise their own principles

in order to please anybody.

I think this administration is doing exactly what they want to do and what they believe in. They have pushed through legislation unpopular with a majority of the American people AND unpopular with Republicans.

The Health Insurance bill was opposed by a majority of Democrats AND Republicans, and yet it was shoved down our throats. I remember sitting open-mouthed while some cheerleader from the administration opined on one of the Sunday talk shows that the fact it was opposed by both the left and the right "means we're charting a pretty good middle course."

Ditto for bank bailouts.

They aren't compromising anything. They're shoving through what they want, and they couldn't care less what any of us think. Where have we seen this before?

[McCamy Taylor]

28. K &R. I get so sick of being told "this won't help up win elections!"

You know what wins elections in this country? An angry electorate. If people get mad enough, they turn out to vote.

[Historic NY]

29. Personally I'd like to bitch slap all the Republicans with a fucking baseball bat...from Louisville.

[WillyT]

30. HUGE K & R !!!

:applause::applause::applause:

:yourock:

:kick:

[Scuba]

31. Saw a Feingold T-Shirt with a spine printed on the back yesterday. Awesome.

[RKP5637]

33. +1, n/t

[jotsy]

35. I'll boogie cuz I like the tune Atticus

Mis and disinformation is only going to dominate for as long as we fail to work in building alternatives. Below are a couple of links for those tired of waiting for the gatekeepers to do the job and ready to be active as a citizen based media, DU has the numbers in membership to be a factor in the sway of more candid and genuine public info.

A vast array of resources for the information hunter, sponsored by the Society of Professional Journalists.
<http://www.journaliststoolbox.org/>

Free Press is a media reform organization.
<http://www.freepress.net/>

I get my news from a great many different sources, Thom Hartmann would be as close as I get to mainstream. When I watch cable news, it's to see what they're peddling and how they're spinning. Anytime a celebrity incident is big constant news, you can bet something important is being buried. It can be found, we just gotta know where to look. The list of progressive community organizations at Common Dreams is a good list, as is the blogroll on the front page here, though it could do with a little updating, IMHO.

A long standing member here recently sited an article with poll info that was over a year old and written by a recognizable right winger, I was so embarrassed for the poster, who really didn't seem to understand that he or she was circulating opposing political propaganda here. Seems to make the case for familiarizing folks with new and better sources.

K and R

[CanonRay]

36. Should have done this years ago.

[BrklynLiberal]

37. Bruce Springsteen..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN5e2qZr1Oc&feature=related

not this...........

[RetroLounge]

39. Hell, Yeah!

K&R

RL

[Paladin]

41. Dead Solid Perfect, Atticus.

Bending over backwards to accommodate the right-wingers, making the naive assumption that they are decent, grown-up, intelligent people who play by the rules, is exactly how we got ourselves into this sorry-assed position. Time to rumble.....

[formercia]

42. I'm an'Assholes are fair Game' Liberal. n/t

[ChiciB1]

43. AND YET... Right Here On DU We Seem To Have A WHOLE Group Who

"blindly" support almost EVERYTHING OBAMA!! Talk a walk on the "wild side" I say!! This Democratic Party is NO Party I've EVER seen before in my LIFETIME as a Democrat!

I feel abused, betrayed and "f--ked OVER all in one fell swoop! It's gotten to the point that I almost FEAR calling myself a Democrat! Repukes call Obama a LIBERAL with an agenda, which is so out of touch with reality, so defending THAT point isn't even possible because its so absurd. Fellow Democrats HERE call him PROGRESSIVE, which at this point in time I don't even see, SO WHERE THE HELL DO those of us who loved a once great Democratic Party go??

I REALLY have NO CLUE! NONE AT ALL!!
:nuke:

[felix_numinous]

44. The RW is who 'hates us for our freedoms'

No rights for: women, gays, minorities, immigrants, free thinkers, people out of work and without a home, non fundamentalist--did I miss anyone?

What is going on is not regular party politics, the corporations try to make us think it is, they are not even real "Republicans", if so we would be able to have a real dialogue with them. These special interest groups want to change our way of life by changing our government. It has been underway for some time now. There are good honest people still working for us, thankfully, and they need our support.

Great post Atticus, I like the way you think.

[rainlillie]

45. YES! This post is pure perfection!

[MannyGoldstein]

46. Proud to be rec 100 - FDR Democrats unite!

After FDR was in office only two years, the Republicans were smashed to bits: the midterm elections saw Republicans taken down to 17 senators.

People respond to real Democrats like FDR and Grayson, not to crypto-Republicans like most of the rest of our "leadership".

[RufusTFirefly]

56. +1 Democrats should act like Democrats and not apologize for doing so

Our opposition is a corporate creation.
If reasonable people are given the facts and see an exhibition of true leadership, they will support us. In droves.

We will never win over the corporate fat cats. Never. Nor should we try. Their rapacious goals are antithetical to the interests of this country and to the vast majority of Americans.

"We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace: business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

"They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

"Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me – and I welcome their hatred."
-- President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Democrat.

[bluestateboomer]

47. K&R

Couldn't "K" any harder or "R" any more enthusiastically!:kick:

[Vinca]

49. The Vertebrate Wing. LOL. Perfect!

[clarence swinney]

50. Clinton to Bush to Obama

How can a party ignore so may nukes?
slap em silly

How can a party allow such a horrid party to get re-elected
Clinton left Bush Heaven On Earth
Bush left Obama Hell on Earth
Clinton left Bush an 1800B Budget and four balanced budgets 
Bush Left Obama  3600B Budget
Clinton left Bush a 5700B of Debt
Bush left Obama 11,800B of Debt
Clinton left Bush a 237,00 new net jobs created per month
Bush left Obama a 31,000 lowest since Hoover.
Clinton left Bush Peace on Earth
Bush left Obama Hell on Earth Two disastrous wars
Clinton left Bush a President most highly rated of any peacetime President in Asia, Africa, Europe.
Bush left Obama the most hated President in history
Bush left Obama an Housing Tsunami and Financial Volcano
Bush left Obama, in 2008, an 8500B Bail out commitment
Bush left Obama his Takeover of Fannie/Freddie , AIG, and first bailout of Chrysler
 
How can any honest informed person vote to re-continue such horrid actions and results?
 
clarence swinney olduglymeanhonest
political historian
lifeaholics of america
author-Lifeaholic--Life story of workaholic failure to lifeaholic success
University President-  "Every college student should have this book"

[jwirr]

52. When my sister was getting a divorce she was throwing a tantrum

and getting kicked all over the place. She was not using her head. I asked if when she played basketball if she would have played like she was now. She calmed down and started thinking. The point I am trying to make is that nice or naughty we need to play smart. We need to do what it takes to have as close to the majority in both houses as we can get. What ever it takes.

[The Uncola]

53. Thank you Atticus

I stand with you. No more compromise, period. If that costs us votes from teabaggers (As if!), so be it.

[laughingliberal]

55. If only....K & R eom

[foxfeet]

57. K&R

[bobbolink]

59. Could you please include poor people in your listing?

I'm asking nicely, but like you, I am getting damned tired of being left out.

Also, as much as I like Grayson, he doesn't recognize poor people, either.

:nuke:

Its time to recognize that poor people are the niggers of today.

[Odin2005]

60. Yup. Interesting that the poor were ignored by the OP.

Latte "Liberals" strike again!

[bobbolink]

63. We are always ignored (very few exceptions) and I am getting damned tired of asking politely to be

included.

Yet, they will heap shit on our head if we DARE to say the Dems aren't doing shit for us.

:nuke:

Latte liberals, indeed.

BASTA!

[Atticus]

64. Sure, I can include the poor. Please don't take offense at the omission. Some of the

categories of people who would be adversely impacted by a Teabagger takeover HAD to be left out or the list would have filled your screen.

I also did not mention bisexuals, transexuals, addicts and those with rare or very expensive illnesses, but all of those people, many of them also "poor" would not fare well under the Dark Side's rule.

I appreciate your passion.

[bobbolink]

65. We are ALWAYS left out... ALWAYS ignored.

And, yes, I am offended, and will continue saying it.

Most of you leave us out, yet you expect us to keep voting for *your* candidates.

You need to take a new look at your expectations, and who you *really* connect yourself to.

[Atticus]

80. I really am on your side. I hope you'll be on mine. I also hope that all the other

categories of people I did not mention don't also take offense.

The poor aren't "ALWAYS" left out and ignored, but they are too often.

Let's hope we can move from "my" candidates and "your" candidates to "OUR" candidates.

[bobbolink]

85. I sincerely hope you *are* on "my" side. Then you will see the country through my eyes

and notice.... NONE of the campaign rhetoric, after Edwards dropped out, included POVERTY.

NONE of it.

Take a look at all the priority lists that get posted here and do a count of just how many of them ever include poverty.

Now we are getting cuts to everything.. the "safety net" is being shredded evem further, but we are suppposed to shut up and vote.

Look at your favorite TV pundants... Rachel, Keith, Schultz. How often do they even mention poverty? When have they last tried to educate the woefully ignorant "liberals" who support them?

Then listen to "progressive" radio... WHEN is homelessness mentioned at all, let alone talking about the REAL factors involved?

Those are just a few examples. During the Civil Rights era, there were counts done about how often black people were depicted, and in what kinds of situations, and of course, they were not proportionately represented, and usually when they were shown, it was in negative contexts. We are now facing exactly the same situation, and we are getting the same "liberal" reaction: "Its baby steps." "Take your turn." "You aren't the only ones"..... yada yada yada....

Imagine you are in OUR shoes. How would YOU like to be constantly ignored, when you are teetering on the brink of extinction, then get the angry demands that you shut up and vote?

[Atticus]

95. I was an Edwards supporter until he dropped out. His "two Americas" speech was the most

compelling oratory on the campaign trail.

And, then, of course, he broke our hearts and no one has stepped up to fill the void.

As bad as things are, there are still way more Democrats than Republicans trying to help "the least of these".

[bobbolink]

101. I know you want to believe that, and, sadly, you want *me* to believe that, but it just isn't

true.

Given that you can't hear the pain that I and thousands of others feel, and what we are suffering, there is no use in continuing this conversation.

I can't help but wonder... "How many deaths will it take til they know, that too many people have died?"

[Odin2005]

61. Excuse me, YOU FORGOT THE POOR!

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rainlillie]

66. You are after my own heart!

A few years ago there was a site that took a middle of the road position, right after Bush was put into office the second time. I was told we have to try to work with the republicans, reach across the aisle. I wanted to know how can we as Liberals compromise on things like; same sex marriage and a woman's right to choose? Why do we have to always be the the ones who back down and apologize? I'm an Independent and the lack of brass ones from the Democrat's, has kept me from joining the party.

Obama's biggest mistake when it comes to the opposition is: he underestimated how lowdown and rotten the republicans are. He thought he could reach them with reason and he thought they loved America as much as he does. He failed to realize republicans will throw their own mother's under the bus, backup and run her over, if it means gaining political points.

[Curmudgeoness]

67. Yes, got my dancing shoes on! nt

[femrap]

68. Damn right....let's dance! nt

[DesertFlower]

69. K&R. nt

[blondeatlast]

72. I used to be a "cheerleader" but no more. It's goddamned time we saved the country--

and hardball is the only way to do it.

[DainBramaged]

75. I've been saying this for over a year, the buttsniffers attack me each time

Read my journal.


DU, like vanilla ice cream, only good when it's frozen.

[Aaria]

77. Vertical Vertebrate

[on point]

83. The repukes declared war a long time ago

and they are fighting their political battles as if it is war. There is no point in compromising with them; not just because they are crazy and their ideas foolish, but because they do not intend to compromise themselves. Everything is about winning for them, not about doing something for society. Unless we understand they are on a war footing, and treat them like the foolish, ignorant idiots they are, they will see it as weakness and a chance to advance their side.

[kestrel91316]

84. I've been saying for years: These people want us DEAD.

Everybody laughed. But now they are starting to figure it out.

[AzNick]

86. Same here

I have the courage of opinions.

On Facebook, I advertise them freely.

It can even be googled.

Someone said it could prevent me from being hired. Too bad, then. I do not want to live as a slave.

[MissDeeds]

87. K&R !

[rhett o rick]

88. Who are you telling this to?? The grassroots progressive all agree, but the DLC seems

to enjoy a certain buddy-buddy relationship with the Republicans.

[Atticus]

91. I think you're correct---we do agree that this is what SHOULD be done, but a lot of us

"let it slide" when it comes to being pro-active.

We need to ACT.

We need to call out the co-workers, neighbors and even family members who repeat the right-wing talking points.

We need to complain---loudly---about the noise pollution of FOX radio or TV in a restaurant, bar or barbershop: "Turn that biased crap off or I'm out here!"

I agree with you. You agree with me. It's the rest of our world we need to educate and give the benefit of our good example.

I get in peoples' faces, if necessary, and most are truly surprised that a liberal has the gonads to talk back and stand his ground. Not everyone is my size and not everyone should risk getting in the face of wingnuts. Those of us who can, should.

[Little Star]

89. K&R

[treestar]

92. Well then don't play nice and see where that gets you

I would love to see if it would really work. Let's scream and yell and pound the table and see if we get the votes.

Of course in the real world, nothing gets done when people act like that, but whatever.

[Atticus]

96. I did not suggest that WE should "scream and yell and pound the table". I am saying that when THEY

do that, instead of saying "whatever" and turning the other cheek, we square off, look the wingnut in the eye and say something like "If my arguments made as little sense as yours, I'd scream and pound the table, too. Is that your entire act or will there be a dancing bear next?"

It is usually not too difficult to expose them as the cowardly ignoramuses they are. It just takes being informed, a little forethought and the gumption to draw your line in the sand.

In my real world, few wingnuts want a rematch.

[ce_qui_la_baise]

93. Which is why I voted for Hillary. She was pissed from the

start. Obama is fine but we needed an opponite of the right. He hadn't got bit on the ass yet so he had no idea how vile the right is. He's learning though. I just hope it's soon enough

[nc4bo]

97. huh??

[Jim_Shorts]

99. I defer to David Green

" I'm sorry, but surveying the landscape, it just feels so over now in America. We seem like little more than a popped balloon, with only the faux blustering fart noises of rapid deflation remaining where once there was an empire and once there were truly revolutionary and truly valuable ideas.

I would expect them (the repubs)to prevail again in 2012. Unless the jobs picture changes radically in 2011 - and no economist that I know of is predicting that - Obama is complete toast.

What they are proposing (on the economy)is to mathematics what a dropped object falling upward would be to physics?

History suggests that the years after 2012 could be the ones during which the wheels finally came off the wagon of what is left of American democracy".