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Is it time to abandon conspiracy theories? Whether its electoral fraud or Iraq,

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jerryme1 Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:15 AM
Original message
Is it time to abandon conspiracy theories? Whether its electoral fraud or Iraq,
we should examine the Constitution and structure of our government, and our current generation's general passivity, when analyzing our country's ills. I am not saying that some of the conspiracy theories are not likely true. But what's the point in wallowing in the reactionary world of conspiracy? What to do to move forward?
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nodehopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. have you read this?
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jerryme1 Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Again, I'm not saying all "conspiracies" are bogus.
What is the next step for us and our elected representatives?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Open the books - a lengthy Truth and Reconciliation hearing would heal the divide
in this country more than than any one personality or congress can.
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. That Article makes me so mad I could cry
Edited on Fri May-18-07 11:43 AM by libodem
I hate things that are not fair. It makes me crazy not to have a level playing field or to have someone cheat to win. I can't take it. But I can't let that anger paralyze me. I think the Conspiracy theories should be looked at seriously. Otherwise 'they' can do the most outrageous things and get away with it by saying that it couldn't happen in the first place. Nothing can be put past those Neocons. They will stop at nothing to come out on top. It means everything to them. It means MONEY mostly. Follow that money.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Truth is a STARTING POINT. That's why many countries coming out of turbulent times
hold lengthy Truth and Reconciliation hearings for the entire country to get the same set of facts before the divided parties.


Bush2 regime, 9-11, and this Iraq war happened BECAUSE truth was not a priority for Democrats in 1993.

How did that work out?

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. Investigations
Bushco has obfuscated and blocked the truth on pretty much all it has done. Finding the truth is the way forward.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. "What to do to move forward?"
Clean house, but it won't happen. Look, these "conspiracy theories" that everyone is always disparaging are theories of crimes. The theories abound because the crimes go uninvestigated. The way to put an end to the "theories" and "move forward" would be to actually investigate these crimes and act according to the findings - whatever they are. It is hard to establish a firm footing to a better future with criminals roaming free and intent on monkey-wrenching said better future. You really can't say to a crime victim, "Just get over it and move on. We aren't interested in any investigations or theories of how the crime was committed or by whom. Ok?"
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jerryme1 Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Who do we hold responsible for not investigating these crimes?
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. The individuals, departments, and agencies who are responsible.
For instance, the terrorist attacks on 9/11/01. The NYPD and or the NYSPD should have launched a massive investigation. They didn't. Why? Who decided not to investigate? When? The FBI should have set up in gigantic investigation. They didn't. Why? Etc.

The source of most legitimate conspiracy theories is the lack of a legitimate investigation or the setting up of a show-trial type of investigation, with your commissions and panels and so on.

These things hold true for every suspected crime. Let a legitimate investigative entity make a determination, publicly, and then we could "move on"...

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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. Conspiracy theories often turn out to be TRUE

It is an unfortunate label. Many times, conspiracy theories turn out to be correct. But, instead of giving credence to crucial dialogue, people brush off the most important of the important issues because they are labeled 'conspiracy theory'. Election fraud is not a conspiracy theory. It is a PROVEN fact. There isn't any 'conspiracy theory' around Iraq. Only truthes people don't want to acknowledge.

Conspiracy theory has become like the word 'liberal'. A smoke screen throwaway word used by the powers that be when someone gets to close to the truth.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. exactly.
people used to think the Watergate break ins, Iran-Contra, and the lies to start this war were conspiracy theories.

While some of the wilder ones can hurt our cause, to ignore the past is to be doomed to repeat it. In order to move forward, we have to know where we stand, and have knowledge of from where we came.

For instance, Project Ajax: once considered a conspiracy theory, "we" overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran in 1953 by a CIA coup. It's considered fact now, although maybe not common knowledge, and is one of several reasons we're still having trouble in the Middle East. To ignore it, is to incorrectly be able to figure out how to solve the problems there.

Sadly, our foreign policy has been dominated by similar CIA-run machinations, so we honestly have quite a lot to fix, but we can't ignore those "solutions" which lead to today's problems.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. to find the rats and roaches, you gotta shine a light on 'em.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. It is time to stop listening to low post folks telling us what to do.
Edited on Fri May-18-07 11:33 AM by gatorboy
This seems to be the trend lately. Where have you folks been?

Seriously, Iraq conspiracy theories? What does that mean, man?
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jerryme1 Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. How would a "low post" folk become a "high post" folk without posting?
What I'm saying, gatorboy, is hold your reprensentives accountable and stop crying.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Of Course, the "ole" "We're too angry" argument.
Edited on Fri May-18-07 11:41 AM by gatorboy
It seems to be popular with the right wingers these days. Why promote their talking points, hoss?

As far as the "low post" comment. It seems folks like you come here just to be "pissy" about Democrats. So why come here at all?


Welcome by the way! :hi:
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jerryme1 Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Not trying to be pissy about dems at all. I served in Iraq in 2003. I'm deeply concerned that
unless democrats are more proactive in holding their representatives accountable, protesting, etc..., dems will lose again in 2008. That's all.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Tell is what we can do in detail.
And again, I want to hear about these Iraq conspiracy's you've mentioned.

I'm all eye balls...
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. I noticed as well...
-low poster

-generalist comment about 'conspiracy' that could be made on any board including Free Republic (no end of 'conspiracies' there about liberals, democrats, gays, leftists, Arabs, etc etc)

-implied criticism that DU has a lot of conspiracy theories, without specifics other than electoral fraud and Iraq; both of which are hardly conspiracies and both of which are directly part of the democratic party re-election strategies.

-some dangler about "our current generation's general passivity" with no one in particular, just a 'current generation' which is purposely vague to general appeal. It's not a statement like: "this current generation of 'Congressional members'/ 'young voters'/'baby boom' -- again no specifics

-some cliche about 'moving forward'; a fav catch phrase of Commander Guy and the Right who love to 'put' such things behind them and decry the motives of people that want to talk about such conspiracies as 50 million missing emails, or 334 tons of US currency, or Gonzales pissing on Congress...
Also noteworthy:
Chuck Hagel's book is called Moving Forward (2004)
Paige's education initiative was called "Back to School, Moving Forward" (2001)

What a strange turn of phrase for a democratic party board...? A cynic might think that the GOP is trying to erase the last 6 years by going back to catchphrases they found successful back when they were champs.


The poster could have saved a lot of space by simply translating a Bush speech:
'what is past is past and Americans want their Congress to move forward in the spirit of non-partisanship, but Democrats won't allow it'



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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
10. Iraq is completely a conspiracy of deceit by the political
establishment. Not a conspiracy theory people have outside of politics.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. you mean the conspiracy theory about the 19 Arabs who destroyed America?
or the 100s of homegrown idiots who destroyed America. Aren't I supposed to believe the theory about the 19 Arabs? There's a book about it and everything...
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ComandanteChe Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Agreed, time to dismiss the official conspiracy theory re: 9/11. nt
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. I would refrain from using this expression...
"What to do to move forward?" if I were you as it is the favorite red herring used by the bush cabal and it's supporters. When I see "move forward" in conjunction with advice to give up pursuing something it raises my skepticism as to the genuineness of the advice being given.
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jerryme1 Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Again, "red herrings" and "cabals." It's almost impossible to
stimulate real debate.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. LOL!
The irony of your post is quite delicious!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. Ha! n/t
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sheerjoy Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. I never considered them theories. n/t
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. No. n/t
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