your driveway is not "your" driveway?

[wildbilln864]

"...

American flag

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers California and eight other Western states, just made what might be the scariest ruling of the year. You know who else thinks so? The dissenting judge, a conservative, no less, who himself made the connection to Orwell's 1984. This is bad, bad news, and the sooner it gets overturned the safer we should all feel.

The story dates back to 2007, when the Drug Enforcement Administration began monitoring one Juan Pineda-Moreno, an Oregonian whom the DEA suspected of maintaining a marijuana grow operation. DEA agents, in the words of Time magazine, "snuck onto his property in the middle of the night" and planted a GPS tracking device on the underside of his Jeep, which was parked in his driveway at the time. "
more here...
:hi:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. With the patriot act your home is not your home either. n/t

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

4. And when they take you away and don't charge you with a crime.

Its called the patriot act.

[customerserviceguy]

5. Before the patriot act

it was the drug asset forfeiture laws that were the tyranny.

[Poll_Blind]

2. I believe this ruling will be struck down because the implications it has for....

...all private property (including corporately-owned private property) would, without exaggerating, change the very nature of property ownership.

I just can't see it sticking. It's bizarre that they would even go along with this.

PB

[tech9413]

9. I hope you're right

I might be a nobody out in the stix who doesn't live a high profile lifestyle, but I could imagine myself being targeted as a dissident. The people who will win this battle are those with corporate backing trying to protect their financial interests.

[Toots]

14. They pretty much already decided this years ago with their

"No Knock Policy".. The court ruled they could enter your property without warrant if they had probable cause or were in pursuit. It got named "No Knock Policy" because police could bust through your door without any notification of any sort including knocking.. Your driveway would be covered under that ruling I would think..

[Poll_Blind]

20. I think there's a difference because of the "probabable cause" or "pursuit" stipulations.

The ruling, if I recall correctly, said something along the lines of "Oh, it's a driveway. There's no fence there. Ya, that's not private property."

Here's the rub: If you apply that line of thinking to a suspected drug dealer no problems- at least most people aren't going to see what a slippery slope it is. However, once you apply the spirit of that ruling to anything else, especially commercially-owned properties (which are legally no different than regular private properties) then the public space begins to intrude pretty deeply into the private space. Really deeply in this case. I'm not sure exactly what their "test" was but it seemed to be something along the lines of "Well, can just anyone walk into the space without having to hop a fence or anything like that? Ok, that's not private."

Commercical properties like malls, for instance, heavily rely on the concept that you are in private property when you are inside one. This allows them to control (sometimes with an absolutely tyrannical hand) all normal and accepted forms of Free Speech, such as right to assemble or freedom of speech through written material, either handing it out or, say, on a t-shirt.

But if a cop can come onto your property without a warrant and place a GPS on your car then the implication there is that any easily-accessible space is, in fact, public space in some deeper sense. Does that mean that mall with open doors in the summer or whose doors are easily opened or propped open actually becomes a public space when a person can easily enter? Lots of little questions like this spring up, which means trouble outside of the very narrow case the court so sweepingly-approved.

PB

[MuseRider]

3. It is

1/4 mile long and we need new gravel. Who do we call?

[demodonkey]

7. Mine too. Really do need that gravel! nt

[Hepburn]

6. I had an asshole try and do this to me...

...not law enforcement, tho. And...I found the device and stuck it to the underside of an L.A. City Bus!

:rofl:

[Tsiyu]

10. Sweet!!!!

:)



How did you find it?

[Hepburn]

12. Someone opened his mouth about where I had been...

...and it dawned on me that the person should not have known that fact unless he had me followed or there was a tracking device on my car. I did not think I had been followed, so I had a PI pal sweep my car...and there in the wheelwell was the gizmo.

My later thought was that it should have been stuck on a garbage truck!

:evilgrin:

[Tsiyu]

16. or a chicken guts truck

Nasty!

:evilgrin:

[Hepburn]

19. LOL....

...I wish I had known you back then! :rofl:

[Tsiyu]

23. When you are stalked by idjits

you have plenty of time to think up ways to make them realize they picked the wrong person to bother.


Sounds like you did okay on your own...:D


;)

[w4rma]

8. Is that supposed to be a "liberal" court? What kind of "liberal" judges are being appointed?

A limousine liberal court?

[COLGATE4]

11. It's an old common law concept called "curtilage", which is

how the difference between private and public property was resolved. To be within the curtilage of a person's dwelling, i.e. the zone of private property there had to be some kind of clear delimitation, often a fence or similar. By that reasoning (which has been established jurisprudence in the US since we became a nation) the driveway would not be considered 'private' for the purposes of having to obtain a warrant.

[Uncle Joe]

13. A clear delineation should be who pays the property taxes, the public or the resident and

even if you're renting, your rent to the landlord goes toward the property taxes.

On top of that the automobile; itself is private property.

Requiring a fence for delineation purposes violates the 14th Amendment as some residences aren't allowed to have fences, not to mention putting up a fence requires an economic cost.

[WinkyDink]

22. I'd bet quite a bit it is "private" when it comes to a neighbor's trespassing.

Ths ruling is typical RW rabbit-hole logic.

[LWolf]

15. A good reason to start closing the gate at the end of my driveway. nt

[Capitalocracy]

17. Oh, it IS your driveway

If you live in a gated community.

$$

[kenny blankenship]

18. And with waterboarding and sleep deprivation & other psych-torture techniques

your body is not your body, and your mind is not your mind.

Keep scoffing doubters. After all, if you're 100% compliant and obedient you'll have nothing to fear, right?

[WinkyDink]

21. Meanwhile, the wealthy behind gates are not so treated. So--why do I have to pay for upkeep?