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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 05:19 PM
Original message
France: Really Leaning Right?
From: The Week; 5/11/2007

The French have moved to the rightor so we hear. Their election this week of the fiscal-reform candidate, Nicolas Sarkozy, over Socialist Sgolne Royal is being portrayed as an embrace of conservatism and a rejection of the welfare state. Sarkozys own rhetoric bolsters that view, as he colors his speeches with toughly worded appeals to a new work ethic and respect for authority. He even calls himself an Amricain, a French term used these days almost as a synonym for fascist. But Frances new president is no neocon. In fact, hes not a conservative in the American sense at all. Hes merely more conservative than most previous French leaders. The political yardstick marked left, center, and right covers a different section of the spectrum on either side of the Atlantic.

In the Gallic context, a right-winger doesnt resemble anything close to a Ronald Reagan. Hes more like a Bill Clinton or a Tony Blairtempering a respect for market economics with a strong commitment to social services. Sarkozys version of tax reform, for example, envisions a cut in the top income tax rate from 60 percent all the way down to 50 percentstill among the highest in Europe.

((rest of the article @ link below :))

http://www.theweekmagazine.com/editor/letter.aspx?Artic...
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demoleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not Reagan but a step back anyway
Edited on Thu May-17-07 06:07 PM by demoleft
I don't know what Clinton and Blair were capable of.

I heard Bayrou - the centrist, now leader of the Democratic Movement in France - say that Sarko was dangerously close to big media companies - too close for a President, at least. A danger for democracy in that country.

Maybe he's not. We'll see. But have a look at the link below: I don't know if the "censorship case" is true but if it is, is simply absurd!
And, anyway, nothing Blair or Clinton could do without - I suppose - provoking serious reactions.

No reaction in France. Perhaps that's why Bayrou and Royal were so fearful for French democracy!

For Sarko and wife case, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... and http://www.rue89.com/2007/05/13/cecilia_sarkozy_na_pas_...

For information, internet and media in general http://journals.democraticunderground.com/demoleft/2

ciao!
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. People don't realize...
that the European 'Right Wing' is somewhere to the left of Centrist Democrats.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. France used ES&S iVotronic Voting Machines This Election. Nuff Said n/t
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. And how
US style election rigging seems to be sweeping the planet with notable exceptions (Venezuela being one) and cementing the NWO. It's obvious. Two corporate funded candidates which noone really likes or trusts and electronic voting equipment designed to thrawrt the will of the people.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Lots of rioting in post-election France not being reported here
Saw it on Robt Parry's blog

There's video there too

Consortiumnews.com/blog
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ISUGRADIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. only for 4% of the voters might have voted via machine
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. I haven't seen anything
that makes me dislike Nic Sarkozy yet. Give the man his shot.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. A French guy I know said Sarcozy would be considered a Democrat
and progressive here in the US.

So you have to put it in context.

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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. I know this won't be a popular opinion here
but I think that Sarkozy would be good for France. France's economy hasn't been stellar, and socialists programs become ineffective when they don't work with the free markets. Hopefully Sarkozy will be able to straighten out some of the problems in France.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Nothing wrong with that, I pretty much lean towards the socialists
Edited on Thu May-17-07 08:36 PM by EV_Ares
program and just joined the socialist group here However, as you say, maybe in France the change might be a good thing. Sometimes change does that as long as it is not as radical as our government is here but it sounds like he is not like that.
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I don't have a problem with socialists programs but
sometimes they can cause unintended consequences that create other problems that aren't addressed. I just think that there needs to be a balance so that safety nets and the free market can work together for the benefit of all.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. I agree with you. I like to pull out the best of both if you can. I don't
think our capitalistic system is working all that great or fairly for all concerned and also realize there is no perfect system. However, there are a lot of socialist programs that can benefit those who need the help and help move them into a better life instead of just leaving them out there with no safety net.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Clinton? "strong commitment to social services."?????????
You don't remember Clinton was the one who cut welfare?????

Along with many other cuts?????

Those who died because of it...oh yeah, they *can't* remember.....not ever again. :cry:
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. How many has Clinton MURDERED?
HOW MANY?!

o god, how many...
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-19-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Too bad deaths of poor folk don't matter enough to you to avoid the
sarcasm.

Too hell with it.

If you want to know... watch "Day's Work, Day's Pay".

Otherwise, keep on being sarcastic about poor folk.

What shit.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Last time I checked, the outgoing Prez (Chirac) was from the SAME party.
They treat a party retaining the office it already had as some kind of revolution.

Let's see them do that if, say, another Socialist succeeds Zapatero in Spain.
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La_Fourmi_Rouge Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sarkozy is more of the same ol', same ol'.
One strike against Sarkozy is his blatant demonization of immigrants, including the millions of 2nd generation LEGAL immigrants from former colonies in N. Africa. These young folks are French Citizens, educated in French public schools, who have been marginalized by poverty, racism, and lack of opportunities for advancement. It is a fact that it is much harder to find a job if your name is Fatiha Koulal or some other Arabic-sounding name, even if you are holding a masters in finance. Sarko called these people "scum" or "dregs". Sarko played on the xenophobia of the older generations to win his victory. He is a divisive character,and has instantly become the most hated French leader since Marshal Petain.

The vote broke down into rich v. poor, older, established middle-class voters against the young, who only want a chance at middle-class status. Most media in the US, including most left-of-the-dial commentators make the mistake of calling the rioting youth of September 2005 "Muslim". This is simply not the case. Many are indeed descended from North African countries like Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco, but the religion of the young in france is Hip-Hop, Rap, Raggae and World Music.

Strike two on Sarko is the fact that he is just another member of the irresponsible elite class in France that believes they can tell the public what is good for them, and do not spend nearly enough time, energy, or political capital to form consensus for change. They are well and truly insulated from the "street", don't speak that language, and do not really care about all those lives wasted in the grimy banlieus of Paris, the slums of Marseilles, or the mean suburbs of Lyon. They Just. Don't. Care. Proof of this is found in the rejection in May 2005 of the EU Constitution. The elite are out of touch and prefer to remain that way.

I am not calling strike three... yet. But Sarko, by his blatant hypocrisy as the son of an immigrant himself, has a long way to convince the youth - the future of la Republique - that he gives a flying rooster about them.
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