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DetlefK Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 04:58 AM
Original message
Question about 1st Amendment, Fox, Lying
Would my suggestion violate the 1st Amendment? Does it sound too much like denunciation?

I'm thinking about sanctions for TV- and print-outlets for lying.
How about: If a TV-channel or a newspaper gets caught with more than 100 factual inaccuracies per year, they earn the glory of unwelcome publicity and maybe a fine. (Maybe they could lose their seat in the WH briefing room... :D)
a) A factual inaccuracy is a statement negating data, available in publicly accessible records at that time.
b) Every instance counts. One instance is 1 repeated claim per host, program and day or 1 repeated claim per guest, program and day.
c) It doesn't count if they issue two corrections within 48 hours. The corrections must be no shorter than 5 minutes each and published during the same time of the day.

So, let's say Glenn Beck says during his program over and over again "Biden is secretly black.". -> Fox would take the hit for his dabbling.
And you wouldn't need much government personnel sweeping the channels: They would just need to check and add up clues they get handed in by private citizens.



They would still be free to say: "There are rumors on the internet, that Barack Obama eats babies. We are not calling him a baby-eater, we are just covering the rumors."
But if someone actively says it on their channel and they don't call him out -> busted.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. hmm ... so if a "DUer" (troll/Repub/Conservative) posted a bunch of lies on our site
about Republicans (not necessarily pants-on-fire ones) ... does that mean DU would take the hit?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. DU isn't licensed and regulated by the FCC.
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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Neither is Fox News
They don't broadcast over the airwaves.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. Fox has already gone to court, fought for and won their right to lie.
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 05:34 AM by ET Awful
A Florida Appellate court ruled on that several years ago.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Almost short enough for a bumper sticker.
Fox won right to Lie in Court.

Hey, that's the way Fox does it.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. Such rules would be a nightmare.
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 06:35 AM by Jim__
Any claim made on any news show woould be called a lie. News shows would have to spend all their time defending what they've said. The present system sucks; but I think it works better than the proposed one would.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. yes of course it would violate the 1st amendment. nt
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angry citizen Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. First amendment
I think the real problem is the fact that other news agencies still treat Fox News as a news organization instead of a political group with an agenda. President Obama called it correctly, that fox News is not a news organization, but the main-stream media came to fox's defense.
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Thornleylv Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. Higher ground
I think most journalist hold themselves to a much higher standard
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The_Commonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. Every single news article...
...in every single publication contains some kind of error.

Have you ever seen a news story that you were involved in or knew about firsthand? Have you ever been quoted in a news story? Every single news story gets something wrong.

What you suggest would be a nightmare!
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Blue Meany Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. I think there is a basis for regulating broadcast media in
a way that you can't regulate print media: the public owns the airways and there are a limited number of available stations, so regulation may be required to allow all views to be represented. That was the rationale for the Fairness Doctrine. A somewhat weaker argument could be made for the internet, as long as the govt. owns and maintains the internet backbone.
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. Ridiculous idea
People would only be happy if the govt defined and controlled content according to their own personal views, and personal views are NOT facts which should be used to determine whether something is a lie or not.

And what about opinion shows? President Bush could have used the Goddess Maddow and uberbore, and fined MSNBC out of existence just as easy as President Obama could use Hannity or Beck to get rid of FOX.
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Thornleylv Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. 0ne Million
One million Dollars makes FOX just a little diferent.
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. No it doesn't
politics is all that makes them "a little different" and that is what makes all this censor talk scary as hell. What comes around goes around and I would hate it if I heard Rachael was punished for speaking her opinion.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. The FCC has a policy against distortion in news.
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 08:58 AM by OnyxCollie
Unfortunately, it's the "policy" part that makes it ineffective.

http://www.foxbghsuit.com/2D01-529.pdf
NEW WORLD COMMUNICATIONS OF TAMPA, INC., d/b/a WTVT-TV V. JANE AKRE

While WTVT has raised a number of challenges to the judgment obtained
by Akre, we need not address each challenge because we find as a threshold matter
that Akre failed to state a claim under the whistle-blower's statute. The portion of the
whistle-blower's statute pertinent to this appeal prohibits retaliation against employees
who have “isclosed, or threatened to disclose,” employer conduct that “is in violation
of” a law, rule, or regulation. § 448.102(1)(3). The statute defines a “law, rule or
regulation” as “includ any statute or . . . any rule or regulation adopted pursuant to
any federal, state, or local statute or ordinance applicable to the employer and
pertaining to the business.” § 448.101(4), Fla. Stat. (1997). We agree with WTVT that
the FCC’s policy against the intentional falsification of the news – which the FCC has
called its “news distortion policy” – does not qualify as the required “law, rule, or
regulation” under section 448.102.

Akre argues that the FCC’s policy is a rule as defined by section
120.52(15), Florida Statutes (1997), which provides:

“Rule” means each agency statement of general applicability
that implements, interprets, or prescribes law or policy or
describes the procedure or practice requirements of an
agency and includes any form which imposes any
requirement or solicits any information not specifically
required by statute or by an existing rule.

Even if we agreed with Akre that the FCC’s news distortion policy was a “rule” as
defined by section 120.52(15), her argument overlooks the fact that the whistle-blower's
statute specifically limits the definition of “rule” to an “adopted” rule. § 448.101(4). “This
limitation to ‘adopted’ material only appears deliberate, and well serves the public by
hinging civil liability upon matters of which due notice, actual or imputed, has been
conveyed.” Forrester v. John B. Phipps, Inc., 643 So. 2d 1109 (Fla. 1st DCA 1994).

Because the FCC’s news distortion policy is not a “law, rule, or regulation”
under section 448.102, Akre has failed to state a claim under the whistle-blower's
statute. Accordingly, we reverse the judgment in her favor and remand for entry of a
judgment in favor of WTVT.

Reversed and remanded.


If you want to have something done about lies in the news, go after the foundations that provide the content.

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html
Exemption Requirements - Section 501(c)(3) Organizations

To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.

The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.

Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues.


This isn't easy, however. First, you would have to get a congressman's attention, then the congressman would have to contact the GAO, the GAO would have to investigate, then the GAO would have to contact the IRS to investigate. Ultimately, the IRS would have to determine if the message is image-based advertising (tax-deductible) or if it's issue-based advertising (taxable) and the IRS isn't really suited for that.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. Read the Basic Law of the Republic of Germany.
Article 5

(1) Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in
speech, writing, and pictures and to inform himself without hindrance from generally
accessible sources.
Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts
and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship.
(2) These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the
protection of young persons, and in the right to personal honor.
(3) Art and scholarship, research, and teaching shall be free. The freedom of teaching shall
not release any person from allegiance to the constitution.

That little bold-faced part protects the formation of opinion of the recipient of the message.
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