Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Black nurse leaves white patient lying on floor; patient had requested "No black CNAs"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:47 AM
Original message
Black nurse leaves white patient lying on floor; patient had requested "No black CNAs"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100823/ap_on_he_me/us_pati...

INDIANAPOLIS Certified nursing assistant Brenda Chaney was on duty in an Indiana nursing home one day when she discovered a patient lying on the floor, unable to stand.

But Chaney couldn't help the woman up. She had to search for a white aide because the woman had left instructions that she did not want any black caregivers. And the nursing home insisted it was legally bound to honor the request.

The episode, which led to a recent federal court ruling that Chaney's civil rights had been violated, has brought to light a little known consequence of the patients' rights movement that swept the nation's health care system over the last two decades.

Documents in Chaney's lawsuit, filed in 2008, say her daily assignment sheet at Plainfield Healthcare Center always included the reminder that one patient in her unit "Prefers No Black CNAs."

-----------

I'm about 10% sympathetic for the patient, 90% thinking she got exactly what she asked for.

Regardless, they need to outlaw the ability to specify such preferences.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. I have 0 sympathy for the patient
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 09:50 AM by ixion
and believe the lawsuit is frivolous on the grounds that the patient specifically asked to be treated this way.

It's called: "Be careful what you wish for."

And the headline should really be: "Patient gets what they asked for."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The lawsuit was filed by the nurse.
Such provisions should be illegal.

And I agree that 0% sympathy for the patient is appropriate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I agree. Thanks for the clarification, I should have read it more carefully /nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. my bad...
got the characters confused. d'oh!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Actually the lawsuit is the Nursing Assistant's (not related to this specific incident)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
146. my sentiments exactly. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
213. I tend to agree
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. I am I bad person if I am glad that the bigot had to lay on the floor?
Is it wrong to wish that Brenda Chaney stopped for a coffee break before finding a white aide?

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
55. No. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
140. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #140
211. Let the executions begin!
Would raping children be as bad as being a racist?

How about murder?

Is being ignorant and uneducated, and possibly senile, THE worst crime on the planet?

Situation reversed: Black patient on the floor, does not want a white person to help! From what I have seen and heard, yes, that is a realistic scenario!

Do THEY deserve to die as well? After all, they think "a person is unequal due to race, gender, or sexual orientation"!

Does being a member of an oppressed class give them an out? Only members of the most powerful class are subject to death for being stupid?

People of ALL races, ethnicities, religions, etc. are homophobes!

Which ones should die? What is the exact criteria?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #211
234. what if I, in my demented state didn't want anyone wearing a white shirt helping me?
would that be reasonable to comply with?

poor demented old lady...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #234
240. Don't like white shirted people?
You must be a brownshirt! As in Nazi! Yeah, THAT'S how we connect the dots!

Sorry, Mimitabby! You're toast!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
200. If you're a bad person, I'm one too.
The bigot got what she requested. I hope she enjoyed her stint on the floor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
243. Not at all wrong to wish that.
But hopefully Brenda Chaney is a responsible, ethical professional and did her job to the best of her ability despite the restrictions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. I am 0% sympathetic for the patient. The CNA did not ignore the patient, she went
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 09:54 AM by still_one
and got a white CNA, no civil rights were violated

This is the media trying to promote racism by "implying" that a white person's "civil rights" was violated by an African American. It didn't happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brendan120678 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. The nurse is the one making the claim...not the patient (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I messed up thanks /nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm 0% sympathetic for the patient
I've reached my limit of people thinking they can run the world with their personal bigotries. If the facility is required to honor her ridiculous demands she deserves what she gets. They have no obligation to have a white person standing around as her personal servant so she never fear being tainted by anybody with dark skin. She could always get a private duty nurse if she wants to be that damn picky.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
245. My question is WTF the nursing home was thinking?
Unbelievable that a decent administrator would put up with that. By reading in between the lines I infer that the administration of that facility lacks anything remotely resembling spinal material.

Pity that people like that get positions of responsibility and authority.

This could have been taken care of before it happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. 0 sympathy for the patient here - her ignorance hurt her, as it should.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. Jesus Christ. What the hell?
I....uh...what?

PB
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
11. That's what the bigot gets. Good. I hope it was really uncomfortable on the cold hard floor too.
I have no sympathy for the patient at all. None whatsoever. Fuck her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. The nursing home should not have agreed to a condition they couldn't comply with. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. The nursing home shouldn't have agreed to the condition, period.
Forget ability to comply - willingness to comply alone gives the CNA a perfectly valid complaint against the employer.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I agree with this.
I don't think that customers should be able to dictate to the organization that they want only white/black/male/female caregivers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. with certain exceptions
and I'm pretty much thinking only legal NV brothels, here...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crystal Clarity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
56. The article did say that gender preferences are ok
for patient privacy reasons, but that racial preferences go too far. I agree. From the article...

{Courts have held that patients can refuse to be treated by a caregiver of the opposite sex, citing privacy issues. But the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, ruling in Chaney's case last month, said applying that accommodation to race goes too far.

"The privacy interest that is offended when one undresses in front of a doctor or nurse of the opposite sex does not apply to race," the ruling said.}
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. The home did comply with the condition - this patient has nothing to do with the suit
Although the article isn't clearly written, it sounds as though the nurse sued the home for violating her (the CNAs) rights when it compelled her to follow the racial restriction. The court is ordering the home to stop honoring race-based demands from patients.

Prior to the case, the home believed that patients' desires were paramount, and failed to understand that some of those requests were at odds with the rights of nursing staff. Now they know...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Yes, i don't see how that is allowed under Federal and State law
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. It isn't. Hence the nursing assistant has a great case for discrimination.
Patients or their families don't get to specify the race of their caregivers. I can't believe they wrote that on the chart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #36
47. From the discussion in the article, I can understand how the home thought they
were required to follow such requests. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they were so fixated on the needs of the patients ('they're sick, old, dying - lets do whatever it takes to make them comfortable, however much we dislike it' is the mindset I imagine) that they lost sight of the larger picture.

Now that the court has made it crystal clear, of course, it will be much more problematic if they persist in enforcing those requirements...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. No way they can be excused that easily. This has been law since 1964.
They are a major employer. They have lawyers that are supposed to know what the law is. They get no benefit of the doubt in a situation this blatant. Patient rights do not mean the right to ask for something which is illegal and a hospital or nursing home administration has to know that - or should know that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #36
58. I know -- I hope she wins
She should.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
104. I think she already did
"The episode, which led to a recent federal court ruling that Chaney's civil rights had been violated, has brought to light a little known consequence of the patients' rights movement that swept the nation's health care system over the last two decades."

(snip)

"Courts have held that patients can refuse to be treated by a caregiver of the opposite sex, citing privacy issues. But the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, ruling in Chaney's case last month, said applying that accommodation to race goes too far. "
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
72. Generally, I suspect that the "condition" is probably better for everybody.
I'm reminded of a situation, about 20 years ago, where my mothers hispanic roomate had to deal with a horrendously racist patient. He'd scream at her when she went into the room, calling her a "dirty wetback", a "beaner", and just about every other racist name in the book. There were times that she'd have to leave work early, in tears, because the guy was such an ass.

She requested, many times, that she not have to deal with him. Her boss refused her requests and made her deal with him anyway. He once told her (not a line that can be easily forgotten), "If we all have to deal with the assholes who fling real shit, you can deal with assholes that fling verbal shit." She eventually quit her job over it.

When a blatantly racist patient refuses to deal with a caregiver because of their color, gender, religion, or whatever, they're probably IMPROVING the situation of that particular minority. What's worse? Having a racist refuse to let you treat them? Or having to put up with a racists denigrating insults every day? Muzzling patients usually isn't an option.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. god works in mysterious ways. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
59. Doesn't She :-)
And she has a very, very dry sense of humor, obviously. (Mona-Lisa-smile emoticon here)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
278. god created a racist piece of shit so that this CNA
had to experience bigotry and prejudice? Yep, that's pretty mysterious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
14. She could have been the better person and helped her up.
Then, if she got fired or sued, she would have a much easier lawsuit to prove discrimination. Also, she could have shown the woman that even though she's a piece of sh*t a black person is still willing to help her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. Why?
The people that work in that industry get paid little, work long hours, are prone to work-related injury, and aren't treated with respect. Our grandma is in an assisted living facility. I am amazed by the sheer amount of work involved in getting Grandma up and dressed for the day, for instance.

She had every right to leave that patient lying on the floor.

>Also, she could have shown the woman that even though she's a piece of sh*t a black person is still willing to help her.<

There's a point where human kindness and compassion is wasted. Let the bigot's family handle it.

Truthfully, I can't believe she was allowed to remain in the facility in the first place after making such a request. Our family had to work to get Grandma into the facility she's in; the staff works hard to make sure their patients are well-cared-for and treated with kindness and dignity. I wonder what the admittance criteria is for this particular facility.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. Her job is to help the people who live there regardless of their views.
It is up to her employer to decide whether or not they want to deal with someone's racist viewpoints and then according to the law they must do so without discriminating against their employees.

The person at fault here is the nursing home for accepting the patient request. The nurse still should have done her job and helped the lady up, and then handled the fallout from there. She would come out of it looking like a hero, now she comes out of it just looking spiteful and bitter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. Not if she's being abused
Why should she be compelled to help any patient who's clearly stated they don't want her assistance?

"Spiteful and bitter"? How is she "spiteful and bitter" if she is following the patient's stated wishes?

Again, there's a point where compassion is wasted. This is one of those times. It's 2010, NOT 1950, and if the patient in question was so concerned she would have to endure being assisted by someone of another race, the patient is the one at fault. The employee shouldn't have to open herself up to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #46
57. Was the nurse being abused by the patient?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #57
128. What would you call institutionally approved racism?
Wouldn't that be considered abuse - forced to work with a person you knew hated you, IN WRITING, because of the color of your skin?

Stop blaming the victim. The woman lying on the floor had nobody to blame but herself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #42
62. She's looking pretty good compared to say...
what I would have done :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #42
70. Wow. Just wow.
And more I can't say or I'll be breaking DU rules.

:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
129. If she'd tried to help the lady
And there had been an incident (the lady fought and ended up injured, or merely wanted to be a twit and lodged a lawsuit because her wishes had been ignored), the nurse and the facility would be at fault. The nurse did nothing wrong. She didn't ignore the patient or purposely delay care, she merely went to get a white CNA in accordance with the patient's wishes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
34. and she could have been seriously injured in the process, if the patient went ballistic.
the woman did the right thing in going for a white cna, and sorry you cannot see that. the bigot wasn't going to see anything helpful in ms. chaney helping her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
39. You think the woman is obligated to subject herself to injury to prove some point to
a fucking bigot?

What an idiotic notion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
100. What makes you all think she was "subjecting herself to injury"???
And if she did, the nurse would call the police, the patient would go to jail and the nurse would have a million $$$ lawsuit on her hands. That's standard protocol.

She just needs to do her job, her company should not have a policy of writing racist remarks in patient notes, and patients have to follow the laws of the country and follow the rules of the nursing home. That's how society works, not "you don't like me so I don't like you".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #100
116. Nothing says compassion like
Sending a sick old lady to jail! And God knows we don't have nearly enough mentally ill people in jail!

So you would have an injured nurse AND a PR nightmare! But it is OTHER people suffering to prove a point, so that's OK!

The old lady is a bigoted moron, possibly senile, but she is still a human being! I'd be careful from a karma standpoint about enumerating all the bad things that should happen to her!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #100
141. Because when people flail they can hurt you. Hence her attempting to lift the
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 07:56 PM by Raineyb
bigot off the floor would subject the woman to injury.

And she did do her fucking job in case you hadn't bothered to read the fucking article, she got a white CNA to lift the nasty old bigot off the god-damned floor. The victim in this story in case you haven't figured it out is the nurse no the stupid bigot who got exactly what she asked for, not to be touched by a black woman.

Like I said, an idiotic notion. Your argument hasn't become less stupid with this explanation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #100
168. Not that simple....
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 09:51 PM by Jeff In Milwaukee
I work for a healthcare provider, and we had a similar situation where a mentally-disturbed patient demanded only caucasian nurses. If we had ignored her wishes, and the woman woke up suddenly to find a Hispanic of African American caregiver in her room, she could have gone ballistic and hurt herself or one of our nurses.

We're not going to risk the safety of our patients or our nursing staff. Period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #100
227. Have you ever tried to lift, transport or otherwise assist a combative person?
It's not easy, and it's dangerous for all involved. If a black CNA tried to assist a woman who clearly didn't want black people assisting her, chances are good the patient would resist or even become combative and it would increase the risk of injury both to the CNA and the patient.

Furthermore, caregivers assume a great deal of risk just taking their jobs. The likelihood of the CNA being able to sue the patient regardless of what injury the woman might inflict on her are minimal or nonexistent because as a caregiver the possibility of getting injured by working with incapacitated, confused or combative patients is part of the job. I've been hit, slapped, pinched, bitten, kicked, head butted, and more. Not only did I never consider suing, but I would not have been able to because dealing with those things was part of my job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
111. "could have been the better person"? -- she *is* the better person
You have a person being a bigot on the one hand and a person who has devoted her life to help elderly people in the last stages of their lives on the other. Of course, it's true that there have been bad people over the years who have worked in nursing homes, but we already know that the patient is being a bigot. The CNA, however, sued to guarantee that the next time a bigot needed help, she would be able to help the bigot without fear of being fired or other reprisals from her employer. That's a pretty good thing. And since this may well set a precedent followed elsewhere in the nation, her actions also ensured that other caregivers elsewhere with racist patients will be able to help those patients without fear of reprisals from their employers. Way to go Brenda Chaney! :applause:

It's always disappointing--but, alas, rarely surprising--to see that whenever any story about discrimination appears on DU, there will always be posters ready to simply criticize the victim.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
16. 0% sympathy for the patient
Only any idiot would make request like that, but it was her request and the nurse only followed the patients wishes. If one is stupid enough to be racist even when it comes to health, then there isn't much that can be said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
18. I'm saving most of my outrage for the employer that explicitly condoned discrimination.
x(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. "prefer" and "demand" seem to be two different concepts
This a very bizarre story. It seems unthinkable that an insurance company would insure the nursing home against accidents and malpractice if residents can pick and choose who will attend to them in cases of emergency. Very strange.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. Archie Bunker was afraid of that transfusion, too...
might make him a little black.

Even stupidity has its rights to some extent, though, and I don't know where to draw the line when you're dealing with some bigoted old bat in a nursing home.

Chaney sued? What were the grounds, besides being shamed and insulted?

(I just hope one day we won't be reading this sort of nonsense any more.)



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
22. Patient got exactly what she asked for and then filed suit?
Put her BACK on the floor and leave her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. The CNA filed the suit, not the patient... (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
27. Patient may have suffered from senile dementia
A person can be senile and say 'racist' things they wouldn't sincerely mean. I'd volunteered at a nursing home. Saw it a couple of times.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. I beg to differ
A person might say things they didn't want to say, but not things they don't mean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
41. Senile and Alzheimers patients say all sorts of nonsense
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 10:33 AM by Mimosa
Their synapses do not function. Most black nursing home staff have experiences a lot of N word stuff from both black and white patients. I'd heard it, seen it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
54. I had my MIL living with me for six months before she died...
she had dementia...plus she was on a whole cocktail of meds.

She also said some of the most bizarre things involving babies in the bed with her, going to football games during the night, thinking Mr Pip and I were "staff", and lots of other stuff.

When she got placed into the hospice program and all her usual meds were stopped, the strange behavior stopped too.

She was also prone to using the "n" word...being 93 years old and having mostly grown up in the South.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #54
63. Wow!
Wow...my grandmother was almost that old, also grew up in the south, but never uttered that word...even with meds and dementia. One never can tell...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #63
79. Nope...you just never know...
And she looked for all the world like a sweet little old lady.

She even attacked one of the nurses in the hospital, and also attacked her roommate.

Totally out of character for her...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #79
126. Grandmother...
You truly do have a good point. My great grandmother had family members locked in a bathroom while she stood outside the door with a knife. We're talking a really, tiny, woman WITH A KNIFE and an attitude.

Now, of course, at this point in her life, once she was placed in a nursing home, her wishes were carried out through her family members. She could have made some nutty statement about not wanting certain people to care for her AND NO ONE would have taken it seriously.

As much as I understand that we would like to be sympathetic to this old woman, we don't know that dementia was a problem WHEN SHE MADE THIS REQUEST. She could have very well been in her right and just bigoted mind.

I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of the nurse. I think I would have gone to find a white nurse. Then again, this isn't the field for everyone.

It's definitely not the field for me. I don't care how old or sick you get, I don't want to be mistreated by you. I'm not meant to be a nurse. Thankfully, the world is full of great people who have that calling. I know people who work in nursing homes. It's not an easy job.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #126
157. It does take a special kind of mentality...
Which was why my MIL spent a month in a nursing home after being here 2 1/2 months here. She got all crazy and nasty.

Well, what we didn't realize was that her meds, which she was getting regularly here (as opposed to when she was supposed to be taking them on her own at home) were poisoning her mind. The doctors tried to adjust the meds...she was still acting crazy. The night she attacked the nurse in the nursing home and the State Police took her to the hospital, we found out she had renal failure. Oh, and she also had an undiagnosed UTI, which is not uncommon in the elderly for them NOT to have any symptoms...not even a temperature.

When she finally ended up coming back here to die, I quickly learned not to argue with her no matter what she did or said.

It does take a LOT of self control to keep quiet.

But the ironic thing was that once she was off all her meds, she was back to her old sweet self again.

who knew?

:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #157
219. Scary as heck!!!
Especially when its the people you love!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #219
238. It really was...
The day MIL didn't know her own son, I cried for him.

He was more stoic. Or maybe hurt just as much inside but didn't want to show it.


I can't even imagine how I would feel if my own mom didn't know who I was... :(

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #238
250. I'm sure he was in agony!
The day I saw my grandmother in restraints, dropping F-bombs like a sailor stubbing his toe, ripped me apart inside!

I feel for your husband! Seeing someone you love gone from their body, replaced by a total stranger, is one of the saddest things a person can go through!

I hope and pray the maniacally self-righteous can soften their hearts before suffering such a fate! But I fear nothing less than tragic personal experience will ever lead them to universal love!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #54
97. I have seen the same things in some patients.My heart went out to their families
...who spent most of their time apologizing for their mom's statements...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #97
101. Yeah, we ended up sending flowers and an apology
to "Mom's" roommate.

I thought we were going to have to do the same the night the nursing home staff had to call the State Police on her because she was freaking out and calling herself "Jason" in a deep voice (I'm assuming the "Jason" from the horror movie "Halloween"). That was the same night she attacked one of the nurses.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #101
163. What was she like before she lost her mind?
What an ordeal for all of you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #163
187. She was the typical sweet old lady...
never said a mean word to anyone.

When she lost her senses, she became mean and nasty, then turned into a crying child, then didn't even know who her own son was. We never knew from day to day which "Mom" we would get. There were times when she would be all of those in the same day, going back and forth.

It's from watching her struggles with losing her mind...and knowing it...that I developed a lot of empathy for the elderly.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #187
193. I'm so sorry. It's so hard to watch a parent leave that way. As for this thread, I'm saddened...
... that so very many DUers really have no clue that that might have been the problem with the "bigot" they are condemning to lay on the floor in God-knows-what condition. Maybe she was bad all her life; maybe she screamed at children in Little Rock when they tried to integrate the schools; maybe she beat her own children, or maybe she was a shoplifter, a car thief, an embezzler. Or maybe she was another Mother Teresa before she lost her faculties. None of that matters when you are old and helpless. Someone should try to take care of you at the end.

Whatever went on with that CNA should be addressed for sure -- something went wrong with her working conditions, if nothing else, because she was placed in an impossible position.

My mom got paranoid in her last 2 years of life; she thought her best friend was stalking her. It was pretty bad, because she really took a lot of stuff out on me personally -- but it could have been worse.

Too many people here just have no clue -- and apparently no compassion because of that. Which is unbelievably sad.

Hekate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #193
220. I think the other thing people can't...or won't...understand is
that "bigotry" can often be a manifestation of fear.


For example, if a woman doesn't want a male nurse because she had been raped or abused by men in her past, people understand that. Nobody calls that sexist or bigoted.

But if someone had a really bad experience with a black person and has been similarly traumatized to the point where he or she doesn't want a black nurse, then that person IS called a bigot.

Anyway, I often wonder how many of those who don't give a rat's patootie about what happens to "bigots" also call themselves "Christians".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #220
226. People know. They just don't consider it an acceptable excuse.
You still don't fucking get it. BIGOTRY IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #41
61. exactly, I've seen and heard it as well.
You never know what may come out of the mouth of a resident with dementia. Fortunately, the largely minority staff where my father lives understand this and treats everyone well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #29
69. I have witnessed racism, political and social biases working in
a nursing home. For instant; An elderly woman referring to another woman of Russian descent as a 'dirty Communist', A Filapina woman referred to as that 'Jap', Black CNAs referred to as N word,a German floor nurse called a Nazi. Believe me some of those elderly still hold on to their prejuces.A previous poster mentioned a lack of respect for careworkers. I overheard a patient's daughter declare when asked 'where do these people come from?'. The answer was: " They can't do anything else." My antennae really went up as I had careers as a dental assistant and long time bank employee as well as a housewife and mother. I chose to do caregiving when I reached a 'certain age' in the attempt to do something for the elderly. It was the most difficult job I ever had. I don't regret that but left after 11 years for retirement feeling that nursing homes are remiss in giving the elderly the best care they can provide for the amount of money provided them.
I just hope I can hold on long enough to steer clear of nursing homes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
190. You're very wrong, with regards to dementia
A person will very literally say utterly random things. we had one lady who walked into the kitchen facilities one evening and told us to watch out for the nun, the nun was killing people. We have other residents who scream at you in Norwegian, stuff from their childhood. The first thing we tell families who come for dementia counseling is very simply, don't take it personally. Their loved one truly does not have control over what they are doing or saying, entire personality shifts are common, and the family should work within the reality of their relative rather than constantly trying to correct them or taking offense at what happens.

It's hard. It's very hard. But that's the way it is. These people are not "faking it" it is not "all in their heads," and it is not an exposure of hteir "true personalityh." It's caused by the fact that their brain has holes or cysts or dead synapses or any number of other very real problems that make them behave in ways different than others would consider "normal" or "acceptable."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #190
194. My father in law thought the Cossacks were coming to get him. He didn't recognize his wife sometimes
The Cossacks were something right out of his childhood in Russian Poland in the 1890s.

Hekate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. That's where my 10% sympathy comes in.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Or had a stroke, or both.
Complying with this patient's preference also saved black staff members from having to deal with possible abuse day in and day out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. Lots of elderly dementia patients do and say all sorts of things
that they wouldn't have in their healthier years--they are not themselves anymore, lack the ability to reason or to remain socially appropriate. I have worked in nursing homes, people can't take it personally when patients act like this. Best to just accomodate them, if possible--especially if they are going to become agitated or abusive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
120. Bullshit. That's just a bigot who had control when they were young.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #120
135. you are totally incorrect. The Higher Brain functions are diminished or gone that leaves
the Basal Brain which simply throws out what it's been exposed to.

FACT- you might very well end up spouting racist shit when you're 90 too.

All it takes is brain damage or dementia and your personality will be gone and all that might be left is the muck society played in front of you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #135
137. So you are insulting the professional abilites of the entire staff ?
You are saying you know better than them without being there AND that they allowed a person's mental disabilities to determine care but you can see what they failed to see?


I'm glad i finally met you. You must be the best doctor on the planet. You should run for Senate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #135
244. Kitty Wampus is right.
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 10:38 AM by Mimosa
Thank goddess for the people on this topic who are trying to provide information.

I don't think any of us have enough information on this case to be making judgments. And as I'd posted when I volunteered in a nursing home I saw that very sweet old ladies may sometimes have some extremely irrational behaviours. Kitty Wampus, you explained it well.

In a few years I'll be 60. I recognise my own mentality is not as sharp as it was in my 30s and 40s. Fortunately I've learned even more understandng and compassion than I ever had before. I used to be compassionate but quicker to judge than I am now. Experiences with all sorts of people and situations, and experiencing one's own weaknesses makes me a better grownup than I was when i was younger. I'm also more liberal ;)


Can sombody tell me which drugs seem to destroy the brains functions? I think it was once common for nursing homes to sedate patients with 'Melaril.'
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
32. ZERO sympathy for the bigot on the floor--I doubt it did anything to cure her bigotry though
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
37. Welcome to Indiana ...
... alot of 1860 mentality around parts of this state .... :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Today Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
38. Patients rights are patient rights. If someone is ignorant enough to prefer
no care over being tended by a black or any other discriminating trait then so be it. He or she then deserves the right to lie on the floor and die. Hats off to Brenda Chaney, if it had been me, I think I would've probably "not noticed" the bigot on the floor needing help and gone about my day leaving her to be "found" by a white employee.

Zero sympathy for someone getting exactly what they requested. And unless Brenda was fired or refused employment because of this old bigot, no sympathy for her either. I truly believe a patient has the right to refuse treatment from whomever and for whatever reason they choose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #38
45. Nurses and nurses' aides get "fired" by patients and families all the time--
for good reasons and for no apparent reason at all (just didn't like him or her, for example). I agree with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
red red red Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
40. My sympathy for the nurse...
perhaps if something had happened if the assistant nurse would have tried to help, the woman may have sued her! Anyway, no sympathy for patient. I have a friend whose husband will not have a 'black' in his house - not even the TV repairman. I am told that he had to call to get his TV fixed and a black repairman came. He made him wait outside, called the company, and they sent a white repaiorman. When I found out about this, I lost all respect for him and will not go to his house.
:evilfrown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Evasporque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
43. If the nurse was a cop the old lady would be tasered
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 10:30 AM by Evasporque
Get up NOW!! GET UP! GET UP! ON YOUR FEET! THIS YOUR LAST WARNING!!! ON YOUR FEET!


BZZZZZZZAAAAPPPPPP!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
117. Shut down the home! Throw the other patients in the streets!
The lucky ones can go live with their children and drain every ounce of life out of them!

Win Win!

:sarcasm:

(May Providence bless and protect those who care for the fragile and unwanted!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
48. IF that aide had helped the woman despite her "no black CNA's" note,
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 10:39 AM by old mark
the aide could have lost her job. She would probably at least have been suspended.*
That old woman on the floor got just what she wanted, and she deserved every minute of it.

If we don't live in the stupidest nation on earth, we are surely in the top 5.

mark

* I was an AFSCME Steward in a healthcare environment - I have seen this happen. That aide would have risked her livlihood if she had helped the woman who had filed that preference under the patients rights act. She had NO CHOICE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #48
67. It might say "no Black CNAs" on paper but I'll bet the patient didn't say "Black"
The old bigot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mike r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
49. This might explain some teabaggers:
"Elderly people revert in dementia to the prejudices they grew up with"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #49
280. I guess that means when they get old they say what they really think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
50. I hope the hateful racist laid there for hours and hours and messes herself too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
118. Would you still say that
If the races were reversed?

Would it be OK for a white caregiver to let a black patient lay on the floor in order to make a statement against racism?

I am not defending the bigoted old lady! But nursing homes are in the business of at least comforting and protecting the sick, not acting as beacons of social justice! The rest of the world should have THAT job!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #118
138. I sure the hell would. If a black person was equally as racist and requested only
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 07:44 PM by xultar
black caregivers I'd hope they'd lay there too. They put themselves in the position to get left on the floor by limiting the staff that can help them.
THAT SHIT IS PLAIN STUPID.

Racism is stupid. You're talking to a black woman who has dated just about every race and religion on the planet. I am the UN of Love.

so don't go there. I ain't got time for no ignorant ass racist period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #138
281. The UN of Love!
That's the best thing I've read here in months!

Sometimes I just love the hell out of you, xultar!

:hug:

:rofl:

Awesome.

"I ain't got time for no ignorant ass racist period."

That just might be new sigline material.

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dem mba Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
52. let her lie on the floor
that's where that kind of bigotry belongs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #52
119. Please Please PLEASE!
Dear God, PLEASE tell me you don't work with fragile, physically or mentally ill people!

Please tell me you are a prison guard, so the people receiving your social "justice" have some likelihood of deserving it!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #119
143. Don't know why you're wasting your time making excuse for the old bigot.
She got exactly what she asked for and deserves. She gets no sympathy from me either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
53. This type of request is not uncommon
Where I work, it usually manifests itself in request for someone "english speaking"--ALL of our nurses speak English, some have an accent.

(We also get patients, almost always males, who make sexual comments or overtures or attempted sexual assault or simply masturbate in front of their nurses. We also deal with violent patients)

When a patient is overtly racist, calling names or making comments or becoming violent, (it happens more often than people realize) we try to protect our nurses and nursing assistants (we call the latter PCTs or patient care technicians)

The company is at fault for not having a plan in place to protect the worker and the patient. I've taken care of any number of unpleasant individuals, but they're human beings and I care for them because that's what I do. We don't want our nurses or PCT's forced to be exposed to this kind of racism, so we find white caregivers if we can, go in pairs if we can't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #53
64. I Am In A Similar
situation. Verbal abuse is common. I am white, black patients make racial comments to me all the time. Black staff hears the same from white patients. Blacks AND white patients are derogatory towards Asians. One Dr. who is Asian says she won't do anything for Patient X until he is "respectful" (his comments aren't racial). I say to that Dr., Grow the hell up. It's the job. Patient lying on the floor should be picked up unless she physically resists. Normally "I don't want any black/white/Asian/male/female people near me" stated by a patient is honored to the extent praticable. If you don't know how to not personalize nasty comments from disabled people you shouldn't be dealing with them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. Thanks for your comment. It's a shining light in a really dark thread
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #64
77. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
While i find the situation in the OP personally distasteful i can think of other less upsetting reasons to "prefer" one caregiver over another. The first thing that came to my mind is a person that i know who asks for only female caregivers. She has abuse in her past.

Sticky situations can ensue when you begin dealing with patient rights because not all patients are the same. It would seem that patient rights, like any rights, have the potential to be warped by some. That does not make the wisdom or validity of the right, as used by the majority, less legitimate.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #64
90. That's true, many are responding unlike themselves, but in this case
there is nothing explicit about the patients state of mind in the OP. Not all nursing homes residents have a form of dementia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #64
115. Thanks for this - there are very few of us here with your viewpoint it seems.
but I think it is the correct one. I'm horrified that other people on DU are posting things like, "I hope the hateful racist laid there for hours and hours and messes herself too". It's odd that these people share other of my same viewpoints (or they wouldn't be on DU I'm guessing).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #115
144. Thankfully. I'd hate to think there are a hell of a lot of people here who think
anyone should have to put up with abuse from some fucking bigot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #64
139. Enlightening.
Sounds like you are the adult there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #64
142. Well said
"If you don't know how to not personalize nasty comments from disabled people you shouldn't be dealing with them."

A very grownup response.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #64
150. it wasn't a random comment by the patient -- it was a daily note in her assignment sheet
from her employer that this patient didn't want black CNAs helping her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #64
162. Yup, good comment.
You're professional, that's how it's done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
60. What if they had a biracial CNA?
Could she have helped the bigot up halfway, at least? :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #60
65. Wow!
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
66. I'm 0% sympathetic for the patient.
If she only wants a 'certain kind' of help, that's the chance she takes. It's her own fault that her racist attitudes limit her options.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
121. WOW!!!!!
Reading the opinions of "Progressive" people towards the senile, sick and dying makes me sad and scared!

May the lessons of your life be more gentle than the lessons you wish on others!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #121
145. The opinion is being expressed toward a bigot. Infirmity is really no god damned excuse.
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 08:10 PM by Raineyb
I don't give a fuck what the hell is wrong with you, you have no right to abuse someone else. And considering that the woman got exactly WHAT SHE ASKED FOR what the hell do you expect the CNA to do? Risk her job and put herself at risk of injury trying to help some nasty fucking bigot who already said that she didn't want the woman's help? Are you for real?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #145
156. Then you better pray you never become senile and incontinent, never have a stroke...
... that changes your sweet disposition, never have a broken hip to go along with a form of dementia that destroys your higher inhibitions (i.e. the ones that prevent you from cussing out other people by calling them nasty fucking whateverit is that crosses your mind).

Hekate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #156
160. They put a No black CNA note in the woman's file. What the fuck would you have the CNA do?
Force herself on the bigot and risk losing her job as well as injury when the nasty bigot starts flailing because she doesn't want a "n-word" touching her, because let's face it that's what the woman probably requested. We're only using black because the other word is a slur.

And I am not stupid enough to demand that people of certain ethnic groups be kept away from me when I'm sick and I treat anyone who comes to my aid with respect because I'm not a nasty ass fucking bigot. Nor do I make excuses for them which apparently you are incapable of doing.

I have no problem admitting my antipathy for the bigot. Then again my antipathy isn't nearly as shameful as your disgusting excuse-making for said bigot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #160
167. I'm not talking about "a bigot." I'm talking about a frail elder lying on the floor, undiagnosed
The CNA probably did what she was supposed to do, which was go get someone else to deal with the broken hip or the stroke or the head injury or the seizure.

Nurses up and down the line (CNAs, RNs, all the hands-on people) have very, very hard jobs. My sympathies are with them, and they deserve better pay and better working conditions. But if you work in a nursing home, "head cases" are a given. If you cannot deal with the personality changes that can come with dementia or stroke or the like, then you should not be working in a nursing home.

Abuse and neglect are all too common because the staff are often overworked and the elderly are not necessarily in control of what they say or how they say it. Old men wag their weenies at the nurses and grab their boobs. The person they used to be would never have done that, but they aren't that person any more.

That unpleasant old lady could be your own mother some day. Or it could be you. And then I'd be pleading for compassion for her or you.

If you can't see the difference, then you have far bigger problems than anything I can ever say will help. And I am sorry.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #167
171. You are talking about a bigot. One who specifically requested no black CNA. The
bigot for whom you continue to make excuses got exactly what she requested. The actual victim in this story is the CNA who had to put up with a work environment that subjected her to the nonsense of having to hunt down a white CNA in order to avoid being fired.

As for my mother, who you don't fucking know, she was sick for years before she died and at her most difficult she STILL wasn't a nasty ass fucking bigot.

What part of this sentence are you having a problem comprehending? THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR BIGOTRY.

And if you don't understand that it's YOU who has the problem. And out of respect for the dead I'd appreciate it if you'd not mention her again. She deserves a hell of a lot more respect than to be compared to a nasty fucking bigot that you seem to insist on making excuses for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #171
195. I am more sorry for you than you will ever know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #195
197. I don't need your fucking sympathy. Save it for the bigot you've been defending.
At least I know I'm not so stupid as to turn down care from someone because of the color of their skin. Nor am I so stupid as to defend it. Defending people who will spit in your face when they are clearly wrong is just dumb.

The woman got exactly what she asked for. She has no grounds for complaint. She is not the victim in this story and the excuses for what her request put the CNA through is pathetic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #145
202. Who is defending the bigotry?
My problem is with people who want to see someone suffer!

Many of these same people who I suspect get very upset by the idea of putting a convicted MURDERER to death seem to take delight in the suffering and possible death of a woman whose only apparant crime is being a senile racist jackass!

The CNA did the right thing, and I sympathize with her plight!

The nursing home should not have taken an order like that, but their job is NOT to fix the ills of society. THEIR job is to give comfort and security to HUMAN BEINGS!

Even if those HUMAN BEINGS have disgusting opinions!

But, since in your world, racism deserves the death penalty, might I ask what other opinions should people prematurely die for?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #202
218. Oh, but see, putting a convicted murderer to death
would probably be perfectly fine if he or she were a "bigot".

In which case people would likely be hoping he or she suffered before death came.



Compassion is reserved for people whose politics or ideals are "acceptable".


And some people can't even hate the bigotry without also hating the person afflicted with it. I personally think extreme bigotry is a sickness. So it's about as useless to hate a "bigot" for being bigoted as it is to hate a psychotic for having a psychosis.

It's truly disturbing how many people want to make so many things moral issues. But I suppose there's a good explanation for it...it's easier to hate someone if it's all about morality and less about something a person might not be able to change on his or her own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #218
221. What the fuck does this have to do with the death penalty?
Is this an accusation of being pro-death penalty because it's a baseless one.

This is really quite the low point in your rationalization of bigotry.

You're pathetic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #221
224. FYI
Since you are unable to discuss anything in an adult manner, I'm placing you on my "ignore" list.

We've had negative interactions in the past, and I had done it before, but in the spirit of giving people a second chance, I occasionally take people off that list.

Sometimes people grow up and act like adults. Sometimes not.

If I want temper tantrums, I can go find a two year old child, who at least has a reason for them.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #224
230. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #230
253. Fairy is a common perjorative for gays
And others who don't fit the classic manly stereotype!

So now it -appears- you are bigoted towards me! By your standards, if you are suffering on the ground, I have not only the right, but the obligation, to walk away without seeking help for you! And according to some here, you no longer even have the right to breathe!

You fail!

BTW: No, I would not let you suffer if I can do anything to help, even if you detest me for being gay!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #253
255. Excuse you but the fairy is not a reference to gays it's a reference to the imaginary winged people.
I like alliteration.

Your being gay is of no interest to me whatsoever. It's not any of my fucking business.

Assumption as well as bigotry excusing fail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #121
204. Excuse me? She CHOSE to discriminate. She reaps what she sows.
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 03:00 AM by CakeGrrl
I have plenty of compassion for the senile, sick and dying.

But there's a certain level of shit I won't tolerate. If you don't want my help because you don't like the color of my skin, then so be it. I'm not going to bend over backwards to prove I'm the better person.

The CNA did what she should have done. She did not leave that person there out of willful spite. She got the woman some help because she was a professional complying with the patient's hateful wishes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #204
209. Thank you for admitting it!
"I'm not going to bend over backwards to prove I'm the better person."

OK, I get it now!

A) Only people who pass the purity test are entitled to be helped!
B) Being the better person is sooooo stupid when spiritual venom tastes so sweet!

"The CNA did what she should have done. She did not leave that person there out of willful spite. She got the woman some help because she was a professional complying with the patient's hateful wishes."

And I applaud that ideal! She did what she could for the lady!

PS Thanks for having the courage to admit you are no better than she is!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #209
222. The CNA is not obligated to risk injury to herself to help the old woman in order
to prove to the asinine that she's a better person. She WAS the better person she actually got someone to help the nasty bigot. She could have pretended not to see anything and left the woman on the floor until someone "acceptable" helped the woman.

Just to clear since you seem to be having trouble with comprehension, the CNA is not obligated to risk injury to herself, not to mention the nasty bigot for whom you seem to be so concerned as though SHE were the victim, trying to help someone who made it clear that she did not want the CNA's help, in order to prove a point to the fucking clueless and idiotic. (The woman got exactly what she wanted. Where's the victimization there?)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #222
248. Did I EVER say the CNA should force her help?
I have said ALL ALONG the CNA did the right thing in getting help, as opposed to escalating her reaction, risking injury to herself, her co-workers, other patients!

And I have said ALL ALONG that the patient's expressed racism is disgusting!

My ONLY point here is that the schadenfreude towards a sick old lady, regardless of how obnoxious she may be, is disturbing!

I am sorry! NONE of us gets to be universally loved! But to savour the suffering of others, even those who hate us for totally B.S. reasons, is beyond comprehension!

Anyhow, let's take a quick trip to the root here... how would YOU go about fighting against racism? What about homophobia?

Is there any room for trying to help people grow out of it? Or do we throw all the murderers and rapists and child molesters and spouse beaters and theives on the street so we can make room for Robert Redneck?

Is there an answer that doesn't involve EXPANDED misery?

May the chip on your shoulder be replaced by a warmth in your heart!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #204
267. You have no idea if she "chose" to discriminate. Senile people often don't chose anything
the part of their personality that chooses is gone.

What's left is a person who spouts stuff coming from the basal part of their brain which is where the muck lying at the bottom of our collective consciousness is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #121
259. She's a racist and specifically ordered no black aides.
She got what she asked for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
68. Nice inflammatory headline there.
I have read that article and no one else chose to describe it exactly the way you did.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #68
206. No kidding; the OP would have you believe the nurse just walked away
when in fact, she did as the regulations dictated.

I wonder WHY the thread was titled that way when the underlying article didn't set that tone at all?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FightingBobsghost Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
73. GOPer's tells us words have meaning and actions have consequences
Being a racist bitch means you get to stay on a cold tile floor.

Simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gvstn Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
74. I think the error occurred by extending gender preferences
to allowing racial preferences.

Some older women prefer female nurses/aides for bathing assistance. It is old fashioned but I think it can be reasonably accommodated in most circumstances.

However extending it to racial preferences is wrong in every way. I find it hard to believe the nursing home didn't realize they were crossing the line. Sometimes it is just easier to shut people up by doing what they ask. They were taking the easy way out. They have been set straight and I hope future nurses will not have to make a choice of following bad policy and their job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
75. I work in a nursing home
We are to provide 100% respect for our residents' various cultural differences. And yes, sad fact is those differences can also include the most ridiculous racism you've ever seen. Very often as dementia sets in, even a perfectly non-bigoted person can suddenly develop all kinds of attitudes towards people of other color.

And you do not want to risk the resident further injury by sending in a CNA who they do not want helping them. Even if the reason for their dislike is totally irrational, it will only cause further problems.

Myself, I am not a CNA. If I find a resident on the floor, I am supposed to leave them there. I tell them I am going for help, and I find a CNA or nurse to help, because I am not qualified to help; they need to be evaluated for fractures or other injuries, you can't just scoop them up.

This is a schadenfreude story; the resident got what she asked for. It's stupid, but that's how the system works. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #75
122. Thank you for working with the aged!!!
No one with human decency wants to see racism perpetuated!

But there is a time and a place for that fight! A patient on the floor in a nursing home is not that time and not that place!

Compassion is not just mercy towards those we like! Compassion is mercy towards those we revile!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #122
124. Actually, Phil and this is where you're in the wrong.
The law says that the wishes of the patient must be respected...the nursing home accepted the request meaning the CNA had reasonable grounds to think she would be fired for NOT leaving the patient on the floor. In fact, she likely would have been.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #124
125. I am not faulting the CNA
She was stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I have all the sympathy in the world for her!

I am not faulting the nursing home for trying to give comfort and care to a human being who unfortunately happens to have an F-ed up opinion towards others based on a bullshit reason!

I am finding fault with people who want to see a sick old person suffer because she (A) grew up in a time when that crap was common and /or (B) was senile and had no conscious control over her actions and statements!

I can't get a good feeling out of the suffering of others! And I am scared and saddened by people who can!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
76. Again, walking a mile in someone else's shoes...
A short story...

some years ago I worked with a woman who used to tell me about one of her neighbors, an elderly man who was in WWII and who hated Japanese people with a passion.

With the arrogance of youth, I judged this man and decided he was probably a very nasty person...

Until I learned that he was interred in a Japanese prison camp for a long time. Was horribly mistreated...tortured...forced death marches...the whole bit.


There was no way I could ever know the horrors he had suffered, and I did change my opinion. Wrong as it may seem to some, I thought he at least had a reason to hate a whole group of people.

None of us here who can ever know what this woman who didn't want a black CNA may have gone through in her life.

Yet people judge her...are glad, in spite of her age or physical/mental infirmities that she was "paid back" for her "bigotry".

How kind. How "liberal". How tolerant. How very Democratic to prejudge someone without knowing the circumstances of someone else's life.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. There's no reason to be "tolerant" towards bigotry
That World War 2 vet may have suffered greatly. But I guarantee you it wasn't Mr. Shigeru the mailman who did that shit to him.

He may have had cause for his bogotry. But cause and justification are different things, and there is no reason to ever be tolerant towards the intolerance of another.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. And here's where the gray area comes in...
because, according to this

http://www.answers.com/topic/bigotry

Intolerance of ANY group is still "bigotry".


So anyone here who has ever posted anything nasty about any other group of people is also guilty of bigotry.


Especially anybody who has prejudged all Republicans based on a finite group.


"A man must be both stupid and uncharitable who believes there is no virtue or truth but on his own side." - Joseph Addison


Because, as we all know, only Liberals have a hotline to virtue and truth.

:eyes:





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. +1000... all of that was complete bullshit!!! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. Thanks for the eloquent rebuttal and all....
Must have been a major mental drain to write out a whole line ending in the word "bullshit".

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #92
107. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. Actually, I'm defending an old woman
that you can't prove doesn't have some sort of mental or medical problem.


You assume that some elderly person you never met and know absolutely nothing about is a "white supremacist bigot".


I bow to your superior intellect!



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #110
132. I cannot prove she doesn't have a mental health problem but
it is pretty easy to prove she is a bigot. It is a pretty safe conclusion (not even an assumption as this point). You go ahead and spend your time defending bigots. It seems there may be better things to advocate for even on DU.

The elderly get no exemption on bigotry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #92
149. Quite frankly a single word in rebuttal would have sufficed. Bullshit covers it quite well
Defenses of bigotry really don't need, nor deserve a dissertation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #149
159. As I said above...
Anyone who holds intolerant views against a group of people, whether those people are racists, sexists, blacks, Republicans, Tea Baggers, cops, teachers, fat people, people who shop at WalMart, people who eat meat, and people named Ralph...they are also bigots.

People don't get to point the finger of bigotry by cherry-picking their chosen groups that are OK to hate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #159
161. Your tolerance of bigotry puts you in the same category of the bigots. Your bullshit
rationalization doesn't make it any less disgusting.

You make excuses for bigots. That's says all I need to know about you and the respect you get will be adjusted appropriately.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #161
169. It's too bad...
that some people have to find reasons to hate so many other people.


As far as "respect" goes, let me just say that there are some individuals whose respect I would rather not have.









Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #169
172. It's too bad you're a fucking apologist for bigotry. We could sure use less apologia that's for
damn sure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #172
178. And we could use a lot less hatred for others in this world
All I can say is that if I'm so loathsome, do yourself a favor and place me on your "ignore" list.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #178
180. Who's got time to waste hating the bigot? I can enjoy the schadenfreude
without hating anyone. YOU are the one who is excusing hate in this conversation.

I like to make sure I see the excuse makers for bigotry. I like to see my enemies coming and anyone who makes excuses for bigotry is definitely NOT an ally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #180
184. Excusing hate...
It's an old lady, for gods sake.

She's probably just a few years away from death. Nobody knows if she is or not, but people don't go into nursing homes because they're perfectly healthy.

But her attitude is the big bad enemy here.

Oooohhhh....scary!!!!


there are so many other worthwhile and powerful targets to spend one's hatred on.

But who gets the honor here? An elderly woman.

the bravery is overwhelming.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #184
186. I don't care how old she is! THERE IS NO FUCKING EXCUSE FOR BIGOTRY
What part of that sentence do you NOT understand?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #186
188. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #188
191. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #188
231. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. If you have to resort to being vulgar to someone...
then you've lost the argument.



Being intolerant of any other group DOES make one a "bigot", much as you would prefer not to admit it.

In that vein, then we're probably all bigots to one degree or another, albeit with respect to different groups with different opinions from our own.


We're all pretty much hypocrites too.


I think there's something refreshing about people who know it, admit it, and know they can probably do better.

Because they're not the Saints they think they are.


Have a nice day.

:)






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. Make vulgar arguments, get a vulgar reply
Your statement is that anti-racism is 100% as bad as racism, because the anti-racist is "bigoted" towards racists.

In other words, you said something stupid, and deserve more than I have given you in response.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. It wasn't my statement, dear...
because I didn't create it.

There it was in black and white.

ANYBODY who is intolerant toward ANY other group of people.


You don't like that, so you tell me I can go "fuck myself".

Thanks for being so adult about this.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. And again, it is pedantic horse shit
Context; it's not just for middle school grammar tests!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #103
109. Hah..yeah, OK...."context"
That sounds a lot like RW Fundies picking and choosing shit out of the Bible, rearranging, shining, gilding, and then presenting it as truth to justify their own prejudices.

It's only really "bigotry" when it involves intolerance toward people we think deserve it.

Like old people in nursing homes who may or may not have a brain disease, but people automatically assume the person is a "bigot" and laugh at her plight.


If it's their relative in that situation, it would probably be a rant against the staff person who, in spite of any orders not to do so, failed to pick the person up off the floor.

Context. Yep...I got it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #109
199. That was not your initial point
But that rather opposing bigotry is in and of itself bigoted and bad.

Again, you said something incredibly stupid, and deserved a smack to the chops for it.

Now, here's a question. Do you see me laughing at this woman or calling her names on this thread? Again, context; Maybe she is a screaming bigot. But given her situation, it's just as likely she's just a lady who's disease is causing these attitudes. I have nothing but sympathy for her, even if I disagree with whatever things she may end up saying.

No, in fact you find me explaining dementia to these folks.

Your horse is so high that I think you're suffering oxygen deprivation
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #76
89. Why would I possibly care what someone making that kind of request has gone through? (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. I guess you wouldn't care unless you were a compassionate human being.
My mistake...

:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Because coddling bigotry is so compassionate. Fuck that. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #94
105. "Coddling" it? Who said anything about coddling it?
How about, first of all, being big enough to try to understand that you don't know what someone else has suffered.

And actually CARING.

Especially when it's an old person spending time in a place where she is just waiting to die.


Yeah, I know...there's a huge reward in hating...not so much for having understanding or compassion.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #105
130. It seems like some people
Were just born to hate!

They just want to be one of the cool kids who hate the people it is "socially acceptable" to hate!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #130
148. LOL
We're the ones that are born to hate.

LOL yes. The cool kids like to hate people that hate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #105
151. You do every time you make excuses for it.
You don't fool anyone by the way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #151
154. I "don't fool anyone"?
Are you implying something? Don't be shy...spit it out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #154
164. Why state what's bloody obvious. Your defense of bigotry speaks for itself. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #164
175. And your hatred for an elderly woman who can't defend herself
speaks for ITself.

I guess we're even.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #175
183. Not at all. YOU are defending a bigot. I'm saying being elderly is no excuse
One of us is wrong. And it's not me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #76
113. "I don't want to be handled by black people"
A person that says that says ALL that is needed to know about itself.

Ditto for defenders thereof.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #76
147. THere is no god-damned reason to be "tolerant" of bigotry. So what exactly
are you trying to say? Some of us should put up with the slurs and indignities that bigots often spew as proof of our liberal cred? Do you have any idea how asinine that sounds?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #147
173. that's life, baby...
You don't wanna hear the slurs, go live in a cave someplace.

Because it's going to happen no matter what.


Hating the people who verbalize those slurs isn't going to make the problem go away.

You think being nasty to people is going to change their opinion? No. All it will do is MAYBE ensure that the person doesn't verbalize slurs in your presence. If that's all you're after, then great.

But don't fool yourself into thinking you've changed the world, or even their minds. You haven't changed shit. That's reality.


You think I "tolerate bigotry". Fine. Think what you want. Nothing I say will change your mind because you've already got your mind set on making me who you think I am.

compassion for an old lady isn't "tolerating bigotry".

I have an awful feeling that even if you were one of the staff permitted to deal with that elderly woman, you would probably walk right by her and maybe even spit on her in passing.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #173
174. So some of us are just supposed to "tolerate" bigotry. Really? That's just life?
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 10:07 PM by Raineyb
How very white of you.

Gee I hope I didn't hurt your little feelings with that one.
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #174
179. What's your grand plan, huh?
How are you going to do away with it?

By hating people?

Yeah...that's a fantastic plan. Let us all know how that one works out.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #179
185. And your grand plan is what tell the victims of bigotry to shut up and take it?
That's fucking stupid, it's asinine, and it's fucking wrong and you will never get people to put up with that shit. You can't be open with your defense of bigotry and think people won't call you out on it anymore. You'll just have to get with the program.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #173
182. And if the lady didn't want a black CNA, that's life.
Too bad it possibly ended hers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #182
235. And that's the saddest thing about this
because her choice just may have, or may in the future, end her life.

But I'm not so sure she would care much anyway. After my MIL broke her second hip, at the age of 93, she really didn't mind the idea of dying.

What bothered her was the idea of dying "kicking and screaming". She wanted to go peacefully, and she did...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #173
205. The patient HAD THE INSTRUCTION PUT IN HER FILE
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 03:10 AM by CakeGrrl
Yet you would have the CNA violate that order out of "compassion" and have the nasty bigot probably turn around and try to sue the facility.

To hell with that. If she doesn't want my black hands to help her up, then so it shall be.

That CNA was a professional and sought someone else to help. So your bigoted little old frail patient got her assistance and didn't have to endure the touch of a black person. All because that CNA actually DID show herself to be the far better person through her professionalism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #205
236. Go back and read again, because that's not what I wrote
and it's not what I meant.


People think they're going to rid the world of all the "bad" stuff by hating the people who think, say, or do the "bad stuff".

Unrealistic.


Also...what I wrote was that I suspected that the person I was replying to would, even if she were part of the staff PERMITTED to deal with the patient, would probably walk right by and spit on the person if it were known that the patient was a "bigot".

In other words, a patient falls. Bigot-haters know that the patient is a "bigot". Bigot-haters pretend not to see the person who fell...in fact, walk right by because the patient is not worth their time or trouble.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #205
257. Did THE PATIENT ever actually make such a specific request
Or was that instruction a judgement call of a doctor, nurse, social worker?

Neither of us were there!

At NO point have I seen anybody defend the attitudes of the patient!

And few, if any, of the posts attacked what the CNA did by not physically assisting, but instead, finding people who can handle the situation more effectively!

Please indulge me a related hypothetical, so I can better understand your POV!

You have a job in an E.R.! Patient brought in by police, suffering a heart attack!

The patient is an accused child molester! If true, he is a vile, reprehensible creature that many people wish dead!

But while it is PROBABLY true, he has not been tried and convicted!

Do you (A) help him regardless of how vile you find him, or (B) appoint yourself judge, jury, and executioner?

Do you find others willing to help, or just ignore him and hope he finds his justice in your E.R.?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #257
260. Yes the patient did.
From another article on the lawsuit:


But Chaney couldn't help the woman up. She had to search for a white aide because the woman had left instructions that she did not want any black caregivers.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100823/ap_on_he_me/us_pati...

Can you stop with the excuse-making now?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #257
261. Dupe
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 12:00 PM by Raineyb
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #76
181. Your logic reminds me of the anti-Ground Zero mosque people.
A small minority of one group commits atrocities, so therefore all members of that group are guilty by association simply because of their creed (or race in your example).

You talk about compassion but excuse bigotry -- that is not progressive.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
78. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
82. Absolutely incredible, the ignorance and hatred..pathetic. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Sickening, isn't it? When will this shit ever end??
Probably never. So incredibly sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
83. I just don't understand, WTF is wrong with people??
"No black CNA's"??? Evolve already!

Julie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stevenmarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
87. As they say, there's no fool like an old fool.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
88. well...I'm an ICU/ER/Tele nurse and have seen it all.
...including,of course,racism,sexism,and sexual preference-ism.When I was the charge nurse,I would generally try to make assignments in the nurses' favor,as they are the ones who have to put up with this(and other patients,don't forget).Sometimes it isn't possible.there are always people who are assholes...especially here in Texas...but something tells me this may have been more of a neurologic issue.I have seen many,many patients with encephalitis,head injuries,dementia,alcohol withdrawel....the list goes on and on...who do some really atypical crap.I did it before my brain surgery(nothing racist....mine was all....uninhibition)Most nurses realize this and help each other.Documentation of a patient's behavior is critical in this situation....including notification of physician and administration.If a patient was allowed to make a request of this sort,administration should have been contacted immediately when care could not be delivered.If care was unable to be delivered,then 9-1-1 should be called-with the assumption that pt is having a neurologic event.Just my experience(and,yes...I have had a right winger refuse ME....his loss)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #88
98. And you know, the irony...
I wonder how many here who had a relative in that sort of situation who had made that sort of request would be sitting here calling him or her all sorts of names, not feeling anything but scorn and contempt if that relative fell and got seriously injured or DIED because no black/Asian/gay/Republican/female/male person could help the relative...

Oh yeah...I can see it now...

outrage of the nuclear kind...maybe even lawsuits.


Or maybe not...maybe the people so unsympathetic in this situation would also think, "Good...let the old fucker lie on the floor unattended!"


Not a good choice there...hypocrisy?

or cold contempt for someone (even a family member) who didn't get help because of a "bigoted" attitude.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #98
134. Sign me up for a double order of cold contempt.
When you accept everything it is eventually the rejection of any principle.

I don't see the need to wish for further suffering but in all effect her own living will was being followed and if the nurses aide had attempted to help her she may have had a fight on her hands and been culpable for the injuries the patient inflicted on herself resisting assistance from this woman just try to do a damn difficult job for far less than can be justified except we throw our elderly away and corporations got to make their money.

How is it hypocrisy to accept at some point that you can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink?

You accept so much that you preclude free will. If my own mother refuses care, I have two options. I can have her sedated or restrained and treated or honor her wishes.

The only sympathy for the aide for being put into such a hellish position. The patient had a WRITTEN ORDER that was honored, the family's desires were enforced, the facility accepted the devil's bargain and it was honored.

Your prescription is that not only do you have to have staffing but it must be catered to fit some completely random sets of bigotry. I might be bigoted as shit against TeaPubliKlans but there is some difference there because I'm never going to sign a "Do not assist" order but if I change my mind it would seem like a "Do not resuscitate" and have to be accepted or denied and I would need a different facility.

It isn't sane to think that a facility is going to have a good lefty on hand 24 hours a day and seven days a week within arms reach. The same goes for any other bigots. You are betting your ass that an acceptable person to help you will be there for you.

Mrs Lee cannot logically expect that only a Japanese person can help and treat her, you do the math.

Eventually, even if everyone gives it a hell of an effort somebody is going to get sick or have to leave for an emergency and if Mrs Lee should happen to need help and refuses it because she was a bomb survivor or whatever reason then she is fucked.

She put herself and everyone else in check. If you want it to be different than the law must abridge free will and the patients must be sedated or restrained and dealt with.

You are being utopian in the extreme, leaving the shores of reality far behind.

You also are so idealistic as to deny right and wrong to the point of demanding the people going into the ovens try to understand the perspective of those shoving them in or they are more the same than they wish to admit.

Being liberal did not come with any paperwork that I would become a seeker of nirvana or the Great Link or whatever.

I've dealt with this shit before, right after 9/11 a couple of my employees were Arabic and old bigots didn't want them to transport them because they were "terrorist".
Well, I did what I could to keep drama down but that situation kept heating up to the point that it was either folks took what driver I sent or I'd be forced to fire damn hard working and good people because there were not enough reasonable folks for a stretch there to actually use them and the vehicles in a way that was functional at all.

I told them customers (yes, generally acutely sick elderly, their families, and facilities) with a spoon full of sugar that I could not and would not guarantee their services and that they'd just have to pass on dialysis or their check ups or their family visits or outings if they didn't like their driver.

I told them if they didn't like it then they were more than free to select a new provider. Same went for women for a lot of folks.

I put my job on the chopping line rather than theirs.

Some did go in other directions, including a big facility account but thankfully for me and eventually those two guys because the owner would cut them and advised I do so, they almost all came back crawling and begging for the quality of service we provided. A level of service exemplified by one of those gentlemen and well held up by the other.

In the real world, there is nothing but a cascade effect of injustice when you "understand" everybody.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #134
166. Sorry, I didn't see anything here that came close to addressing
my concern about a double standard.

I have a feeling that the people hooting in joy over that woman lying there so long would probably NOT be hooting with joy if it were their own relative, no matter how obnoxious that person's views were.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #166
176. I did address it. I said that I don't agree with the desire for suffering, how I would deal with my
my own mother (or at least my options), how I have dealt with a very similar real life application of the problem, and even included a personal parallel dealing with an admitted bigotry of my own and how it would apply in a similar situation.

In short, I dealt with your post fairly comprehensively, honestly, and seriously.

It isn't about being obnoxious, it is about ignoring all logistical concerns and magical thinking.

There are a ton of very real reasons why bigoted considerations are not plausible to deal with in these types of scenarios.

The patient, her family, the facility, and state law got what they wanted. You might find it uncomfortable but there is a such a thing as dark or gallows humor, she got what she asked for (in writing as well).

You can't deny it is ironic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #166
177. There is no fucking double standard. No one is making a broad brush about the woman's ethnicity.
They are discussing their sympathy, or lack thereof based on what the fucking woman DID.

You're just going to have to learn to deal with the fact that the number of people who are willing to make excuses for bigotry is dwindling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #88
99. When I worked LTC
That's exactly what we did. If there was an unwitnessed fall, or a fall greater than 3 feet I think it was,(such as out of bed siderails are not legal in LTC in my state) or any fall with injury, we called 911 immediately. We checked them for bleeding made them as comfortable as possible and waited for the medics.

I work in solid organ transplant now and we see a lot of crazy behavior as well.

If there is a plan and sensible policy in place prior to an event, and in this case there damn well should have been, a situation like this wouldn't have happened. I bet the place is understaffed, and the staff they have is underpaid and overworked and whoever is in charge is an idiot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mstinamotorcity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
95. That is why
her ass was laying in the floor. I ain't mad at cha. :P :P :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
106. I can't see how any medical establishment would ever allow such an order to stand
Besides the discrimination, there is the all-too-obvious danger to patients.

The patient or his/her family should be told right up front that such an order cannot be allowed and will not be honored.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #106
112. Exactly, and which is why I would hold the family
more responsible than the patient.


I wonder how the family would feel knowing that their mom/grandmother/sister/whatever had fallen and laid unattended for some time because of this order.

If I were the administrator of this facility, I would tell the family it cannot be honored. If they insisted, I would ask them to find another facility.

Nursing homes don't have to take patients they deem to be a danger.

My MIL was turned down by one, in fact, because of her history of violence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
108. This reminds me of a John Lennon song.
Edited on Thu Aug-26-10 01:43 PM by Radical Activist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP3wT5lpa4

Instant Karma's gonna get you
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
114. Geez, is there no human decency and compassion left??
People saying the patient should lay there on the floor for hours and hoping she's suffering.

You all will have just as much karma coming back to bite you as you think she did.

I guess I'm different from you all. If I see an elderly person on the street who falls down and has a racist shirt on or something, I'm still going to help them up. I won't just let them suffer.

The bad person in this scenario is the nursing home for letting this lady define their policies with hatred and bigotry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #114
153. Apparently not...
This isn't the lady who fell, but it could have been...


It disgusts me to think that there are people who might see someone like this and cheer over the fact that she may have lain on the floor for a very long time, no matter what her politics or beliefs may be.


Maybe they'd even do a bit of grave dancing if she had died.


No compassion...only hatred just as virulent as whatever hatred (or fear?) that the elderly woman in the OP may feel for black people.

Disgraceful




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #153
270. I see your pic and raise you one. And here's your post with a few changes.
This isn't the nurse in the story or those on this post who are Black, but it could have been...

It disgusts me to think that there are people who might see someone like this and dismiss how evil and dangerous bigots are.

No compassion...only hatred just as virulent as whatever hatred (or fear?) that the bigoted elderly White person in the OP may feel for the Black nurse or the Black ladies on this post, no matter what his/her beliefs may be.

Maybe they'd even do a bit of grave dancing if the Black nurse were lynched as well.

Disgraceful

P.S There. I fixed it. The old patient is a "person" (non-descriptive gender) and the women on this post are ladies (personal and human)




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #114
155. you are a good person.I admire your response
and-yes...there are a lot of people here who would do that.Sometimes,folks just have to vent.I would help a person regardless of their beliefs..-I've done it more times than I can remember.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #155
272. No he's not. People who make excuses for bigots are NOT good people.
Perhaps this is part of the problem with the dialog in this country when it comes to race.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #272
276. Don't you know that Black nurse should have helped that White Lady up from the floor?
She wasn't hurt, just lying on the floor and couldn't get up.
But according to this bigot's defenders she was "sick", "senile" "hurt" and had all kinds of imagined infirmities to make her a more helpless, fragile, and excusable bigot.

Same old bigotry.

LAWDY!!!! Miz Jenkins????!!! Is that you there on the floor? Now, I knows that you don't want mah ol' colored skin to be a touchin' yer purty White skin, but seein' as there's no one round to help ya, you jus let ol mammy help ya here. Now jus grab hold a mah neck and ol mammy'll take care of ya, hear?

Lawd knows the doctor tol ya, you don't be needin' no stress, but ol Mammy here? Ain't nothin' botherin' me, No ma'am. I'm strong as an ox.

Cause Lawd knows Mz Jenkins, ol Mammy don't care a how you treats me. Shoot,I ain't got no feelin's, and not much of a brain.


Lawd, Mz Jenkins, even if'n ya said it was agin' the LAW for me ta touch ya, ol Mammy'll go ta jail for ya Mz Jenkins. Sho would. Caus I'll always be your Mammy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #114
158. Interesting how you defend indecency in the name of decency.
Actually it's not funny at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
123. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #123
127. Nobody in your family has negative, even repulsive opinions?
So you would never have to worry about someone you love being neglected in a health care facility because of their opinions?

Or is your love towards others, including family members, conditional on their adherence to your standards?

Yes, I admit it! My father, who was in a nursing home, was a bigot! I hated seeing that in him!

But he was still my father! And when holier-than-thou hipsters come on here spouting crap about wanting sick people to suffer even more (as opposed to hoping something happens that softens the heart and leads them away from bigotry), it pisses me off!

Have a nice day! May the lessons you endure be kinder than the lessons you wish on others!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
131. that person is gonna be surprised all to hell,
when she finds out Jesus is black.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #131
133. And soon....nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
136. What does this have to do with "sympathy for the patient"? The nurse filed the lawsuit.
It's the nurse's rights that were violated--not by the senile patient but by her employer's asinine policy. The patient and sympathy or lack thereof is pretty irrelevant here... :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
152. This is one of the most bizarre and uncharitable threads I have ever seen at DU
People who end up in nursing homes are usually at the end of life and frail. Often mentally frail. If they could take care of themselves, would they be there in the first place? NO. They are waiting for death, most of them, and it can take a couple of years of deterioration before they check out.

This is one of the most bizarre and uncharitable threads I have ever seen at DU, in addition to which it provides testimony to how many people did NOT read the OP in its entirety. The NURSE filed the suit.

I know for a fact that any number of DUers are caring for or have cared for family members with senile dementia/Alzheimer's Disease/other forms of dementia. A few of them chimed in here -- and a lot of people don't want to listen.

The thing that makes dementia the most heartbreaking is the changes in personality. These are true changes, not a releasing of evil once kept behind a smiling face. A previously kind person may become incredibly mean. My great-grandmother, whom I never met, was adored by all of her older grandchildren. All of her younger grandchildren, my mother included, hated her -- and I mean hated. She had become senile, as they called it then, and it made her mean. There are surviving letters between great-grandmother's adult children and their spouses, in which things were said like: "Well I put the old bitch on the train to you. It's your turn for the next 3 months." Can you imagine how that felt?

None of us here knows what went on in the patient's mind, or in the minds of those responsible for placing her in the nursing home. We really don't know if she was once a bigot, always a bigot, or became fearful of black people when she became senile and non-rational.

Two things come to mind.
One is that the nurse was placed in an impossible situation as regards patient care. A patient on the floor could have a broken hip or a stroke, and she wasn't supposed to step in?

The other is that all of our greatest ethical teachers and religious teachers across many different religions have taught us to take care of the sick and helpless among us, no matter what, no matter how loathsome their condition. Lepers used to be the exemplar of that kind of condition. Helpless old people with mean and ungrateful tongues might be it today.

Think about it.

Hekate



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #152
165. You said it better than I ever could....
Ethics. Human compassion. An attempt to understand why an old lady would think the way she does.


In the minds of some, it's only the people with kind thoughts or words who deserve compassion.

In the minds of some, it's only the people whose opinions match our own who deserve understanding.

This really is one of the meanest threads I've ever seen here. :(

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #152
192. I gave an example with an actual patient of mine
down thread.

He was a challenge, and not exactly due to the medical issues. But from the word go he treated my crew like crap because of their color of skin, and me since I am Jewish.

The whole experience was not easy... but in the end we, well I, reached him.

But I still gave him a choice, to be treated by us (he thought we were less than whale shit) or not. He was alert, conscious and capable of making that decision. (Nasty fall he took)

But in this case, well I understand the nurse's POV, but not justify it fully. That said, in a real emergency, unless there is a DNR... if she is the only person around, she will have to start CPR. And some families would have a problem with that. The patient, depends if they make it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freetradesucks Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
170. I hope she wins the lawsuit.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
189. Leaving the legal issues out of this one
There are some patients who really are asses. When they are hurt\sick the racism gets worst.

Now we all have our biases, but...

We had a patient who did not want my partner to touch him. My partner was darker than most people think, after all there was some slave blood in his family line. He did not want any of my crew to touch him, as they were just damn Indians from Mexico. He was relieved I was white like him. So I realized what we were dealing with and pointed out I was Jewish, he was hurt... (not life threatening, a broken arm that did need surgery) and had a choice. Either we treated and transported, or he signed an AMA. But I was not going to tolerate the insults, period.

Well he chose the former, after some prodding from the wife. We took him to the border... where he even told me "at least I will get whites."

Wrong, FD responded with an engine, not one white in the crew, and the EMS crew was also NOT white. He was pissed... oh well. And no, nobody planned that. It was one of those you go... Karma.

We were professional, explained all we did, and chiefly why. We were courteous and professional, but I still remember his face when he saw my counterparts. When I went to pick the back board to the US side of the hospital I went to the waiting room and asked the wife how her husband was doing. I took her over to the cafeteria and bought her some coffee and breakfast, they had no money on them. This is oh next morning by the way after my shift was over. She confided that the whole experience shook him to his core, and perhaps was a good thing. You see perhaps he'd now see others through another prism. And yes, she was very thankful that we remained professional in spite of the name calling.

We did not have a card... but I still gave her my phone number in town. She was alone in town. I kept in touch for the week it took to get him treated, released and on a bus home. Years later I got a letter from her. He passed, but she was still very thankful and thought I'd like to know that he actually was changed by the whole experience... and stopped hanging up with some of his buddies and no longer treated well, she still used that word, in town as if they were trash, but more like humans.

I share the story since I know some of these folks, any of us, can be reached.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #189
196. {{{{{{{Nadin}}}}}}}
:hug: Your experience gives me hope that even some of our fellow posters in this thread can be reached some day. You have clear boundaries of respect and professionalism -- but you also clearly have compassion, and live it. :hug:

Hekate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #196
198. That day it wasn't easy
now the comedic one, ah the misunderstandings... I took a young kid to the ER who was in an accident.

Now I was 19 at the time. He had a swastika tat on his arm. In mexico city mind you, So I went into holocaust mode, and started lecturing. He didn't know what the swastika was. He never finished second grade you see. But he got that one since his hobby is astronomy. That is also a sign of a comet in eastern astronomy as well as Maya. Lord did I feel like an idiot that day.

He told me though, after hearing why I took a slight offense, that things have many meanings.

Again never assume a book by cover.

Kid did not have any formal education, but he was much wiser than people many decades his senior. That is a lesson I take to heart every day of the week and twice on sunday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
political_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
201. I hope that patient stayed on the floor and suffered there.
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 01:45 AM by political_Dem
If I were the CNA, I'd walk down the hall and not look back. That elderly patient earned that kind of beligerence with her racist behavior. And I hope she sat in a soiled diaper too during her long wait.

Screw the patient and her odious attitude.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #201
203. Your opinion is EVIL!!!
Her opinion is disgusting! Yours is terrifying!

Please never take a job in a nursing home, day care, etc! People suffer enough!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #201
207. Nasty you are
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
political_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #207
216. I have a lot of compassion for people. But not for a woman like this. She deserves contempt.
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 07:33 AM by political_Dem
I am not nasty nor evil. I am just tired of racists getting away with their behavior. In that instance compassion can only go so far--especially when one has family members who were terrorized and mistreated by people like that old lady in the Jim Crow South.

I just have a question for all you defenders of bigotry:

If it were Hitler, Cheney or even Pinochet on the ground, would you respect their request and get a white CNA? Or knowing what each did in terms of genocidal fashion, would you leave them there?

(I'm waiting for these defenders of bigotry to fight for the right to even pick these men off the ground. Especially watch them try to defend someone like Hitler.) :eyes:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #216
225. Didn't you hear? Giving the bigot what they wanted while still managing
to get help to her was not being the better person. It is worse to actually give the bigot what they asked for than to risk injury to themselves and the bigot trying to force their presence on the bigot after the nursing home acquiesced to the racist demand in the first place.

And apparently being the better person means you're supposed to sympathize and coddle bigots especially old ones. But being a nasty bigot in the first place? THAT apparently doesn't warrant scorn.

Un-fucking-believable some of the shit people say around here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #201
217. Just what we need
More hatred.

Because, ya know, there just isn't enough of it in this world.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
208. Some of the things I read here which happen in the USA
defy fucking belief.

In the UK the patient could've been charged - what she did is both an offense here and offensive too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #208
210. The UK jails sick, dying people
For THOUGHT CRIMES???

So much about this thread makes me sad and pessimistic!

People who otherwise seem compassionate towards victims of war, corporate greed, police brutality, etc. are willing, WITH RELISH, to let some woman whose only known crime is being a pig-headed fool, lay there and hopefully suffer!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #210
215. I see no mention of her being sick and dying
and it doesn't follow that it would be imprisonable here either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #215
223. In the lawsuit...
here:

http://courtlistener.com/ca7/Brenda-Chaney-v.-Plainfiel... /


Ms Chaney states that the resident was lying on the floor, too weak to stand. So I think we can all pretty much agree that the resident wasn't there on vacation...

;)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #223
277. I think we can all pretty much agree that she's old and weak. Not SICK.
If she was sick, it would have said so, nice try.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #208
214. Offensive but happens in UK too ...especially in the NHS more with OAP's
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
212. God
this case is disturbing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
228. Reminds me of that episode of MASH where the patient requested no Black Blood
It was a very funny episode back when MASH ws pretty fun and yet the humor got the point accross very well that we are all alike.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #228
242. Similar instances have happened in real life. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
229. You would think that someone with one foot in the grave would
want to leave a legacy of something other than hate. It's really pathetic but I've no patience or benevolence for bigotry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #229
233. Neither do I. What I find particularly galling is that
those who have no patience or benevolence for bigotry are being labeled by some as the assholes in this situation. It would appear that no matter what the situation thou shalt not have an unkind word, or thought for a bigot because it makes you the nasty person in the situation. And apparently one is supposed to put up with the fucking excuse-making and not get angry over it.

There is something seriously wrong with some people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #233
237. Maybe it IS a catch-22 but I'm still a work in progress and to date
my compassion just doesn't extend that far and I make no apologies for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #237
239. My compassion doesn't extend that far either. In fact it pisses me off.
And the people who make excuses for it piss me off even more. Old, sick, insane, I don't care I think bigots can all go to hell. I've had my existence made miserable by too many of them growing up. I've heard the excuses, I've had people tell me I was imagining things when I knew damn well I wasn't. I've had white girls get away with bothering me on the school yard while I got in trouble for defending myself. I've learned that I have to defend myself by any means necessary at times because if you look for permission you won't get it. And still I try to take everyone as an individual but if someone turns out to be a bigot that's it I want NOTHING to do with them. They get the back of my hand and anything they have to say gets no merit.

Wrong? Perhaps as this country seems to think being the bigger person is to allow people to wrong you and get away with it. At least if you're in certain groups or classes, but I already know that those in power don't give a rat's ass about my black behind. So I'll do what I have to to protect myself and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it It's not like they're looking out for me anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #239
241. True Raineyb. I think it's safe to say, all of us have those
experiences not only in childhood but present day, as well. These apologists have never experienced systemic racism and until they DO they can't preach to me about how I should feel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #241
249. Even if most of us have never experienced systemic racism...
there are many of us who, by virtue of the fact that we were born female, have experienced blatant sexism.

How do I feel about it? I was, and am, pissed.


I'm pissed that sexism exists.

Will sexism go away because I hate the sexist and hope something awful happens to him?

The prevailing attitude among the haters of the world seems to be that anyone who doesn't hate with as much fervor as they do must be "apologists".

So sad...

:(



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #249
252. While you're pissed that it exists at all, I'm pissed at the
perpetrators and make no apologies for that. In the real world, one can't resolve issues by trying to separate the two.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #249
254. And still making excuses for bigotry. Of course white women have it so much more
difficult than being black and female in this country.

:sarcasm:

Spare me. I have no interest in anything an apologist for bigotry has to say. And that whole I'm female so I know how it is bullshit is exactly that. Bullshit. You don't know shit about what it's like to grow up black and female in a country that doesn't respect either and clearly by your excuses for a bigot you're not at all inclined to give a fuck about the black part of that equation. Go preach your shit to someone as clueless as you are but don't you DARE try to lecture to two black women about the difficulties of being female in this country while overlooking the difficulties of being black.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phil The Cat Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #254
263. That's it! Embrace your pain!
Treat it like a jewel, a favorite pet, a loved one!

Forget constructive solutions! Pain and disappointment must be clung to like a life raft!

And remember, anyone who disappoints you, who oppresses you, even in the most distant, unnoticable way cannot be cured! They MUST be destroyed!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #263
265. Now I get you. You are one of those people who want everyone to "be the better person"
so you can pretend that the bigotry that exists does less damage than it does. You want a white wash. Well sorry, you're not getting off the hook that easily. Bigotry is ugly, and it does damage. You don't like my anger? Too fucking bad. I have EVERY right to my anger and I don't have to pretend that things are less bad than they are in order to make you feel better about it. THAT is the problem in this country. We spend too much time whitewashing real pain, especially when it has been deliberately inflicted, in order to avoid dealing with the ugly mess that is this country's legacy.

And as for constructive solutions, you don't have any. All you have is excuses for bigotry and you have the nerve to expect me to act as though it's okay to brush it aside and act like it doesn't matter? Well it does matter, it's not okay, and there's no fucking excuse for it.

If you can't understand that simple concept then there's really no point in talking. Excuse makers for bigotry are as bad as the fucking bigots themselves and they can all go to hell. I am under no obligation to make you feel better about it. If that's what you want perhaps you might want to talk to Michael Steele, he's used to playing the clown and playing whatever role white people feel comfortable with. Your comfort is not my concern.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #263
273. Hey - she wasn't DYING or even HURT. SHE was LYING on the frickin' floor and couldn't get up.
That's it. Ya know like, "help, I've fallen and I can't get up!"...

But just don't send the old coot no negroes. You people treat this bigot as if she's some princess. As if she's...........well, BETTER than the Black people she hates.

Oh, I get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #273
275. Elderly patients on the floor can be in real medical trouble--
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 02:15 PM by TwilightGardener
both in terms of what caused them to fall and in terms of fall injuries. It's always considered an urgent situation, and they undergo thorough assessment afterwards, and it gets charted up the wazoo for legal reasons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #254
268. Did you see that picture of the BATTERED old lady that doesn't have anything to do with this story?
That's what racism is all about. Exaggeration, fear mongering, humanizing the bigot, making excuses for the bigot (old, didn't request it herself senile, blah blah), dehumanizing and demonizing (you're eeeeevil, cold, heartless) those who DARE to say the racist got what they deserved.

What a crock. Same shit different decade. My wish for them is that they get to experience racism, and that we can walk by and chide them, deride them, and chastise them for being eeeevil.

They should go to the Beck rally and "reclaim civil rights"

Your posts are great, and I'm with you 100%

Eeeeevily yours, lol) Rach
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #268
269. I hadn't noticed the picture but I did go back and look for it.
Unbelievable! What a dishonest ploy for sympathy in a rather pathetic attempt at making excuses!

You are right about the way the excuses are made. It's considered more evil to be disgusted at the bigotry, it is worse to point out bigotry than it is to actually BE the bigot.

This country has lost it's damn mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #269
271. My response to the pic is above. You go and have a great day.
I'm going to go and have a WONDERFUL day with my beautiful Black and White friends and family who are compassionate, beautiful, and do not tolerate bigotry (or fools)easily!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #268
274. "Battered"? Not necessarily. All it takes is a good slip-and-fall at that age, to look like that
Thin skin, brittle bones, and poor balance make a deadly combination.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #229
246. You don't seem to understand that death of synapses leads to irrational fears
Not one poster has 'defended bigotry'. But many of us have had experiences which include the care for the elderly.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #246
251. I, too, have had experience caring for the elderly and
rational or irrational fears were never an issue. The human psyche dictates that we don't suddenly develop "fears." Whatever so called "fears" we have are either prominent or latent. Iow, this patient had these feelngs before she entered into a nursing home.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #251
258. What difference does it make, whether she had negative feelings or fears
in her younger years? What difference does it make, in the caregiver/patient relationship, if she was a racist, or is now seemingly racist due to brain deterioration? It doesn't. The only things that matter are this--a patient is lying on the floor, how do we help her up and assess her for injuries while not violating her wishes (distasteful and irrational though they may be), and how do we allow the CNA to effectively perform her duties and not be forced into a situation that violates her position's code of conduct? In a health care setting, patients are patients first and foremost--not bigots, or assholes, or nutcases, or homeless losers, or junkies, or criminals--they are patients, and they are not judged by their behavior or attitudes or current state of mind. They are dealt with as they come, not as we'd like them to be.

My quibble with this home is this: putting that "no blacks" order in the chart--the chart is a legal document, and the CNA's hands become tied to some extent. In most facilities, however, common sense rules, and informally the staff might arrange assignments to avoid such conflict, to accomodate both the patient's wishes and the staff's comfort, safety, and right to work effectively. I have seen this done many times. If a patient becomes nasty or upset by a certain gender or race of caregiver, or if they have a bad personal reaction to specific caregiver, you try to work around it. If it's unavoidable or an emergent situation (and yes, elderly found on the floor are emergent--many reasons why), then you do what you have to do according to your job description and license and hope the patient or family doesn't sue. In no case do you judge or treat the patient differently, the same standards of care apply.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #251
266. You are totally wrong. Human BIOLOGY dictates we certainly DO develop irrational fears
as our higher brain functions diminish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #246
256. There was enough forethought to make a request and have it put on a chart.
This isn't some spontaneous occurrence. The bigotry was there to begin with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
232. my father was a racist
It was actually kind of cute what happened to him. He got dementia/ alzheimer's and could no longer tell the difference between the people he formerly disdained
and himself and called them all "paesani" (friends/countrymen)
It's a good thing because they all loved him and never knew he'd been racist and he loved them back. Clearly it doesn't work out that way for many other people...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
247. Interesting thread--those who have been professional caregivers
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 10:47 AM by TwilightGardener
know that you take care of everyone, because it is your duty, whether they like you or hate you. I have had patients spit in my face, punch me, pull my hair, call me names, etc.--some were confused elderly or had brain trauma, some were overdoses, some just complete assholes. Still had to take care of them, and would have been grateful had they requested I didn't take care of them, frankly--who wants to work under those conditions, with hostile and violent patients? I am sure the black, Native American and Filipino nurses and aides I have worked with have had many more negative experiences than I had as a white woman. And yet they remained professional and didn't let their personal feelings and inner reactions seep out into their work and affect their job performance--at least not that I ever saw. My hat is off to them.

Sad that this CNA was put into a difficult position--I don't blame her at all, she only did what she was ordered to do, but I know I would be worried about charges of negligence and would really hate to see an old woman on the floor no matter how awfully she behaved. Most nurses/aides would have that same gut reaction--not "leave her there, hope she soils herself". That's the difference, I guess.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #247
262. The CNA took it to court, and the courts ruled that patients would not have a choice based on race.
This CNA is a hero in my book....as it was her action of taking this case to court that changed a dumbass law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #262
264. I agree with the court--the health care system would suffer terribly
under the burden of trying to have enough staff of various races to legally accomodate various demands, while remaining fair to the caregivers--and I suspect that someday the gender-preference ruling will fall too, if enough men become caregivers. That said, if I were a supervisor making assignments, I would not assign caregivers of a given race to patients who express hostility to that race, or male caregivers to female patients who have expressed discomfort with male caregivers, unless there were reasons why it had to happen--common sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #247
279. Old people fall on the floor and can't get up. She don't want no coloreds helping her.
So be it.

I wouldn't hate to see her on the floor. Big deal. Plenty of people like her have called my children niggers and hurt there little hearts and spirits. They are what's wrong with this world. Hateful, spiteful, mean hurtful, ugly people, they are.

I would have done what the nurse did, and get someone else to help her. Big deal. She's fallin' and can't get up. Why is it so drastic and traumatic because she's a bigot? So she was on the floor for another minute. Whoop-dee-do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
282. Locking
This has developed into a very contentious thread with lots of personal attacks. We feel that both sides have made their points and see no hope for civil or constructive debate at this point.

cbayer
DU Moderator
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Jul 30th 2014, 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC