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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 08:05 AM
Original message
Comey's testimony points to unrevealed facts/issues....
According to Comey's testimony in response to Sen Chuck Schumer's questioning:

Comey got the call from Ashcroft's wife that Gonzales and Card were on their way over to her husband's hospital room, and Comey immediately swung into action to intercept them before they could get Ashcroft to sign the illegal Executive Order allowing domestic spying.

What is missing here?

#1 For Comey to react this way, he had to have heard of the President's intended plan to engage in domestic spying on Americans. OR was it a fear of something worse that remains unrevealed?

Another point, Comey called his COS and ordered them to get the FBI to Ashcroft's hospital room pronto before Gonzales and Card arrived. Why order this action if he had no idea why they were on their way over?

#2 And FBI Director Mueller orders his agents to make sure Comey was not removed from Ashcroft's hospital room knowing that Gonzales and Card are on their way over.

It sure sounds like Mueller had a heads up about what was about to come down. And for Mueller to become personally involved in this way, it sure sounds like he and Comey might have discussed such a tactic might be used by the White House.

#3 Card's demand that Comey come to the White House immediately after the hospital room tactic did not work, and Comey's refusal to come without the Solicitor General as a witness, most likely reveals a conversation(maybe heated exchange) occurred at the hospital after Ashcroft refused to sign. (Comey did not testify to this on the record, but he may very well reveal this to the Committee behind closed doors).

#4 Comey and Mueller met separately with the President, but Comey was very clear that only Mueller was told to communicate to Comey that he should 'do the right thing'. And then this bombshell, Comey testified that the President authorized the domestic spying anyway without the DOJ signing off on it. And the program remained in place, fully implemented, for at least 2-3 weeks while the DOJ negotiated with the White House over the proper safeguards that would have to be included to make it legal.

So if Bush wanted Comey to 'do the right thing', why did he not tell Comey face-to-face instead of going through Mueller to deliver that message?

The unrevealed fact here might be that Comey had already told the President that it would be illegal to proceed with his intended plan, and that he would resign rather than be a part of it on behalf of the DOJ. The President had already decided to go forward without Comey and the DOJ signing off on it. But when Mueller told Bush that he and many others would resign if Bush did not change the domestic spying program he was proposing Bush realized that mass resignations would light up Washington like a Christmas tree and draw Press attention before the program could be implemented.

So Bush had to maintain 'plausible deniability' without agreeing to comply with the existing law that Comey was upholding --so he communicates his feigned intention to follow the law by using Mueller to pass on his direction that Comey 'do the right thing.' That prevents Comey from testifying later that Bush promised him in a direct exchange that Bush would follow the law, when Bush fully intended to circumvent the law anyway.

#5 Did Comey fail to reveal in his testimony that he did not believe Bush's implied promise to follow the law by telling him indirectly to 'do the right thing'? Comey did testify that he planned to resign after this meeting and was encouraged to stay on by an Ashcroft aide until Ashcroft was well enough to resign with him at the same time.

#6 Comey was the acting AG while Ashcroft was in the hospital. Comey in that capacity fully empowered Fitzgerald to investigate the Plame leak and to subsequently prosecute Scooter Libby. Comey speaks with Bush.

Was there any discussion with the President regarding Comey's appointment of Fitzgerald and his empowerment of him to investigate the Plame leak and subsequently prosecute Libby?

Does anyone believe that Bush could restrain himself from addressing the Plame investigation with the man who empowered Fitzgerald in this setting?

#7 Comey and Mueller were on the same page, both intending to resign. Comey resigns and Mueller stays on. What happened? What was Mueller told that changed his mind? And what did Comey learn that did not change his mind about resigning? Seems to be a parting of ways between the two on the proper response to this attempted illegal act.

These and other questions naturally arise from the shocking testimony received from Comey so far.

Sometimes there is a timing issue, and the lack of the right questions being asked, that prevents a witness like Comey from revealing all he knows. It would appear that there is lots more fertile ground to plow by the SJC with Comey.

The general rule is when a career employee like Comey stands up to the President of the United States there is a lot more beneath the surface than is publicly revealed.

IMHO there is one whale of a story left to reveal that triggered the events we know about so far.

Stay tuned.

(If I made any factual errors please do us all a favor and point them out. I posted here from memory after reading the liveblogging account, and did not see the actual testimony).
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Now I understand why people were saying 'today's stunning revelation'.
Edited on Wed May-16-07 08:47 AM by higher class
I couldn't undertand why the hospital attempted signing was news when we knew about it months ago. However, this detail is amazing and justifies the remarks. Thanks for your presentation and comments/questions. K & R

The arrogance of the neo-con arrogants. Unbelievable nerve to pretend that what you are doing is legal by applying pressure and forcing responsibility (and blame) and others.

All proof that they knew that what they were doing was not law.

Opening: Position in the White House administration. Patsies, scapegoats, and player-liars only need apply. If you believe that you are as ruthless and dishonest as our Presidents and are as criminally maleable as our Attorney General - ask for an interview and an opportunity to take our loyaty tests.

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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kick - Let's get this on the front page

Enough about the Satan spawn Falwell....
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. There is a transcript here that you can read
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. Mafia like behavior..
criminals to the core, every single one of them. What a mockery they've made of our government and of our democracy.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. and the Corporate Media considers it bidness as usual
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. total mafia. i'm humming the godfather theme after reading this. n/t
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R nt
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. I feel the same way. "The general rule is when a
...career employee like Comey stands up to the President of the United States there is a lot more beneath the surface than is publicly revealed."

This is why, when generals come out in the open to criticize Iraq strategy or when Wolfowitz colleagues are talking about his ouster, you know there's a lot more that they aren't discussing. If everything else was OK, you wouldn't have resignations, whistleblowing, and the like. Indeed, that we have any of that at all speaks to how bad things look to insiders. For Paul ONeill, a former CABINET MEMBER, to write a book early on in the administration about how dysfunctional the administration is, you know it's bad.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. Here are what I consider 'nuggets' from the transcript, and more Questions....
Edited on Wed May-16-07 10:39 AM by Blackhatjack
Having availed myself of the link above to the transcript at thinkprogress.com, I have pulled what I consider the real 'nuggets' from that transcript, and have included my questions and comments in << >> below.

These excerpts answer some of the questions I raised in the OP.

"COMEY: we communicated to the relevant parties at the White House and elsewhere our decision that as acting attorney general I would not certify the program as to its legality and explained our reasoning in detail, which I will not go into here. Nor am I confirming its any particular program. That was Tuesday that we communicated that.
The next day was Wednesday, March the 10th, the night of the hospital incident."

<<So the White House knew Comey would never sign off and the reasons why he would not sign off BEFORE the hospital visit>>

<snip>

"And Mrs. Ashcroft reported that a call had come through, and that as a result of that call Mr. Card and Mr. Gonzales were on their way to the hospital to see Mr. Ashcroft.
SCHUMER: Do you have any idea who that call was from?
COMEY: I have some recollection that the call was from the president himself, but I dont know that for sure. It came from the White House. And it came through and the call was taken in the hospital."

<<And Comey believes the call came from the President himself, but definitely from the White House. So now we have confirmation that Bush knew exactly what Gonzales and Card were attempting.>>

<snip>

"And Attorney General Ashcroft then stunned me. He lifted his head off the pillow and in very strong terms expressed his view of the matter, rich in both substance and fact, which stunned me drawn from the hour-long meeting wed had a week earlier and in very strong terms expressed himself, and then laid his head back down on the pillow, seemed spent, and said to them, But that doesnt matter, because Im not the attorney general.
SCHUMER: But he expressed his reluctance or he would not sign the statement that they give the authorization that they had asked, is that right?
COMEY: Yes.
And as he laid back down, he said, But that doesnt matter, because Im not the attorney general. There is the attorney general, and he pointed to me, and I was just to his left.
The two men did not acknowledge me. They turned and walked from the room. And within just a few moments after that, Director Mueller arrived. I told him quickly what had happened. He had a brief a memorable brief exchange with the attorney general and then we went outside in the hallway."

<<Gonzales and Card do not acknowledge Comey because they already know Comey's position and that they have been caught trying to undercut him. And Mueller arrives inside the hospital room, and this must be an understatement: "He(Mueller) had a brief--a memorable brief exchange with the attorney general(Ashcroft).>>

<snip>

"And he said it was Mr. Card wanting to speak to me. I took the call. And Mr. Card was very upset and demanded that I come to the White House immediately.
I responded that, after the conduct I had just witnessed, I would not meet with him without a witness present.
He replied, What conduct? We were just there to wish him well.
And I said again, After what I just witnessed, I will not meet with you without a witness. And I intend that witness to be the solicitor general of the United States.
SCHUMER: That would be Mr. Olson.
COMEY: Yes, sir. Ted Olson.
Until I can connect with Mr. Olson, Im not going to meet with you.
He asked whether I was refusing to come to the White House. I said, No, sir, Im not. Ill be there. I need to go back to the Department of Justice first.
And then I reached out through the command center for Mr. Olson, who was at a dinner party. And Mr. Olson and the other leadership of the Department of Justice immediately went to the department, where we sat down together in a conference room and talked about what we were going to do.
And about 11 oclock that night this evening had started at about 8 oclock, when I was on my way home. At 11 oclock that night, Mr. Olson and I went to the White House together."

<<Comey pulls Olson from a dinner party and with the other leadership of the DOJ they go to the department conference room and talk about what they are going to do. Put this together with Card's change in demeanor at the White House, and it sounds like they all agreed to resign in protest if the President went forward with this program as presented. And to leave at 11:00 pm for a meeting at the White House makes this sound ominous since both Comey and Mueller would be appearing at the White House early the next morning, less than 8 hrs later, to conduct the regular morning meeting. One could infer that Card and the President realized that massive resignations had to be averted that night and could not wait until the morning.>>

<snip>

"SCHUMER: Can you tell us a little bit about the discussion at the Justice Department when all of you convened? I guess it was that night.
COMEY: I dont think its appropriate for me to go into the substance of it. We discussed what to do. I recall the associate attorney general being there, the solicitor general, the assistant attorney general in charge of the Office of Legal Counsel, senior staff from the attorney general, senior staff of mine. And we just I dont want to reveal the substances of those"

<<LOOK AT THIS LINEUP OF TOP DOJ NAMES: This indicates the breadth and importance of what was being discussed>>

"SCHUMER: I dont want you to reveal the substance.
They all thought what you did what you were doing was the right thing, I presume.
COMEY: I presume. I didnt ask people. But I felt like we were a team, we all understood what was going on, and we were trying to do what was best for the country and the Department of Justice. But it was a very hard night."

<snip>

"SCHUMER: Right. OK.
Was there any discussion of resignations with Mr. Card?
COMEY: Mr. Card was concerned that he had heard reports that there were to be a large number of resignations at the Department of Justice.
SCHUMER: OK. OK.
And the conversations, the issue, whatever it was, was not resolved.
COMEY: Correct. We communicated about it. I communicated again the Department of Justices view on the matter. And that was it.
SCHUMER: Right.
And you stated that the next day, Thursday, was the deadline for reauthorization of the program, is that right?
COMEY: Yes, sir.
SCHUMER: OK.
Can you tell us what happened the next day?
COMEY: The program was reauthorized without us and without a signature from the Department of Justice attesting as to its legality. And I prepared a letter of resignation, intending to resign the next day, Friday, March the 12th."

<<Kind of says it all --Bush went forward without the DOJ signoff, and Comey prepared a letter of resignation. Bush cannot say he was uninformed as to the illegality of the step he was taking>>

<snip>

"SCHUMER: OK.
And why did you decide to resign? COMEY: I just believed
SCHUMER: Or to offer your resignation, is a better way to put it?
COMEY: I believed that I couldnt I couldnt stay, if the administration was going to engage in conduct that the Department of Justice had said had no legal basis. I just simply couldnt stay.
SCHUMER: Right. OK.
Now, let me just ask you this. And this obviously is all troubling.
As I understand it, you believed that others were also prepared to resign, not just you, is that correct?
COMEY: Yes.
SCHUMER: OK.
Was one of those Director Mueller?
COMEY: I believe so. Youd have to ask him, but I believe so.
SCHUMER: You had conversations with him about it.
COMEY: Yes.
SCHUMER: OK.
How about the associate attorney general, Robert McCallum?
COMEY: I dont know. We didnt discuss it.
SCHUMER: How about your chief of staff?
COMEY: Yes. He was certainly going to go when I went.
SCHUMER: Right.
How about Mr. Ashcrofts chief of staff?
COMEY: My understanding was that he would go as well.
SCHUMER: And how
COMEY: I should say
SCHUMER: Please.
COMEY: to make sure Im accurate, I
SCHUMER: This is your surmise, not
COMEY: Yes.
I ended up agreeing Mr. Ashcrofts chief of staff asked me something that meant a great deal to him, and that is that I not resign until Mr. Ashcroft was well enough to resign with me. He was very concerned that Mr. Ashcroft was not well enough to understand fully what was going on. And he begged me to wait until this was Thursday that I was making this decision to wait til Monday to give him the weekend to get oriented enough so that I wouldnt leave him behind, was his concern.
SCHUMER: And it was his view that Mr. Ashcroft was likely to resign as well?
COMEY: Yes.
SCHUMER: So what did you do when you heard that?
COMEY: I agreed to wait. I said that what I would do is that Friday would be last day. And Monday morning I would resign."

<<Holy Cow! Threatening to resign --Comey, Mueller, Assoc AG McCallum, Comey's COS, Ashcroft's COS, and ASHCROFT HIMSELF. Who would be left at DOJ to carry on? It would have been a massive abandonment of the DOJ on the grounds that the President was acting unlawfully. Bigger than the 'Saturday Night Massacre' during the Nixon Watergate Investigation when AG Eliot Richardson and his assistant refused to fire the Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox as directed by Nixon, and Bork eventually stepped in and fired him.>>

<snip>

"SCHUMER: Thank you.
Now, lets go to the next day, which was March 12. Can you tell us what happened then?
COMEY: I went to the Oval Office as I did every morning as acting attorney general with Director Mueller to brief the president and the vice president on what was going on on Justice Departments counterterrorism work.
We had the briefing. And as I was leaving, the president asked to speak to me, took me in his study and we had a one-on-one meeting for about 15 minutes again, which I will not go into the substance of. It was a very full exchange. And at the end of that meeting, at my urging, he met with Director Mueller, who was waiting for me downstairs."

<<A 'very full exchange' during a 'one-on-one meeting for about 15 minutes' with Bush in his study? This speaks volumes about the seriousness of the situation. And it obviously was not resolved since Comey urged Bush to speak with Mueller downstairs. I would imagine that Comey told Bush he was resigning shortly and that Mueller would follow, and Bush should ask Mueller himself to confirm that.>>

"He met with Director Mueller again privately, just the two of them. And then after those two sessions, we had his direction to do the right thing, to do what we
SCHUMER: Had the presidents direction to do the right thing?
COMEY: Right.
We had the presidents direction to do what we believed, what the Justice Department believed was necessary to put this matter on a footing where we could certify to its legality.
And so we then set out to do that. And we did that."

<<In questioning by Arlene Specter, Comey confirms that Bush's direction to 'do the right thing' came through Mueller to him.>>

---Many thanks to the ThinkProgress transcript link above. The actual words are even more incriminating.

One additional question: Why did Comey and Mueller and the others not resign the next day UNLESS they were falsely led to believe that the domestic spying program would be changed to make it legal BEFORE it was to be implemented on March 11, the next day? And we now know that Bush went forward for at least 2-3 weeks without DOJ recommended changes or approval. Sounds like there might have been some promises made by Bush designed to head off the resignations which Bush had no intention of keeping.]
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I must have misunderstood something here about Ted Olson
"And I said again, After what I just witnessed, I will not meet with you without a witness. And I intend that witness to be the solicitor general of the United States.
SCHUMER: That would be Mr. Olson.
COMEY: Yes, sir. Ted Olson.
Until I can connect with Mr. Olson, Im not going to meet with you.
...
And then I reached out through the command center for Mr. Olson, who was at a dinner party. And Mr. Olson and the other leadership of the Department of Justice immediately went to the department, where we sat down together in a conference room and talked about what we were going to do.
And about 11 oclock that night this evening had started at about 8 oclock, when I was on my way home. At 11 oclock that night, Mr. Olson and I went to the White House together."

<<Comey pulls Olson from a dinner party and with the other leadership of the DOJ they go to the department conference room and talk about what they are going to do. Put this together with Card's change in demeanor at the White House, and it sounds like they all agreed to resign in protest if the President went forward with this program as presented....>>"


It sounds like Ted Olson was willing to resign in protest too. I am honestly confused by this because nothing in Ted Olson's history--that I know of, anyway--indicates that he is willing to stand on principle when it comes to politics. Am I missing something?

I've been pleasantly surprised by Ashcroft's actions during this melodrama and I'll be happy to reconsider my position on Ted Olson's integrity if it turns out that he was on the right side of this, too.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I am no fan of Olson either, so allow me to raise a cynical possibility....
Olson helped put Bush in the White House. He will never escape the condemnation that flows from that action in my book.

However, in a more cynical vein, I believe Olson appreciated the seriousness of this situation. That a program like this was so far over the line that it would never remain secret from the public forever, and when it became known that the President was knowingly and willingly violating the law the obvious next step would be to look at the DOJ and those advising them to see if they had approved this illegal action. So it may have been a good part of self-preservation that drove Olson's position on this issue.

No one in the legal community denies that Olson is a smart attorney.

If and when Bush goes down, you would expect the smart attorneys in a position like that held by Olson will have separated themselves from the actual wrongdoing. IN this case there was no rooom for fencesitting on this issue, and I suspect Olson knew he had to be on the side of legality because he knows that Bush and his Administration will be condemned for years to come.
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. Item number 4 - clearly violates FISA and should be clear grounds for impeachment
Bush ordered spying that was illegal and his on DOJ refused to go along.

This might just be a blue dress moment that creates some momentum.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. it is possible that WH was eavesdropping on Comey - Mueller - Olson
....or some combination of DoJ leadership at the very time Card and Gonzales were racing to the hospital. That would explain the changed demeanor of Card. It would explain how WH seemed to know what was going to happen. The DoJ senior conference room might have been bugged, as well.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. It is possible. More likely more conversation b/t Comey/Mueller and Card/Gonzo than revealed...
I think Comey withheld lots of information regarding head to head conversations that likely were heated and threatening.

Comey had made his position clear before Card/Gonzo approached Ashcroft. I would imagine that Comey threatened resignation before the hospital meeting if the White House went forward without the changes Comey needed to sign off as legal.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. I wonder if Shumer and others will ask Comey more questions. It seems there's
more there that needs to be asked. Just one Senate hearing isn't going to get to the bottom of this. Anyone know if he's scheduled to appear before the House?

Thanks BHJ..for your analysis!
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I think there were references to Comey revealing more to the Comm, just not public testimony...
Comey has likely filled in the Committee on lots of details that he did not feel comfortable putting in the public record.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
15. A big Question: Did the White House Limit What Comey Could Testify About?
I have seen references to Gonzales attempting to limit the testimony of Ashcroft and Comey before Congressional Committees.

So how would Comey be limited as an ex-employee?

Would it relate to 'executive privilege' arguments?
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Z_I_Peevey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. kick n/t
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. The thing I don't get is that this was a re-authorization not the initial authorization
So my question for Comey is: was the program misrepresented to DOJ the first time? If not, then why the change of heart?

The program continued, rather than was implemented as you imply in bullet 4.

I do agree there are lots of questions left unasked here.

-Hoot
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. The reason I used 'implemented' in #4 instead of 're-authorized' was because....
There obviously was information circulating that caused Comey and Ashcroft to believe that the domestic spying program was being operated illegally. Comey did not address what the catalyst was that sparked this discussion between himself and Ashcroft. However, it is obvious that the program had been in use prior to the attempted re-authorization sought from Ashcroft at his hospital bed.

Comey specifically told Schumer he would not describe what the document referred to that Gonzo and Card tried to get Ashcroft to sign.

I believe that the Executive Order they wanted Ashcroft to sign was probably more detailed and far reaching than the original description of the domestic spying program that in all likelihood had not yet been implemented when first presented to DOJ. I think Comey was concerned that in his drugged state Ashcroft might be ratifying past approval of a program that is more fully described in the document they were presenting to him than was initially described to them
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. LINK to video of Comey testimony at TalkingPointsMemo.com....
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/014173.php

This is an edited version, reduced to about 15 min. Hits the highlights.
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