I'd like to know how a family with kids can make it in today's economy?

[NNN0LHI]

I do a lot of shopping with my wife and the prices of everything has gone through the roof. And I mean everything. All the while incomes are dropping.

And this is with just two of us and a couple of dogs and we can barely make it from payday to payday.

How the hell do people raising a couple of little kids do it?

I can't figure this one out.

Don

[mwb970]

1. I used to sort of wistfully regret I never had kids.

Not any more.

[Divernan]

18. I used to regret not having grandchildren.

Not any more. I worry enough about my adult children, and what they face in local communities and states forced to slash basic human services/education; in a country dedicated to waging endless war to profit/sustain the congressional/military/industrial complex; and in a world suffering catastrophic effects of global warming. Except for those obscenely wealthy "royalty"/top 2 percent of Americans,The stress level of any thinking person in this country is trending toward crippling.

Those of us on Social Security are told there's no cost of living adjustment for this year or next, because there's been no inflation. Well let's see, my auto insurance has increased (I drive less than 5,000 miles a year and have no accident record); my electric utility just got approval to raise my rates 9.4 percent; my homeowners' insurance has increased (reasonably, since there have been massive claims for ice/snow damage from last winter's monstrous weather; the guy who mows my lawn bumped his costs up $40 a month (I can't do it myself any longer - bad knees and steep hill); hairdresser's raised the charge for my monthly haircut. I've dropped my Barnes & Noble discount program - get all my books and DVDs at the public library (which is under financial pressure to reduce services). No more Starbuck's or Panera's or Pizza Hut for me. Going out to eat at a really good restaurant? Used to go out every Friday or Saturday night - now it's once or twice a year. Used to go to the movies at least once a week - can't remember the last time I set foot in a movie theatre. I love the opera, live theatre and symphony - would have season tickets to at least one of the three. No more. I can't even afford the parking to go to these. Foreign travel? Not any more.

When my kids were growing up, in the 60's, I fed a family of 5, plus pets, extremely well on $50 a week - fresh vegetables, the best cuts of meat, etc. Now I struggle to feed myself and two cats on $80 a week.

But what the hell! For my daughter's birthday I splurged and got us tickets to Paul McCartney's upcoming concert. And when he sings, "Yesterday, all my troubles were so far away, now I need a place to hideaway. Oh, I believe in yesterday." there will be some tears shining in my eyes.

[MissB]

2. Two salaries from technical jobs.

We were surviving just fine on one salary, but I went back to my career a few years ago before the economy tanked.

We are both engineers. When and where we bought real estate has an effect on how much buying power we have. A couple in the same profession, just starting out today, would struggle financially at the outset, but may stabilize fairly quickly. Dh's company offers starting salaries in the $60k range, and that's a good chunk for one part of a couple's income. The second income becomes even more helpful, though adding kids to the mix tends to be financially painful too.

Ten years ago, I was paying $1200/month for my two kids- one infant and one toddler- to go to full time daycare. That was more than twice my mortgage.

[Doremus]

39. Starting salary in the $60s .... c'mon.

I think that's more than sufficient for a couple of kids. And you say they'd need more???

A lot depends on where you live I guess.
Here, $60k is more than enough to raise kids and have mom at home to raise them if desired. :shrug:

[MissB]

51. It does depend on where you live.

When I left my career, dh was making slightly more than that. Our mortgage was costing us $400/month. We soon refinanced to a 15 year, effectively nearly doubling our mortgage payment.

Housing prices have shot up considerably, and even though prices have dropped significantly, you'll never find a house - family sized say two or three bedrooms- close enough for a decent commute for under $300k.

I know what my mortgage payment is, and I have a tiny mortgage in comparison.

Yeah, it can be done even on the west coast in a big city. But it's likely to be a struggle, starting out at least. Student loans, car payment, daycare if both parents work.

[ejpoeta]

3. careful shopping, coupons, planning ahead. only thing is,

we can't save money for college and stuff. we are just trying to get bills paid and have them clothed and ready for school right now. we also get WIC to help with milk, cheese etc. and HEAP has helped us with heating our house. we have needed help from food stamps over the years and currently have state health insurance because the insurance offered through my husband's work is the kind that has a $5000 deductible per person. i consider we are lucky. we just made the last payment on the house and the move. only thing we have is a car payment, a lawn mower payment and our credit cards.

[FSogol]

4. I'm an mechanical engineer and my wife is an accountant for a utility company.

She gets great medical benefits and we both have decent salaries. When our kids where young, my mother-in-law watched them for us. We would have never made it without free daycare. Now, the oldest is in college and I have to do part-time consulting work to keep up with the bills.

[exboyfil]

8. Wow I am a Mechanical Engineer

and my wife has not worked outside the home since before the kids were born (15 years ago now). I would like for her to go back to work to help on the bills but she refuses. We are doing fine though, and I think we have college covered without too much difficulty (it will be a state school). I think I am on track for having enough for four years of tuition for each kid. They will have to cover the rest.

The big thing is that I don't spend money on myself. I pack my own lunches, spend very little for beverages ($1 pops add up), do not have any expensive hobbies such as golf, have a simple $10/month Tracfone, use technology until it dies a natural death (such as my five year old $300 Emachine computer which I am typing on now), do not invest in the latest wizz bang stuff until it reaches cost maturity (my MP3 player which I use to listen to lectures from the library was under $25), resist the temptation to purchase a larger house, and frequently tell my kids no.

[NNN0LHI]

9. We almost bought a bigger house about five years ago. As an "investment"

Never lose money on that, right? Glad I changed my mind on that one.

Don

[PA Democrat]

22. Yeah, we paid off the mortgage on what we had originally viewed as a "starter"

instead of buying a bigger house. If we had a mortgage right now on top of college tuition and health insurance premiums, we'd be eating cat food.

[Odin2005]

45. I've never understood the whole "starter house" nonsense.

It screams "we will live in this perfectly decent home until we can get a monstrous decadent McMansion.

[mwooldri]

67. We're 35 and planning on buying our "forever" home.

You could call it a "starter home" if you like. It's not big. But it's got all we need.

If we need to have more room, we can build on to it (we're out in the sticks, land is zoned AG).

Now if you buy a home as a couple without kids - and it's a two-bedroom house, then that's definitely a "starter house", and if you have more than one child you will need to be moving, especially if one is a boy and one is a girl.

[FSogol]

48. Your 2nd paragraph is identical to my life.

My sons are 4 years apart in age so I only have to pay for college one kid at a time. The first one is doing two years at community college and then transferring to a state school (VA has an automatic acceptance program for students who do it that way.)

I don't see the frugality as anything unique, my parents raised us that way and are still living a debt free life.

BTW, there are a lot of mechanical engineers here at DU.

[eilen]

5. People do it

they buy used-- garage sales and clearance sales for clothing. They might skimp on school supplies, school pictures. Nursing instead of formula. People had kids and raised them during the Depression.

The big danger I can see is trying to go without some form of daycare. I used to keep an eye on my younger brother and sister when I was 10-12. Other parents would drop the kids off at a public park in the mornings during the summer. Now parents get charged criminally for doing this. My mother used to be left alone in NYC-- getting herself to lessons (dance, voice, acting) and Dr. appts. at 8-9 years old by herself and when she was home she knew she could call on a neighbor woman. Daycare is expensive for young parents today. It is not that I don't believe that daycare workers don't earn the small pay they get, it is just very difficult for young parents (and not so young parents) to pay. My husband and I would work split shifts.

I couldn't afford a sitter today at $5/hr. I used to get $1.

I am contemplating passing on Senior H.S. portraits this year. I figure I could go to Sears and get one sitting for the proof for the yearbook or maybe just use the school photographer.

[knitter4democracy]

29. My students had some great ideas for senior pictures.

They had a friend take some nice pics with a digital camera and got them developed on-line or at Walmart (or where was cheapest), just printing out what they needed and liked.

One's mom likes doing photography on the side and did her pics as her graduation present early, getting them put in a book (can do this on Kodak's site or at Walgreens, etc.) that looked very, very nice.

Most of my students didn't go to a professional photographer at all. They just set a budget for printing costs, got some nice photos, and kept it simple. The other new fad I saw was putting the open house graduation party info on a photo card, which cut down the invitation costs by half.

[Odin2005]

46. Here in Fargo you are requred by LAW not to leave a child unattended untill the age of 12!

That's fucking INSANE. I only learned about that when a coworker talking about dropping his 11yo son off at daycare. I was home by myself when I was 8. and wander around town with friends when i was 7.

[Epiphany4z]

6. I try not to ask myself

how we do it...I just keep on keeping on....3 jobs between the two of us ..and we are out of any cushion we had...a month behind on the mortgage no savings...and scared to death of Januarys health insurance hike.

[safeinOhio]

7. It's easy.

Max out the credit cards. Buy lottery tickets and then vote Republican because God knows you wouldn't want to pay any tax on all of that unearned fantasy money.

[madokie]

10. With a lot of help from parents

or thats what we've been doing with our Son and his wife. Their house and car payments are it for them, we pick up the rest. That way we know that our grand daughter is getting what she needs without it looking like a hand out from us. Son bought a late model trailer and put it on property we own that the utilities are in our name so the bills for the electric and water already come to us. We passed down our old pellet stove, (three years old,) that we really didn't like anyway (that they just love) and bought a new one for us (that we just love,) and when we buy pellets we just make sure we buy enough for them too. Another bonus is they don't have to worry with lawn tools, mowers, tillers etc cause we already have them and our son has been using them for years anyway. I realize not all parents can do all this but thats how our kids are doing it, otherwise it would be dire straits for them I'm sure. As it is they can live a little of the American Dream too and we don't mind. It all works out great, we have our grand daughter living next door to us so she gets to spend a lot of time with 'gramma' and me and I must 'admit she has us spoiled rotten.' Grand daughter has never had to go to a sitter as she has her two gramma's to take care of that when needed. DIL works three days a week with 'nanna' keeping grand daughter two days a week and us one as my wife still has a 5 day a week job so she just goes in later on the day we have our grand daughter here. Our son and wife take their daughter with them everywhere they go, mother took her to work with her for the first 6 months or so until she started requiring more time than her boss could afford her employee taking.

To us this is us living the American Dream too. Family first

[a la izquierda]

36. I'm in my last year of a PhD.

My uncle in particular helps us out quite a bit. We've barely made it this summer, but we're reprioritizing. No more satellite TV, instead we'll watch some stuff on the computer and save on electric and satellite bills. That will save us quite a bit per month.

The government helps too (student loans), and I'll be paying that off until I drop dead. At least if I die first, my husband won't get those bills.

[madokie]

47. prioritizing is the word

I think you're well on your way to many years of happiness by the decisions you're making today.

We don't do anything without looking at the big picture. Sometimes things cost us more today so that we can save lots more as time goes on. Just in our decision back in the winter of '91 when we bought our first pellet stove for heat we're over 4000 bucks to the good even though we've purchased two other pellet stoves since then. Our other options for heat was electric or propane. Wood but thats such a hassle that we didn't even figure it in our decision. As my mother would say poor people have poor ways, took me a long time to realize what she was saying but I do today. We have friends who bring in more money than we do but to look at us compared to them we seem to be the richer because we pay attention to how and what we spend our money on. We don't take 2 and 3 thousand dollar vacations, we stay home and enjoy what we have here in our own state and use the money on upgrades and renovations which actually saves us money in the long run. No credit cards nor high interest loans. If we do make a loan we most times use our savings or something we own outright as collateral because they will loan the money to us for 2 and 3 cents on the dollar. If something happens and we need that savings its simple to then go get a higher interest loan but so far that hasn't happened.

[HughBeaumont]

11. I have one. That will be all.

Getting fired even ONCE changes you big time. That happened in May 2001, during the FIRST Bewsh recession. Luckily it happened during summer, so I had some good times off. And luckily, I found another job in 5 months, which I still have to this day. But in the back of my mind I was worrying - "How are these bills going to get paid?" On one income, it was a contest. You pretty much pay bills, make sure the kid eats, and that's that. No trips, no going out to eat, none of that.

A major expense that was taken off was day care. Man, I'm seriously in the wrong business, because this thing's a racket. We paid almost as much as half of a good apartment rental every month before he became a latchkey kid.

I think there are a few times when expenses for a child run huge - from 1 to 10 and from 17 to 18. I'm thinking he's going to have to pay for at least part of his college and the goal is to get him through without student loans, so he'll be commuting. That's the smart way to do it nowadays; ignore the "cut the cord" jokers and realize that going away to school will mean he'll be super screwed with thousands in student loan debt when he graduates.

I sealed the baby machine off in 2007. What inspired me was one of the wife's teammates got pregnant at 38. There is no way I was mentally or financially ready to be a father of a newborn, and working at a bank and watching financial channels, I was really starting to see the warning signs of 2008 and pretty much knew that Bewsh's Reagan Redux economizin' would crash like a massive house of cards quickly. I knew that if I had a second kid, I'd be looking at no vacations, no home improvements, college payments for two children instead of one (that's the BIG expense in my book), no "me-time", a canyon of debt that I wouldn't be able to meet versus one that's somewhat doable, and absolutely NO chance of retirement whatsoever.

The fact is, life simply isn't like it was in the 60's-70's. Unless you have an established and secure career, you pretty much have no job security and raises aren't something to be expected anymore.

People who tell the only-child parents "COME on. You KNOW you want another one" just aren't grounded in reality. They're harkening back to a time where wages actually met the cost of living and things "will just all work out". The truth is, they DON'T always work out, especially not now. You still have to pay for every kid you have, and recent cost studies have measured that a newborn born in the modern era will cost the parents (factoring time value of money) anywhere from 150 to 300 thousand dollars from the time of birth to 18 years old . . . NOT counting college costs. Anyone got that money tree in their back yard? Because I sure don't. SNIP.

So yeah, the answer would be that unless the parents are making some decent bank between them, I don't know how someone with 2 to four kids is doing it. We're not exactly paupers and there's no way I'd be able to have two kids. I'd be financially screwed beyond repair.

[NNN0LHI]

12. Hope you have no regrets about that like I do

I have two wonderful daughters but one of my neighbors has the son that I always wish I had.

Never cared for the kids parents but the kid is about the nicest kid anyone could ever ask for. He spends all day outside working in the yard with his dad and acts like he just enjoys spending time with his father. Never complains even if it is doing hard yard work together. The kid always has a smile and waves at everyone that goes by and likes talking to everyone. Just a great kid.

Wish we would have had one just like him.

Don

[exboyfil]

14. I really don't miss not having a son

I was always bookish growing up, and I think that I relate well to my bookish daughters. I did get a lot of "now are you going for the boy?" when my girls where toddlers but that has faded. As I think about the financial, emotional, and time commitment related to having a child, then I can't imagine trying to pull it off with a third one. I like spending time with them, but I have my own life and as they grow and move away from me I don't think I will have any issues. Still will worry about them though. They are great girls - smart and both interested in science. Unfortunately, they don't have top notch quantitative skills which migh limit some of their options (and probably lock them out of any merit money). The youngest wants to be a doctor so she can stop at Calculus I. The oldest - well I don't know - she would make a fantastic engineer if she can get through the 2 1/2 years of math which she could on pure work ethic.

[madokie]

30. Kinda sorta adopt him

nothing wrong with loving another's child. I mean theres limits but I think you know what I mean.

[NNN0LHI]

49. No I am now too old to do the stuff I want to be doing with my 2 grandsons

After an hour or two playing with them I am ready for a nap now. Too old.

This is something I regret I didn't do in my 20's when I could have done and enjoyed the kinds of things boys do. Sports, camping and just going places and doing things.

Whats that saying? You can never go back ...

One of my daughters was a Tom boy so I guess I was lucky there. She already has my Made In The USA Wilson A2010 baseball glove that I had since the 1960's. So I guess everything is all good.

Don

[madokie]

52. With a dad like you I know 4 very fortunate people

No make that 5 as the mother/grandmother is too
:hi:

[w8liftinglady]

13. keep in the back of your mind the worse-case scenario...my story

Husband left,filed for divorce after son's first tour of Iraq(He had some kind of breakdown,I believe)...and left me with 2 boys at home.He got a dwi,lost job and worked odd jobs after he left,so I got by on my RN salary.Lost house after 2 years,because it really was too expensive...about the same time son was doing 2nd tour.I began a relationship with a nice nurse I worked with.The boys and I ended up moving there.After a couple of years...I began having seizures.Docs couldn't figure out why."Boyfriend" kicked boys and I out,as boys were 11 and 17,and a pain in the ass,now.My Dad died shortly thereafter,and his meager funds went to take care of my mom,who's on oxygen.I was placed on long-term disability at work,ended up having brain surgery,why trying to maintain some kind of normalcy for my kids....while being paid 50% of my salary(actually 1/4 of what I was used to in the beginning).went through every bit of savings I had,as that was just the way it was to pay bills.I was lucky...my surgery 2.5 months ago cured me.I'll be able to return to work in 3 months,per neurologist.I am broke and trying to get middle boy into college-he took a year off to take care of me..at 19.Oldest boy has ptsd from army,but is also getting ready for college.Youngest is getting ready for JHS and football.
Is it easy?No.Did I want to just give it all up?Many times...but you hang in there,find someone to talk to(You guys are my someone)...and life goes on.
It'll be ok.

[Divernan]

19. I've always enjoyed your posts.

Sorry to hear what you've had to deal with. You are a survivor, and I'm glad of that.

[w8liftinglady]

21. well...It's taught me to live a little below my "standards"

and save for a rainy day,so to speak.it was a good lesson.

[happy_liberal]

68. I must say, you are an inspiration!

I have read so many of your 'letters to the editor'...and to think that this is what you were going through!

Facing so much adversity and still be looking out for everyone else.

Thank GOD! you are healed because we certainly need more like you.

[w8liftinglady]

69. you made me cry-in a good way!Thank you :)

[Silent3]

15. How does that square with this other thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8939295&mesg_id=8939295

Some here are seeing inflation, others deflation.

Regional differences? Differences in what these different people buy most? Perceptual bias?

I'm sure I could go find some government statistics on inflation rates, but what's the point? Anyone who felt that the real situation is different than the stats say would simply call "bullshit" and that would be that. :)

[spinbaby]

24. It depends on what you're buying

If you're buying real estate, cars, or clothing, you're definitely seeing deflation. If you're paying health insurance and buying food you're seeing inflation. Generally I've noticed that our necessities are getting more expensive and optional stuff less expensive.

[Silent3]

27. I notice when gas goes up and down...

...and the price of big-ticket items stands out to me, but I must confess that I seldom really pay much attention to the price of most grocery items. I'm fortunate not to be living near the edge -- in fact, I saved about 40% of my gross income last year -- so I tend to just buy the food and other grocery items I want without thinking much about it.

It would be useful perhaps in the government kept separate inflation stats (and perhaps they do) for basic life necessities, weighted for the types of expenditures that middle and low income earners are most likely to face.

[babydollhead]

16. we 5 survive on $39,000 year...

when they were small, food stamps and babysitting other peoples kids. Thrift stores, yard sales hand-me-downs for clothes and toys.

[LadyJaneGrey]

17. Alot of creative ideas

I had 5 boys! It wasn't easy. 1st I work the graveyard shift and my now ex worked days, so we never had to pay day care. 2nd we never had cable we had an xbox, got movies from the library, played board games, read alot. 10 bucks a month gets me online from my cell, I havent had a land phone line since 1990. 3rd both my ex and I live close enough to walk to work (me) or bus it for him. So a tank of gas usually lasts a month just going to the store and othes chore. 4th I bake alot! And I mean alot. I have a sourdough starter so we have fresh bread every daz. 8 bucks for 25 lbs of flour and we have fresh bread, homemade cookies, tortillas, bread, cinnamon rolls etc, For two weeks. Most of my meals are homemade as well. No store bought sauces in my house. We also can alot. Buy our meat from butchers a side at a time. When dad gets lucky and gets a deer in hunting season he gives us all but the steaks (he likes those). My kitchen window is full of herbs that I dont have to buy. U get the pic. Heck
If I could have a garden I wouldnt have to go to the store for hardly anything. My mom and I also knit and sew. All of my scrubs are home made. I make my own cough syrup (onions and honey works great). It just requires looking at things a different way. Oh my kids call me a hippy. What ever works.

[w8liftinglady]

23. you remind me of a lady I used to work with

she was very resourceful-she's the one who really taught me how to use coupons...

[sufrommich]

26. This is the way people used to live. I admire your

resourcefulness. This era of bigger is better is killing us.

[LadyJaneGrey]

62. Thank u so much.

I think you are right. I also think that people have gotten used to the ease of things, through no fault of their own. I was lucky that my mother and grandma taught me how to do it, not everybody is so blessed. But if u need a good recipe, chances are I have it.

[happy_liberal]

73. 25 lbs of flour and we have fresh bread, homemade cookies, tortillas, bread, cinnamon rolls

me too! Truly the way to save...and know what they heck is in your food!

but dang, where do I get a good sourdough starter? I tried to start one myself but it didn't work out so well.

[old mark]

20. There is a family up the block from us...2 kids, one in high school, one in a trade school

for diesel engine mechanics...Mom works as an aide in a elderely care place, dad works in a factory. They own an old row house and 2 older cars. Neither parent has education beyond high school, and I have no idea how they make ends meet,yet they are pretty well off compared to some others who live around here...

I know a few people in their 20's, and NOT ONE of them makes a real living...not even enough to rent an apartment on their own.

I don't know what will happen to them.
I was very broke for much of my life, and I understand the frustration, depression and anger that comes with it-working shit jobs to eat, taking orders from idiots, etc...

I feel very bad for a lot of people, and I don't understand why the politicians can't see their suffering...or else don't give a shit about them...


mark

[babsbunny]

25. Kids can't continue their education past High School

More Kids are living at home much longer, or are returning home.

[mwooldri]

31. My sons will have education beyond High School.

We will just have to do it a different way.

I would suggest to my sons to do a "gap year" between High School and Community College, can do anything, volunteering, a low-end job, something. Go to a 2 year Community College rather than a 4 year University. Thus my sons would graduate with an Associates degree. They could then go to work equipped with this, or gain admittance to a 4 year college to get a bachelors degree.

We can support with housing at home, food, transportation and communication tools, but the opportunity for our sons to go to some far flung college and have semi-independent living may not be an option, unless we get lucky with scholarships and such.

[mwooldri]

28. Two incomes, two kids here.

We do "make it" but there are a lot of compromises.

Firstly, housing. I can say we own our home outright, but we have to pay "lot rent" of $150/mo. Yes, welcome to trailer living. It may be old, there is some work to be done on the trailer right now, but it is ours, and it keeps us dry, warm, cool, and has been doing this job well since 1986. The lot rent includes the water bill and allows us to use the communal dumpster for our household waste.

Secondly, I've been lucky @ work. Yes, I work for one of those "evil fortune 100 finance companies" (cannot say who here publically) but I have been getting pay raises. I get performance bonuses. Overtime comes available quite often these days. I did not get "let go" due to a reduction in workforce. The benefits here are excellent compared to the American "average" - almost on par with the European "average".

Thirdly: child care - We are reliant more on extended family and our friends for child care. Instead of paying a lot of money to a childcare business, we work it out with family instead. It benefits our kids because they get time with extended family plus more individualized care, it benefits the individuals who are minding our children as they get extra money, and we benefit from the much reduced cost. I also work a compressed workweek (4x10 hour shifts) with one day on a weekend... this means there is two days off in the week where I can take care of my own boys.

Yes, we are heavily "leveraged" right now, but this will come to pass. Neither of us see a job loss on the horizon (both our employers are hiring heavily - but being very picky though), the vast majority of our debt is "good debt" (government backed student loan debt - UK & US for me, US for my wife), and although we have used finance to purchase both our vehicles, one vehicle is close to being paid off.

We have even "made it" with just my income in a rented home, paying two car payments, and my wife being home full time.

However it has *always* been paycheck to paycheck for us. With changes at work, it is likely I will have the opportunity to save again... but yes there are times close to payday when we will not fill our gas tanks all the way, we will not go out do a big shopping trip, we will not eat out (we tend to eat out a lot right now, it has its pluses and minuses) and we stay very close to home. But then I know we can manage our money better, we are making good money between the two of us, but we do need to get our costs under control.

[kiva]

32. Curious about your home -

when I first looked at buying a house I thought about a mobile home but the lot rents here are high - $450 to $550 per month; have lots in your park went up since you bought?

[mwooldri]

53. Whole real estate market in our bit of NC is flat.

since about 1999.

This includes rental rates - for apartments, homes and yes, mobile home lots, of course when adjusted for inflation.

We're not in a mobile home park. Speaking for ourselves only, the lot rent for our place has not increased as far as we know for 10+ years. Always $150 a month. We have only been here in this place 3 years but the former owner is family and the landlady is considered an extended family friend. However our landlady has said that if we sell the trailer on to someone else and they move in, she will increase the lot rent to $200/mo. That would be a big increase but would be about the same when it was set at that rate those years ago given for inflation.

Same goes for normal houses too: in 1999 $90k would have bought you a very nice townhome. Today $110k-$120k buys you the equivalent.

[kiva]

61. Ah, makes sense that way.

In Las Vegas the house prices have tanked even more than the national norm, but I imagine that the parks are stuck paying the inflated prices, then have to pass them on to the renters.

Right now $100,000 (about $700 with a minimum down) will buy a lot of house, but by the time you buy a mobile home then put it in a park the payments would actually be more.

[FirstLight]

33. simple...we live in poverty

three kids, 2 ex's and no child support...limited education and spotty employment...I have often said if it wasn't for my mom, my kids would never have shoes!

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. 40 million people - about 15% of the population, get food stamps.

That's how they do it.

[Iggo]

35. I make between 15 and 20 bucks an hour...

...and I can't afford to live by myself.

BY MYSELF!!!

I have no idea how people with kids do it.

[NNN0LHI]

50. That's it right there. That's what I was trying to say

I would hate like hell to be trying to support a family in this mess.

Don

[mwooldri]

64. Simple. Government Assistance.

Iggo, your part of the world is expensive - at least for housing, it's twice what it is here in NC.

At $15/hr, in your part of the world, you are on a very low to possibly even extremely low income group. That $15/hr here in NC puts you in the low to moderately low income group. Add family members and if the income remains for that family unit $15/hr, then all the government assistance programs come into play.

A family of four with one adult working on $15/hr would be entitled to a lot of government programs in Los Angeles County. Section 8 would pay the rent and possibly some of the utilities too (a family is not to spend more than 40% of their adjusted gross income on rent and utilities). Food stamps would become an entitlement, as would Medicaid.

However I live in NC. It's drastically cheaper to live here. Median income is lower, but the cost of a house is half or less than half the cost in Los Angeles County when taking into account equivalent type of housing. $15/hr here is not very low income, somewhat between low and moderate income, depending on what part of the state (in some counties $15/hr is more than the median income). Thus on this you cannot qualify for Section 8, food stamps, Medicaid or anything like that, definitely not if you are single. I know, because when my wife was expecting with our first son, and she had to quit her job because it became a difficult pregnancy (and subsequently our oldest son needed special care - won't go into too much here) - it was effectively a family of three... I made about $16.50 an hour, and my wife was making $0 an hour, and for that we "barely" qualified for WIC. No chance of Section 8, foodstamps, etc.

Some people also game the system. Single parents may at some point later get involved in a relationship and that other individual moves in with the single parent and his/her children. They do not marry. They file separate taxes. The parent with the children does not declare to the relevant authorities that a new person has joined the household and brings in earnings of $X. Therefore if you have this combination, you have essentially a family unit where one adult member is essentially disregarded for calculating income for the family. If the single parent has the lesser income, is already entitled to Section 8, food stamps, free child care, free school meals, and other government programs.... they stay on those programs, but the other "ghost family member" is able to contribute to the family - nice toys and stuff for the kids, nice clothing and accessories and other things for their significant other. Sorry but my wife has seen it first hand when claiming the WIC with our firstborn... people coming to the benefits office being dropped off from luxury vehicles (or even better - driving them TO the benefits office), they look glammed up to anything - nice nails, great hair, etc... but they're making $8/hr at the Wal-Mart and have to look after 4 kids and the daddies have all ran off and she does not know where any of them are. There is a disconnect here - now trust me this is the extreme end of things, but since my wife has WITNESSED it in person, I'm sure that it is more common at the lower end of the spectrum. My wife has once joked that we'd be better off if we got a divorce - she'd be able to claim benefits for her and the kids and alimony from me. It's probably true!

Anyway this has got to stop somewhere, so here it does.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

37. well. I just got invited to a high school graduation

party for the eldest of a family with 2 incomes.....both work, at nothing fancy jobs. It's at a state park (free), with hot dogs, (provided by them-cheap) and potluck (provided by us). In otherwords, cut back, make do, look for cheap, and look for free.

[mmonk]

38. High income families.

The rest borrow.

[seabeyond]

40. we were making enough to save, save, save. now we dont save, but we arent

dipping into our saving. that is how it works.

told hubby, three years he hasnt gotten a raise. this is the year, for cost of living wage increase.

[Odin2005]

41. My sister has 2 kids. She runs a daycare out of her home and her husband...

...works road construction.

They live out in the country and grow veggies and have a few animals.

[Contrary1]

42. Not sure they are. Opened my email this morning and read this

message from Freecycle:

"With a lost of job and losing our house. We have to move to a very small
apt. So we have to give up a our pet. He has been neutered and will need
his shots updated. He loves kids and stormy weather. He is very loveable
and has been around a child with autism. He is potty trained. Please
help give him a good home so we can be stressed free."

And there are millions more just like them. I'm closing in on 60, and have never seen anything like this.

[HillWilliam]

43. I've been asking the same question

And for the life of me I can't figure it. I make a decent living, but my partner is disabled. We've cut everything we can cut and we're always looking for more. I have a decent job, but it's a 55-mile each way commute. There's nothing else in the area as stable AND in my particular end of my industry. To switch would almost guarantee two things: a cut in pay and a loss of the job security I have now.

I traded a $950/month rent in town for a $575/month mortgage in the country. (We searched 3 years to find a foreclosure in good shape with lots of land; got extremely lucky and found it. I got it with my VA benefit.) I garden my ass off and hubby cans/dries/preserves his ass off. That supplements our table a good bit. We've cut our electric bill from $400/month to around $150/month. We insulated, changed to LEDs (those have gotten much better) and spend on about nothing. No matter how much we save, something always comes along and gets it.

I make far less than I did ten years ago, but I have a modicum of security. BUT: My insurance benefit got cut way down. I now have a longer drive since our office moved. Gas prices have sneaked up a bit. It's a death of a thousand cuts. I work with 4 other people who have kids and ginormous mortgage payments. I have no idea how they live.

[justabob]

59. death by a thousand cuts indeed

The only reason I am not in the streets is that I have some family help for housing. I work about 25-30 hrs a week and make anywhere from 10-20 dollars an hour. (I wait tables, so it varies wildly) Sometimes I make enough, but most times I don't. I have cut down to only my cell phone and car note, plus whatever food and day to day stuff, and I am still not making it..... everything I buy seems like it gets more expensive every time I have to buy it.

[aikoaiko]

44. Chicken and chicken by product bologne.

:-)

[proteus_lives]

54. One of my cousins has six kids.

Budgeting is an art-form to him.

[Dappleganger]

55. We have four kids.

We used to only have two, but our income level jumped up dramatically so another two made sense at the time. Now, not so much (although I wouldn't trade it for anything).

My husband is a mechanical/manufacturing engineer w/a masters degree and lots of experience. We have endured four major layoffs, three of which set us back financially quite significantly. The last layoff (which recently ended) has been the worst.

I have had to explain to the teenagers (three of them) that we bring in close to 40% less income than a decade ago with huge increases in the food and utilities bills. I shop for us using sales and coupons and do a decent job of making it profitable for me to stay at home, but we are at the point that I need to go to work so we can afford to pay for college and braces, as well as boost our savings which we had to raid during the last layoff.

Today the oldest son (rising senior) and I went back-to-school shopping and we spent less than I've spent in years on clothes, but that's because he doesn't need much. He lost a bunch of weight and had saved his clothes from a couple of years ago so he's wearing those.

We used to not live paycheck to paycheck but we certainly do now, and go without things we used to buy regularly. We are definitely worse off than both of our parents were in this part of their life, too. We can't afford vacations except driving to see family, pretty much.

I am telling my kids to only have one or two if that and to not do it until they are 30. IMO things are really bleak right now.

[jxnmsdemguy65]

56. The only folks that I know that have kids are those involved in the medical industrial complex.

Period. I'm 44.

[uponit7771]

57. We USED to pay over 1500 a month for 2 kids (twins) for day care in my area, it's beyon disgusting

[flamingdem]

60. You couldn't get a two for one deal, lol! nt

[WCIL]

58. Here is how my sister and her husband do it

They have 2 sons, 12 and 7. They live in a trailer and have 2 $1500 cars. They don't have a lot of family time, as she works nights and he works days in order not to have the day care expense. My BIL was out of work for more than a year, and both sets of parents had to step in and help. His father paid their utility bills and my parents bought my nephew's glasses and all the shoes/clothing for both boys for almost 2 years. My sister and BIL each have one "nice" outfit and a few other clothes to get them through the work week. The boys are begging for a pet but they can't afford one. For entertainment they hit yard sales and thrift shops.

Things are getting better for them, and they are not in as rough a shape as many of their friends. The older boy knows things are hard and is a pretty good sport about it. They younger one doesn't really remember any other life.

[alcibiades_mystery]

63. I have two kids, age four and sixteen months

It's not easy. Let me qualify: as a family, we make more than we've ever made. The major drag is daycare, which runs us...you ready?...$2000 a month. Basically, if the kids were in public school, we'd have disposable income of roughly $1500 a month more, given that we'd still have to pay for after-school care. It's not the groceries. We eat well, and still only pay out maybe $150 a week in groceries, and that sometimes includes diapers and wipes, and always includes beer(:-)). We eat out with the kids at kid-friendly local (not chain) restaurants occasionally - that runs about $35-$40. Otherwise, we almost never go out, since babysitting ads $40-$60 to anything we might do while out (how's $140 for dinner and a movie?). It's that damn daycare. We can't wait until the older one is in public school, since that will add $1000 a month to our income, essentially.

[mwooldri]

66. Daycare kills it... it truly does.

Daycare here isn't as expensive as that ($2k a month??? $500/wk for two kids?? Is this some real posh daycare??? I know some really exclusive daycares in our area that don't charge this much...) but it does take a huge chunk of change out of your spending power. But then that's the price you pay to have kids.

Maybe your neck of the woods is expensive for daycare. That's all I can put it down to. Having the kids your age around here at a "bible-thumping" daycare wouldn't even touch $1k a month, go secular and then you'd top $1k/mo at a top-of-the-line daycare.

Even then that's expensive. So we have used what resources we have - extended family and friends - who could do with extra cash and have the ability, love and time to take care of our kids. That has cut costs for us, along with my funky work schedule (I work a 4x10 schedule with Sundays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays off) means we only need daycare 3 days a week.

[alcibiades_mystery]

70. Posh? Nope...that's standard rate for run-of-the-mill centers

Chicago. Demand outstrips supply. Full time for the 4 yr old is $440 a week, for the 16 mth old, $575 a week.

[Synicus Maximus]

65. Sale the kids?

[Skittles]

71. I don't know either, but I admire them

I also help my coworkers with kids by covering for them....a lot

[Lorien]

72. You got me. I was in a grocery store today and came out with nothing more

than a small bottle of juice to drink. I just couldn't afford anything healthy in the place. I've just been buying whatever is on sale at Costco every month and eating the same damn thing every day. This past week it's been veggie burgers with fresh organic spinach. Every day for a week-but at least it's healthy! I just can't afford to buy anything at regular prices. I can't imagine how a family of four survives-especially if either or both parents are unemployed!