Mosque near Ground Zero being developed as planned

[Jeffersons Ghost]

We're not budging, say WTC mosque bigs
By SALLY GOLDENBERG

Last Updated: 4:32 AM, August 12, 2010

Developers of the proposed mosque near Ground Zero aren't biting on Gov. Paterson's offer to find a new site for the controversial project, the governor said yesterday.

"I think that they would like to stay where they are," the governor said, one day after offering public land for the proposed site, which has sparked a national outcry for its proximity to the World Trade Center.

"I certainly respect that and I certainly respect them. How much more foresighted would it have been if the imam who is the developer of the project had been willing to hear what we actually were talking about?" Paterson asked. He said most opponents of the mosque are not trying to trample on religious freedoms, but have an emotional reaction over being "badgered over the last decade" by the woes that followed Sept. 11.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/we_re_not_budging_say_wtc_mosque_MsqayYpDnj0fDpTsyxXVEO#ixzz0wOkKPvTu

[dipsydoodle]

1. Good

.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

10. I wish they'd get it built and stop fussing about it

[6000eliot]

2. It ISN'T a fucking mosque!

It's an Islamic cultural center. Is it too much to ask the news media to get this straight?

[dipsydoodle]

3. They do so to encourage attention

Wankers.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

4. it's a pro-war propaganda tool...

calling it a mosque builds religious conflict and reminds people of 9/11, which is supposed to bolster support for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[MajorChode]

13. Even the Imam and his wife who are building it have called it a mosque

The Imam (and his wife) who are behind the project are building it because he has outgrown his current mosque. There may be a lot of other things going on in the building as well, but it most certainly will contain a mosque and that is the principle reason behind the project.

[BrklynLiberal]

18. Did you get a personal note about this mailed to your home in Texas?

Those of us who actually live here in the city got this info....

Cordoba House - New York City

Why the Cordoba House?

Cordoba House is a Muslim-led project which will build a world-class facility that promotes tolerance, reflecting the rich diversity of New York City. The center will be community-driven, serving as a platform for inter-community gatherings and cooperation at all levels, providing a space for all New Yorkers to enjoy.

This proposed project is about promoting integration, tolerance of difference and community cohesion through arts and culture. Cordoba House will provide a place where individuals, regardless of their backgrounds, will find a center of learning, art and culture; and most importantly, a center guided by universal values in their truest form - compassion, generosity, and respect for all.

The site will contain tremendous amounts of resources that otherwise would not exist in Lower Manhattan; a 500-seat auditorium, swimming pool, art exhibition spaces, bookstores, restaurants - all these services would form a cultural nexus for a region of New York City that, as it continues to grow, requires the sort of hub that Cordoba House will provide.

hmmmm no where did I see the word Mosque used by the Imam or his wife..

Wow..here is an article from December 09...let's see..where is that word "mosque"?

Oh yes.HERE it is ..

The location is not designated a mosque, but rather an overflow prayer space for another mosque, Al Farah at 245 West Broadway in TriBeCa, where Imam Feisal is the spiritual leader.

BTW..THAT mosque has been there for over 25 years......and may be just as close to the WTC as the new community center.

Here is the entire article if you care to read it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/nyregion/09mosque.html?_r=1

[MajorChode]

21. I wasn't aware that living in NYC entitled you to omnipotence

I guess other New Yorkers and Muslims the world over didn't get the memo to stop calling it a mosque:

The mayor has called it a mosque on numerous occasions:
http://manhattan.ny1.com/content/top_stories/122239/bloomberg-repeatedly-defends-mosque-by-wtc-site

The Muslim Writer's Guild of America calls it a mosque:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harris-zafar/ground-zero-mosque-a-musl_b_651637.html

Al Jazeera calls it a mosque:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/08/20108323348309300.html

Islamtoday calls it a mosque:

Rauf and Khan have said Park51 — envisaged as a 15-story structure, including a mosque, cultural center and auditorium — will promote greater interfaith dialogue. The Islamic center would be open to all visitors to demonstrate that Muslims are part of their community.

http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-230-3735.htm

The Muslim Observer calls it a mosque:
http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=6643

The Muslim Public Affairs Council calls it a mosque:
http://www.mpac.org/article.php?id=1176

The lead developer of the project calls it a mosque:

Sharif el-Gamal, lead developer of the Park 51 project and member of the Jewish community center in upper Manhattan told Haaretz he did not expect the attention they have been receiving as he had been trying to buy the building for five years with this intention to build the center. "I’ve been looking for almost 10 years within this vicinity. It’s not easy to find real estate in New-York."

El-Gamal, who has a Jewish sister-in-law, added that "the mosque will be a small component of a larger facility and it will be run as a separate non-profit. There will be a gym, a pool, restaurant. A spa, multi-use facilities, and also a September 11 memorial space to honor the victims."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/ground-zero-mosque-imam-thanks-u-s-jews-for-support-1.305883

For the record, I could care less if they call it a mosque or a ping-pong palace, or where they build it. But pretending that a "prayer room" that holds 2,000 people is not a mosque, is a bit asinine. If you want to keep pretending it isn't, more power to you.

[NeedleCast]

45. It's a mosque in the same way the YMCA is a church

which is to say, it isn't one.

[MajorChode]

47. 2,000 people show up to the YMCA to pray every Sunday?

I wasn't aware of that.

Thanks for enlightening me.

Cheers!

[Karenina]

5. The opponents of the community center

"have an emotional reaction over being "badgered over the last decade" by the woes that followed Sept. 11."

Now THAT'S RICH! :rofl:

[AndyA]

6. I agree that the folks involved in this community center have the right to put it wherever

they want to put it.

But I do think it's a bit insensitive of them to not consider that some people will be upset by their actions. I'll bet the place is nothing but trouble once it opens. Vandalism, bullying people outside as they come and go, I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't burned down. People are crazy.

This is just asking for trouble. Yes, they have every right to do it, but they should realize it's going to be a problem from now on.

[annabanana]

9. I doubt that most of the people raising the biggest ruckus live

within 30 miles of ground zero. The community board unanimously accepted the proposal.

The whole nontroversy is being stoked by the professional Hate'nFearMongers®

[Jeffersons Ghost]

12. right...

calling it a "ground-zero mosque" builds religious conflict and reminds people of 9/11, which is supposed to bolster support for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[SOS]

14. Indeed

This "controversy" is manufactured elsewhere.
Here in NYC the mayor, the community board, the city council and landmarks have all given their support and approval.
It's just an election year tool to gin up the right-wingers.

Palin says that NYC is not part of the "real America".
So why is she so interested in a local zoning issue?

[BrklynLiberal]

17. 100% correct! this is not the first..and not the closest "mosque" to the WTC site.

As was posted here..There has been a mosque in the neighborhood for 40 years!!!!!!!!!

Not to mention that this is actually a multi-use, multi-cultural, multi-sponsored community center that happens to have a prayer room in it, in addition to the gym, the restaurants, the art galleries, the swimming pool, etc.

Oh..and another point..it is not a MEGA-anything. It will be dwarfed by the building around it and will comply with all community standards in appearance.

[Raineyb]

11. It's just asking for trouble for people to are affiliated with a neighborhood to

build a community center in THEIR neighborhood. Better to take the feelings of racist fuckwits who don't even live in the fucking area instead.

Are you for real?

Why are you advocating for kow-towing to racist assholes?

[AndyA]

24. Better check your meds.

They obviously need to be adjusted. :eyes:

[annabanana]

26. Sorry AndyA. .

I'm with Raineyb on this one..

(as are most NY City residents)

[AndyA]

28. It's OK to disagree, I just think it's foolish.

If the center is vandalized, or people are afraid to use it, what good will it do?

We've got people taking guns to Obama functions. Is it really too far fetched to think they won't do the same at this community center? How long before someone gets hurt or killed? A closed/damaged/destroyed center will be of little help to anyone.

You've heard the story about the snake in the grass? If you know what it is, why even play with it? :shrug:

[Posteritatis]

29. Most of the people howling in rage about it are nowhere near the site

The thing's fairly popular among the set of people who are actually anywhere near it.

And if that actually was a serious consideration, how far away from the WTC site should they be able to build before getting chastised for threatening the neighbors? After how many decades should they be permitted to? If you're establishing that the bigots should determine how things go here, I'm interested in your thoughts on the boundaries.

[AndyA]

31. I'm establishing no such thing.

Don't interject your thoughts on me. I said nothing about anyone else determining where the center should go. That decision is up to those opening the center.

New York does get a lot of tourists. The danger doesn't necessarily have to be from the neighbors. The WTC site is a big destination, and will be more so as the new tower goes up. What happened on 9/11 impacted the entire country, not just NYC.

[Posteritatis]

33. Sure you are

You're stating repeatedly that the mosque is intrinsically threatening or threatened for a variety of reasons, which implies that there would be circumstances under which you would not be objecting to its existence. What are those circumstances?

[AndyA]

35. Again, you're assuming things I did not say.

People have to take precautions in the world today. You tempt fate, it often bites you on the butt.

I don't think the people who want to open this center have what's best for their patrons at heart.

At any rate, it's apparent you just want to argue and that's tiring to me. We'll just have to see how things turn out, and if they open it and there are problems, well...who could have possibly predicted? :shrug: :eyes:

[Raineyb]

38. That is EXACTLY what you're establishing. You're advocating not putting up a building

because of something some racist asshole will do. There is no other word for what you're advocating other than capitulation. If people had that attitude back in the day we'd still be operating under separate but equal. This is MY city. I live here and there is no reason to not put up a building because of some racist asshole. Let the racists try their worst, it'll give the NYPD someone else to beat on rather than the usual residents for a change.

[annabanana]

30. If we change our behavior in case of what someone "might" do

then the terrorists have achieved their objective..

"Home of the Brave", and all that.

[Sea Witch]

43. Integration is often difficult, especially when fear is involved

I'm glad civil rights leaders in the 60's did not have your thought process or things never would have changed.

[Raineyb]

37. Check yourself. What you said was patently offensive. And I don't care if you don't like the fact

that I pointed it out.

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. yes and black folks should have stayed in the back of the bus..even if it was their right

to sit where they wanted..but they shouldn't have done anything that might of stirred up racist resentment - they were only bringing problems on themselves and asking for trouble. :eyes:

[AndyA]

23. You said it, I didn't.

:eyes:

[Raineyb]

39. That is exactly the argument you're putting forth.

And it's a disgusting argument to boot.

[pinboy3niner]

40. +100! The same things could have been said of civil rights marchers in the '60's

"But I do think it's a bit insensitive of them to not consider that some people will be upset by their actions."
"This is just asking for trouble. Yes, they have every right to do it, but they should realize it's going to be a problem...."
"How long before someone gets hurt or killed?"
"...(W)hat good will it do?"

[Sea Witch]

7. It is not a mosque it is a community center

The mosque is even closer to ground zero and has been there for 40 years.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

8. that's the part media forgets to mention

[BrklynLiberal]

16. You are absolutely correct!!

Shit-stirrers never let facts come between them and the chaos they want to create.

[MajorChode]

25. Webster disagrees

Main Entry: mosque
Pronunciation: \ˈmäsk\
Function: noun
Etymology: earlier mosquee, from Middle French, from Old Italian moschea, from Old Spanish mezquita, from Arabic masjid temple, from sajada to prostrate oneself, worship
Date: 1717

: a building used for public worship by Muslims

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mosque

The definition is not as complicated as some would like you to believe. The building might be a community center, it might be a public pool, it might be a ping-pong emporium, but when the plans include a room that an Imam can host as many as 2,000 people for communal prayers on Friday, I'm reasonably certain it also fits the definition of a mosque. YMMV.

[Sea Witch]

41. Cambridge High School has a muslim prayer room, is it no longer a HS?

It's not a mosque, it is a community center.

[MajorChode]

42. Read the definition again

[Sea Witch]

44. Some Airports have special places for Muslims to pray, are they Mosques?

[MajorChode]

46. Please list your definition of a mosque

Are you going to tell me your definition would not include a place hosted by an Imam and specifically intended for as many as 2,000 people to attend Muslim prayers on their sabbath? If so, I'd really love to hear your definition and what the basis of it is.

How many people do you think would make a special trip to the airport to pray? Many Muslims believe they must pray at certain intervals during the day, so such places are provided as a convenience. Even at that, such places could be considered a mosque just like a similar place for Christians could be considered a church even though that's not what people specifically think about when they think about those places.

[BrklynLiberal]

15. Good news....and Gov Paterson should have kept his nose out of this...

His interference did not good at all...and gave ammunition to the detractors.

What the hell was he thinking???

He said most opponents of the mosque are not trying to trample on religious freedoms, but have an emotional reaction over being "badgered over the last decade" by the woes that followed Sept. 11.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF???????????

Well maybe if the NYS and NYC..and even the Federal, govt had not allowed the site to be treated like a potential business location...and had treated it like the memorial and sancrosanct site it is...and had completed a tribute several years ago....instead of having us all wait more than ten years before we will see even the beginning of a tribute...there would not have been all this bullshit.
Every time I pass by where the WTC was, I cannot believe that after all these years..all I still see is a GAPING HOLE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dorian Gray]

22. Too true

that is NYC biggest shame. Allowing the gaping wound in the ground to fester for almost ten years.

[Scurrilous]

27. Indeed. n/t

[Scurrilous]

20. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Odin2005]

32. IT'S NOT A FUCKING MOSQUE!!!

[PufPuf23]

34. Good and American nt

[ljm2002]

36. The next time someone asks me my opinion of the "mosque at Ground Zero"...

...I am going to counter with my own question: if Ground Zero is such hallowed ground, then why, after 9 YEARS, has no memorial been built?

If that's the best we can do, then we ought to just STFU when someone actually goes ahead and builds something in that general area of Manhattan.