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OK, I am going to say it... We need a second stimulus.

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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:44 PM
Original message
OK, I am going to say it... We need a second stimulus.
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 01:46 PM by jsamuel
I know the Democrats don't want to talk about it right now, but it needs to be said. The economy flatlined (instead of crashing) with the first one. The census helped it look like we were actually gaining jobs, but it wasn't true.




We watered down the first stimulus in order to get it passed before Sen. Franken was sworn in and we only had 59 votes in the Senate. If we hadn't passed it, we would still be dropping, but watering it down is just keeping us afloat. If we want a real recovery, we need a second stimulus.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, we certainly do.
I'm dubious that we'll get one, since D.C. now seems to have fallen fully into the deficit-hawk framing. Which, if I recall, was why people were begging them to pass the full 1.5 T stimulus the first time -- the odds of achieving a 2nd round were low.
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Thav Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Grayson has a good technique for this
In his "War is making you Poor" bill - which eliminates the $157 billion extra money for the "wars" in 2011, and puts that toward eliminating tax on the first $35,000 (or 70k for joint filers) of income. With the rest going to pay down debt.

A nice boost to everyone, and a welcome break to those who need it - the middle and lower class.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Manufacturing Enhancement Act
Being signed today. And maybe people could get behind the Climate Change legislation which will also generate jobs. An agenda doesn't have to be labeled "stimulus" to create jobs and put money into a green economy.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/08/11/183000-manufa...
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. thanks
That link doesn't really say what it does beyond some very nondescript terms. Do you have a link that is a little more in depth?
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. U.S. Manufacturing Enhancement Act of 2010
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanks
Sorry, but I meant something a little more in depth but short of the original bill text. Like a news article getting into specifics... It would take me days to go through that link.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. No, We Don't.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. What do we need? (Curious.)
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SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. To face reality.
A second stimulus will, just as the first one did, kick the can down the road for a few months - THAT'S IT. Our system is broken and there simply is no fixing it in its current form. We can face this now, or let the right do it after the collapse.

It is long past time to stop fucking around.
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. I agree
we need a second round of stimulus and a true WPA style work program that literally puts people to work for the government. Rebuilding infrastructure and jump starting a nationwide switch to renewable energy would be best.
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hugo_from_TN Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. It needs to be much better designed than the last one.
Way too much local pork was included that did not produce jobs. The pigs were at the trough.

There were plenty of projects in there that were worthwhile on their face, but if they don't produce jobs they should not be in a stimulus package.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yes, badly. But everybody is going in the opposite direction.
That's disturbing. I never knew just how complete the Reagonomics thingy took hold.
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. When America stopped producing and sent production overseas, and...
turned to an economy based solely on consumption, it sealed its fate as a has-been nation. We cannot survive on an economy that merely consumes without producing anything of real value. The only good that another stimulus will do is to delay the inevitable collapse of the globalization empire, and a return to localized economies based on the actual production of things of value. We can't expect our economy to survive on the basis of selling each other intrinsically worthless paper on Wall Street and calling it "wealth".

The mistake in that graph is comparing this "recession" to past recessions. This is not your father's recession. This is the unwinding of a fundamentally flawed economic system based on make-believe Wall Street wealth instead of real industrial wealth. There will be no recovery from this one. No recovery, that is, until the whole Wall Street casino is seen for what it really is. Wall Street is supposed to be a way of financing industry, not a way of high-stakes gambling on intrinsically worthless paper. The whole rotten shceme needs to be shut down and replaced by a system of industrial finance based on real wealth.
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'd rec this if I could.
:thumbsup:
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Thav Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Well put.
It's time to institute disincentives to sending jobs out of the country. Not incentives to bring them back, but disincentives for having jobs out of the country that could be done in the country, putting Americans back to work.

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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. We really do
The economy is at a precipice and another stimulus jolt might wake it up. However, if deficit hawks get their way, we are guaranteed to double dip. The consequences of not doing another stimulus are dire.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. WE DON'T MAKE ANYTHING! Besides guns. The Money Men are going after prison$ and school$.
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 02:48 PM by WinkyDink
The US survives economically on war and crime, pardon the redundancy.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. That's what SHE said!
I can't resist an opportunity to say/post that.

As for the graph, that looks like a cross-stitch basket that a cat got into.

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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. Obviously we need a second stimulus.
Unfortunately, I don't think Snowe or Collins would go for it.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. .
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 06:06 PM by BzaDem
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. No....we need accountability.
Stimulus is just throwing money to people/projects that probably don't need it. I know many, many, many families including my own that do NOT need another tax rebate or what not.

What we need is some hard core accountability to businesses to pay taxes, to the rich to pay more taxes, to the govt to only spend money if they can say where it is coming from, etc. A poster above said it well when they said something like, everything is already beyond broken. The only way we'll actually "fix" anything is to start holding people accountable.

What do you do when your muffler goes out on your car? You get your muffler fixed. You DON'T go buy new tires, a new engine, get a new paint job, etc. and then still complain that your muffler doesn't work. Cause you never fixed it.
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