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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:38 AM
Original message
Disease bacteria that resists all antibiotics discovered.
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 08:41 AM by Deep13
This is some scary shit, people.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/new-strains-of-b...

There are only two antibiotics that work against NDM 1-producing bacteria, and the likelihood is that they will also be overcome before long.

"In many ways, this is it," Professor Walsh says. "This is potentially the end. There are no antibiotics in the pipeline that have activity against NDM 1-producing Enterobacteriaceae.

"We have a bleak window of maybe 10 years, where we are going to have to use the antibiotics we have very wisely, but also grapple with the reality that we have nothing to treat these infections with.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. OK, we're screwed.
"Thorough hygiene - such as scouring hospital wards and frequent hand washing - reduces their spread."

Forget the scrubdowns, the suits have fired a lot of the housekeeping staff and only cursory cleaning is being done these days as too few people are expected to do too much work. People are the first to feel the axe in a labor intensive business and health care has been the worst, the suits not realizing that health care starts with hygiene.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Many disinfectants must remain on a surface a certain time in order
to be effective. So much for the hurried "spray and wipe".
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I agree 100%.I work on a surgical telemetry unit
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 10:09 AM by w8liftinglady
SOMEONE thought it would be a great idea to lay off all the assistants so that nurses could be more "holistic"(translate-so they could save money)Unfortunately...it was difficult to find more nurses(not that they were looking too hard),so the patient load was high.Something is going to fall by the wayside-gowning,gloving and masking is a toughie when a patient is having breathing difficulties,bleeding out or any number of things...and you have 7 others with the same crap.My staff and I filed "Safe Harbor" more times than I can recall,but since Texas is a "Right-to-work" state...they went in an ever growing "disregard pile".
I love nursing,but I hate profit-driven medicine.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. What is filing "safe harbor"?
speaking as a nurse who burnt out due to low staffing and increased workloads beyond what was safe. Thanks.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Looks like it's a fine balancing act
between keeping things clean and overdoing it to the point where we make the existing bacteria immune to whatever we have to kill them.


Part of the problem seems to be patients who think that a dose of antibiotics will kill a flu virus. They go to their doctor and demand medicine.

The other part of the problem is doctors who actually prescribe antibiotics for things they KNOW don't need them.


then there are all those "antibacterial" soaps and washes.

My god...how did people my age ever manage to survive this long without being scrubbed and disinfected every day?

Our moms didn't use antibacterial detergents for laundry and dishes.

If we got a cut or scratch, there was mercurochrome or iodine...and later, Bactine.

we used bath soaps like Ivory, Sweetheart, Palmolive

And we played in the dirt and often ate some of it.

Now we're sanitized and disinfected to the point of creating new bacteria we won't be able to kill.

sigh...

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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Hospitals are different from homes
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 09:32 AM by Warpy
and need to be scrubbed down frequently because people in the hospital are there with stressed immune systems and there are bugs there they've never been exposed to. People are largely immune to the bugs in their own homes.

I do agree about overly cleanly homes and overuse of antibiotics, especially in toddlers with earaches. Give the kiddies a little Tylenol and codeine so they'll sleep, but no antibiotics unless it hangs on for more than 5 days and a bacterial superinfection is suspected.

Unfortunately, the parents do clamor for antibiotics and pediatricians still prescribe them to get the parents out of the office. Docs have gotten a bit better about not prescribing antibiotics for viral illnesses in adults, especially since they can now write scrips for Tamiflu or amantadine.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Yes, of course I realize that hospitals
have to have a much higher standard of cleanliness than homes do.

Even so, I still don't feel comfortable about touching anything in hospitals, and whenever I've had to use the bathroom in a hospital, I always wash my hands and then use a paper towel to turn off the faucet, then another one to unlock and open the door...just like I would at, for example, a fast food place.

And one of the first things I do upon returning home from anywhere is to wash my hands.

But I don't go crazy buying antibacterial this or anti-germ that.


PS...one of my favorite soaps is "Dr Bronner's Peppermint Soap" :)

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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Dr B's is what I use, too
I have some antibacterial stuff at the kitchen sink, but it's nearly evaporated in the bottle because there's no reason to use it.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Isn't that the best stuff?
I dilute it just a little bit and keep some in a squirt bottle to use for things like brushing my dentures and dental appliance, washing my face, showering (a few drops on a shower scrubby thing makes lots of suds) and I even used it to wash my hair, expecting that it might leave it looking sort of nasty (soap not being quite the same as shampoo) but it worked very well.

The peppermint scent is invigorating!

:)
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I am doing my part to return to the good old days.
Hate housekeeping.
Only use real soap and vinegar for cleaning.
We name our dust bunnies.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. hahahaah...that's a lifestyle I can learn to love...
seriously, though, I don't think a lot of people realize how great vinegar can be for cleaning stuff.

Um, when we feel like cleaning stuff, that is....


;)
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Baking soda is quite useful too. We don't really need all these strong-smelling

products Madison Ave. pushes at us.


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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Yep, baking soda too...
stubborn coffee stains come right out of carafes and cups

some baking soda and just a mere drop of dish soap, a little rubbing with a sponge and the stain is gone.

Also good for removing nasty spaghetti sauce stains from plastic.

and baking soda mixed with 3% peroxide and a drop of dish soap, poured on a pet stain and allowed to foam up then soaked up with a towel will often remove the stain and the smell. Recipe...8 oz. peroxide, 2 Tsp baking soda, 1 drop detergent. stir and use immediately...use it all. Do not store, especially in closed container.

I found this worked better than a particular enzyme-based pet stain/odor remover.

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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Yeah, I got the "tired" in Re-tired, down pat.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. Thorough cleansing has little to do with this problem. What kills something in the external
environment is not employed to kill organisms within the body. So really in that regard you are comparing apples to cement blocks.

You're spot on about the antibiotic overuse, but sanitizing our homes is not creating new antibiotic-resistant bacteria, it is merely reducing our exposure to them, sometimes at the cost of becoming more susceptible to ordinary infections. It is also linked to increased incidence of allergies to things like mold, pollen, dust mites, etc.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Time to turn the phage ...
Phage therapy

We're only partially fucked. Never totally.

--d!
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. That works for some bugs but not for others
Yes, the bacteriophage will kill the bug it targets, but often that bug or even the phage itself will release toxins that kill the patient. That's why phage therapy was discarded in favor of antibiotics that targeted the bug's ability to multiply or the permeability of the cell wall.

We're now out of usable fungi to attack bacteria. I suppose phage therapy for susceptible pathogens will be a possibility as time goes on.
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megrelian Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. Toxins Killing the Patient?
That is absurd. This has never happened in the 70+ year history of phage therapy. Lytic phages don't release toxins. Phage therapy was used all over the Soviet Union until the 1990's. It is still in use in several former Soviet republics, including Georgia. It still works, even on the superbugs. Currently you have to travel to Georgia or Poland for treatment.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=888793196751574...
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. The bugs sure as hell do and there is concern that the phages
themselves do, also.

http://www.hi.helsinki.fi/yersinia/pdf_own/Skurnik_IJMM...

Pros and cons: http://www.bacteriophagetherapy.info/ECF40946-8E2F-4890...

Don't confine yourself to overly enthusiastic studies. Do try to get a more balanced viewpoint on this stuff.

As for their use in the US, they're mainly used in infection control as phage typing to determine the original locus of any large outbreak of nosocomial illness.
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megrelian Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. That's a Load of FUD
You might consider balancing your own viewpoint by reading
publications written by persons who are directly engaged in
the R&D and clinical studies. This one's very recent, you
can buy the full article or read the abstract here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20214609

Authors Kutter, DeVos, Gvasalia and Alavidze are among the
leaders in the field of phage therapy.

For a little more balance, you may also want to have a look
at what Biocontrol, UK has been up to:

http://www.biocontrol-ltd.com/ClinicalTrials/tabid/58/Default.aspx

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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. I recently read a novel which made a casual mention of a character's scarred
hands - the result of being a nurse treating infected wounds. Apparently, it was quite common for a nurse to pick up infections. Maybe if doctors start seeing themselves get infections, they will be more rigorous with the handwashing!


On another note - when my mother trained back in 1950, nurses were taught how to handle clean and dirty linen to keep sterile drapes sterile and avoid spreading infections.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. Bullshit Discovery. We Discovered Such Bacteria Years Ago
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Did you read the article or just the headline?
The point of the story is where they are finding it and how it is spreading. Doctors are saying we are beginning the post-antibiotic age.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. I was Making a Joke
Sorry for trying to find some humor.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. It's OK...
I got the joke...

:7

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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Okay sorry.
I can't always tell around here.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. just in time for 2012!
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 09:40 AM by Barack2theFuture
:thumbsup:
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
14. I swear we're returning to the Middle Ages.
Feudalism, serfs, church rule, and now the plague.


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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Ain't it grand?
:banghead:
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Holly_Hobby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
24. Nature wins every time n/t
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. You seem to take satisfaction in this. nt
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's time to consider bacteriophages as treatment against infections
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