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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:11 AM
Original message
I guess those who (rightly) criticized this Administration in the past are now proven right
Two words, tone deaf, and far too many here jumped on those members of the 'professional Left' for their opinions and claimed the moral high ground.


Who is looking up now?

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. The left is always right.
Sometimes it takes centuries for the rest to catch up, but the facts remain.
:kick: & R

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. They are not always right, however, by any standard it is an inane thing to dis a large element
of your party in public, which is what Gibbs, and administration have done

For a group that seemed so "aware" when running for public office, they now seem to make dumb amateur mistakes

The way they joined in initially against Shirley Sherrod, without getting the facts straight only point out the ineptness


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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. What is so hillarious is that so many on the left have been disparaging this admin
everyfuckingwhere on the Internet, the Television and the Newspaper
since day one.

So the administration finally makes a statement about it,
and those on the Left are like falling all over themselves and reacting like
the indignant victims struck with a knife in the back.

What a mean world we live in....when folks can dish it out day after day,
but somehow want to focus on what was said about what they do instead of the fact
that the amateurs are who they are as well, which is why we won't be able to strenghten
our majorities, when doing so would have gotten us more of what we want.
--------------------------
Robert Gibbs made a clarification of his comments that were reported by The Hill where he, heaven forbid, criticized some people he referred to as the professional left. Sam Stein said The Fuckington Post received a statement from Robert Gibbs and prints it with all his snarkiness surrounding it. I wont link to that piece of shit rag, but I will copy and paste from it

In a statement to the Huffington Post, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs acknowledged that his recent broadside against the professional left was inartful, and called for renewed unity among the Democratic community.

Referring to statements he made in an interview with The Hill published Tuesday, Gibbs reiterated his belief (which served as the basis of his initial remarks) that the president had achieved a host of legislative accomplishments for which he was not getting proper credit. But he said that Democrats, me included, need to stop fighting each other and arguing about our differences on certain policies, and instead work together to make sure everyone knows what is at stake because weve come too far to turn back now.

Robert, dont take it back, those assholes like Jane Hamsher, Glenn Greenwald, Cenk Uygur and the rest of the Firebagger Brigade dont ever want to work with President Obama. Just like the asshole Republicans, dont reach your hand out to those PINOs progressive in name only. They and their rabid followers have an irrational hatred for President Obama, I get their troll comments all the time. Their goal is to help bring down President Obama to prove that Hillary or Dennis Kucinich should have been president. I think it just pisses them off more when the president accomplishes something. Nicole473 commented at Bob Cescas place that brings this home to me

These Firebaggers are nuts, IMO.

There is a hatred that I think started during the election when Hillary and Barack were at the peak of their battle. I had many friends who were very angry and bitter that Obama was beating her, they became irrational. Thankfully most of them came down after the heat of the battle, but some who have the power of the pen like Hamsher, never did. They have clung to this irrational hatred and are still fighting Hillarys lost battle. Was that Jane Hamsher dodging sniper fire with Hillary on that runway in Bosnia? Back to the Fuckington Post pieceSam Stein makes a bold statement The vast majority of the reaction, however, was sharply negative. He then quotes the one and only Janey Hamsher

Spiro Agnew sorry, Robert Gibbs says the professional left is not representative of the progressives who organized, campaigned, raised money and ultimately voted for Obama emailed Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake.com. Well, the Obama in the White House is not the Obama who organized, campaigned, raised money and ran for office, so I guess its a wash.

How clever, Jane. Is that like a twist on words that you thought up all by yourself. Wow, I wish I were that clever. Jane Hamsher does not represent very many people on the leftif you go to her site and read the comments, which can lower your IQ so be careful, but if you read her commenters, not very many are progressive. They use the exact same talking points as Fox News. Firebaglake does not represent the progressives. There may be a few sane people there who are progressive but most of them are with the hate Obama crowd and consumed with an irrational hatred for President Obama. I dont want to call them racist, but man, that irrational hatred they have smells very much like the same stench that comes from racism.
http://extremeliberal.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/the-prof...
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. "disparaging since day one"? Did you not understand the Rick Warren issue?
There was every reason to criticize from day one, and the refusal to even acknowledge the controversy of Rick Warren was reason nmero uno. And it's only gotten worse.

Racism?... Sure, there's that from the Right, but the Left is showing enough Homophobia to balance it... including Obama (DADT, DOMA, ENDA) and his cowardice on facing LGBT issues.

"Robert, dont take it back, those assholes like Jane Hamsher, Glenn Greenwald, Cenk Uygur and the rest of the Firebagger Brigade dont ever want to work with President Obama. Just like the asshole Republicans, dont reach your hand out to those PINOs progressive in name only. They and their rabid followers have an irrational hatred for President Obama" really?... it's just "irrational hatred", having nothing to do with any policy decisions?

Who does that make sense to?

"Referring to statements he made in an interview with The Hill published Tuesday, Gibbs reiterated his belief (which served as the basis of his initial remarks) that the president had achieved a host of legislative accomplishments for which he was not getting proper credit." Awwww... poor Obama, not getting the right credit. Wonder what these secret legislative accomplishments might be.... Health Insurance Reform/Mandates?... probably not. Hmm...

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. So some folks stayed stuck and carried a grudge.
You've made my point.
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. " "disparaging since day one"? " Do you not understand the meaning of that phrase?
It means, firstly, "since day one"... which makes your faux comment about "stayed stuck" ridiculous...

It is about day one, which makes comments about "staying stuck" half-witted at best.

Carried a grudge?... Hardly. I was an ardent Obama supporter. A virulent and borderline psychopathic proponent throughout the primaries (I assume that's the inference of the "grudge" bullshit).

I now see that I was wrong. The administration has shrugged off every aspect of the primary campaign's striving after anything that won't serve the upper-middle class suburbanites that, apparently, now serve as the core of the party.

I apologize if I ever gave the impression that myself or my interests ever merited more than a chamber pot for convenient disposal. :)
:toast:
:puke:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. Really, why don't you stop? You are not helping.
Your theories are so off base I don't know where to begin. I, like so many others who have been critical of the policies of this administration, was NEVER a Hillary supporter. She voted for the Iraq war and was therefore never going to get my support.

I supported Obama since he was:

Supposedly opposed to the war.
Supposedly opposed to Offshore drilling.
Supposedly opposed to Mandated Insurance.
Supposedly opposed torture.
Supposedly believed that a PO, if not Single Payer which he preferred, was worth fighting for.
Supposedly for Civil Rights for all Americans.
Supposedly for restoring the Rule of Law
Supposedly would bring back Habeaus Corpus
Supposedly supportive of the Public School system and teachers
Supposedly against the privatization of Social Security.

I would never have supported someone who would keep on Bush appointees like Gates, Bernanke et al.
I would never have supported a Rahm Emanuel appointment, he was Hillary's guy.

I did NOT support someone who would order political assassinations, NOR EVER WOULD.
I did NOT support someone who refused justice for the victims of torture we are responsible for.
I did NOT support someone who would allow the trial of a tortured child soldier to go forward using the vile MCA which we were promised would be rescinded four years ago now.

And I definitely did not support someone who would lift the ban on Offshore drilling or
who would bail out corrupt Wall St. Bankers and refuse to prosecute them.
And mostly, I never, ever would have supported someone would give Torturers and War criminals a get out of jail free card.

But that and so much more is what we ended up with. And THAT, not your ridiculous imaginary primary 'grudge' factor, is why millions of his former supporters have become disillusioned and have tried to be heard, but have received nothing but insults in return.

He was a Democrat so I did not think by supporting him we would get Republicans like Alan Simpson, Judd Gregg, Pete Peterson, Lindsey Graham and others back in advisory and other positions of power. WE THREW THEM OUT and Obama brought them back in while shutting out progressives who are far more qualified for those jobs.

As for Gibbs, he needs to be fired along with Rahm, Vilsack and whoever advised Obama to lift the ban on Offshore drilling.

Gibbs, we are learning, is two faced dirty trickster who set out to destroy Howard Dean's chances to win the WH. See Madfloridian's OP now on the rec list, it made my stomach turn to learn that this man was instrumental in possibly losing the WH by running an FOR BUSH against a great Democrat like Howard Dean!! !Why did Obama bring this person into the WH? He's not even good at the job, never mind his horrible, Rove-like treachery against a member of his own party?

He CANNOT bring unity to this party, he just need to be fired and fast. I despise him now and would have had I know what he did to Dean.

Your constant whining won't save this party's majority which we worked so hard for so long to get. The only thing that will do that is for this president to separate himself from those who are dividing the party, and if he refuses, for Congress to separate itsefl publicly from this WH. Otherwise the unthinkable will happen, this WH will hand a victory to Republicans in the Fall and I know that millions of us will never forgive them for that.

Wake up, this is not about playing political games, it is about the very future of this country. Try to rise above your own personality conflicts, it isn't about you or about this president. It is about far more imortant things than one politician's political career. He was handed a mandate, and he has squandered it but it is not too late for him to start doing what he was electe4d to do.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Exactly
I wouldn't support anyone who voted for that war and while Obama wasn't around to vote at the time, he did speak out which was good enough for me. I'm not some bitter primary voter. (I actually didn't vote in the primary 'cause I was in the military at the time) I strongly supported him up until he used Bush-era arguments to block the release of torture pictures. I still supported him pretty well but over time my support has decreased.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
39. Wow...Great Rant!
I wish I could have written that. Well stated...thanks.

-PLA
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. You said it, girl! (nt)
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
44. Thank you! n/t
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
47. Beautifully written.
I can't say what I would like to say in reply because I really don't want to be tossed out.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. It's alright. Sometimes just the truth
is enough to drive away those who would tear down good people and citizens who are the very salt of the earth and who worked hard to get good leadership for this country, to protect politicians who break their promises.

If we keep telling the truth, sooner or later they will not be able to respond. The truth is a powerful weapon against propaganda and lies and smears.

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
51. Perfectly stated sabrina
And right there with you.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
53. AMEN n/t
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Babel_17 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Glenn Greenwald is now an asshole, and never wanted to work with Obama?
Imo Greenwald is sticking to the standards he applied to the Bush administration.

Read his articles from back then and compare.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Imo, Greenwald is sticking to a formula that worked; criticize everything,
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 04:04 AM by FrenchieCat
and don't acknowledge any positive beyond it being "not enough".

That's how he pays his mortgage. That's what makes him a "professional".
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joe black Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
49. Got a reply for post by Sebrina.
I didn't think so.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. the Administration seems very full of themselves and seems to believe
what they are doing is in the best interest of the country. But, the hubris is so enormous, that when the lefties point out the short-comings of their "perfection", then we get the angry blaming Gibb's or Rahm attacks.

I am continually amazed, disappointed, and disgusted by their self-delusion and lack of humility, and the near complete disregard for reasonable alternatives that are out of their frame. My sense is that this group of mostly Harvard "experts" has virtually lost complete touch with the pain/struggle of regular Americans, they are mostly quite rich people.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Hubris is a relative term that I would use on the many on the left
that have been disparaging this administration about everything for a long time now.

There is a certain lack of humility when one believes that it only takes one
man to get all things undone; 30 fucking years of damage, in a political environment
where the media basically can make or break you (see Dean, Kucinich, Gore and Kerry on that)
and those who believe that only they elected this President,
when many are the Nader voter types who decry the Democratic party at other websites,
and many didn't even vote nor worked to elect this President who clearly said
he couldn't do it in one term and couldn't do it without us.

I can't believe the nerves of those who now play victim cause they can dish it out,
but fuckinghellno, they can't take it, and they surely aren't gonna let it go....
cause it is their excuse to, like the Republicans, ensure that Obama fails. That is
their goal, and their only goal.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. it's really hard to hear your points amidst the attack. Try addressing the points I make
without making an attack.

Specifically, "Do you see any hubris on the part of the Administration?"
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. No, we don't want him to fail
I was a supporter from the beginning. I'll still support him. However, I have been terribly disappointed in the type of change he has been promoting. I feel when he was elected he had enough support of the American people that he could have gotten much more than he went after. I feel that his admin thinks that they need the repukes more than the Dems to make the changes that America needs, and has bent over backwards trying to pacify them- to no avail, I might add. I really do think that he has been convinced by his advisers (Rahm Emanuel specifically) to carry on with the status quo because he believes it is politically safe for him. I don't know why Emanuel has so much influence. I do know he's the gate keeper to the Oval Office. I don't blame Gibbs for being influenced by Emanuel and all would be forgiven if the President would dump some of those that are responsible for convincing him to carry on in Washington with business as usual.

You can't make friends with bullies without becoming pat of their click. If being like by your opponent is more important than doing the job, then it's time to find someone else who isn't so concerned about what the other side thinks or wants.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
57. The things he HAS done
There tends to be a focus on the part of people defending Gibbs and Obama that the primary complaints are about things he hasn't done. It completely ignores all the complaints about the things he has done, and that he has fought with congress to be able to do. It is very telling, because of course they can't blame that on the congress, or teabaggers, or "professional leftists", so they just ignore it.

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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I think you are attacking a strawman.
The people who equate Obama and Bush are not attacking Obama because he isn't perfect. They are bashing him viciously and constantly, and have from day 1. That is what Gibbs was getting at. He was not complaining that some people don't think Obama's perfect (though this may fit your narrative).
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. and it sounds like you feel compelled to rescue and defend him, but that's
not my point.

Speak to my points.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Gibbs statement was a strawman
He is misrepresenting positions of whatever left he is talking about. People criticize the administration for a continuation of some Bush-era policies. He probably misrepresented that. He also went on about how they won't be happy unless there is Canadian health care and eliminating the pentagon. I'll accept the first point but not the second one. There are many on the left that would like a REDUCED military budget and use that for social programs that help people. Now in response to caving into centrists on HCR he said they wouldn't be happy if Kucinich was President. Now there is no way of knowing that because he isn't. It isn't the lack of getting things through the Senate that bothers me. I can go as far back as when the Senate killed the Anti-Foreclosure bill that had a lot of blue dog support. I don't blame him for that or other things such as that. So I wouldn't be unhappy with Kucinich in this department as I'm not unhappy with Obama in this department. I am upset with things he CAN control like Bagram. I would be upset with Kucinich if he too thought detainees didn't have a right to habaes corpus.

I actually had no problems at all with him on his first day. I liked the executive orders to close GITMO and use the Army Field Manual to interrogate suspects.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. He correctly assessed the complaints of some (not all) on the left..
He was referring to the types who would prefer a Kucinich for president. You know..Those on the farrrrr left who would want to dismantle the pentagon and adopt the Canadian health care system. I might like the Canadian healthcare system too, but I didn't think it was feasible at this time, so I'm not holding that against them like many on the left.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. See I never seen that complaint
Dismantle the pentagon. I know people that want to reduce the military budget which is severely bloated. That is why I think he was completely misrepresenting their arguments. I guess I'm on the farrrrr left because I want Canadian health care, cut defense spending, and at this point I would prefer Kucinich as President. I don't care if I am farrrrr left though. I don't hold it against Obama but I do wish Dems in Congress would fight for it though. I recall Kucinich got an amendment past which had bi-partisan support out of committee that would allow states to create a statewide universal health care system that would also prevent insurance companies from suing to take that away. The reason it had support from Republicans in committee was because of a states right kind of thing. States didn't have to choose this type of coverage. However Pelosi strips it out because it would violate Obama's promise that Americans who liked their coverage could keep it.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
56. Please find a quote...
...from someone on the "professional left" stating they want to DISMANTLE the Pentagon and just get rid of our military.

By the way: Kucinich's intent to institute a Department of Peace doesn't count, as that in itself is NOT a call to DISMANTLE our military.

Waiting...
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. They are not full of themselves. They are very busy trying to fix the problems
left behind by bushco. The problems facilitated by the leftists when they abandoned Gore and voted for Nader with their, "I'll show them" antics. They are annoyed by the petty carping. I don't blame them. But don't confuse "hubris" with being annoyance. They are two different things.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Oh poor wittle thing, today wasn't a bean feast for Barack
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. more attack. How about listening and reflecting on others' points rather than reacting reflexively?
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. I take whatever comes but not quietly and sure as fuck not from employees
wanting praise for selling us out for pleasure and gain.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. I supported him over Clinton in the primaries because of his campaign organization
The organizers LISTENED to local people and took advantage of our knowledge instead of tripping all over everyone's feet. Naturally, I was hoping for an administration that listened in that same way. I believed him when he said he wanted a robust public option as advocated by Jacob Hacker. I believed him when he criticized Clinton for advocating mandates, and when he criticized McCain for advocating taxing health care benefits. I believed him when he said he wanted EVERYONE interested in health care reform at the table.

What I got was single payer advocates arrested, not even a weak public option (which 80% of the public wanted), and being consigned to the disposable human garbage pile aged 50-64. What I get out of it is that if I give up my doctor, my former employer can get money. Big whoop. What I am now getting is a wholesale assault on the living standards of retirees with a Catfood Commission stacked with people who have publicly stated their aim of getting rid of Social Security and Medicare.

And that useless shitstain Gibbs has nothing but contempt for "Canadian" health care--you know, the kind that 60% of American medical providers would like. He could have said something to the effect of "Well, we didn't have the votes for Canadian health care, but we did the best we could." But no, he applauds the mass murder of 44,000 a year by private insurance, and bashes a system in which the number of people who die because they don't ahve money is ZERO.

I'll never vote for a Republican, but my time, money and energy will be spent from how on only to Democrats who share my belief that health care ought to be a public good.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
30. That doesn't even make sense. n/t
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. What. So we should be good little doobies and STFU like the Pukes?
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 07:41 AM by DainBramaged
WTF


Do you work for the Administration? It has to be asked.....
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
34. Actually the only one dispparaging the administration since day one was the repukes
The country, including independents, progressives and liberals were right behind them. They started to lose the progressives with HCR begin, when they intentialy left out those advocates who favored a public option, and single-payer out of the initial discussions.

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last the the white house has attacked progressives.





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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. yes. I think there were early concerns prior to inauguration, and certainly
about the inauguration's participants. But the whole exclusiveness and secrecy during early health insurance reform has just exacerbated the distrust.

Transparency is difficult to sustain in governing unless the participants are fully willing to be responsible and humble about their decisions/policy-making. I would like to see much more diversity in Obama's advisors, rather than this seemingly arrogant, unwilling-to-incorporate-divergent-approaches current group of advisors.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
37. You haven't answer your criticisms yet, is there a problem?
Hmmmmmmm
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. Wait, what? No. Not remotely.
Unless you're just calling every movement throughout history that ended up having good ideas "the left"
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #29
46. I call the left liberal, as in liberating, freeing, the removing of imposed restrictions
particularly those imposed through force. The liberals are those advocating changing of the existing systems, usually at the expense of those misusing the system to control/force the actions of others.

Throughout recorded history, it has been the liberal ideas that were right.


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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. OK, but that certainly hasn't been what "The Left" has meant through history
I mean, Maoism is a "leftist" movement out where it still exists.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Liberals are by definition against totalitarianism and authoritarianism
traits of Maoism which overwhelm its bid to be a leftist movement. RWers often bring out excesses of communistic philosophy from decades ago to smear social justice movements of today. They really aren't related. Try something different.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. GP didn't say "liberals", it said "the left"
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 12:59 PM by Recursion
Liberalism is a broad political movement that has found expression in different aspects of both the left and the right.

Arguing that "the left" has not included totalitarian elements is close to absurd.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. No, it wasn't. Neither was Stalin's nor Hitler's, Castro's or any of the other "enemies" we've
created and fought down through the decades. They were all authoritarian tyrants using the rhetoric of the left to justify their tyranny. They were no more left than the U.S. is democratic.


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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
17. So What's The End Game Here?
OK, Gibbs is the biggest piece of shit this side of Rahm Emanuel and they both said nasty thing and "attacked the base" and hurt feelings and tracked mud across mom's clean carpets. OK, point made. Maybe Gibbs should be punished by having to go to an Olive Garden and be circumsized by a vegan. OK...said, done. Now what?

OK people are pissed...I'm not a happy camper either, but what's the end game of the constant sniping at this administration as it appears to be a downhill spiral on both sides...the administration pisses of some of its base, the then start pissing back that leads to more bad feelings.

A serious question to the class...what's the end game here? Stay home and "teach" the Democrats and Obama a "teachable moment"? And that moment is? Should Obama fire everyone in his cabinet or only the "DLC" or whatever moniker you place on the person you don't like? I see the harping and its understood, but now what? Keep bitching?

In short...what does all this accrimony go to prove? How will it fix the problems millions are facing? Just curious to see if there's a constructive idea...
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. K&R +10000
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. feelings are too high, it's premature to look for solutions or
the like until there's some repair, if it ever occurs. But, ask again later. Good point.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Yes. Not a good time to make decisions. n/t
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
40. As someone said last night
The base is going to get out and vote to support the Dem. Who isn;t goign to vote will be the independants and the soft middle. Those are the ones that will be staying home. That, is going to hurt.
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
50. Keep bitching? Yeah. When it's called for, en masse.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
23. I don't agree with that. The question isn't whether Gibb's assessment
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 05:03 AM by Kahuna
of the whining on the left is true (it is), the question is whether he should have said it out loud. I'm on the left. His words didn't bother me because I'm not a foot-stomping whiner, pearls clutching whiner. Only those who know that they have been non-stop nit-pickers are taking to their fainting beds and clutching their pearls.

edit to correct the subject line
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. "whining"? that just minimizes constructive critiques. Try listening
and addressing the critiques without all the demeaningness, please.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. You pay attention...It was Gibbs who thinks the professional left is
a bunch of whiners. I was referring to his position, not mine. But once again, you just proved him right.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. "constructive criticism" = your "whining" (so much for the big tent!)
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
28. Check out this OP if you haven't already DB
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Good one. My feelings exactly.
Thanks
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
48. I take no pleasure in being correct.
I just wish more could have seen through him early on, as I did.
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