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Howard Dean gave the Democrats all of this, and they've squandered it.

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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:12 PM
Original message
Howard Dean gave the Democrats all of this, and they've squandered it.
I see others thinking of Howard Dean at this time, and I can see why.

From 2003 through 2008, Howard Dean led our party with moderate-liberal, populist, and consistent positions and messages and, through his vocal leadership, cultivated the political culture that led to overthrowing the Republicans in 2006 and 2008. His framing of issues is responsible for the "comeback" of the Democratic Party.

I also still believe he would have won if he had been our Presidential candidate in 2004.

Not to mention his work as DNC Chairman and his "50-state strategy."


He gave the party the Presidency and huge majorities in the House and Senate for the past year and a half. Now we're facing serious losses in the fall, having accomplished very little, and Robert Gibbs is talking trash about those who are supposed to keep the election from turning into a tsunami.


Howard Dean gave the Democrats everything they should have needed- including a new, more effective, un-DLC understanding of politics- and this is what they have done with it. Five years' worth of work, totally squandered.

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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dean gave the party the Presidency; the DLC controlled party gave Dean the shaft.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. ain't that the truth....n/t
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. Goddamn right they did
Dean is a worthier human being and public servant than the whole lot of 'em put together.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
76. +1000
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
93. Absolutely! n/t
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
99. Unfortunately, yes
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. No, it was Rahm Emmanuel. Just ask Rahm, he'll tell you. nt
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. No it was the lame ass Reinvestment act
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. No one outside of his fan club noticed Dean while he was DNC Chair.
He was largely irrelevant and he was put there to keep him from running again.

Obama ran a community organizing style campaign that was far, far more sophisticated than anything Dean did as a candidate or party chair.

Dean does a great job of putting his ear to the ground and telling the netroots what they want to hear. He's a one trick pony.

Obama is more liberal than Dean and is accomplishing more than the former DLC Governor and self described "economic conservative" ever would have.
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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Well, for the most part, I'm not talking about his work as DNC Chair.
I'm talking about the leadership he showed and his (courageous) framing of the issues, particularly the Iraq War, from 2003 on.

He also warned the Democrats repeatedly about the HCR bill.

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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Those are two good examples of Dean putting his ear to the ground
and then repeating to the netroots what they want to hear. As far as framing Iraq, I don't think he ever said anything that hadn't been said by Kucinich months earlier.
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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. "The netroots" was nothing in late 2002 and early 2003, when Dean began his campaign.
And, if I recall correctly, it was widely considered treasonous to say even a meek word against the sacred Invasion of Iraq at the time. There was nothing but true character behind what he did, which is more than can be said of most of our other Democratic leaders.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. There were a millions stories about Dean and Meetup.
The press ate it up. Don't throw it down the memory hole.

Yes, Dean spoke up against the war a little sooner that most Democrat leaders. That's good. There's no record of him speaking against it before the invasion began like Obama did.
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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I beg to differ.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Howard_Dean%27s_speech_of...

5 days before the invasion. Helluva time to give a speech like that. "But I don't think we can win the White House if we vote for the President's unilateral attack on Iraq in Washington and then come to California and say we are against the war," he said. Very prescient.

I have a recording of his fiery words at the end of the speech. It gives me chills.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. That's a vague, indirect criticism of the war.
It's more a criticism of the politics surrounding the war rather than an attack on the war itself. It's OK.
Of course, Obama's speech at an anti-war rally five months earlier was much more direct and powerful in his opposition. It showed more courage. Obama ran on a platform of getting out on a fairly quick timeline. Dean made general comments about getting out sometime in 2-5 years. Obama had the more liberal position and he followed through on it.

http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/...

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

On Saddam Hussein

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.... The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors...and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.
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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. Of course, the difference between the two speeches was that Obama wasn't running
for President at the time, and was barely on the map as running for federal office.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. He was starting a campaign for US Senate
at a time when very few were taking his stand. It doesn't diminish what he said.
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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. What diminishes what he said was that he didn't have national exposure
as a Presidential candidate and thus did not lead the nation with his words, as Dean did.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #30
49. Afghanistan sure looks like it falls into the category of a dumb war now.
Current Obama isn't the Obama we voted for. Sad.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
64. Obama is doing exactly what he said he would do.
Iraq withdrawal is on schedule and he said there would be a buildup in Afghanistan before a withdrawal from there by 2012. You can criticize Afghanistan as bad policy, but that's exactly where he stood during the campaign.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #64
122. He didn't tell me that for 50 al queda we would be spending billions
And letting hundreds of our guys die. That is not what I signed up for.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
125. Obama is doing exactly what he said he would do.
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 10:13 PM by AlbertCat
Oh.. so Gitmo was closed last January! I didn't know that! :eyes:
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #49
80. deleted
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 06:26 PM by phasma ex machina
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
130. Obama spoke against it in fall 2002
That comment was the earliest that some found when this was argued in 2004. That makes it later than Gore's fall speech, several Kennedy speeches and Kerry's Georgetown speech.

Dean's own fall comments never say that he would vote against the resolution - he did say he prefered Biden/Lugar - but so did every Democrat on that committee.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
42. oh horseshit
no one even knew who Obama was then
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griffi94 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
70. right
obama didn't start supporting the war till he became president.
that was the same time he stopped suppoting a public option, but supported the patriot act and gitmo.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #70
95. Withdrawing from a war is supporting it?
Trying to shut down gitmo is supporting it?

You do know that it was Congress who cut off funding to close Gitmo, and it was Congress that took the public option out of the President's proposal?

Up is down, down is up in the land of say anything to attack Obama.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
123. That's what one would believe if corpmedia had their way, anyway. None of them bothered to notice
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 10:04 PM by blm
that Dean supported the Biden-Lugar version of the IWR in 2002 even as he spent 2003 calling anyone who supported IWR 'prowar' just like the media did. Dean came round to antiwar position which was good, but, then he wasn't exactly honest about his shift in views since the newsmedia didn't happen to notice, or didn't find reason to hold him accountable for his position as he attacked others for the sin of....holding a similar position as Dean.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
128. What about Al Gore's speech in 2002? In January 2003, Kerry
gave a speech that ended with a call against "rushing to war" - even using the words "not a war of last resort".

Dean spoke out and that was great, but he was not alone.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
84. I'm sick and tired of the fan club trying to marginalize Americans communicating over the net
as "netroots". And I'm sick and tired of being told that Obama's DLC crew can't do any wrong. Because it's a load of BS that you are trying to push, Mr. Radical DLC Activist.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #84
97. I'm tired of the small number of gullible Democrats calling anyone who
supports the progressive action Obama is taking "DLC." Obama just spent a year reversing much of the damage done by the actual DLC President, Bill Clinton.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. What's Obama done to remove 'free' trade and restore tarriffs? Now that everyone is on wellfare,
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 07:53 PM by w4rma
what has he done to counteract Clinton's changes to the welfare system?

Do you know something I don't? I think you actually like gullible Democrats who believe you.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. I know about Clinton deregulating the finance, lending and other industries.
Things that Obama just reversed. Don't you?
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. I didn't know Obama restored the Glass-Steagall Act or reimplemented mark-to-market. (nt)
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 07:59 PM by w4rma
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #97
104. Obama .... "progressive" . . . . ????
:rofl:
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #104
111. So says the "Radical Activist", haw haw haw.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. We all wish Obama was progressive . . . !!
That's for sure --
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
127. From 2003 on? I'll give you 2003 and 2004 - even though in terms of what to do going forward, he
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 10:38 PM by karynnj
was not that clear.

For later years is not remotely true. For the far left, there were people like Jim McGovern and Kuchinich, who regularly spoke of leaving now (or asap) For the left, Kerry and Finegold led in both 2005 and 2006 with various exit plans - in 2005 they had different ones in 2006, they worked together. For the Democratic centrists, there was the Levin resolution in 2006 and Wes Clark's statemenst in 2007.


In that time frame, Dean backed the Korb plan, which was far less aggressive in terms of leaving - and contained none of Kerry's and Feingold's concern that we needed to immediately say no permanent bases and to speak against occupation. It also did not gain much support from any key Democrats.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. It keeps getting piled higher and deeper doesn't it?
:rofl:

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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Your point would have been made if you had written about actual issues.
Dean panders to the left. Obama spends more time convincing moderates (Dean never had to do that since he was never the nominee or President) but his proposals are to the left of anything Dean proposed.

Actually, Obama had a long progressive record before he became President, which included publicly speaking out against the war before Dean did. Oh, and he did it at an anti-war rally (something Dean avoided like the plague).

Yes, we see that in 18 months Obama already has more progressive accomplishments than Clinton had in 8 years. He kept his promise to withdrawal from Iraq on schedule (try and find how quickly Dean promised to withdrawal). He already did more for clean energy than Carter.

Obama is doing a good job if you look at the details instead of unquestionably believing every sensationalist headline on the internets.

You wrote: "and never throughout his career took a stand and put up a fight on principle for any controversial issue"
Yes, I'm wondering what drugs you're on because this is a fucking ignorant statement.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Dean put together REAL health care reform in Vermont
and would have re-regulated the corporate media- which may have cost him the election.

Obama? Hell, his FCC can't even decide on net neutrality without an attempt at a backroom deal.

Obama's "accomplishments" on the major issues? LOL

A half measure poorly targeted stimulus that he was warned by credible economists (you know- the ones who got it right) -would leave the US mired with high unemployment for many years.

A heath care bill that aside from a patients bill of rights- you know, that Gore stuff) -does absolutely nothing to control costs or reduce medical bankruptcies..

Financial regulation- watered down by administration officials on the own and in opposition to progressive senators that solves NONE of the 4 major problems it needed to address?

An energy plan opening up the coast to oil drilling! That was a beauty, eh?

Sorry dude. The gig is up.

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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. All the empty talking points.
And the usual blinders to what has been accomplished. Just because you call something a worthless compromise doesn't make it true.
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xocet Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
71. You tell him!
I love the imaginary, k-dimensional-single-payer, non-corporate-dominated health care that every last citizen of this country now has. President Obama has manhandled his every political opponent with preemptive compromise. No one has been able to stop him. In fact, the Republicans are so scared of him that not a single one of them has dared to oppose President Obama's policies in an open vote.

Furthermore, Robert Gibbs was totally correct to discipline the worthless scum that lies to the left of President Obama's quite reasonable political positions.

--Deedni Msacras
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
89. What's empty are your arguments. They don't stand the smell test.
Obama is a weakling one-term President precisely because he didn't have the courage to be anything else.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
96. Speaking of talking points and blinders....
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 07:40 PM by liberation
LOL. You crack me up, you really do. I love it!
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
134. And just because you call yourself "radical activist" doesnt make it so. nm
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
106. Btw, rather than "transparency" notice even the financial legislation became a "back room deal" ....
more and more this is happening -- and Obama is setting any better example in

his back room deals ---
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
107. What I absolutely LOVE about Dean is that he admitted that had he to do
Vermont's health care over again he would have made it Single Payer --

Would be costing 1/3rd less, I think he said!!

Dean still has that instinct to be spontaneous and truth tell -- and

I hope he doesn't lose it cause he's one of the few left with that valuable trait!!

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Smashcut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
63. +1000
I can't even believe this shit any more.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Still haven't gotten over it, have you Chad?
You hated Dean from day one. Shall we dig up the old threads?
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Gotten over Dean being an irrelevant loser?
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 11:55 PM by Radical Activist
Yeah, I can handle it much better than the weekly whining that Dean wasn't picked for a cabinet post.
And yes, I still think he was the biggest fake to run for President since George W. Bush, Chad. (Is Chad a special name we're calling each other at DU now)?
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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
44. I've alerted on this post twice now and have no idea why it hasn't been deleted.
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 12:54 AM by coti
It contains two classic examples of namecalling against a respected Democrat and violates the the "Divisive anti-Democratic rhetoric" rule, ala "Extreme insults or name-calling against prominent Democrats," not to mention a strong connection to not calling Obama a "con man, fraud, Manchurian Candidate, traitor, secret Republican stalking-horse, or other baseless smear."
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
32. I've never seen a comment of yours that had even a chemical trace of truth in it.
And this one's no exception.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I don't think I've ever seen you refute the factual acuracy of anything I've written.
So you can guess how much your comment bothers me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. I once met Al Franken in Chicago.
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 01:13 AM by Radical Activist
He had dinner with one of the ghostbusters.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Oh.
;)
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Now that's not fair, Jim.
I'm sure Bruce pays his own kid more than $5/hour. :rofl:
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. rofl
:thumbsup:
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
90. That is because as a "radical activist" he makes a great "status quo apologist"
I personally think his whole shtick is amusing... you have to take it for what it is: comedy. Then it makes all sort of sense, it provides a few good laughs too. So I appreciate that.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #90
98. Dean wasn't liberal enough for me
and that makes me a supporter of the "status quo?" It makes me someone who examines what I hear and read. I looked at Dean's record and platform beyond the empty lines about being from the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" one week and then calling himself a centrist the next.
I look at the details to find the real story instead of being gullible about every headline that tells us we're being betrayed by Obama. Once you do that it doesn't take long to realize the "Obama is like Bush" sensationalism has nothing behind it.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #98
129. "Obama is like Bush"
Got straw-man?


What has this to do with your complete dismissal of Dean?

We have the Presidency and both houses of Congress, and you think this is the best we could have done? Obama had a huge mandate and huge majorities and should have been able to get more done with way less compromise. Of course the Prez doesn't make law. Congress does that. But all Obama's insistence on bipartisan kumbaya, which I understand giving a go, has amounted to exactly zero from the GOP. And yet, it goes on.
There's no need to be ruthless or devil-may-care about the rules like the Bush GOP. But hows about a healthy snubbing of the GOP? Assuming they are just gonna vote no and criticize no mater what... let 'em and do what's right.... that could go a long way. Y'know, Obama should insist Reid make the GOP ACTUALLY filibuster, not just threaten to, before throwing up our hands and compromising. Something like that. Some toughness. Not Bush/Cheney bullying, which they mistake for leadership. But some "get tough with the petulant teenagers" attitude is what is needed.



Dean points this out often. He's not irrelevant and his ideas are worth listening to.


Your dismissal is narrow minded. It's more like you're a know-it-all and we are completely duped. Neither of which is true.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
50. Absurd.
Really. I mean, please.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
52. Except the French, English and Canadians. I guess you think most
Americans were too stupid to notice how he stuck with states like Montana to get Democratic Senators elected.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
57. Right, his 50 state strategy had nothing to do with taking back congress...
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 08:50 AM by mod mom
it was all due to rahm :eyes:
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
88. Well, at least you ain't using the Che avatar anymore
something positive I guess.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
117. Not True...Our whole NC Party got revitalized because Dean gave us Fund to update our Computer Syste
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 09:50 PM by KoKo
System which was almost non-existent. We Dems didn't even have an accessible List of Dem Party Members or Donors! The Party just kept some phone numbers in a book that only the Party Big Wigs knew.

We got money to do a Data Base for all our Dem Voters and ability to access the donating Dems. We had Progressive Convention we in NC were able to fight (with great help from ACLU) to get VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS for our VOTING MACHINES!

Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich supporters were the Activists who allowed this to happen. Dean gave us the Money as DNC CHAIR. Since then...the party has had funds reduced and the energy is still with the Progressives of North Carolina. The website for Progressives and the fragile network we have left after Dean was booted out is still going...but we are starving for the funds we had during Dean.

I see these constant posts from you who call yourself "Radical Activist." I've concluded you are either very young or have little experience with Dem Politics in your state.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
132. Please explain your statement that Obama is more liberal than Dean. nm
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. yup, what a wasted opportunity
Obama blew it big time along with the Democrats in Congress. End of story. The only ones not seeing that at this point are the true believer crowd, too blind to see whatever that Obama does as anything less than an act of greatness or righteousness.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Best thing that happened to Howard Dean is that he was NOT asked to be part of this administration
His reputation will remain intact.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. That's probably true. I can't feature Howard Dean turning on the people
who worked for him or who voted for him. That would be pretty much impossible.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. He'd probably make some unpopular decisions
but they would be rationally based- and wouldn't involve preemptive concessions.

And he certainly wouldn't have done something so utterly stupid as endorse Republican policy on oil drilling, knowing (or not knowing?) the state of his regulatory agencies- and then- this one surprised even me- asserting that it was safe and that drilling rigs don't cause spills...

...when only six months previously and almost identical situation with a rig (actually a much less complicated one) caused the largest oil spill in Australian history and took months to plug,

That was the coup de grce as far as I'm concerned.

The guy didn't have either a grasp of the science and engineering OR the facts. Even though they were headline news for one of our staunchest allies (headed by his own political soulmate, Kevin Rudd).
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
60. I'm trying not to think about the president right now
because I'm too perturbed.

But a long time ago, I decided that whatever Howard settled on as a project, I was support that and follow his lead. Because he has proven that he is an honest broker and that's very rare any more. I wasn't even a Deaniac when it was cool or anything. But watching the way he handled himself after 2004 made me realize that he was the real deal.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
133. Even though they were headline news for one of our staunchest allies
Do we know if the Prez knew about it? I mean he can't read every newspaper in English there is (like Sarah Palin does)


Seriously, was he even told? Did his advisers tell him or know? I think Obama's choices of who to listen to is way too conservative and narrow. He's timid when it comes to considering opinions and ideas. Be centrist. But at least listen to everybody in your party (He keeps saying he wants to hear from us). Take a chance once in a while. Piss of the GOP often!
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. Agreed.
Anyone who wants to move on with their reputation intact should be jumping ship now.

Romer wised up quickly enough. I think Volcker might follow. Not sure if there are that many others who have a reputation left to lose at this point.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
53. Excellent point. nt
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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. I also think Dean could have won in 2004.
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 11:23 PM by LAGC
If it wasn't for media reaction to that "scream", Kerry might have just been a foot-note in history.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. he had already lost iowa by the time the scream happened
even Edwards came in ahead of Dean
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #45
124. Don't you just love the selective memory?
Dean's time is over, and it is time for some to move on,and support others, yet some continue to hold on to a lost dream.
I really wanted to see Senator Kerry win the Presidency and he came a lot closer than Dean, but as much as I prayed and hoped, it wasn't to be, so I moved on and left the past behind. I feel bad for those who keep pumping the past when it makes no difference anymore.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
58. You have GOT to be kidding - it was McAuliffe's collapsing Dem party infrastructure in 4yrs BEFORE
election day that lost 2004. Dean would have been stuck tapping into the exact same party infrastructure in the states that Kerry was stuck weith.

Had McAuliffe done for the party infrastructure what Dean as chair did to strengthen party infrastructures, Kerry would have had no problem getting his votes allowed, cast and counted in states like Ohio, NM, NC, and others where the party had been collapsed for years.

Further....many of you forget that Dean had a rough showing in the debates, especially right before Iowa when he was called out for having supported Biden-Lugar version of IWR which in NO WAY would have prevented Bush's invasion of Iraq...the corpmedia never noticed in 2003 that Dean had that position in 2002. It was going to get worse for Dean no matter what.

The scream didn't dictate what happened in Iowa on the ground. What happened was the corpmedia was EXAGGERATING Dean'snumbers there while they minimized Kerry's strength on the ground there. It was Kerry that media tried to take out first, and Dean only started receiving negative focus in December that Kerry endured throughout 2003. The difference is that Kerry ENDURED....

BTW....history? Kerry has more HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT contributions to this nation's record of governance than most of DC lawmakers PUT TOGETHER. And not just for his work to end Vietnam war. Kerry is the one who pursued and uncovered IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI (which also revealed S&Ls), and CIA drugrunning - he uncovered more corruption than any other lawmaker in modern history and had to do it with every powerful person in DC against his efforts, including most of his own party, which set up the enduring disdain establishment Dems have long had for Kerry - disdain grounded in fear of Kerry ever getting access as president to documents stonewalled and withheld successfully for years by previous administrations, including Clinton's.

One would have to be totally ignorant of recent history to ever consider Kerry a 'footnote' in history.

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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. You make good points.
Sorry for not giving Kerry his due.

And you may be right... the Democratic Party infrastructure was in shambles before Howard Dean turned it around in 2006. So even if he hadn't been swift-boated by that Robert Gibbs' campaign against him, it may have still been a struggle.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. I understand...trust me, my blame goes to corporate media and the real powerbrokers in Dem party.
They have been carrying water for BushInc for many years.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
126. +1 n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
131. You forget that Kerry just beat him by 20 points in a race that he was the favorite to win
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 10:59 PM by karynnj
and was trending up in NH. Even without the scream, he would have had some momentum.

Not to mention, Kerry already had a place in history because of 1971. Not to mention, because of that history and his leadership on Kerry/Feingold, had he not been the candidate in 2004, he likely would have been a very strong possibility for 2008 after Dean lost. Remember that there likely would not have been an Obama speech. Kerry would have then been the candidate of the left - and if you heard the 5 Faneuil Hall speeches he gave in 2006, you would know that he would have been a strong candidate.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Supporting the working class means less corporate campaign $$$
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 11:28 PM by U4ikLefty
Why jeopardize that lettuce when you can just threaten the left with the memory of Bu$h?

Dean shouldn't have (and probably would have) won, but "someone" made sure he didn't get into the White House.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
110. Also, MSM get 80% of the campaign funds . . . which makes them less interested in those who
don't rake in huge amounts of corporate $$ --

and certainly far less interested in anyone aggressively supporting unions --
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #110
135. check Dean's record as gov...he was NOT union-friendly, let alone 'aggressively supporting unions'
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 03:19 PM by blm
Dean got the big endorsements because union leaders truly believed he'd BE the nominee based on the overthetop media rushing to anoint Dean as the nominee.... and Trippi was spending money like water...M$M loved those bucks and milked it as long as they could, till they had to get back to their ultimate job of killing off any Dem who had a chance of being the Dem nominee.

Curious where you get your 'analysis' of the 2004 primary?
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yyyyyyy eeeeee aaaaaahhhhh ggghhh.......
Sorry. Couldn't resist.

I think Howard Dean played an important role to be sure, but I hardly think he "gave the Democrats all this." No one person did that.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R! //nt
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. I was never more exited about an election than when he was running.
And that includes my attendance at Mile High Stadium to be part of Obama accepting the nomination for president... Which was also exiting, if more Hollywood.
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. I was very proud to work on his campaign
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 11:56 PM by AsahinaKimi
and I still like him very much.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
26. stop kvetching
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 12:03 AM by MannyGoldstein
Dean got first pick on a new spot under the bus.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. heh heh
What an honor. }(
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
51. *1000
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
86. *snort*
Still love the man, and if I'm lucky enough to find him under the bus, I'll bring spirits and food!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
28. K & R nt
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
46. This administration squandered the biggest political capital I've EVER seen
And Dean had a lot to do with that.

And to boot, they re-empowered the Republicans. They could have been 6 feet under as a party with the touch of a feather at the time...now, they're re-energized and deadly.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Which is perhaps their worst crime and greatest miracle
Did we indict their failed ideology and deplorable criminals? Fuck no, we made them partners and never failed to give their absurd policies credence and adopted many of their fuckwit ideas in return for spit in the eye.

Not only that but have as many of them that would take the job a powerful position, too boot.

It was like grounding your teenager for the summer but ending up buying them a car and telling them to go see the country on you.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #46
72. Amen
n/t
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #72
118. Amen II!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
48. Isn't that the truth k*r
He was the force and the treasure was squandered with lousy candidates chosen by Emanuel and
arrogant WH functionaries (all of them).
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another saigon Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #48
56. just checked out your link
to the money party. Lots to read. thanks for the great resource!

:)
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #56
69. Thanks for checking it out!
:hi:
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Tommy_Carcetti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
54. Howard Dean sat by idly as DNC chair while the validity of my vote was in question.
No thanks.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #54
73. When was this, exactly?
:shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #54
119. If you're talking about Florida, aren't you blaming Dean
for Florida politics? What would you have liked him to do?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #54
120. Tommy-Carcetti...you need to give more information before anyone would believe what you say.
So..explain the state you come from and how Howard Dean had anything to do with your vote.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
55. I Would Love....
to hear what Dean has to say concerning the Gibbs comment.

-PLA
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
59. K&R.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
61. Dean gave us unstable and irrelevant majorities
You can't beat up on Blue Dogs with one breath and praise Dean's 50 state strategy with the next: they are the SAME FUCKING THING. Dean gave us majorities that were sure to promote the most moderate version of any legislation possible, since the 50 state strategy is premised on the election of Blue Dogs and moderate/conservative Democrats in generally Republican states and districts?

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Yeah, that's about as wrong as it gets
If you remember (and you obviously don't), it was Rahm Emanuel heading the DCCC who backed the conservadem candidates -- many of whom ended up losing. Dean promoted and backed true progressives, many of whom won over DCCC primary opponents.

It was DEAN who brought us the 2006 progressive wins, with people like Jerry McNerney, Keith Ellison, John Hall, Carol Shea-Porter, John Yarmuth, and David Loebsack. it was RAHM who backed centrists like Tammy Duckworth, who lost her bid for Congress and conservadems like Steve Filson and Jim Leach who were sent packing in the primaries.

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Smashcut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Truth
Thank you.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. Exactly...Rahm spent huge amounts to get Cegelis out.
Just because he wanted Duckworth. And in Florida he did the same 3 times. We lost some great candidates that way.

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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
65. Well said - K&R
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
77. Agreed. Dean should run. He would get the nomination
this time. Not 2016, but 2012.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
78. K&R for Dean. n.t
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. +1
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
79. I love, donate and support Howard Dean's DFA - Democracy For America -
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
81. Kicking for Howard Dean
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
83. Who here thinks Dean approves of being used for a Divide and Conquer fest?
Show of hands, please.

Dean is too savvy a politician to be a part of something which so obviously benefits the Republicans.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. As long as it tears down the DLC, I'm all for it. This party is going nowhere with them in it. (nt)
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #83
105. Of course he approves of being honest with ourselves.
He understands the danger of being "too savvy" for our own good.
I think the Democratic Party has made a fundamental mistake in the last few years, thinking that we're going to win by being like the Republicans. What we need to do-and the way we're going to win-is not to plant our flag in the middle of the shrinking rightward-moving electorate. We need to understand that a lot of people have given up in the last 10 years. They don't think it makes any difference which party gets elected. But we're going to give them a reason to vote this time and we're going to put our flag in the middle of where America ought to be and bring people to us! -- Howard Dean

Real leadership -- not particularly "savvy."

---
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
87. K&R! n/t
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
91. LOL...and I really did laugh out loud. Dean was mostly there for the ride.
Any idiot could have bumbled into big majorities in 2006 and 2008 given the utter collapse of the Bush administration and GOP leadership in Congress.

In your world if Howard Dean were still DNC Chairman, would this election cycle be super-sunny?
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
92. K&R
Howard Dean was the real deal when he ran for president, when he was the chair of the DNC, and he is the real deal today. He's my kind of Democrat.

Thanks for your post, coti.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
94. K&R nt
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
102. Yep they are trying to throw the party
To get back to the Republicans.

Noticed that awhile ago. One of the reasons Dean is not in the administration.



They running to the sinking ship, not the best tactic.


More shells mates.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
108. This is SO TRUE! Thanks for the post to remind us! n/t
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debannbull Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
109. May I live to see the day I can say "President" Howard Dean....
Broke my heart then, still hurts today.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 08:50 PM
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113. DEAN: The Pro-Life candidates that I was interested in supporting were...
DEAN: The Pro-Life candidates that I was interested in supporting were people who agreed with the Democratic platform in almost every other respect. Therefore, it's very clear, that even a Pro-Life Democrat who may disagree with us on a fundamental issue is a huge improvement over the person who was there before. So, are there some Democrats I would not support? Yesand No I'm not gonna tell you who they are. But there are not many. Most of the Democrats who are Pro-Lifeare very very good on a lot of other issues and I don't want to exclude people like that from out party.

link

Dean's 50-State Strategy was about electing Democrats who agreed with most of the platform.







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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:22 PM
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114. Yes, yes, yes...thanks for posting! K&R, of course! nt
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SpankMe Donating Member (301 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:23 PM
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115. Succinctly and brilliantly put. n/t
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:43 PM
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116. Great Memories of what could have been.. Thanks for the post. n/t
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moksha Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 09:54 PM
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121. Kick and Rec for Dr. Dean!!!
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