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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 03:58 PM
Original message
Growing threat of diseased trees
I recently returned from doing a benefits seminar for Federal Employees working in Federal forrests (bizarre fact - federal employees are unionized by forrests. Some forrests have unionized forrest service employees and other forrests are non unionized. )

One of the speakers had an extensive slide showing the effects of diseased trees.

Having spent my teenage summers in the Cascades and the Rockies I found these pictures really horrifying.

Here is an example but what I saw was much much worse:



From a distance the trees seem to have a normal form and are healthy but when you examine them up closely they are dead.



I visited areas where I recognized trees that I had seen only a couple of years ago and were healthy and vibrant but now are mere skeletons.

Sudden Oak Death Syndrome was first discovered in 1995 but has now become endemic and threatens huge swatches of forrest:

http://www.forestdata.com/sod2.htm

It was first noticed in upper end suburban neighborhoods and was called the "Political Tree Disease".

http://www.forestdata.com/sod03.htm





It was thought that the culprit was SOD, Sudden Oak Disease, caused by a parasitical type fungus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytophthora



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_oak_disease

It was first discovered in California in 1995 when large numbers of tanoaks (Lithocarpus densiflorus) died mysteriously, and was described as a new species of Phytophthora in 2000. It has subsequently been found in many other areas including Britain, Germany, and some other U.S. states, either accidentally introduced in nursery stock, or already present undetected.

In tanoaks, the disease may be recognized by wilting new shoots, older leaves becoming pale green, and after a period of two to three weeks, foliage turns brown while clinging to the branches. Dark brown sap may stain the lower trunk's bark. Bark may split and exude gum, with visible discoloration. After the tree dies, the suckers will try sprout next year, but their tips soon bend and die. Ambrosia beetles (Monarthrum scutellare) will most likely infest a dying tree during midsummer, producing piles of fine white dust near tiny holes. Later, bark beetles (Pseudopityophthorus pubipennis) produce fine red boring dust. Small black domes, the fruiting bodies of the Hypoxylon fungus, may also be present on the bark. Leaf death may occur more than a year after the initial infection and months after the tree has been girdled by beetles.




It spreads from one healthy tree to another until trees lined up next to each other all looking like the same dead corpse sharing a common agony.





Many California Redwood Trees across wide areas are dying or showing signs of severe stress. Greg Guisti, the University of California forest advisor for Mendocino County noted in a Ukiah Daily Journal Article dated May 8, 2002: “…There are also many redwood trees in town that are showing signs of widespread disease…” The questions remain unanswered: Why?

Trees are being cut down in record numbers across the United States without anyone doing the studies to determine why these trees are dying and what is causing this problem. Fires are burning hotter and are more devastating since the late 1980s, and the dying of the trees is certainly aggravating this situation.

Mr. Buckman noted: “I think we are in for big changes, and I think we should be on this ‘like a duck on a June bug’. I think this is as serious as it gets, and we need to act quickly to document the facts and take corrective actions…”

Sudden Oak Death, now blamed for many tree problems, is found rarely or not at all in some counties, and SOD diagnosis does not explain the widespread decline in Oak tree health in trees and counties not infected with SOD, nor does it explain the broad decline and die-off response in trees across the United States.

In a recent article in the Ukiah Daily Journal written by Mark Hedges, titled “Fir Trees Under Attack”, some of the tree symptoms are listed. In an interview with Jack Marshall, a forest pathologist for the California Department of Forestry, he noted “…a few common things going on with the Douglas Fir relative to dry portions of this county, maybe Lake County and southern Humboldt…” However, it should be noted that the impacts are also found throughout these counties not just in the “dry” areas. Marshall, according to the Ukiah Daily Journal article also stated: “…tree-killing insects do not usually attack a healthy stand of trees unless individual trees are somehow stressed or some other pathogen is degrading the health of the tree…”





There is a major concern that all of this dead wood will become fuel for destructive wild fires that will effect healthy forrests


http://nature.berkeley.edu/comtf/pdf/Fire_and_P%20ramor...





Now similar problems are being found in Europe. Given how devistating Dutch Elm Disease was this sounds ominous.


Disease ravaging oak trees 'could be worse for UK than Dutch elm'



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1279628/...


A 'very serious' new disease is killing native oak trees across a wide swathe of Britain. Experts have warned could alter the British landscape more than Dutch elm disease.

The Forestry Commission said the condition acute oak decline (AOD) is hitting both native species of oak, which show black bleeding on the trunks and stems.

The trees can suffer rapid dieback and death within three to five years, experts are warning.
Acute Oak Decline causes black bleeding on the trunks and stems on affected trees (as shown)

Acute Oak Decline causes black bleeding on the trunks and stems on affected trees (as shown)

The practice note from the Forestry Commission, whose research arm Forest Research recently identified bacteria thought to be involved in the disease, is urging woodland managers to be vigilant about the health of their oak trees.

Roddie Burgess, head of the Forestry Commission's plant health service, said: 'It's one where I think they need to take this very seriously.

'We tend to be cautious about what might be seen as scare-mongering, but the signs here are that we are dealing with something that has the markings that it could become something very serious indeed.'

He added: 'We've 200 million oaks in the UK, so if this thing did really take off in the same way as Dutch elm disease, the impact on the landscape and biodiversity would be very significant.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1279628/...




When you take time to look at the actual devistation it is somewhat overwhelming to see so much lifeless matter where healthy vibrant trees cast such a beautiful image just a few short months ago.


A friend of mine who is an expert on parasites say that usually the most effective way to stop a parasite is to find a natural parasite that can attach to the offending parasite "on the inside". Rather than going from tree to tree and trying to combat each parasite it is more effective to get inside the parasitical ecosystem. He is sure that such an entry exists it just takes time for it to spread the infection to the rest of the parasites.
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blueworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for posting this. The silent menaces creep along without MSM notice. n/t
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. I found this... it sounds bad!
Deadly Fungal Disease Sprouts on North Texas Trees
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-beat/Deadly-Fungal-Dis...

"Oak wilt, a deadly fungal disease, has been discovered in patches across North Texas.

The disease plugs the vascular system of red oak and live oak trees and essentially starves the trees of vital nutrients. It can kill a red oak in a just two weeks."

Right in to the heart of the tree and spreads. Dangerous.
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
61. Found another recent story
:-(

http://www.hudsonhubtimes.com/news/article/4868562

"Hudson -- The emerald ash borer is here, and the ash trees will come down one way or another, according to City Arborist Tom Munn."

"If one tree is infected, all the trees in the city are likely infected, Munn said.

The emerald ash borer can kill an ash tree in three to five years.

"It's invasive and comes in quickly," Munn said.

The city expects to lose all of its 689 ash trees within the next 10 years, and homeowners should consider their ash trees infested, Munn said."
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R
:thumbsup:
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. K & R
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
Wow...I had no idea.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. I lost my favorite elm to bark beetles, who stripped every inch of bark from the thing.
I tried commercial spray, tree paint, tree wrap, but nothing worked. Those shiny little bastards with their grasping mandibles just chewed and wedged their bodies deeper and deeper methodically peeling bark like you'd peel an orange. Coincidentally, I was diagnosed with cancer at the time and only one of "us" survived "our" respective malignancy to tell the tale.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thank goodness you conquered your cancer.

I would have found it difficult to decipher "elm" language had the tree survived to tell the story.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
62. You would be amazed what an arborist can "read" from the rings!
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canetoad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Funny how Elms are vulnerable
Here in Melbourne we have many old and stately elms but the scourge is the Elm leaf beetle which is tiny and lays eggs on the leaves, resulting in a very blighted look. I have one in my yard and had advice from an arborist at the beginning of winter. It will be the chainsaw soon.

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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
45. Canetoad,
the beatles leave a fungus behind when they are crawling around the tree. The fungus is what causes Dutch Elm disease, and has been responsible for many elm tree deaths.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #45
64. It is frightening to be sitting in the yard within ear-shot of a slab of bark sliding to the ground.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
59. Ours lost a fourth when I was just a girl - a bit came hurtling in my direction in a wind storm.
A very large bit. The main piece was about 9-12 inches in circumference, but lucky for me, I ran fast enough to be battered only by the smaller branches - and impaled by none.


Dad made me saw my would-be-killer into disposable pieces, and we planted a new Oak in it's place.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #59
65. These beetles are almost surgical in the way they slowly wedge themselves between bark and trunk,
more "scalpel" than "axe".
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
63. I am really sorry!
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. ...
:hug:

I'm so glad you survived to tell us about it. I'm sorry about your tree, though. Isn't it strange the way we become so attached to them? They have a special place in our hearts almost like our pets do.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
68. Did you ever read O'Henry's "The Last Leaf"? It says everything.
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #68
74. That's a tear jerker, as well as Gift of the Magi.
I love all of OHenry's stories.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #68
75. No, I didn't. But I will now. Thank you. :) nt
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Our tree died & we had to have it removed
Edited on Tue Aug-03-10 04:39 PM by SoCalDem
There was some disease that swept through here a while back & Riverside county even imported a specific kind of non-stinging wasp that loved to eat the critters that infested our trees, but it did not work & every tree in our development died or is dying..

I don;t even know what kind of tree we had, but it was 30 yrs old & gave us nice shade
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Not long after we sold our last house the new owners had to remove
the 2 huge trees in the front yard. They were gorgeous. Such a shame.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. An elm tree maybe?
:shrug:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I never knew for sure what it was,. It was about 75 ft tall ..I was sad to have to have it removed
Edited on Tue Aug-03-10 06:31 PM by SoCalDem
but it was mostly dead by that time, and it "spit" sap all over our cars :cry: Meanwhile we have huge oleanders that NOTHING will kill :(
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #25
50. Huge beautiful trees are a selling point for property, and are a pleasure to live with. How sad
... to lose them. They are so life-enhancing when they are healthy and not infested with something.

On another note, however, we have several enormous philodendrons around the yard. There's 3 Nandinas (Heavenly Bamboo) and a very crowded rubber tree. I mention them because over the years they have ALL periodically been cut to the ground, and not one of them has died. The ficus by the front door needs to be hacked back periodically, and one winter when the overnight temp got down to 29F I thought it was dead. But it's a popular tree around town for businesses, and I noticed that all of them had simply been given a severe pruning. Sure enough, mine lived too.

Not the same as having a 75 ft giant, though.

There's a neat book for SoCal gardeners called "Tough Plants for California Gardens: Low Care, No Care, Tried and True Winners."

Hekate
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. The ugly oleanders sit between us and our neighbors, and volunteer palms
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 12:59 AM by SoCalDem
have popped up in the last decade..a few are getting quite beefy :)

A previous neighbor used to dump OIL next to the oleanders & they seemed to love it :grr:

The only thing I like about them is the HUGE bird's nest tucked inside them & the baby birds that come from it :)

We have a wild & wooly tree in the back that is the messiest tree I have every seen, and I grew up with mulberry trees :)
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Oleanders are beautiful in someone else's space. They're too poisonous for me to want them
I'm glad yours has a bird nest. :-)

Hekate
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. We've had problems with trees here too.
Turns out there are many reasons for them having to be removed. Who knew? :shrug:
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. You cannot have the gunk sprayed endlessly by jets hired by the government
Ala Chem trails, and have healthy trees.

Oh, I forgot, that problem doesn't exist!

Except of course in Germany, where the German government has allowed its citizenry to sue in court the NATO jets that are doing that there.

Barium, aluminum, and other chems distort the trees ability to take in the nutrition that they need.

Another culprit is RoundUp - whose glyphosate is now understood* to (again) upset the nutritional surroundings of the microflora in the soil around the trees' roots. Diminished nutrition means the trees end up easy prey for fungus, fior Sudden Oak and otehr diseases, and for various beetles such as the pine beetles.

And so many places (including our National Forests) spray RoundUp. It is used all over the Golden Gate Recreational areas, for instance. And the Marin County water board allows it to be sprayed in areas around the watershed that they are supposed to protect.

*Bob Kremer PhD has had several studies out on this, and Don Huber also addresses this problem.



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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Do you have the link for that article -- I was reading it and then tried to go back
and find it and couldn't get it on google again.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
48. Here are three links for you -
Link One -
2o131cICIgJ:www.gmfreecymru.org/pivotal_papers/glyphosate.html+%22Robert+Kremer%22+%2B+Roundup+%2B+glyphosate+%2B+nutrition&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" target="_blank">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache :92...


Link Two -
6l8o2V6jhAJ:www.i-sis.org.uk/glyphosatePoisonsCrops.php+%22Robert+Kremer%22+%2B+Roundup+%2B+glyphosate+%2B+nutrition&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" target="_blank">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache :D6...
BeCreative Comment left in comment section of this article - 5th July 2010 08:08:18
Thank you so very much for your in depth, succinct article on "Glyphosate Poisons Crops". There are two good bills proposed to the Congress by Congressman Kuinich: Bills HR5577, 5578, and 5579. Yes, simply proposed, but it is a start. We must find a way to "turn around the atitude", well, and education. Most Americans have no clue! I even spoke to a woman who was actually working with vegetables in a grocery who never heard of GMO/GE foods. When I gave her some facts - She was upset! She said: "Why aren't we told this!" (She was in her 60's). I have been trying to think of a way to inspire people and teach them at the same time: "Being Healthy is PATRIOTIC! Staying Healthy IS PATRIOTIC!...We can help our country keep the cost of health care down - by STAYING HEALTHY....etc. By tying together a positive, that will hopefull motivate them - AGAINST GMO FOODS OR GMO INGREDIENTS. What is causing all of our illnesses? (Also need to go against Aspartame and Splenda) This information about the harm of Genetically Modified Food just has to get out to The People: Now especially is the time: the elections of the House of Representatives and The Senate are more important than at any time in our history! Is there anyway that a choosen group of people can contact by email or mail: Men's groups: ie: The Lions Club, Kawanis Club, Shriners - Women's groups, any group of people working with children, churches....even Indian Tribes, Environmental...Give them information that will "grab their attention" and motivate them to thinking more about "what they eat, and how their lives can be more healthy, more enjoyable - if they drop GM food from their diet. Plus, maybe some of them will raise their voices against Monsanto! We can still VOTE WITH OUR DOLLAR: not buying GE food! Hit Monsanto in their wallet! My heart goes out to my country: we are being harmed in so many areas: air, water, our very soil, and our food. Our Democratic voice is being silence on one of the most important rights: The Right To Healthy Food To Eat that will heal and enrich our lives so that we can be a benefit to our Great Country. Thank you so very much for your time and caring. Please keep it up. We need people like you: who work hard to make a difference in this world!


And finally link three -
On the follwoing site - you have to scroll down quite a bit to get first Huber's comments, so don't get lost in the discussion of the water table (First article at the top)
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tg...
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
49. DU is truncating the links - you can try the " tiny url " versions
Instead -

First article is at
http://tinyurl.com/2ddl4mv

Second article is at
http://tinyurl.com/2fezzlz

And third article is at
http://tinyurl.com/2bw5l3x
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Spheric Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R This is fucking hilarious. Thanks for the plug.
:rofl:

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. odd
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Methinks this one posted to the wrong thread
:rofl:
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
51. Plug? Are you pulling the plug on yourself?
Buck up--life's not that bad!

Hekate
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
53. Cocaine is a powerful drug. nt
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
58. Do you work to conserve forests?
That is an admirable job. I bet you could add a wealth of knowledge to this discussion.
I have an tree in the frontyard. I am not sure what is wrong with it. Some of the branches are dead, and the other ones are vibrant. Do you have any idea what could be causing this?
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. It's the emerald ash beetle up here...
We've got restrictions on taking firewood from our home region to the campground or cottage. Serious stuff.

K&R

Sid
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. Here in Minnesota, too. It looks like the ash trees will follow
the elm trees into virtual extinction. Can they be saved? I don't know, but I'm sure the U of M is working on something. Smart people can sometimes stop a disaster from happening. It's too bad there aren't more of them working on the problem, I think.

And, in the meantime, the morons are carting infected wood all over the state, despite the warnings. Uff da!, as we say here in Minnesnowta.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. People don't understand how these diseases
And infestations can spread. Sadly, we could lose a lot of what's good in our world because of idle stupidity and ignorance.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks for posting, bookmarked for later reading. K&R! nt
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. Here it's the Mountain Pine Beetle causing the problem.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. Veeery interesting. nt
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. We have been having problems with spruce bark beetles up here.
They have destroyed entire forest. Sad.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. Grant, what the hell is it with all the damned beetles? In reply after reply
people are talking about beetles. The fire danger close to where I live is outrageous most years due to pine beetles killing the pine trees in the mountains.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
52. It's awful. Parts of the SoCal forests are tinder because of the bark beetles eating at pine trees.
It exacerbates the ferocity of the forest fires, and the major fires are getting closer together.

It's a crisis all right.

Hekate
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
26. The genetically modified trees are invasive and wreaking havoc. Please support their ban
They suck all the water and nutrients out of the soil. Because they're genetically designed to be more resistant to herbicides, it takes a cocktail of poison to kill them.


Genetically modified trees pose the ultimate threat to the world's forests. Unlike food crops, trees can live for hundreds of years. It is impossible to predict what might happen over the life of a tree, how it will be affected
by extremes of heat or cold, for example. If GM trees were to cross with natural trees, invade natural ecosystems and their impacts were to become all too visible, it would be too late. There is no way of recalling them to the laboratory.

...

When faced with criticism of their research into GM trees, forestry scientists have a standard answer: The critic is not an expert and therefore is not really entitled to comment. The science behind GM research is fiendishly complicated. Scientific reports are often written in an technical, academic style which is simply incomprehensible to anyone who
hasn't spent years wrapping their heads round the subject. Yet when asked about their work, some forestry scientists seem strangely reluctant to explain what they are doing.

...

http://www.biothai.org/cgi-bin/content/gmo/show.pl?0008


Corporations are planting them all over the place and it's going to be very hard to get rid of the darn things but the fight is worth it.


<http:/ /Forests Of ArborGen Genetically Modified Trees OK'd For U.S. South[br />
TAMPA, Fla. The commercial paper industry's plans to plant forests of genetically altered eucalyptus trees in seven Southern states have generated more cries from critics worried that such a large introduction of a bioengineered nonnative plant could throw natural ecosystems out of whack.

ArborGen, a biotechnology venture affiliated with three large paper companies, got U.S. Department of Agriculture approval last month for field trials involving as many as 250,000 trees planted at 29 sites during the next few years. Much smaller lots of the genetically altered trees have been growing in some of the states for years.

Australian eucalyptus trees grow faster than native hardwoods and produce high-quality pulp perfect for paper production, but thus far, they have been able to thrive only in very warm climates. South Carolina-based ArborGen genetically altered the trees to withstand freezing temperatures, and the idea with the test forests is to see how far north they can now be grown.

The test sites will cover a total of about 300 acres in Florida, South Carolina, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia and Louisiana.

...

ArborGen is a joint venture of International Paper, MeadWestvaco and Rubicon Ltd.


Please sign this linkand support the Ban on GM Forest Trees

Urgent Alert: Help us STOP

Genetically Engineered (GE) Eucalyptus Trees!

http://globaljusticeecology.org/stopgetrees.php

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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. OMG. Is that right? I had no idea. Good grief. Is there anything
that they won't genetically modify for some stupid reason?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Interesting when I lived in Thailand they were planting huge acerage of Eucalyptus trees
inorder to get fast growth material for paper mills.


many scientists were worried that eucalyptus trees suck up all of the nutrigents out of the soil
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. That was a terrible decision they're going to pay for down the road
The trees are great for producing paper but they're hell on the soil, water, insects, and other plants.

We have them all over in California (deliberately planted) and they're blocking out light for surrounding plants and destroying the soil.

The're ok in marshy areas for draining the soil but planting them all over was a bad idea. Plus they catch fire very easily.

I'm sorry the Thai goverment allowed that because I have a special place in my heart for Thailand.

This here is sad:


In Thailand, farmers call eucalyptus the selfish tree, because eucalyptus plantations remove nutrients from the soil and consume so much water that farmers cannot grow rice in neighbouring fields. Mapuche Indigenous People in Chile refer to pine plantations as planted soldiers, because they are green, in rows and advancing. In Brazil, tree plantations are called a green desert, and in South Africa, green cancer.

http://chrislang.org/2004/12/20/genetically-modified-tr... /


I wish they'd outlaw these things immediately. We're arrogant to think we can improve on a design it took nature millions of years to balance and even more arrogant to think we can outdo her.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
85. I was not at all aware of this problem.
Thank you for all the information.

Will try and do my best to act on it.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
28. Perhaps you should learn to spell "Forest"....
...before attempting to define the problem.
It would help your credibility.

There is a crisis in the forests of our nation, and many trees are dying from a lack of basic nutrition.
There is an overload of toxins and pollutants in our system, and too many people benefit from maintaining the Status Quo.
One way to deal with the crisis is to preserve healthy trees in protected, clean areas of our community.
That is working well, and this approach seems to be spreading.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Yes I have difficulty in repeating consonants. I admit it

Thanks for pointing that out. I noticed that when I started learning other languages my relatively bad spelling got even worse.I will just let it stay that way uncorrected.


Always appreciate the friendly help from the more gifted spellers.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
46. For fucking Pete's sake.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
55. Oh good heavens, bvar. Can't you think of a substantive critique re this crisis?
Being a spelling nazi isn't good for one's own cred when a deep discussion has been initiated. Ordinarily I'd look forward to your posts -- well, still do, just come up with something besides one misspelling/typo.

Hekate

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #55
66. I disagree.
If this were a case of a simple random misspelling or typo, you would have a point.
But when one repeatedly misspells the TOPIC of his essay, it hurts credibility,
and doesn't merit a passing grade.

Wouldn't you discount a post pretending to speak with authority about internal Democrathic Party Politics if they repeatedly misspelled Democrathic Party?

You may have a different opinion,
but when someone can't spell the TOPIC of an essay post, I can't help but believe that he is not very familiar with his subject matter, and is not a reliable source of information.

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #55
69. I, too, found the misspellings rather distracting.
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 09:30 AM by girl gone mad
Call me a "Nazi" if you must.

And this:

"A friend of mine who is an expert on parasites say that usually the most effective way to stop a parasite is to find a natural parasite that can attach to the offending parasite "on the inside". Rather than going from tree to tree and trying to combat each parasite it is more effective to get inside the parasitical ecosystem. He is sure that such an entry exists it just takes time for it to spread the infection to the rest of the parasites."

Just... what the fuck? This is someone tasked with raising funds for forest work? If the typical forest worker is this confused, we might as well all start praying, because the trees have no hope.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #69
80. The phrase you quote seems to accord with science articles I've read about wasps and such
Granted, I'm only a layperson who likes to read Discover, Smithsonian, and the LA Times, and I'm not a scientist -- but still, that paragraph seemed to fit in well with what I've learned over the years about ways of combatting pests by pitting other critters against them. Scientists have even managed to take this to the micro-micro-level with gene-splicing and retroviruses and stuff that makes my head spin.

I really fail to grasp the nature of your angst -- unless you are hinting at problems of the past when the science of ecosystems was not as advanced as it is today. When I lived in Hawai'i as a kid we all knew that the mongoose was introduced to eat the rats, but that they simply worked out some sort of detente and went on as usual. The horrid bufo, or cane toad, was also an introduced species that ran wild and was a much worse problem than mongeese: I don't remember why it didn't slurp up the bugs it was supposed to, but sheesh what a mess.

But don't hint around -- be explicit so I can understand. I'm always eager to learn new things. :hi:

Hekate
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. And so many Elm Streets and Chestnut streets out there
with none of their namesake trees in view. Soon, the Ash streets will join them in Minnesota. Pity. The once mighty trees are brought down by blight, fungus, and insects. When will it all end?
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Interestingly there is an effort being made to save
Edited on Tue Aug-03-10 07:40 PM by POAS
the Elm Tree from the blight and bring it back.

Scientists found an Elm that is highly resistant to the disease and have been cloning it and selling the cloned offspring. It is called the Princeton American Elm. Here is a link to a FAQ page about the tree:

http://www.americanelm.com/elm_faqs.html

The pictures I have seen of the street I grew up on before I was born show that it was a shady elm lined cathedral of an avenue. In a few years the infestation had destroyed every tree in the city.

Now perhaps even a blight as devastating as the "Dutch Elm Disease" can at last be mitigated, if not eliminated.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. So, if these Elm trees are planted, they'll all be clones?
I don't know, that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen a few years down the road. All those identical Elms, with identical genetics. Diversity is the key to hardiness, I think. A bunch of Elm clones would probably fall victim to a disease or something before too long, and disappear, too.

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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. delete
Edited on Tue Aug-03-10 07:41 PM by POAS
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. From the faq
No. Our Princeton elms are grown from cuttings off of trees descended from the original Princeton elm first selected in 1920 for its classic American elm attributes. They are produced on their own root. Elms grown from seed would not reliably exhibit these classic attributes nor have the high tolerance to Dutch Elm Disease, which makes the Princeton elm so remarkable.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. So, each has its own root, but the grafted portions are alike?
Hmm...unique roots but shared genetics otherwise. Maybe that will work.
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I don't know about the "sex" and reproduciton
possibilities but if that is a problem I'm sure they are working on a fix.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
86. No, they are still all clones
Softwood cuttings are taken in early spring, the ends are dipped in rooting hormone, and the cuttings are placed in high humidity in free-draining media (usually sand) and constantly misted with overhead misting systems until they grow roots of their own. The roots they grow are their own, from cells "reprogrammed" to express roots rather than bark or leaves by the rooting hormone mixture.

The genetics of each Princeton elm will be virtually identical, so your original concern of limited genetic diversity is correct.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #32
67. I have several elm trees in my yard
I planted them about 10 years ago. Most of them are Lacebark Elms which are highly resistant to DED. I also planted a Cedar Elm, which is somewhat more susceptible, but there hadn't been much trouble with the disease in Texas, at least at that time. It grew to about 40' tall before DED got it during a time when lots of other people were losing them also. Fortunately I planted all my elm trees with ample spacing so root grafts didn't take any of the others.

Lacebark Elms are beautiful. I daresay they are the perfect tree. They get big and make excellent shade trees, but not too big. They do put out seed pods, but they are small and don't make nearly the mess such as with acorns on oak trees. They proliferate with thin branches, so they don't collapse with high snow loads (at least not as bad as some trees). They are fast growing, but solid and strong when mature.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
87. American chestnuts, at least, are close to making a comeback
The American Chestnut Foundation and the American Chestnut Cooperators Foundation are both working on bringing them back after their virtual extinction east of the Mississippi by chestnut blight. They are using a variety of methods, ranging from selective breeding of surviving American chestnuts that might show resistance, to cross-breeding with blight-resistant Chinese chestnuts, to minor genetic engineering to insert resistance genes into American chestnut seedlings. Both organizations say they are within a few years of producing a reliably resistant, virtually pure American chestnut tree.

Me, I am not as concerned with complete purity so I have 15 hybrid chestnuts from Oikos Tree Crops in my yard here in Minnesota. They're "only" 90% American chestnut genetically, with Chinese and Japanese parentage supplying blight resistance, but since I'm focusing more on nut production than reintroducing a nearly extinct species I don't mind.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
30. We have two enormous old oak trees that sit at the edge of our front property,
I can't imagine losing them.

These pictures are frightening indeed.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
37. "Forest" is to trees as "Forrest" is to Gump.
Got wood?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. As Forrest said,
"Stupid is as stupid does."
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #37
70. Welp you are right on one count, this post about trees not shrimp, and yeah got wood.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #37
83. !
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 04:31 PM by NMDemDist2
:spray: :rofl:

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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-03-10 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
44. K&R
:-(
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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
47. Many of my big white oaks appear to be dying.
The leaves are browning from the tips/edges.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. Native American prophecy; trees dying from the top down
herald the end of Nature (and of us). Considering that trees release a lifetime of stored CO2 when they die it may not be so far off base.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
60. K&R!
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 03:02 AM by Whisp
the thing with elms is that if you have one bad one with disease, the rest will follow. It's really catchy, to that certain kind of tree, that is.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
71. Oak trees falling can be deadly
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 09:21 AM by NJmaverick
They are so big and they don't always show they are sick before falling
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #71
84. Indeed. n/t
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
72. Read "No Blade of Grass". A chilling book about all vegetation on earth dying.
It was written 50 years ago but what's in that book could happen today as man defiles nature and creates mutant species.
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
73. Thank you for posting this Grantcart. Our family recently discussed all the dead trees and wondered
what may be causing it. I first noticed them in June on a drive through some smaller towns around here and mentioned it to family members so they began to pay attention. It's amazing how many seemed healthy last year and this year there isn't a leaf on them.



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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #73
81. It has always amazed me what I can learn at DU, even if sometimes very sad.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
76. Beetle kill ravages forests in my area.
One of the factors making trees susceptible is over-crowding. I've long thought that the timber industry is at least partially culpable, with their preference for clear-cutting and over-planting instead of selected thinning to maintain a healthy forest.

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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
77. Interesting. nt
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
78. I was going to respond about emerald ash borers in Minnesota,
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 11:43 AM by myrna minx
but after reading many of the responses here, it seems like this is some sort of 'inside joke' or something. Respectfully backing away.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
79. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
82. k and r
I'm glad I'm old and didn't reproduce. This is a warning. Mother Nature has had it with humans.
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