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N_E_1 for Tennis Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:54 AM
Original message
Hillary in 2012?
This is an interesting scenario I found posted at "It Begs The Question" a weblog by Larry Wohlemuth.

A little background on Larry:





Born in Topeka, Kansas, USA, Larry Wohlgemuth brings with him a seasoned perspective and presents his views with a matter of fact and sometimes caustic style. Wohlgemuth sees today’s mass media as being owned by a handful of major corporations who use it as an outlet for public relations and propaganda. He believes these companies then sell contrived notions of truth based on what they want the masses to believe and people everywhere constantly fall into line, carrying out mandates against their own self-interest as a result. Wohlgemuth can’t help but howl at the moon when he sees examples of such mind-control and is driven to write for this very reason. He sees the overall American populace as some of the least informed and most jingoistic people on the planet, and it is his strongest desire to open people’s eyes and reignite their questioning natures. Wohlgemuth runs his own informative blog at It Begs the Question and brings an unfiltered and immutable perspective to RELATIVITY OnLine’s all star cast of international characters.





Here's his take on the 2012 presidential run. I can't say that I'm in favor of the scene, I can't say I'm against it. This will take much more contemplative thought in my mind to even say good or bad.
Love to hear your take on it.

Think I'll sit back and watch the ideas roll forth.






Hillary in 2012?
By Larry Wohlgemuth, on July 26th, 2010
It’s a long ways off, and it’s hard to imagine that Barack Obama has already been president 18 months, but I have to wonder. My friend, the union organizer, was the first to propose that we might be in for a change in 2012. He’s hearing things that are filtering down which suggest there’s a strategy at work.

You have to wonder if it’s possible, I mean could a sitting Secretary of State primary a sitting President of the United States? If you look at how things are shaking out it seems like the most logical alternative. My friend’s even suggesting that Obama may choose not to run. It begs the question, will we see Hillary Clinton run for president in 2012?


Let’s start at the beginning. Barack Obama inherited the worst set of circumstances of any president since the Great Depression, and he’s handled it magnificently. We’re the only industrialized nation without universal health care coverage, and he passed landmark legislation moving us in that direction. He’s pushed through legislation to control banks that rape, pillage and plunder the American people. With these and all of his other accomplishments he’ll be recognized with Lincoln and FDR as a man who helped save the Republic. Someday. But it’s taking a toll today.

The Republican Party is burdened with a xenophobic element, and Obama will suffer racially motivated attacks unlike any we’ve ever seen. Throw into the mix the revenge-minded corporations and the dimwitted teabaggers that foolishly vote against their self-interest, and it’s easy to see his re-election campaign will be brutal. Add in the fact that the economy will probably remain on shaky ground as Republicans work to defeat recovery legislation at every turn, and his re-election could prove problematic. Enter Hillary Clinton.






Get The Rest of The Story at;

http://itbegsthequestion.com/?p=825#more-825


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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary in 2012???
That's funny.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Like Hill would fare much better against the Party of No.
It would be twice as bad.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Her position on issues is not much (if any) better than Obama's. But she does have more
experience with the reality of politics, especially in DC, and might be better able to fight for Democratic causes.

IF]/b] she really wanted to...

OTOH, it would really be nice to have a real Democrat in the Oval Office. Neither of these center-right corporatists qualify for that designation.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
31. Nope, as T Wolf points out, Hillary is seasoned, Obama was and still is a neophyte to all this crap
that is known as Washington.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. Obama has gotten everything he and his DLC coalition has wanted.
N/T
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Not gonna happen. Nt
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. That is pure fantasy
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. Mon dieu......
:popcorn:


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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. .
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. I was a Hillary supporter in the 2008 primaries....
... and I agree with you.

She won't run. I don't think she would even if Obama asked her to, and I don't think that will happen either.

It's stupid BS to even talk about, but there are apparently a lot of stupid people out there...
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. The republicans especially Fox are pushing this
they want to try to start a split again. Hillary won't run. Fox prophesies about this all the time. Maybe they think since CNN thinks they are GOD they will pick it up also and start the fur flying.

I do think one thing, if she had been in, she wouldn't "kiss" republican butt and ask for their permission to do something, like it is happening she would "kick" republican butt and tell them to sit down.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. You've got that right. I don't know why people keep bringing it up. It's not gonna happen.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
8. I heard she's making a bid for
2024
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. She couldn't close the deal in 08 even after she held a
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 08:24 AM by saltpoint
commanding lead in national polling for over a year, even after she cleared Vilsack, Bayh, and Warner out of the way, losing to Obama and Edwards in Iowa, she only barely won in New Hampshire, and despite a few wins in early spring when only Obama was still in the race she still couldn't manage it.

She was crushed in Wisconsin, one of the classic battleground primary states. She nipped a victory in Indiana by the slimmest of margins, defeated soundly in the Carolinas, and even lost Missouri despite the Associated Press projection of her winning. They had to retract their projection, as Obama won Missouri.

Her campaign staff needed a choreographer, several editors, far more grown-ups, and a dozen psychotherapists.

I'm not seeing how she'd be any better a second time around on top of there being no rationale to nominate her in the first place.

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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
34. Nice listing of all she lost...then tell me how she made it the closest race ever?
I know a lot of people who voted for Obama having buyers' remorse...Hillary now seems to them what could have been. But she'll only run if Obama bows out,a nd that ain't gonna happen.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. When you lose a year's lead in national polling and
finish third in Iowa you're at the head of an unsustainable campaign, IMO.

I see no stats on "buyers' remorse" and would reassert my thoughts in previous threads that Obama's base remains strong and is more than enough to re-elect him.

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ericinne Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. It won't happen
Won't happen, but if it DID... honestly... I'd vote for Hillary over Obama... why? Because I want a President who can grow a pair and man up to the right wing spin machine.. The current one seems incapable of ever doing so. I donated all kinds of money to help get him elected... whatever I could afford. Didn't even consider Hillary... looking back, I guess honestly I'd be more inclined to give Hillary a second look after all.
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Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
11. Keep wishing.
Not gonna happen.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. Policy-wise, there is little difference between Hillary and Obama.
The primary wars were just more cult of personality.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
13. As usual, there will be no orderly discussion of this, simply bashing by the haters
good luck, oh and IBTL as the haters will find a way to shut this down.
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Gravel Democrat Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. ~300, 000,000 people
yet the same few names keep coming up over and over and over again

This was where the current Admin was supposed to be different. Along came Rham and Biden and a whole stadium full.

just once if the people united across party lines and threw out every single incumbent regardless of the meaningless letter dangling after their names these employees might start to understand who they work for.

But our "Leaders" know we're too stupid to actually do something effective

And oh how we love to hate. Hate hate hate.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
15. I thought the primary was over? nt
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. This is for the 2012 primary, along with a handful
of other posts expressing similar wishes.

It follows the previous couple weeks' Richard Nixon Was A Liberal campaign.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. I think she's doing great as SoS, but not for a 2012 primary bid nt
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yep. I don't think running for president is in the
cards for HClinton.

She had her shot in 08. I don't see the Democratic Party turning to her as a leader for 2012 when they have Barack Obama.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. I can't stop laughing long enough to clean up the coffee. Hillary's too smart; she isn't going
to drown her political aspirations by even trying.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. Oh, no here we go again....
:banghead:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
20. Perhaps "Humphrey 2012"
The Politics of Joy?
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Hubert Humphrey was a hero of mine growing up
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. I liked him, too.
Especially in his pre-VP days. My point is that Clinton is no more likely to be the democratic candidate in 2012 than HHH.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
25. Yes, because as we all know, Hillary is SUCH the economic progressive.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
27. As a HRC supporter in the primaries I became TOTAL Obama AS DID SHE
She definitively told her supporters to the last, most die hard that it was all over and IT IS and, frankly, I have no regrets to the CLINTON chapter being what it was in its time and BEING DONE.

This Hillary meme is rampant on Faux & Friends and other wingnut venues, and that speaks for what it is.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
29. Any Democratic other than Pres. Obama running in 2012 would lose to the Repub. n/t
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. I doubt that...I think Obama has a good shot at losing in 2012 if the repukes
nominate someone not puke-worthy.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
30. As long as we're speculating on primary challengers in 2012 ...
how about Bernie Sanders?
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
33. If I were Hillary I'd tell the Democrats to kiss my ass. She should quit at the end
Of Obama's first term. Set up a foundation for women in third world countries and lobby for womens reproductive rights and womens political, religious and economic rights. She and Bill could work together through both their foundations for a better world.

If i were Hillary I'd put the Democratic party in my rearview mirror and never look back.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
35. What the fuck for? I wasn't going to vote for her in the primary because I already
knew she had corporatist leanings. Why the fuck would I consider her again?
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
36. If "Obama may choose not to run"...
If "Obama may choose not to run" then Hillary would probably end up as the nominee.

True.

But a rather comical "if"
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
37. I said it in another thread about this and I'll say it again. Not. Gonna. Happen.
The only way I see it being even remotely possible would be if Obama screwed the pooch so badly that he decided not to run for reelection in 2012, like LBJ in 1968. Then, the field would be open, and Hillary could be one person who'd think about running. More likely in that scenario, the Democratic heavyweights would sit it out and let some sacrificial lamb take the nomination and get slaughtered.

But in the vastly most likely scenario, Obama runs for reelection in 2012, is almost certain to be reelected, and Hillary won't challenge him.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
38. Will not happen. Hillary's allegiance is to the Democratic
Party. Obama will not have a serious primary challenger in 2012.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
40. "Think I'll sit back and watch the ideas roll forth." -- Bwah-HAH!1 n/t
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
41. Some People Sure Are Naive
Obama is the Democratic candidate in 2012 unless death or illness prevent it.

However, if ANYONE would like to bet against that, I'm your huckleberry.

I'll take Obama and you can have everyone else on the planet. I'll give you 100:1 odds as well.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
42. Whether she runs or not
I still prefer Obama. I'm not very happy with quite a few of his decisions but I don't think Clinton would be very much better.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
43. Like a choice between Pablum and Pablum.
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name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
44. I see someone's still sore about the primaries.
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