Washington Post editorial congratulates Rhee on teacher firings

[Spagettio]

Washingto Post, July 25, 2010:

"It's important to stress that termination decisions were made after each teacher underwent a thorough review based on the district's new teacher evaluation system, known as IMPACT, that combined observations of teachers with student test score data. IMPACT replaced a completely subjective system, so it is hard to accept arguments about the new system -- with precise standards, multiple observations by experts and clear expectations -- being unfair.

It's also hard to swallow the argument by some that Ms. Rhee is moving too fast. Whose children do they propose sit in the classrooms of ineffective teachers? It's worrisome enough to think about the children who will be taught this fall by teachers who have been judged "minimally ineffective." Union leaders have signaled plans to file grievances over all the dismissals. That's their right; but a better use of their time might be to work with Ms. Rhee to improve the performance of the 737 teachers in danger of losing their jobs next year."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/24/AR2010072402220.html

[LWolf]

1. Any system that

uses students' scores as part of the evaluation process is corrupt. Teachers are not the only factor that impacts, pun intended, student achievement and standardized test scores, yet Rhee, the Washington Post, Duncan, and Obama are pleased to assign us all of the responsibility for them. It's hard to accept that using a measure that teachers don't fully control is unfair?

Bullshit.

[Recursion]

19. This is also a system in which the mayors/city council had a history...

...of making the school system hire any friend or political ally they wanted to do a favor for. (Also, the school system has bounced back and forth between whether the mayor or the council or some combination of them is in charge of it.)

They're still there, still "teaching". What should Rhee do about it?

[LWolf]

20. I have a couple of questions about that.

How does the mayor or city council "make" an elected school board do anything?

Or is this one of those situations in which schools are run by the mayor and a CEO, instead of a school board? Is a "chancellor" a city employee under the direction of city government, or a district employee directed by a district board of education?

How can they hire anyone without a proper license, without breaking the law?

The same way Rhee got her 3 years experience in a classroom? She's TFA. Perhaps that's why she's anxious to fire so many; to replace them with TFA temporary, less skilled, less qualified, cheaper teachers.

If there are teachers that got their jobs through corrupt processes, first fix the way teachers are hired. If those in place now aren't competent, use due process, in the current contract, to fire them. Don't implement an already corrupt evaluation process as a tool to skirt due process.

What should Rhee do? Perhaps find a job that she's qualified to do. What should D.C. do about all those teachers?

How about support them in their efforts to teach? Address the real sources of failure.

[Recursion]

21. A brief lesson on the insanity that is the local DC government

How does the mayor or city council "make" an elected school board do anything? Or is this one of those situations in which schools are run by the mayor and a CEO, instead of a school board? Is a "chancellor" a city employee under the direction of city government, or a district employee directed by a district board of education?

Which setup DC is depends on what day of the week it is. I'm half-serious. the schools have bounced back and forth among:

1. An elected school board independent of the mayor and council
2. An elected school board reporting to the mayor
3. An elected school board reporting to the council
4. Federal receivership (Congress does this every few years, then gets bored and puts it back under home rule)
5. A chancellor appointed by the mayor and directly responsible to him, with nominal reporting requirements to the council

#5 is where we are at currently. Expect a change if Fenty isn't re-elected mayor (Rhee has said she's only interested in working for Fenty because he is the only politician who has agreed to back her in shaking out the dead wood in the school system).

How can they hire anyone without a proper license, without breaking the law?

This is Marion Barry we're talking about, for God's sake. Staying legal wasn't exactly his priority. The city government was absurdly corrupt and nepotistic for decades and that affected the school system very strongly.

What should Rhee do? Perhaps find a job that she's qualified to do.

A whole lot of people in DC really like what she's doing. And she's done a decent job of staring down the charter school forces.


The same way Rhee got her 3 years experience in a classroom? She's TFA. Perhaps that's why she's anxious to fire so many; to replace them with TFA temporary, less skilled, less qualified, cheaper teachers.

Or, she's absolutely sick to death of the cover-each-others-ass attitude of the good-old-boy/girl network in the DC school system and wants to bring in new blood that doesn't owe favors to the city's power brokers.

(Incidentally, I don't care whether she has any classroom experience at all; George Steinbrenner never hit a baseball in his life as far as I know.)

[LWolf]

25. That's a clusterfuck of unusual proportions.

I'd suggest that the first step would be to go back to an elected school board with no interference from the city, and to stay that way. Bouncing around from one head to another every few years is insanity.

I'm sorry that Rhee, or you, or both, think the "deadwood" is the teaching staff. It sounds like, if firings are in order, they need to start at the top.

The bottom line, though: IMPACT is not a valid evaluation tool, therefore using it to fire teachers is corrupt.

[Recursion]

26. Hey, I said it's DC, didn't I?

:)

I love that city but my God the local government can drive you mad.

I'd suggest that the first step would be to go back to an elected school board with no interference from the city, and to stay that way. Bouncing around from one head to another every few years is insanity.

It has been extremely traumatic to the teachers I knew. Usually the changes happen to keep Congress from putting the school system into receivership, which it threatens to do every so often (and sometimes does). Until DC has true home rule this will continue to be a problem, I'm afraid (this is the only public school system in the country that Congress has the authority to put into receivership directly).

The bottom line, though: IMPACT is not a valid evaluation tool, therefore using it to fire teachers is corrupt.

Of course it's not a valid evaluation tool. The fired teachers are being fired because they're part of the old-guard machine politics days and people are tired of how it's impossible to get rid of them because of those same machine politics. So they gave Rhee and instrument that's so wildly subjective as to make her able to basically fire anyone she wants, which was the whole point of this exercise: to get somebody to go in and get rid of all the people who should never have been hired in the first place.

It's an ugly solution to an even uglier problem. And I have absolutely no doubt at all that there will be collateral damage, with effective teachers losing their jobs. As much as that sucks, having banged my head against the corrupt, nepotistic glacier that is the DC public schools for several years (I tried to start an after-school program to teach kids how to fix computers so that the .com I worked for could hire local high school grads -- I'll write up the three-year odyssey of corruption, short-sightedness, and aversion to change that that was at some point), it honestly seems like chemo: yes, you'll lose some healthy cells, and that sucks, but you have to do what it takes to get rid of the tumor.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. You are actually comparing an owner of a baseball team to a school chancellor

Wow.

I would imagine parents care if Rhee actually has classroom experience. They also might care if she is honest. See, that's why there is such confusion about her background in education. She has embellished her resume considerably.

OFFICIAL RHEE BIOGRAPHY: Michelle Rhee’s commitment to excellence in education began in 1992, when she joined Teach For America after earning her Bachelor’s degree in Government from Cornell University. Her teaching career started at Harlem Park Community School in Baltimore, MD, where her outstanding success in the classroom earned her acclaim on Good Morning America and The Home Show, as well as in the Wall Street Journal and the Hartford Courant.

---------

Creds to Daily Howler, an investigation of Rhee’s claims, in July, 2007, found her claims wanting. No evidence of “outstanding success,” no evidence of acclaim on “Good Morning America, the “Home Show,” the Hartford Courant or the Wall Street Journal, and, no evidence of dramatic increases in achievement.
http://mets2006.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/trust-me-says-michelle-aphorism-when-the-powerful-say-trust-me-the-powerless-tend-to-get-pregnant/

Then there's the data from her school where her stellar work supposedly earned that acclaim on GMA and in the WSJ.

As we’ve noted, the school was part of a nine-school privatization experiment in Baltimore, run by Education Alternatives (EAI); the effort got some national coverage until its demise in December 1995. But the Journal’s first article on this subject appeared in September 1992, at the start of Rhee’s first year as a teacher. Rhee wasn’t mentioned in the report—and the Journal’s Gary Putka seemed to have found little success at the school, outstanding or otherwise. (“The start has been less than auspicious,” he wrote, “leading to some dire predictions about the initiative's chances.”)

-------

Presumably, Harlem Park would have been one of the seven schools tested. The MSPAPs were given in grades 3, 5 and 8, which would have included this school; in February 1995, Thompson had reported Harlem Park’s scores on the 1994 MSPAPs. (They had slightly declined, she reported.) But 1994-95 was the year when Rhee was producing her educational miracle among Harlem Park’s third graders (supposedly measured on a different test, the nationally-normed CTBS). And remember, Rhee was co-teaching with another young teacher; the miracle she had authored would have affected two third-grade classes. But somehow, despite this educational miracle, Harlem Park seems to be one of the schools that failed to produce even the modest, five-percent gain on the MSPAP which Golle, the EAI chieftain, had hailed. It looks as if the educational miracle failed to show up on this test.

And according to Rhee herself: "I saw that students who were performing far below grade level quickly achieve at the highest levels if they were exposed to a quality academic program."

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071107.shtml

[Recursion]

39. Both run big-budget organizations with powerful unions

And neither require the skill set that define a good baseball player or teacher.

[Dinger]

37. "How does the mayor or city council "make" an elected school board do anything?"

Exactly.

[Recursion]

38. Back when DC had an elected school board, that was a good point

But that was two receiverships ago (or maybe three).

[dsc]

2. I think they should be judged the very same way

Tests should be given to Washington Post readers about subjects like global warming, the war in Iraq and other current events. If their readers aren't proficient then the editors and reporters of the Washington Post should be fired.

[Spagettio]

3. Lol great idea

They do a terrible job explaining everything, from the justification of wars to education, health, etc.

[Catshrink]

5. Right on...

and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[YvonneCa]

8. Love it! And it's quite...

...appropriate. :)

[Starry Messenger]

9. !!!

Yes! :thumbsup:

[Recursion]

22. OK, what's the difference in Washington Post editors and teachers?

The editors of the Washington Post will get fired when the paper's revenue falls enough below its costs that they lose the board's confidence. Their revenue comes from circulation and advertisement. If people stop buying it, both sources of revenue will fall and the editors will eventually get the axe. So people who don't like the editorial board of Wa Po have a recourse.

What's a parent's recourse if his daughter's history teacher is teaching that the US declared independence from France in 1772? (yes, this happened in DC.)

[anigbrowl]

30. Obviously the WaPo ahould fire underperforming readers

I see some DUers asking why teachers don't get to fire bad students. :eyes:

[Recursion]

31. Well, charter schools seem to be precisely the "fire bad students" idea, no? NT

[anigbrowl]

33. i think it's a bit more complex than that.

Of course, some have employed such tactics to fudge results and have been rightfully shut down as a result.

[dsc]

32. actually the Washington post disagrees with you as to what their job is

They have repeatedly stated that providing information is the main job not making money. I am simply taking them at their word.

[DrDan]

4. I wonder how many parents were fired.

[Recursion]

15. In DC? Quite a few

CPS is trigger-happy in DC and has been accused more than a few times of doing "favors" for politicians by taking away kids of constituents who complain too much.

[DrDan]

16. my point was posted obscurely . . . teachers are being fired based on student results

yet parents should be also be held responsible for those results. All too often, the parents are willing to relinquish full responsibility and blame the teachers for academic failure.

[Recursion]

18. Yes, I was making a tangential post

You're right that it's unfair to blame teachers for everything.

A lot of parents in DC, though, feel like the teachers who suck at their jobs are never held accountable for being horrible teachers and the administration finds it impossible to fire them because of patronage and cronyism.

Fenty is the first mayor to not have ties to the Marion Barry old days. Rhee is the first chancellor to work for a mayor who will allow the chancellor to get rid of teachers. Lots and lots of DC parents are glad somebody is shaking up the faculty in DCPS because they are tired of feeling like the teachers who are bad at their job are never held accountable for that.

Hell, in the last wave of dismissals she caught just as much hell from outside the District as she is now, and those were teachers who done stuff like hit students.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. "teachers who done stuff like hit students"

I don't suppose you have any links or evidence to support this ludicrous statement? Or are you just repeating office gossip?

I'm suspecting your source is as reliable as your grammar.

[Recursion]

27. "Teachers who have done stuff"

That's what I get for typing quickly. (And, yes, I know failing to proofread when you know the rules is a worse sin than not knowing them in the first place. The worst part is I'm working as a tech writer now...)

That was Rhee's own statement on the first round of firings. She got in trouble because not all of them had hit kids, only some of them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. No she got in trouble because she claimed they had sexually molested students

And that claim was false.

[Recursion]

35. She claimed both physical and sexual abuse

(I was leaving the sexual abuse out because it's such an emotional issue for people.)

The problem in both cases was that only some of the teachers she fired had abused the students.

[Recursion]

6. Pretty much every chancellor has tried to fire these same teachers for 20 years

And DC has cycled through chancellors ever 2 years or so.

Now, maybe these were excellent teachers who had been unfairly targeted by chancellor after chancellor after chancellor.

Or maybe, just possibly, there were in fact a whole bunch of bad teachers in the DC public schools that parents and administrators had been trying very hard to get rid of for a long time but bureaucratic inertia was keeping them in the classrooms.

[Catshrink]

7. Yeah, they should just fire all of them

and replace them with Teach for America "teachers." That way the test scores will soar!

[Recursion]

10. Wow! What a condescending way to completely ignore what I said!

This is fun, kids, let's try it at home. Now it's my turn:

Once anybody has been hired as a public school teacher, ever, they can never be fired and should be paid based solely on seniority and nothing else.

Wasn't that fun?

[Catshrink]

11. And what an ignorant response

shows you don't know what you're talking about. Teachers can indeed be fired - and are.

[Recursion]

12. Aaaarggghhh! It's as ignorant as what you said, which was the point

You made a vacuous, ignorant reply so I made one too.

Let's start again more civilly:

For a long time, a lot of parents and administrators in DC have been concerned about a large number of teachers in the DC public school system that -- fairly or unfairly -- they don't think should be in the classroom.

For years, chancellor after chancellor have tried to get rid of these teachers. Rhee finally succeeded.

Is it at least conceivable to you, that there were in fact a group of teachers in the DC public school system that were in fact very bad at their jobs, and bureaucratic inertia was making it impossible for parents and administrators to get rid of them?

I think if you haven't lived in DC it can be difficult to imagine how corrupt and nepotistic the city government has been for a long time.

[Recursion]

13. Fine, let me close the simple gap you seem to be missing

If Rhee wanted to fire all teachers, why didn't she?

[Arkana]

14. Washington? That's where the White House is!

FUCKING OBAMA SCREWING US AGAIN ARGH

[ibegurpard]

17. Charter schools to the rescue!

Go Arne!

[Recursion]

23. Rhee has stared down the pro-charter faction pretty well

Charters were popping up everywhere under the Williams administration and she's exerted enough pressure to slow that down significantly, and stop the pillaging of the DCPS physical plant by every yahoo with an idea for a school and a powerpoint presentation.

[Recursion]

34. A caller to Kojo on Friday said it best

I just caught the podcast. What he said was:

If the teachers don't like the evaluation system, they should develop an evaluation system of their own. This isn't an example of a bad evaluation system replacing a good one, this is an evaluation system being put in where there is none at all. The problem is teachers feel like they are entitled to their job no matter what their performance is. That might work at the DMV, but we can't keep subjecting our children to it.

(Tom Sherwood then said "they're not blowing up a system that people have complained about for six months, they're blowing up a system that people have complained about for 50 years".)

The next guest then pointed out the problems with DC's teacher certification system and how it doesn't actually certify anything about anyone.

EDIT:

OUCH! Kojo basically put it full force to Nathan Saunders (VP of the DC teacher's union):

"In that entire response you talked about the importance of the teachers for the stability of the African-American community and the need for adults to keep jobs, but you did not once mention the education of the students."

That's what is pissing pro-Rhee people off.

[AlabamaLibrul]

36. IMPACT on teachers for having to follow score-based "evaluation" (eom)