I TRIED to give a fuck about the Clinton wedding. I did. Honest.

[cherokeeprogressive]

Last night, I sat here and furrowed my brow, wrinkled my nose, gnashed my teeth (I even tried wailing while I was doing that), pursed my lips, hell I tried everything. Do you know what? No matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't work up a heartbeats worth of emotion about it. I even tried seeing it from both sides. I sat at one end of the couch and put on my "it's their money" hat. Nothing. Then I sat at the other end and put on my "they suck for their conspicuous consumption" hat. Again, nothing.

They are who they are, we are who we are, and never the twain shall meet.

Meanwhile, my gay Daughter still can't get married, innocent civilians and American service members are dying in countries on the other side of the world for no reason, BushCheneyRove go un-indicted, and six houses within ten doors of mine are in foreclosure. That kind of meat, I can sink my teeth into. The child of hundred-millionaires getting married? Not so much.

[Fumesucker]

1. Your'e a better person than I..

I never tried to give a damn..

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. I was trying to be part of the crowd.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. My dear cherokeeprogressive...

I am with you. On ALL your excellent points.

:hi:

[A HERETIC I AM]

4. While you and I don't agree on everything...

We couldn't agree more on this one.

The marriage of Chelsea Clinton absolutely PEGS my Give a Shitometer well past zero.




The recent threads on this subject on this board push the limits of IDON'TGIVEAFUCKIZATION to new limits.

[Golden Raisin]

20. Absolutely adore the

"Giveashitometer".

[otohara]

5. Congratulations Chelsea & Marc

:toast: :party: :toast:

[Heidi]

6. Recommended.

:kick:

[onethatcares]

7. it didn't faze me a bit.

for some reason I have the same concern for what they do as they have for what I do.

Did that sum it up?

[Oregone]

8. Its sad that public displays of inequality have no bearing on you

Its everyone's business, and everyone's justified right to be outraged at what this corrupt system allows

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. Bullshit.

It is NO ONES business how two people decide how to celebrate the wedding of their child (their ONLY child, mind you) anymore than it is anyone's business what color my washcloth is.

everyone's justified right to be outraged at what this corrupt system allows

You know, if the Clinton's had literally stolen the money they have, of if they had come by it because they were dictators of some foreign country and raped it financially, then I might think you have a point. But just because you don't like the idea that wealthy people tend to spend money in a lavish fashion, doesn't make this occasion one that rises to something allowed by a "corrupt system".

Shit fire, these two don't own the patent on the color blue, for fucks sake. They got what they have through smarts and hard work. If you think it was just handed to them, as if they are the children of some great American fortune, you're wrong.

Even if they were, still, WHO GIVES A SHIT?

God damn.

Get over it already.

[Oregone]

11. Its everyone's business

Not the fact they want to spend money on a wedding...thats just the Red Herring obscuring the elephant in the room. Rather, Im talking about the system that produces mass disparity that makes a wedding that extravagant possible. Its all our business because that wealth those elite have is generated through the labor of all of mankind (and distributed straight to the top). The system is corrupt, benefitting a few, and weddings such as this are perfect times to discuss the *how* behind the event (and its a how that is worthy of outrage).


"But just because you don't like the idea"

Strawman to hide the real issue


"how two people decide how to celebrate"

Merely a distraction


"They got what they have through smarts and hard work"

No one lives on a vacuum. It takes a village to produce a millionaire.


"If you think it was just handed to them"

Creating more strawmen to argue with?


"Even if they were, still, WHO GIVES A SHIT?"

We ALL should


"Get over it already."

I won't be shouted down because I don't think like everyone else. Inequality is nothing to "get over".



Instead of creating fake reasons for my outrage, or distracting tangents, you can reply directly to the concerns Ive already posted (here or there, I don't give a damn):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8802128">Why Weddings Matter

[A HERETIC I AM]

15. If you actually think there is a system that could be implemented that would allow for financial...

parity amongst all people and at the same time offer even a modicum of the freedom we all take for granted, then you're laboring under a massive misapprehension.

"But just because you don't like the idea"

Strawman to hide the real issue

No, it isn't a Strawman because you clearly don't like the idea and it is therefore relevant.

"how two people decide how to celebrate"

Merely a distraction

Not a distraction by any means. It is entirely the point, just as it is with any other couple who decide to have a wedding that is any more involved or elaborate than the two of them standing before a Justice of the Peace.

"They got what they have through smarts and hard work"

No one lives on a vacuum. It takes a village to produce a millionaire.

On this, you might be right. But how do you know they didn't invite the entire village?

"If you think it was just handed to them"

Creating more strawmen to argue with?

To quote Inigo Montoya, "I don't think that means what you think it means" You obviously take some issue with the wealth the Clinton's have accumulated. It is therefore NOT a strawman to point that out.

"Even if they were, still, WHO GIVES A SHIT?"

We ALL should

Sorry, but I really do not feel the need to spend any mental energy worrying or giving a shit how people I've never met spend their own money. I just don't. And in my opinion, it is a waste of time and therefore I disagree that "we all should". No. We all should have better things to worry about.

"Get over it already."

I won't be shouted down because I don't think like everyone else. Inequality is nothing to "get over".

No one is shouting you down. Relax, for fucks sake. However, I find it amusing that opinions such as yours are so incredibly hollow and self righteous. I'm willing to bet that within 60 seconds of arriving at your residence, I could find some luxury you could do without, yet you have allowed it to yourself with apparently little thought of how that money could be better spent to improve the lot of the impoverished in this world. Hell, 15 years ago it is very unlikely you owned a personal computer or had ever used the internet, yet here you are, using something that is by no means a necessity. How on earth did you survive before computers came along? You really should be ashamed of yourself.

Instead of creating fake reasons for my outrage, or distracting tangents, you can reply directly to the concerns Ive already posted (here or there, I don't give a damn):

OK, here's my response to your concerns.

WHO GIVES A FUCK?

[Oregone]

17. Who said anything about "parity"?

Mass disparity is an extreme, just as parity is (almost not possible to accomplish). But...were talking CEO pay over 300X what worker pay is. We are talking old money heirs who are born with the right to sit at home and profit off the sweat and labor of others (and they are already set)





As for my system, sure, Ill give it a kick...I think the world would be better off if private enterprise consisted of co-ops only (which would greatly reduce disparity). Private investors must be bought out over a certain period of time (as would retirees), so workers will always be gaining ownership while employed, and receiving profits from the fruit of their labor. Having a system like this that gives equal consideration to capital and labor will greatly reduce disparity, and the effects of it.


"it isn't a Strawman because"

It is. Do I complain about other people's "average" weddings? No. The reason I complain now isnt because its a wedding, or because its the Clintons, or whatever else--but rather, because its a sign of disparity. Only a system that promotes inequality can make this possible. Its not the wedding Im complaining about...its the system.


"Not a distraction by any means. It is entirely the point"

The entire point is that they have so much wealth, made possible by the economical system, that this amount is negligable to them. This isn't a complaint about "how they decide" to celebrate, but about how a system can enable people to be in that position in the first place.


"But how do you know they didn't invite the entire village?"

Because the lumberjacks who cut down the wood that the pulp mill workers turned into paper weren't asked to come. They were instead paid a wage by their boss and told to fuck off. Though, the shareholders of Weyerhauser just might be there.


"You obviously take some issue with the wealth the Clinton's have accumulated"

Its complicated. Im not talking about the actions they pursued to "earn" those amounts, but the system that deems such actions as justified to "earn" the amounts that they have (a system that set a value of other peoples labor, integral to Clintons work, much lower). This argument isn't about the Clintons. Its about the economic system that enables the financial elite to rise (leaving other's they depended upon behind).


"I really do not feel the need to spend any mental energy worrying or giving a shit how people I've never met spend their own money"

Nor do I. I do feel the need to worry about the economic system that determines how wealth generated in production is disproportionally distributed. Its something that affects everyone, giving everyone a justified reason to express outrage.


"No one is shouting you down. Relax, for fucks sake. "

:rofl:

For fuck's sake, keep thinking that. There isn't even an honest attempt here to discuss disparity and the system that perpetuates it. More distractions about "earning" and the "right to spend" and "their own private wedding". Fuck that. Its a barometer for disparity. Thats the bottom line.


"WHO GIVES A FUCK?"

The same people who are getting fucked by their government and the investor class, time and time again, *should*. Keep not giving a fuck and see where that gets you.

[Book Lover]

36. Kiss!

I love you and am gonna be part of our revolution!

[ashling]

12. I demand to know what color your washcloth is!

Inquiring minds want to know.

:rofl:

[A HERETIC I AM]

16. LOL...actually, I don't use one.

I think washcloths are a part of a mass conspiracy on the part of the textile industry for all of us to use more fabric. :sarcasm:

Seriously, I don't use one because I don't need one and I think they're pointless.

[ashling]

26. Oh yeah? Well I don't even wash. so there!

Bathing is part of a mass conspiracy on the part of the... of the ...uh, great washed to make all of the great unwashed feel inferior! yeah, that's it. even more :sarcasm:





:rofl:

[Whisp]

21. they got what they have through smarts and hard work? are you fucking joking?

that means that everyone who ISN'T fucking rich is fucking stupid and lazy?

FUCK THAT SHIT.

[JanMichael]

23. Agreed 100%. nt.

[dems_rightnow]

32. Take a logic class

OMG, the stupid.

[Brigid]

10. You all did better than I did.

I didn't even know she was getting married. But in spite of everything, best wishes Chelsea.

[Bitwit1234]

13. SO Glad...makes the rest of us happy for Chelsa.

[grasswire]

14. at least we aren't paying for a WH wedding

I'm sure the family looked forward to that possibility.

[FooshIt]

18. connect the dots

why are 60 percent of houses around you in foreclosure. maybe its got something to do with the fact that after giving all their money to the rich there isn't any money left to pay the mortgage. and why do the rich "need" all that money? To pay for things that no one really needs like a 2 million dollar wedding.

For the price of one party those six houses around you could be brought out of foreclosure.

You should be mad. Get mad.

[Arkana]

19. Sorry that I can't gin up any outrage because the daughter of two very well-off people

is getting married.

I like not having to change my underpants four times a day because I keep soiling them with impotent rage, thanks.

[Oregone]

22. Do you really think this person is outraged because someone is getting married?

Because if you do, you didn't read their reply very well.

Either you are being intentionally dishonest, or you need to brush up on your reading comprehension

[Raineyb]

24. They only became so well off after leaving the White House.

I don't suppose it occurred to you to ask who was sold out in order for them to make all that money.

*cough*Nafta*cough*
*cough*Graham Leach Bliley*cough*
*cough*Welfare "Reform"*cough*

[awoke_in_2003]

27. Don't forget...

*cough*repeal of Glass-Steagall*cough*

[Arkana]

29. Hmmm...let me check.

Nope. Still no impotent rage over the fact that Chelsea's wedding is going to be expensive.

And I find it particularly amusing that you're drawing parallels between the things Clinton did as President and the fact that his daughter is having an expensive wedding. Really. I do.

Like I said--I like not being one of the outrage addicted. It keeps me from having to buy new underwear every week due to shitting blood.

[FooshIt]

31. its all part of the same system

This 2 million wedding is a symptom of large problems. If you're not concerned about income inequality than you can't call yourself a progressive.

[Arkana]

33. I am concerned about inequality of income

but if you're seriously going to sit there and tell me that the Clintons acquired their wealth as ill-gotten gains then you've got a problem.

And you have absolutely no fucking grounds to declare who can and cannot declare themselves a "progressive".

[Fuzz]

25. I don't give at least 2 fucks.

;)

[cynatnite]

28. n/t

[Ignis]

30. K&R

Meanwhile, my gay Daughter still can't get married, innocent civilians and American service members are dying in countries on the other side of the world for no reason, BushCheneyRove go un-indicted, and six houses within ten doors of mine are in foreclosure. That kind of meat, I can sink my teeth into. The child of hundred-millionaires getting married? Not so much.

Thanks for reminding us about the important stuff.

It's easy to hate the rich, but it's not necessarily pretty or useful. :blush: Let's focus on how we can help those who need our help, instead.

[Jennicut]

34. I grew up around people like this but I cannot get angry about it anymore.

I grew up in a rich town where other kids drove BMWs to school. I would say my own family was solidly upper middle class. My mother's parents moved from New York City to the wealthy suburbs of Connecticut. This stuff, blowing all kinds of money on weddings, anniversaries, cars, clothes, houses....I grew up with all of that, watching my relatives in New York and here in CT. I got out of that town I grew up in (Cheshire) as soon as I could as I really felt like I had nothing in common with those people. They were just so shallow. But to make me get angry about it now, at the age of 34? I put it behind me a long time ago. There are lots of injustices in the world. I chose to try to do my part. I cannot worry what others might do, I have no control over them. I have no control over members of my own family, let alone strangers. The band at my own cousin's wedding in New York cost $10,000 alone! I spent a tortured youth trying to fit in with the rich bitches and assholes of the world but it took more out of me then it did them. So did the anger. I let it go a long, long time ago.

[donheld]

35. Maybe I should have tried harder but I just didn't give a fuck.

If it was up to me all weddings would cost about $50 at max.

[Radical Activist]

37. Me either.

A young women with money wants to have a nice wedding. Fine. BFD.

[complain jane]

38. There was a Clinton wedding?