Hate the Police? Stop calling them.

[cherokeeprogressive]

Seriously... who here thinks the jackbooted thugs show up where there's trouble because of clairvoyance? Stop calling them and take care of your situation by yourself.

If the police suck so badly, if every one of them are on some kind of power trip, why would you want them there in the first place? Stop calling them. Maybe then cities would stop spending so much money on them. It's like any other business... if no one visits your ice cream parlour, you go out of business. If no one comes to your convenience store, you go out of business. If no one buys your gas, you go out of business.

Maybe if we stop calling the police when we're scared, they'd go out of business too.

[boppers]

1. Last time I saw them called, they didn't show up.

People have been taking back their streets because the police can't be bothered to do it.

[Bonobo]

2. Yawn. Another OP equating criticizing bad police behavior with "hating" the police. nt

[Skip Intro]

3. Pretty mcuh standard on DU. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. Criticism of bad behavior is one thing.

You've been here a long time, as have I. Tell me honestly that you've never seen a post or opinion that ALL policemen/women should be looked at with a skeptical eye simply because they wanted to wear the uniform in the first place. Be honest...

[Heidi]

10. I believe any person in a position of public trust should be watched closely.

ALL of them.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. Totally agree. CLOSELY. Maybe if we were more vigilant, elected officials wouldn't be able to scam

the the populace by scamming the govt.

[alarimer]

51. So do I.

In fact I believe every interaction between police and the public should be recorded on video. Many traffic stops already are. I think it helps both sides.

No one in any position of authority, especially those with the power of arrest, should automatically be trusted simply because they are where they are. I think every police department needs a board, made up of citizens, to oversee them. The police, of course, will hate that, but it is necessary because too many of them act like jack-booted thugs and they cover up for each other.

[Heidi]

64. The good cops would love it,

but I suspect the prospect of accountability would sway the rest (ie, the majority) against.

[Bonobo]

11. I cannot say no, but none come to my mind recently.

Having said that, I will be the first to say that some people, in fact, DO want to join the police for bad motives while others want to join for the best of motives.

Be honest, don't you agree?

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. I agree.

I'm a 50 year old (almost), six foot tall, brown skinned person who's had dozens of run-ins with county sheriff's deputies though, NONE of which has ever resulted in any kind of physical confrontation.

[Tsiyu]

37. Well,then all those people who HAVE been brutalized

should just shut the hell up, huh?

I mean, how DARE they? It didn't happen to YOU so it must not happen to anyone. lol

[socialist_n_TN]

75. It's a bait post and you know it. Firstly, cops RARELY "protect"

anyone. If it's an emergency situation, you take care of it yourself and call the cops AFTER you've stabilized it. That's why I'm NOT an antigun "liberal" and not a pacifist. If somebody fucks with me, THEY take a chance with their OWN health and safety when trying to mess with mine. Everybody has got to look out for themselves and for each other.

Now what the cops actually ARE, is part of the social contract with THE REST OF SOCIETY. They enforce the laws, but they enforce them by catching people AFTER the fact of a crime. IOW, they are DETERRENCE and punishment, not protection. Since they are PART of the contract and not the WHOLE of the contract, they NEED to be overseen. When somebody's got a gun and the right to use it without (or mostly without) punishment for misuse, they SHOULD be held under STRICTEST oversight. And yes MANY cops go into law enforcement because of that power trip. Not all, maybe not even most, but some do.

In short, if you're relying on cops to protect you, you're going to be disappointed.

[Hissyspit]

4. When I call them, I assume they are going to do their job correctly.

Because that's what I and those cities pay them for.

Some people don't call them, even though they help pay for them, because they can't trust them.

[Lucian]

5. OP fail.

Hating bad police behavior does NOT equate to hating the police.

[avaistheone1]

6. Happy to unrecommend.

:thumbsdown:


Bad police should be fired.

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. What a profound statement.

Of COURSE they should be fired. They should be fired WHEN THEY FIRST SHOW THEMSELVES TO BE AUTHORITARIANS rather than those hired to uphold the law.

That wasn't my point.

[avaistheone1]

58. Seriously given the lack

of profundity in your own statement, I suggest you think twice before pointing fingers.

Thank you.

[slampoet]

65. Amen.

[skeptical cynic]

9. They problem isn't when you call them

The problem is when you don't; they show up anyway; they shoot your dog; they yank you out of bed and humiliate you in front of your family and neighbors; they give those little grammatically flawed morality lectures we all enjoy so much when we're watching "Cops" on television; and--oops, wrong house.

[USArmyParatrooper]

12. "they they they"

Who is "they"? You seem to imply that's the rule and not the exception.

I'm not exactly a youngin. In all my years I have NEVER had a cop shoot my dog, yank me out of bed or do anything remotely similar. I've also lived in many different cities, towns and states.

[Lucian]

16. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening.

:eyes:

[USArmyParatrooper]

21. The problem is..

Saying "they" do this and "they" do that is generalizing the entire group. I can't even say anyone I know has ever said anything about experiencing those things.

[skeptical cynic]

70. When the exceptions are explained away as...

"consistent with policy" they set the limits of the rule.

I've never been targeted by a Hellfire missile fired from a remotely operated drone, but I still believe it's wrong for noncombatants to be killed in that fashion.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. "they show up anyway"

I'm less than a year away from 50, and grew up in a very bad place. I'm from Southeast Los Angeles County. I can't remember a single instance of deputies showing up in Norwalk, Bellflower, Lakewood, Compton, South Gate, or any other of the cities in my area unless someone called them first.

You live in Alaska. I have a minute, tell me everything you know about So. Cal. Cops and Sheriff's Deputies...

[U4ikLefty]

69. Then you hid inside the house as a frightened little kid.

I am the same age & grew up in the same area, but I went outside.

I have plenty of stories where the cops would ride up & harass us on a regular basis.

BTW, I still live in the area...do you???

[skeptical cynic]

71. I was born and raised in the Central Valley of California

I lived in Escondido for five years

I can probably tell you more about California law enforcement than you can tell me about the ecology of the Arctic. Do you have an opinion on oil exploration in ANWR or the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas?

[Bonobo]

15. I would toss out your opinion along with whackjobs on the "other side". nt

[LooseWilly]

18. Done and done.

I have stopped calling them, and will never call them again... unless I think I can use the calling of them as a gambit to solve my problem myself. (I refer all to my recounting of one of the two to five times in my life that the existence of the police was of service to me personally:http://www.smartasspress.com/home/metro_index/un_neighborhood_watch)

To make it clear... I would never call the police expecting the police to answer the call, let alone help... I would only call the police as a form of performance art, meant to leverage the paranoia of police harassment in the minds of those fucking with me in some way into thinking twice. Police = useless to me. Police = even more useless still to some that the police will treat with more stereotypical antipathy than they will treat me with.

People will either know what I'm talking about, or they won't... but there's no more explaining possible on this subject. Some people fit the citizen demographic in the mind of the police... and for those people, the police are just swell... the rest of us know a different side of things.

[asdjrocky]

44. Perfectly put.

[costahawk1987]

19. Some may have 911 on speed dial

but I've never called them myself. I suppose it could happen if a woman, child or puppy were in danger, but I'd probably just turn vigilante. And I despise vigilantes! My county sherrif taught me to shoot pool, and I've been popped by some damn decent deputies. But some were serious pricks who abused their power for no reason whatsoever. As with any people grouped together, one must judge each individually. The obvious difference is that a bad cop, as opposed to a bad shoe salesman, can kill you and get by with it.

[costahawk1987]

20. Some may have 911 on speed dial

but I've never called them myself. I suppose it could happen if a woman, child or puppy were in danger, but I'd probably just turn vigilante. And I despise vigilantes! My county sherrif taught me to shoot pool, and I've been popped by some damn decent deputies. But some were serious pricks who abused their power for no reason whatsoever. As with any people grouped together, one must judge each individually. The obvious difference is that a bad cop, as opposed to a bad shoe salesman, can kill you and get by with it.

[JVS]

22. LOL, I can't believe how wrong you have it.

"It's like any other business... if no one visits your ice cream parlour, you go out of business. If no one comes to your convenience store, you go out of business."

No, that's not how the police business model works at all. Try again.

[ZombieHorde]

23. "take care of your situation by yourself"

Do you really want people to become vigilantes? Is this really your hope?

[bobbolink]

57. Apparently that is the goal.

Its the message coming out of Idaho, I guess. :(

Wanna form the DU Militia? :shrug:

[ZombieHorde]

67. "Wanna form the DU Militia?"

I'll leave that up to mods.

[socialist_n_TN]

77. Unfortunately bobbo, I'm not so sure the DU malitia

is that bad of an idea. It would be nice to have some (somewhat) LIKE minded people armed around me rather than Teabagger scum whether uniformed or not.

[TexasObserver]

24. The problem doesn't usually involve anyone calling them.

They stop people all the time, usually on nothing more than the preconceived notions which fill their heads.

[elocs]

25. The broadbrush is applied liberally here at DU when it comes to cops.

The bad apples are inferred to represent cops as a whole. Unfortunately, law enforcement, like any position of authority and power, attracts exactly the wrong kind of person that should ever be allowed to be a cop.

You know cherokeeprogressive, your opinion is personal a precious to you and it takes a certain amount of courage to express one, even here at DU where you might think that people might at least listen, when you probably know beforehand the people are going to be condescending and dismissive to what you say because it does not line up with what they believe. Even if I were not to largely agree with you I could at least respect what you say and try to understand it, maybe even reconsidering my own point of view. That is what DU should be about. We should not be like the freepers and the right wingers and use bullying and put-downs to attempt to belittle or to force into line those DUers whose opinions do not agree with ours.

So even if it does not matter I will give your OP a Rec not only because I largely agree with what you have to say, but that you took the time to express an opinion that you probably knew was not going to be popular here.

[midnight]

26. Our police run the EMT dept. If an ambulance is called they

escort with two cop cars.

[donco6]

27. Yeah, because it's too much to demand they actually do their job well.

We either take what we get, or we skip it entirely. Super.

[mwooldri]

28. Problem is that law enforcement won't go out of business.

Even if everyone stops calling them.

Remember, law enforcement can always call on you. For speeding. For littering. For jaywalking. For having your stereo in your car on too loud. For walking along the sidewalk at 2am in the morning, having had a few too many alcoholic beverages.

If we stop calling for the murders, the rapes, the burglaries... the local government can then claim that crime has gone down, and "we're the safest city/county/etc in America!" and those same law enforcement officers are then pretty much reduced to "traffic duty".

[MikeNY]

29. Why I wouldn't stop calling the police if I hated them

Because I pay for them.

[Dr.Phool]

30. I don't.

However, I wish they would quit calling me for donations for their benevolent society up to 4 times per day, after I tell them repeatedly to stop.

[Raineyb]

31. I don't call them.

And as police protection is a public service rather than something provided by the private sector your ice ream analogy is a massive fail.

Oh and the broad-brush of people who criticize the police? Pot meet kettle.

K&U

:thumbsdown:

[LeoStotch]

32. "Good" Cops

Protect the bad cops, just like good priests protect bad priests. Puts them all in one group. Soon as I see good cops demonstrating against the rotten eggs, I will narrow my brush.

[Iggo]

38. Das ist ein Bingo!

[Bluenorthwest]

33. Many Americans use private security

And those folks deal with the cops, if necessary. So many who can afford to do so do in fact have another level of security they use instead. It is costly, and the reason for it is largely corruption on the part of the actual police.
So that which you see as outrageous snark is the reality for millions. Funny how that works.

[USArmyParatrooper]

35. "and the reason for it is largely corruption on the part of the actual police. "

Baloney! The reason for that is they're wealthy people who are at high risk of stalkers, crazies, kidnappers, etc. Especially celebrities and high profile tycoons who do business abroad.

[Hannah Bell]

40. "many americans" = rich people

[seabeyond]

34. some of us can actually see that this attitude in the force hurts the cops more than any of us.

so we feel a responsibility to communicate with our departments why they are losing support from people that they have always had. and how it does not behoove the department and the very cops you are talking about. how, unless the higher ups take better care of their cops and set strong boundaries and lines for the cops the atmosphere will worsen. and it is the cops that will pay.

how, with realization, there are much better ways to go

i personally feel that is more responsible to our police officers than starting a thread demanding something stupid like, dont like cops, dont call them. i think that isolates the cops and creates more hate and anger to the cops. creating an environment that is even more hostile. i mean, that just does not sound very smart to me.

[LWolf]

36. I don't "hate the Police."

But assuming that those who have reason to fear or distrust law enforcement are "calling" them for help is not a valid argument to make your point.

[Tsiyu]

39. ...

Police Brutality in America

snip

Despite Congress passing the 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, Congress has consistently failed to fund it. Further, the legislation doesn't require local police agencies to keep records, nor does it criminalize police violence and excessive force as human rights violations.

snip

AI cited numerous incidents, including beatings and "questionable" shootings, usually found to be unjustified, yet cops most often absolved. Although most US police departments stipulate that officers should only use deadly force when their lives, or others, are endangered, dozens of cases show they do it indiscriminately, at most being "mildly disciplined" even if guilty of serious misconduct.

"Police shooting(s) resulting in death or injury are routinely reviewed (internally or) by local prosecutors....to see whether criminal laws (were) violated. However, few officers are criminally charged and little public information is given out if a case does not go to trial." As a result, systemic abuse stays hidden, police brutality allowed to persist with impunity.

Despite Congress passing the 1994 Police Accountability Act, incorporated into the 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act to require the Attorney General to compile national data on excessive police force, Congress has consistently failed to fund it. Further, the legislation doesn't require local police agencies to keep records or submit data to the Justice Department. Nor does it criminalize police violence and excessive force as human rights violations.



snip

more: http://baltimorechronicle.com/2010/071310Lendman.shtml

[asdjrocky]

41. What if they only come to your neighborhood in the daytime?

What if they don't come at all? What if almost every time you see them they are beating, killing or otherwise hustling a friend or neighbor.

I'm telling you man, you really need to spend some time on the other side of the tracks.

The last person anyone calls in my neighborhood is a pig.

[Tsiyu]

42. and more

From the same above :

Statistics compiled follow the same DOJ/FBI Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) methodology, recording only the most serious allegation (not conviction) when multiple ones are associated with a particular incident. The findings were as follows:

3,445 police misconduct reports;
4,012 officers charged;
261 law enforcement officials (police chiefs or sheriffs) cited;
4,778 alleged victims;
258 fatalities reported;
an average of 15.05 daily incidents or one every 96 minutes;
nearly $200 million in related civil litigation expense, excluding legal fees and court costs;
980.64 per 100,000 officers charged;
one of every 266 officers accused of a violent crime;
one of every 1,875 charged with homocide;
one of every 947 accused of sexual assault;
33% of police officers charged were convicted, not necessarily justly for the offense committed;
64% of officers convicted were imprisoned, not necessarily as long as justified;
those sentenced served an average 14 months, far less than citizens for the same crime;
misconduct by category included 18.1% for non-firearm related excessive force; 11.9% for sexual misconduct; and 8.9% for fraud or theft;
analyzing reports by last reported status showed 45.9% affected officers adversely, including 14% internally disciplined and 31.9% criminally charged; of the latter, 32.5% were convicted "for a 10.4% total criminal conviction rate for alleged misconduct incidents; and
27% resulted in civil lawsuits, 34.3% favoring victims.

[rucky]

43. Maybe the problem is that too few people call...

when there's actual trouble, so they have to justify their jobs by finding trouble where it isn't?

[Tsiyu]

45. This is a great blog

http://police-brutality-blog.blogspot.com/

Scroll down for this:

The New York Times says in a very informative article about the overwhelming difference between stop and frisk rates of whites and others in New York City:

Blacks and Latinos were nine times as likely as whites to be stopped by the police in New York City in 2009, but no more likely to be arrested.
( . . .)
According to the analysis of the 2009 raw data by the Center for Constitutional Rights, nearly 490,000 blacks and Latinos were stopped by the police on the streets last year, compared with 53,000 whites.

But once stopped, the arrest rates were virtually the same. Whites were arrested in slightly more than 6 percent of the stops, blacks in slightly fewer than 6 percent. About 1.7 percent of whites who were stopped were found to have a weapon, while 1.1 percent of blacks were found with one. NYT

What I find most troubling is this: If police are able to find just as much reason to arrest whites even when whites are stopped and frisked only 1/10th as much as Blacks and Latinos, then if police INCREASED the stop and frisk rate of whites then they would probably also increase the rate of arrests made of whites.

Look at it this way, in the land of driverless white and black drone cars: If ALL cars have weapons in them but the white cars are stopped half as often, then police will find the same rate of weapons among both groups of cars, but white cars will proceed with weapons unmolested, even though increasing stops of white cars would increase the number of weapons found in white cars. Or, let's look at it another way: In spite of an all out effort to find crime among Blacks, targeting Blacks almost ten times as much as whites, police have been unable to show that Blacks are more likely to have weapons than whites. Perhaps if the police stopped every single Black person who left his house, the police still wouldn't find more reasons to arrest Blacks than whites. And that's what these statistics are showing

snip

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

46. this has to be the most ridiculous OP I have ever read on DU

and that is saying quite a lot. Seriously, did you bother to consider this at all before you wrote it?

What a piece of clownage. A sixth grader could see through this nonsense.

Grow up.

[asdjrocky]

48. Don't be so hard on sixth graders.

I know several 12 year olds that can write better than this, and also debate better.

[Prometheus Bound]

74. Yes. Extremely childish reasoning. Embarrassing.

[Tsiyu]

47. Let's not forget Aiyana Jones

snip
Seven-year-old Aiyana Jones was shot and killed by police on May 16th during a no-knock raid on her family's Detroit home. Police threw a flash grenade into the first-floor window, where Jones laid asleep. After police barged into the home, an alleged confrontation took place between Officer Joseph Weekley and Jones' grandmother, during which it is claimed that Weekley’s gun “accidentally” went off, killing the girl.

The incident was filmed by the crew of the reality TV cop show The First 48, which had been following the Detroit Police Department for some time as part of the series. A lawyer for the Jones family claims that the footage contradicts the police account of the incident. More details are expected to come to light in the coming days and weeks


find this and more on police brutality here:

http://www.indybay.org/police/

[Tsiyu]

49. A defense attorney weighs in

POLICE BRITALITY: A GROWING PANDEMIC

snip

Roberts is no wimpy-nimbi liberal. He was Secretary of Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of the National Review. He is the author or co-author of eight books, including “The Supply-Side Revolution” (Harvard University Press).

Thus, Roberts has impeccable conservative credentials. But he now sees the police as “Public Enemy No. 1,” not the criminals. Why? Roberts offers some insights:

“Police forces have always attracted bullies with authoritative personalities who desire to beat senseless anyone who does not quake in their presence. In the past police could get away with brutalizing blacks but not whites. Today white citizens are as likely as racial minorities to be victims of police brutality.


“The police are supreme. The militarization of the police, armed now with military weapons and trained to view the general public as the enemy, against whom ‘pain compliance’ must be used, has placed every American at risk of personal injury and false arrest from our ‘public protectors.’ (empahasis mine)

“In ‘free and democratic America,’ citizens are in such great danger from police that there are websites devoted to police brutality with online forms to report the brutality"


more: http://www.johntfloyd.com/blog/2010/05/06/police-brutality-a-growing-pandemic/

[TexasObserver]

54. Recommend this post.

[Tsiyu]

Thanks

There are so many, I could post them all day, but I'm going to work around the farm now

Have a great day, TexasObserver :hi:

[RetroLounge]

50. Wait. What? Really?

:rofl:

RL

[Tsiyu]

52. We don't call the police out here

We take care of ourselves.

But our cops are mostly cool, regular people. We did call them recently when we witnessed a car hit a horse late at night on HWy 41

County and smalltown cops showed up and were very professional and courteous.

I would NEVER call the Sewanee (University of the South) cops. They won't do any serious (domestic violence, etc) calls off campus, I am told. But they'll chase down local kids off campus to make a felon each night. It's Sewanee's new program, I believe: "Turn a poverty-ridden kid into a felon for a better America" or something like that. Wealthy Sewanee students are exempt from the program. If they are caught with drugs, it is handled by the school, not the courts.

"The cops let us get away with murder" one student bragged to me.

If you're poor, with some police departments, tough shit.

Luckily most of our other local cops are great and don't harrass the poor kids.

[TexasObserver]

53. Don't like threads critical of police? Stop reading them.

The problem is yours. Stop reading things if you can't handle the truth.

[Forkboy]

55. ...

[Pathwalker]

56. I did stop calling them. I solved the problem myself.

For years, every summer, this same couple kept showing up at my door trying to "sell" me a great cleaning product. I wouldn't let them in my house, but they tried to pressure me, so I called the local police. They told me they knew who they were, that they were part of "Gypsy Travelers" who showed up every summer. They advised me let them in and let them steal something, and then call the police, since "there's no service citation for stopping crimes before they happen".

Before they came the following summer, I called a Rom relative, who told me what to say in the Rom language. When they showed up that year, I was out in my flower gardening digging up and dividing perennials with my hoori-hoori knife, so I stood up with it in one hand and a large rock in the other. I repeated the words my relative taught me, which basically said: "I am not white, I am Rom. If you do not leave me alone, I will send my Rom relatives after you". The look on their faces made it plain that they understood what I said, as did the squealing tires of their van as they raced out of my driveway. They never returned.

That being said, I have had several interactions with the local police, most of them were with very good officers. But there was this one bad one, a racist POS, who I am proud to say I helped get FIRED.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. Um, CP...

it's the job of the police to show up to emergencies when they're called, not to murder black people.

I don't know why you or they can't figure that out.

[blondeatlast]

60. Really? REALLY?

:eyes:

[yurbud]

61. so we can't use their service, applaud the good they do, but point out needed changes too?

[Greyhound]

62. No, they won't go out of business because helping people is no longer their purpose,

if it ever was. They are there to keep the populace afraid.

And I gave up calling them after the first time I was mugged and told to fuck off and stop bothering them.
:kick: & U

[slampoet]

63. I did a long time ago. I am over 40 white, male, relatively well off and NOT ONCE have the police...

...helped in any situation.

I have had almost $10,000 of things stolen over the years and not one fingerprint has been taken. Most departments didn't even circulate serial numbers.

I have had them screw up accident reports, and take down testimony w/o getting witness names. I have had police show up in court and lie in court over a ticket that was getting dismissed for gross negligence and had them delay me for HOURS even thought the cop knew i was teaching children in an after school program.

I have had to fight off rapists myself and get sued by them because the police didn't think it was important to show up.

I am the son of a police officer and i have not once had the police bring a positive resolution. Not once, Not EVER.

[naaman fletcher]

66. Pretty dumb argument...

In fact, very dumb. There is nothing wrong with wanting people in a necessary job to do better.

[Orsino]

68. Yep. Apples and oranges, in fact.

Having called for emergency services must somehow disqualify one from criticizing abusive or extralegal excesses? Bullshit.

[gulliver]

72. Juvenile and stupid as it is to hate the police, I don't think there...

...are really that many such imbeciles on the site. I can understand bad guys hating/fearing police of course. I can understand hating bad police. I can understand hating bad laws (such as criminalized marijuana) and resenting police who have to enforce those laws. I can't understand FTP and all that though...just baby-ass bull.

[RB TexLa]

73. You really think they show up because you call them? Very funny post.

[rcrush]

76. I once called the cops because some guy was beating up his girlfriend in a parking lot

I called 911 while two other guys chased the guy out of the parking lot of a bar while he threw his girlfriend in the car. The bartender had his last name from the credit card info he used when he was drinking.

Took 45 min for the police to show up and when they did they said there was 'about 20 guys with that last name in his database' so he couldn't really do anything. Then he left.