Shirley Sherrod - Once again, I feel a lot of people on our side are missing the main issue.

[rhett o rick]

Of course Mr. Breitbart did a terrible thing. It isn’t his first nor will it be his last. Even if you put him in jail he will be replaced by another idiot.

Of course Fox News amplified this fake story. That’s what they do. And they will do it again and again.

Of course the MSM goes along like lambs to slaughter.

These players will play this tune again and again. The real issue here is how do we react? Do we fight back? Or do we capitulate?

Mr. Vilsack, speaking for the President, cut and run. He cowers in the face of Glen Beck. He couldn’t wait to push Ms. Sharrod under the bus. This is not my Democratic Party. If the President doesn’t fire this cowering idiot, then the President loses face in my book.

IMO a similar situation happened with the Cheney/BP oil spill. Where were we? Where were our regulators? Mr. Salazar and his pro-oil stand doesn’t represent me. Is he a Democrat? We all scoff when Palin says “drill baby drill”. Why don’t we object when Salazar, speaking for our President says “drill baby drill”.

How can we hope to succeed when our own party capitulates to the Republicans on health care, on financial reform, and on firing Shirley Sherrod.

I am so disgusted with my party leaders failure to fight back.

[Dhalgren]

1. If you are disgusted, why are they your Party?

I'm not being "snarky". I mean it. This is nothing new. Democrats have always been this way. Recognition is the first step...

[Fumesucker]

4. "I welcome their hatred." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S "give 'em hell" Truman

No, Democrats have not always been this way, LBJ was feared by a great many in Washington.

[Dhalgren]

6. Keep telling yourself that.

Then look around at reality. Sound bites are sound bites for a reason - look beyond them...

[Fumesucker]

8. You think LBJ got the Civil Rights bill through Congress by being a milquetoast?

:rofl: :rofl:

[Dhalgren]

11. LBJ did what he did. He also killed a couple million civilians.

Laugh about that...

[Fumesucker]

13. I was laughing at your characterization of LBJ as a pushover..

And Obama's on track to kill more than a few civilians himself.

But that doesn't mean he doesn't lick the Republicans jackboots for them.

[sabrina 1]

44. We're still killing civilians. That seems to be a cultural thing.

When Republicans do it, we think it's bad. When Democrats do it, you can practically hear the silence.

LBJ paid a price for killing civilians, he had to give up being president.

We've 'progressed'. There was hardly a voice raised when this president decided he could assassinate U.S. citizens.

We all support war in the end, it just depends on whether the CIC is an 'R' or a 'D'. There are no principles involved. It was all about politics after all, all the protests and marches and denouncing of the Bush administration. It meant nothing.

But back then, there must have been some principles floating around because LBJ had to quit being president.

If LBJ was here today, still killing civilians, the left would hardly mention it and anyone who did would be asked if they wanted Palin in the WH. Does it matter? If killing civilians is what we're worried about?

Leaving out his war record, since everyone does it anyhow, LBJ was a tough guy. He got things done, like the Civil Rights Act at a time when doing so was practically impossible. Today, we cannot get DADT taken care of despite the fact that a majority of people are for it.

So, here we are today. War? Who cares? Civil rights? *Yawn*! But, hey, we WON!! :bounce:

[Pirate Smile]

14. The fact that he was doing it in the name of an assassinated President helped a bit too.

[WonderGrunion]

54. He got it through with 69 Dem senators and 5 years of hard work

Why can't you give Obama just 4?

[JHB]

5. Please define "always"

"Always" covers a long time.

[Dhalgren]

9. Always means always.

Democrats have always been about the business of empire. That means they have been in opposition to the interests of working people of the whole world. Are Democrats better than Republicans? Yes, marginally. But we can do better...

[rhett o rick]

7. Decent question. I am a Democrat and believe in the Democratic principles.

I am disgusted with those that are supposed to be representing me. I am not leaving the party, I am going to kick their chicken shit, sorry asses out.

[Dhalgren]

12. Good luck. But you should recognize that that has never

worked in the past...

[rhett o rick]

19. Yes I recognize that, but I must fight, it's all i have. nm

[carsonscorner]

43. ^ Exactly.

I'm a up-and-coming progressive host. Please listen to my show and give me feedback.

Carson's Corner, New Jersey's only fm progressive radio show, and the number # 1 liberal podcast on podomatic, returns. Segment 1: Bob starts out with the story that the mainstream media won't cover: Angry right-winger, Byron Williams, of Groveland California, shot at California Highway Patrol Officers. According to his mother Janice Williams, Byron Williams was upset at the way "Congress was railroading through all these left-wing agenda items." Bob argues Fox News and right-wing talk radio are complicit in the attack. Find out what Jim David Adkission, Richard Poplawski, Jerry Kane, James Von Braun, Georgory Lee Guisti and Russel Hesch have in common. Segment 2: Another story the mainstream media won't cover: The Kansas City Star reported that white nationalists groups are encouraging members to attend tea parties. Billy Roper is a write-in candidate for governor of Arkansas, a white supermacist, and a tea party member. Roper recruits for his white nationalist group at tea parties. Furthermore, The Star also reported that the Council of Conservative Citizens, which promotes the perservation of the white race, sponsores its own tea parties. Bob notes the obvious: The tea party movement and the white nationalist movement are one in the same. Segment 3: It's your Workers Independent News Segment. Does Tacobell have a discrimination policy? Listen to this week's WIN update to find out. Segment 4: Bob welcomes NJEA President, Barbara Keshishian to the show. Find out Barbara's take on Governor Christie's attempted cap on school administrators' pay. Find out the latest on Governor Christie's property tax cap scheme. Segment 5: Bob's colleague and correspondent, Eddie Goldman,(http://eddiegoldman.com) spoke with Maria Rohaly of Mission Free Iran (http://missionfreeiran.org) about the horrifying case of Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani. In a story that has drawn widespread international attention to the barbarous misogyny of the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the 43-year-old Sakineh has been sentenced to execution by stoning for allegedly having an "illicit relationship," i.e., consensual sex outside of marriage.

Click here to listen: http://bobcarson13.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-07-19T18_59_53-07_00

[90-percent]

2. Alan Grayson

All of us helping him win in 2010 with 98% of the vote would send a pretty clear message to Democrats.

-90% Jimmy

[Ignis]

22. +1 for something positive to act upon.

:thumbsup:

[customerserviceguy]

3. Dubya had a lot of faults

but he did display enough loyalty to his appointees to have been able to ride out the story that sunk Sherrod.

Maybe this is one of the very few things that President Obama needs to have learned from his predecessor.

[ProSense]

10. Good grief

Bush kicked people to the curb for disagreeing with him.

What was the entire U.S. Attorney scandal about? They were his appointees.

Bush was all about cronyism, that's a different thing altogether.

[Fumesucker]

16. But Bushie didn't kick people to the curb because they disagreed with the Democrats..

A key point that you seem to be missing.

[ProSense]

20. What? n/t

[sabrina 1]

45. That's NOT what the commenter said. S/he said

that Bush did not kick people to the curb who were loyal to him. This president has done it now at least four times and handed victories to the right which they still cheer about.

Bush otoh, would NOT fire a single one of the Valerie Plame traitors or of the torturers, no matter how loudly the 'Left' screamed or called for his impeachment. He stood by all of them. And we were thoroughly frustrated.

This president otoh, ditched ACORN, his own pastor of 20 years, Van Jones and Shirley Sherrod all because a few wackos on the right told him to. And WE are still thoroughly frustrated, and the right is stronger than ever.

[Pirate Smile]

15. He showed loyalty to Vilsack but you don't like that loyalty.

[EFerrari]

17. Vilsack wasn't the one being eviserated in public, though. n/t

[Fumesucker]

23. But Vilsack did something the Republicans liked..

He was not the focus of the Republican complaints, that was the person that got instantaneously fired.

Vilsack has caught the ire of the Democratic base, hence Obama can stand up for him.

[Pirate Smile]

24. After the initial mistake, who in the administration was eviscerating Shirley? They

weren't. They were apologizing over and over again and trying to hire her back.

Sometimes you guys act like he is Glen Beck and Breitbart himself. You treat him like the enemy.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pirate Smile]

26. LOL. You guys are aligning yourselves with Obama's enemies on the Right in doing everything you can

to undercut Obama. You are their willing accomplices.

[Fumesucker]

27. Criticizing Obama from the left is "aligning with the right"?

Amazing what you learn on DU these days..

[Pirate Smile]

28. He's the enemy or close to it, right?

[Fumesucker]

29. Because he's too far to the right and/or agrees with them..

To the best of my knowledge there are very few Republicans that think the Obama administration is too far to the left.

When someone calls you "fucking retarded" they usually are not on your side.

It would be sensible and pragmatic to enjoy being kicked in the crotch just because the kicker has a D in front of their name but I'm unable to bring myself to that level of masochism.

Edited for speling.

[Pirate Smile]

30. "there are very few Republicans that think the Obama administration is too far to the left."

Are you fucking kidding? That is insane. If you believe that then no wonder you believe Obama could do all these amazing progressive things if he just tried harder.

Get over the "fucking retarded" crap. I mean really, people, grow up. Somebody who is a known total hot-head goes off and says he thinks attacking people whose votes they are going to need is "fucking retarded" and it is an ax to grind until the end of time. My God, let it go.

edit to add - if somebody on your side disagrees with your tactic (actually just a few specific groups who were going to run ads) and calls that tactic "fucking retarded", that does not mean he is calling everyone of a broad-ranging political perspective - or even the people in those organizations - a personal, individual "fucking retard".

The personal grievance, victim-hood people have swallowed is just amazing.

[Fumesucker]

42. So you are aware of Republicans that think the Obama administration is too far to the left?

Please provide examples, I don't believe that is true at all.

"Get over it" is a really good way to win friends and influence people, right?

It felt so good when Republican said that after the 2000 election, didn't it?

It is much more hurtful when someone you think is supposed to be on your side does you dirty than when it is done by someone you consider an enemy. A lot of what you are seeing people do here is protecting themselves from more hurt. It is much easier emotionally to give up hope than it is to continually hope and then have those hopes dashed.

Obama showed right from his inauguration that he didn't really care what those of us on the left thought, he was and is far more interested in winning over people who wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire, those who think he's a socialist, Nazi islamofascist commie pinko. This latest incident with Ms Sherrod just reiterates the point, she was forced out without any review at all, purely on the word of known professional liars. You would think that after the ACORN debacle the Obama administration would have learned not to take the word of Fox for anything. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[eomer]

49. How can there be people "who think he's a socialist.." and at the same time

no Republicans who think he's too far to the left?

Actually, maybe it is possible; maybe what you're getting at is based on the doublethink that is characteristic of many Republicans.

Some of the Republicans in my family think Obama is a communist and they definitely think that communist is too far to the left. Meanwhile, they're the same ones who took one of those online tests before the election and turned out to actually line up closest with Democratic candidates on the issues.

So they think he's too far to the left while they themselves are actually farther left than he is, on issues. Doublethink.

[Fumesucker]

51. I was tired and screwed up my title.. I meant too far to the right.. Mea maxima culpa..

I started writing one way, changed my mind and didn't change the whole sentence..

As I pointed out though, when someone who is supposed to be on your side betrays you it is far harder to take than when someone you perceive as an enemy or opponent does the same.

[eomer]

52. Agreed, it is hard to take.

Especially when it comes after so many years of suffering the effects of your opponents in power and then finally allowing yourself some hope.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[glitch]

56. But triangulating to the extreme right isn't. It works if you believe it works.

You obviously aren't a true believer. ;)

[rhett o rick]

38. So you apparently support what Vilsack did. A good Democrat questions his/her leadership.

Apparently you dont. Democrats like you make it too easy for the repukes to win.

[Pirate Smile]

41. Vilsack screwed up and apologized and tried to fix it. Sorry if I don't want to burn him at the

stake.

I don't think a good Democrat has to always assume the worst about the leadership of the party. I save that for the Republicans. People make mistakes sometimes.

Democrats like you undercut their own party all the time and then wonder why we end up with Republicans like Bush and Cheney.

[rhett o rick]

60. I disagree. This is a symptom of a weak party that capitulates to the repukes at ever turn.

I want strong leaders, and Vilsack failed that test. He caved to Beck and kicked Ms. Sherrod under the bus. This was more than a mistake, this was cowardice in the face of the enemy.

You claim that I undercut our party. That is a terrible thing to say. I want a strong party, not a weak one that will lose to the republicans.

Unlike republicans, good Democrats hold their leaders accountable.

[EFerrari]

48. Actually, people who enable this lame,losing media strategy

are the co-conspirators with Republicans, they keep Democrats always on the defensive, and they are undercutting not only Obama but Democrats.

[sabrina 1]

46. The only reason she got those apologies was because of the

huge uproar and the demands from thousands of people. And it did NOT happen 'right away'.

Here is how it happened.

After the news media checked her story and it was known that she had been slimed, Vilsack stated when asked if she would be reinstated, that he did not believe she could do a good job because of all the controversy. This fool, who himself was the CAUSE of the controversy, was willing to let that injustice stand, for what he wrongly believed would be better for this administraton.

When the outrage grew, and it was seen that Shirley Sherrod was fast becoming a very, very sympathetic figure, Vilsack announced that they were considering all the facts and would make a decision soon. Nothing happened overnight.

Meantime, the NAACP had come out with their statement, and asked Vilsack to reconsider his position and reinstate her.

As the storm grew someone finally realized that they better reinstate her especially after she had told the news media she had no heard from the WH.

Only then, did we see the apologies. If there had not been an outcry against the injustice, she would still be without a job. And we cannot forget that. Vilsack needs to go.

I shudder to think that people like Vilsack are in charge of making critical decisions in this administration. What if there is a decision to be made about War, or Health Care eg? This decision was made to appease a bunch of buffoons on the right. And people are wondering, 'is that why there is no PO' eg?

Obama has a very bad team of advisers, from whoever told him that Offshore Drilling was safe, to the War in Afghanistan, Wall St. bailouts, Health Care and this. Politics seems to be their main concern and they appear to be more influenced by the scum on the far right, than by the people who elected them.

From the start, people were concerned about his choices for powerful postions in his cabinet and on commissions, Vilsack and Salazar eg, Geithner and Emanuel, Bernanke and Judd Gregg. Alan Simpson and Pete Peterson, and Erskine Bowles.

Something needs to be done about getting rid of these people. We did NOT elect a bunch of Republicans, but that's what we're getting in positions of power, exactly what we voted against.

[CrispyQ]

59. "We did NOT elect a bunch of Republicans,

but that's what we're getting in positions of power, exactly what we voted against."

But we all need to go to the polls in November & vote democratic so that repubs don't get back in power. ~sigh

[EFerrari]

47. Well, no. The torture president never allowed anyone to dis his hacks

and thugs. He would never have handled Shirley Sherrod that way even if, maybe especially if she was guilty.

And there is a difference between criticism and enmity.

[customerserviceguy]

33. Yeah, Ballsack seems to be the beneficiary of that loyalty

Too bad it couldn't have extended down the line to Sherrod.

[Pirate Smile]

36. He didn't know Shirley. He trusted Vilsack to do his job right and then tried to hire back Shirley

and apologize to her while not abandoning Vilsack. What a horrible, disloyal man. :eyes:

[Raineyb]

53. Then that's just bad judgment on his part.

Why should anyone who carries water for Monsanto be trusted with anything to do with agriculture in the first place? Vilsack should never have been put in there in the first place and frankly he needs to go.

[Whisp]

18. o fercripessakes.

.

[rhett o rick]

21. So do you have a comment? I do appreciate the kick. nm

[customerserviceguy]

34. My point is

even an asshat like Bush would have waited a few days before firing someone, knee-jerk style. That blind, stupid loyalty would have allowed some time for the FULL transcript of Shirley Sherrod's comments to have come out to prevent the President from looking like he's sucking up to the reich wing.

[tulsakatz]

31. exactly!!!!

you would think after the 8 yr fiasco that was the Bush admin, democrats should be fighting back with everything they've got!!

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have democratic majorities and they are trying to accomplish some big things but they should also be in the media every minute reminding people what they've done for them. And also reminding us what republicans would do if they get the chance!

[bvar22]

32. I have a kick, and a comment.

Tom "Mr Monsanto: Vilsack should have NEVER been put in the position of guarding our Agricultural Hen House. That error in judgment falls clearly on President Obama's shoulders.

And even worse is that grinning corporate lackey Salazar (James Watt with a D) in charge of the Interior.
THAT was a signal to the Mining & Drilling Industries that everything was "Big Business as Usual".

[G_j]

35. there

is the real story

[rhett o rick]

37. I agree. nm

[Triana]

40. The M$M (ALL of it) is part of the problem...

..they're not ALL of the problem - but ALL of the media is part of the problem - not just F*x Noose. That's one thing that needs fixing - the media - ALL of it.

How can we hope to succeed when our society and government capitulates to the media and takes whatever filthy story they bought from whatever filthy maggot they bought it from as truth -- and we act and believe and decide and think accordingly - making snap decisions and knee-jerk opinions without ever checking the FACTS first?

Indeed.

Fix the goddamn media and a lot of this would be fixed. Not all of it, but a huge chunk of it. It's unrealistic and grossly inaccurate to think this is just a F*x Noose problem. It isn't. They're ALL guilty. F*x Noose just happened to get caught. IMO, this is the (or at least a) main issue.

[farmbo]

50. Vilsack's quietly transforming, nutrition, renewable energy, broadband, and vertical integration...

... in agriculture, but this manufactured tempest in a teapot which (reality check!) he apologized for, has defined his career in the eyes of some Progressive Purists.

THEY WANT HIS SCALP!

That's the abiding shame of the whole incident: the work he's doing to transform things that really matter-- local foods, biofuels, rural connectivity to name a few-- go unheralded, because he made an intemperate personnel decision based on a bogus video, for which he later apologized.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. Balderdash

The very people in our Party who are actually interested in such issues as local food do not approve off Vilsack, did not support his appointment, and said so all along.
He's a Big Agra Hack according to those who are really working on those issues. And he's an idiot if he watched that tape and fell for it. An idiot. I never support idiots, ever.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

58. Maybe you're just disappointed Obama/Vilsack did the right thing and everyone else moved on

I can't believe some DU'ers are still riding this idiotic hobbyhorse just to post more crap againt Obama and Democrats.

Vilsack screwed up, corrected course and life moves on.