People went to serve a foreclosure notice at a home in a golf course neighborhood in Reno

[malaise]

First they heard gunshots and now the home is on fire. The home was boarded up - too sad - I hope the owner didn't kill his entire family.

From GEM$NBC and link

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/20/swat-team-at-reno-home-that-caught-fire/

add

[EFerrari]

1. I'm seriously starting to understand the mentality.

Out of work for 2+ years now, teachers being laid off and no one can afford a writer, my mother lost 3/4 of every penny she made in the crash and is struggling to hold onto something at 79, my brother is being screwed 3 ways to Sunday on a menu of items like health insurance for his three girls. He was dodging a car repo man this morning until he could get to the bank -- and that's with working as a union musician who does nothing but work and watch the girls. Over $100k a year and he can't make ends meet.

It's insane. I no longer wonder why people do these things. Or why anarchists smash windows at the G20. Seriously. :shrug:

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. ur bro makes 100K and is dodging the repo man?

:wtf:

[EFerrari]

5. Yep. It's crazy.

He doesn't buy cr@p and he lives very simply. He pays child support and puts gas in his car and that's about it. He doesn't have any expensive hobbies and every spare moment he has, he's with the girls. More than what's happening to me or to my mom, that makes me really angry. I don't know how he keeps going but now I understand why some men don't. :shrug:

[Mimosa]

24. Is he trying to pay off a credit card settlement?

If so, tell him to listen to Dave Ramsay on AM radio.

[EFerrari]

34. That's one thing I haven't heard from him

but it's possible. Divorces are expensive. Who knows. :shrug:

[Mimosa]

67. That would be the one expense to drop

Dave Ramsay tells how. ;)

[sui generis]

8. even people who didn't take risks and who were moderate spenders

and good borrowers can get screwed. All it takes is lengthy unemployment, or a serious illness, or other misfortune to reset everything to zero or less than zero, and don't you dare owe the IRS a penny or they'll make sure to get in the rape-conga line with everyone else and start coopting your income, placing a lien on your property next to the hospital lien for your kid's emergency room visit - your local and federal government looking out for your interests in your time of need.

While I don't personally understand the idea, in my circle of acquaintances I know of three people in the past five years who got so far down they just did themselves in rather than face unending life time debt: an attorney, a doctor and a hair care pro, and none of them big spenders or shallow people.

It is disturbing.

[EFerrari]

12. Since the late 70s, we've been maintaining our quality of living with debt.

Someone said that on Hartmann's show today, and it's true. Well, when all the chips were called in with no warning, there's nowhere for us to go. We can't work more hours than are on the clock, we can't borrow any more because the loans are gone. Even really careful people like my brother are caught in the crosshairs.

[malaise]

41. The sad truth is that so many people bought the meme

to run up debts and go shopping. Thankfully we're both really old fashioned when it comes to debt. We don't have any credit cards and we save with the credit union. The only debt we owe right now are this month's utility bills and they aren't due until the 25th.

[EFerrari]

47. Here in Silicon Valley, it wasn't even a choice.

If you wanted to pay your bills, you had to juggle debt. Maybe it was like that all over California, I don't know. It wasn't so much about "going to the mall" as a hobby but to make your equity do what your income lagged at. Or, that's how it was for us, anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. I hate to point this out

and I know you won't like it... but there is ALWAYS a choice.

I learned from dad but that is just me.

Oh and I DO LIVE in California too... San Diego ain't cheap either.

[ShamelessHussy]

82. not everyone has the same choices

some have much more limited choices.

fyi

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Of course... but I am betting some of my choices

while married to a USN Chief, having to move every so often were limited too. I love my hubby, but those moves were all but cheap... why we saved for them, even if Uncle Sam picked up some of the cost.

It is not how you do things, but what you do with it.

We all get a shit sandwich from time to time. It is what you do when you get one.

And that was my point.

I saw it in Housing all the time. When hubby made rank I put the difference in the bank. Some of my neighbors got a new TV... when the old one worked just dandy.

Keeping up with the Joneses is a choice... by the way. And doing such on credit, is doubly a choice. And we have been marketed since the 1970s as to the importance of doing such... in a dramatic fashion. Truly it started earlier, but the 1970s saw the increase in stuff.

Hell, I'd like a new handbag, that don't mean I am buying one. Now I need to buy food though, and pay the utilities. And that is what choice is about... most Muricans have chosen to keep up with the Joneses, reflected in national saving rates, by the way. And that is CHOICE.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. I learned from dad

And I also live in California. My bills, like yours, are these month's utility bills, due on the 29th, and the 6th of next month, as well as storage, which I need to start emptying. For many reasons we need to get rid of household goods for one house.

Oh and when we finally replace the truck... we have enough to just pay for it. What payments you would have in a car, go into the bank... silly me, I end up paying half for a car... in the long run... (Interest rates suck)

But that also means I make a very bad consumer.

[malaise]

87. We're very bad consumers

My car is now six years and hubby's is five years. We keep all our cars for ten years. We gave our helper our old TV last year and bought a flat screen during a good 24 hour sale.

We buy clothes for work once a year mostly from Macys but we go to good sales at upmarket stores as well. Our only indulgence is blue mountain coffee which we believe we've earned and of course my flowers every fortnight.

[Hekate]

201. Actually, the first thing was that wives went to work, not as a feminist statement but to maintain

... the family's middle class status as the husband's wages lost value.

That vanishing middle class we keep hearing about now? The only reason we didn't hear about it by 1980 is that the middle class was maintained on the backs of women -- who were not making anywhere near what their husbands were making, but whose wages still made the difference between slipping out of the middle class and staying in it.

Hekate

[Liberal_in_LA]

13. better to just leave the country than to commit suicide over $$

[EFerrari]

15. Moving costs $$$. n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

16. I hear ya.

[EFerrari]

18. But you know, you just gave me a good idea.

There are places on this continent where the economy isn't in the tank. Canada is doing better than we are, isn't it? Brazil, maybe? There's probably work there or capital. Maybe I should go nuts and try to find bookings for him on a "Go where the money is" tour. lol

:)

[Wednesdays]

23. But how long would Canada or Brazil allow you to stay?

I know for one that Canada won't take in anyone who's up to their ears in debt.

[EFerrari]

25. Not immigration, booking dates.

:hi:

[Oregone]

36. Canada doesn't examine debt

You just have to prove (with a bank statement) you have 12 to 15K in liquid assets. You can take a HELOC out to get that if you need to.

[malaise]

101. Actually he could find lots of work in Hotels in Latin

America and the Caribbean.

[EFerrari]

106. I am going to try to look into that.

If I could find work for Doug, I can find work for him. Why not.

[Wednesdays]

21. And which country do you run to?

The Cayman Islands? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

33. My brother isn't running anywhere. He's got three teenagehoods

to live through. :rofl:

[raccoon]

210. Leave the country and go effing where? nt

[SunnySong]

10. Yeah that struck me as all sorts of wrong too.. Even a coke habit would make that hard

to explain.

[EFerrari]

14. Try living in California and supporting three kids

and see how much you have left over for rent, let alone coke.

[SunnySong]

22. Seriously, and not to be personal, if you can't support three kids and a household on 100k

a year you are doing it very wrong.


I've heard the California excuse before... but many families seem to manage in California on a third of that.

Of course they spend within their means and not their ego.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SunnySong]

39. Most families with three kids in California would be blessed with 50k a year...

There simply isn't a proper excuse.

We will simply have to disagree,

[EFerrari]

50. Wrong. You can't support two households on that amount

when a family court assigns a child support commensurate with the standard of living in middle class San Mateo.

We don't disagree, you're just wrong and blatantly offensive. But, apparently, that's your thing.

[SunnySong]

56. Hold on a second it is blatently offensive to sy you should be able to support a family on 100k?

You want to blame the sexist courts fine...


I understand wanting to live in San Mateo it's a very exclusive town...


But reality is you can live within you means at 100k... maybe that might involve movie to a more middle class city (You know one with minorities that aren't all Asian engineers) ... or maybe not owning a car that doesn't require payments'


But don't get on the white bread upper middle class high horse of woe is me I's only makes a hundred thousand dollars every year, why that is barely enough to afford these SUV payments and the horseback riding lessons for junior...

[EFerrari]

58. Um, my family isn't white and with respect to the rest of your post

I think I'm glad you're laying yourself out so clearly here at DU. :hi:

[uppityperson]

64. Yup. Been watching that one.

"You want to blame the sexist courts fine...


I understand wanting to live in San Mateo it's a very exclusive town...


But reality is you can live within you means at 100k... maybe that might involve movie to a more middle class city (You know one with minorities that aren't all Asian engineers) ... or maybe not owning a car that doesn't require payments'


But don't get on the white bread upper middle class high horse of woe is me I's only makes a hundred thousand dollars every year, why that is barely enough to afford these SUV payments and the horseback riding lessons for junior..."

[EFerrari]

66. Not to mention, my brother can't dictate to his ex-wife where she should live.

Yep, I've been reading Sunnysong's posts with interest for some time myself.

[laughingliberal]

100. That was what I noticed. The ex-husband doesn't get to tell his ex-wife where to live.

Apparently, in his rush to spew some TP, Sunny Song didn't read well.

[malaise]

115. Ding ding

I suspect many persons on this thread have not followed he reality of divorce, alimony and raising children.

[a la izquierda]

208. I thought I was the only one...

I'm afraid if I respond, I will be the one with the tombstone. Not worth it, but curious enough to see how long he/she takes to do him/herself in.
The immigration threads are a particular treat.

[BlueCheese]

68. The funny thing is...

... San Mateo is a nice middle class town, but not even close to exclusive.

[EFerrari]

69. San Mateo has slums and mansions just like most of the towns

up in that area. It's surreal and uneven.

[SunnySong]

70. Median income for a family was $95,750 poverty level 5.6%

Yeah that sounds middle class ....:eyes:


Maybe you have noticed but middle class by definition doesn't include the rich

[uppityperson]

79. But you wrote "San Mateo it's a very exclusive town". It isn't exclusive.

Goalpost change! Fail.

[SunnySong]

84. An average house listing price of $783,362 seems exclusive to me

maybe we have different meanings for the same word.


http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/San_Mateo-California/

[uppityperson]

86. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8781423&mesg_id=8782078

[Gormy Cuss]

92. Listing price means bubkis. Average sale price was 552K --still high, but substantially lower than

asking price figures--and as one can see from the neighborhood map, there are some fairly dramatic differences by neighborhood.
http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/California/San_Mateo-heat_map/

No need to inflate the values to make your point, Sunny.

[SunnySong]

94. The lowest on the map is 570 to 683... I agree on the listing price vs sales price

and yes I picked the higher number...


San Mateo is a 10% city which means 90% of Americans will never be able to afford to live there... claiming it has slums as one poster did above also seemed a bit of a streach...


If I move to Greenwich Ct and find it hard to live on 100k a year its my own bloody fault.

[EFerrari]

98. Excuse me. I worked at the security company that guarded San Mateo Schools.

They were our most active accounts. Not only is it not a stretch, it's probably an understatment.

But, please, keep digging.

[Gormy Cuss]

102. My point was you were picking a BS number and that weakens the argument.

Note that there are over 400 properties in foreclosure in San Mateo. That probably influences the difference between asking prices and actual sales. Remember also that medians can disguise the broad range of housing values in a community, as can mixing in a lot of small condos or McMansions.
The other poster's comment that there are slums and mansions can not be refuted by a community overview on Trulia. Can not. Neither does the median income refute that it's difficult for her brother to support his family's household and his own on 100K when one of the households is in San Mateo.

[EFerrari]

109. Thanks for getting it. n/t

[SunnySong]

162. If you need well over half a million dollars to even think of living there

I would consider that exclusive...

You values may be different.


That is hardly a goalpost change...

[SunnySong]

72. So what do you suggest Uppityperson?

Should we all chip in and help those poor families that only make six figures...

Should we expand already strained social services so her brother can afford his car payment???


Do you really want to raise the poverty level eighty thousand dollars so we can be more inclusive to those suffering in McMansions?????


Yeah poverty is a pet issue of mine... But where I come from you need to be poor first.


Over 100k a year he should be donating money to charity no dodging the Repo man...

And don't understand why you don;t see that.

[EFerrari]

74. Because you are flat out wrong.

My brother doesn't decide where his ex lives.

My brother doesn't decide how much child support to pay.

My brother doesn't set lending terms anywhere. Or rents, for that matter or any of the cost of living here.

All he does is work.

And please can the "poverty is my pet issue" cr@p. I have actually done poverty activism in the Bay Area and none of us would call poverty our "pet". FAIL.

[SunnySong]

76. Obviously this is personal for you and we live in two different americas.

I know families that are living out of there car and would love a $10 an hour job.


Since this is clearly emotional subject to close to home perhaps we should agree to disagree.

As I said a few posts ago...

[EFerrari]

77. I would love a $10 an hour job. But that has nothing to do with

the basic math that my brother is dealing with. The last time a family of four could be supported on a normal income around here was 1975 or so. Yet, he's being asked to live in a time warp.

Basically, at this point, he's an ATM that can barely afford its own parking place. He can't even move to a less expensive area because then, he has to give up time with the girls.

And believe me, I'm never too "emotional" here to deal with bullshit.

[uppityperson]

78. I suggest you quit assuming and doing those borderline insults you like to post.

You want to blame the sexist courts fine...
Wtf? "You can't support two households on that amount when a family court assigns a child support commensurate with the standard of living in middle class San Mateo" becomes "you want to blame the sexist courts fine". Well, yes, the family court assigns child support but where did she write "sexist courts fine"?

I understand wanting to live in San Mateo it's a very exclusive town...
As others have pointed out, hardly.

But reality is you can live within you means at 100k... maybe that might involve movie to a more middle class city (You know one with minorities that aren't all Asian engineers) ... or maybe not owning a car that doesn't require payments'
Yeah, and he can dictate to his ex where to live, right?

But don't get on the white bread upper middle class high horse of woe is me I's only makes a hundred thousand dollars every year, why that is barely enough to afford these SUV payments and the horseback riding lessons for junior...
Again wtf? that sort of bs was never posted here. The only one assuming such things is you.

You do seem to like borderline insults, changing goalposts and attacking.

[LanternWaste]

85. I would suggest that we err on the side of...

"So what do you suggest.."

I would suggest that we err on the side of manners when disputing the a personal claim made by another poster, and allow them respect and ourselves civility when the best counterpoint we have is "I know people..." or anything else that weak.

[EFerrari]

93. I don't have a good enough imagination to make a story like this up.

I wish I did because that would mean it's not happening.

Whatever. Scary things are happening to working people. Maybe the safer thing to do is to just discount them. I now understand that, too.

[LanternWaste]

97. I have zero doubts that the story is absolutely true

I have zero doubts the story is absolutely true. I've been reading your posts for years now, and have no reason to discount anything you write.

I was simply attempting to keep my point of view as neutral as possible-- if I implied any doubts, it was wholly unintentional, and I do apologize for that. My point was to your responder who acted with little grace or dignity is all.

[EFerrari]

99. Thanks, LanternWaste.

[SunnySong]

95. Fair enough nt

[Retrograde]

178. San Mateo's exclusive?

Real estate prices in the Bay Area are high, period. San Mateo is about middling, but when it comes to "exclusivity" it's not in the same class as Atherton or Hillsborough.

BTW, out of curiosity, where do you live?

[uppityperson]

59. "There simply isn't a proper excuse." is blatently offensive.

as is more of what you post.

[1955doubledie]

62. As was the continual moving of the goalposts

n/t

[SunnySong]

71. Less offensive than claiming poverty on 100k a year????

[SunnySong]

73. What would your excuse be for making over 2,000 a week and hiding your car

because you were a few months behind in payments.


If her brother was unemployed or underemployed I would understand but he make over six figures and yet is so bad at math he can't buy a car within his budget... something people who make a fifth of that manage...

Hell one weeks paycheck can get him a decent ride free and clear.

I am not looking to pick on him but I hardly am going to sit back and feel pity when there are real families suffering in America.

[EFerrari]

75. Keep talking.

[uppityperson]

81. "I am not looking to pick on him but". You shoulda stopped before the "but" as that negates your

assertion. I'm am not looking to pick on him but I am. "is so bad at math he can't buy a car within his budget" "Hell one weeks paycheck can get him a decent ride free and clear." etc etc etc.

[EFerrari]

88. I went looking for a video and all I found was this fundraiser. lol

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?n=21&ei=utf-8&fr=yfp-t-701-s&fr2=tab-web&tnr=21&p=gene+burkert&vid=0001196681516&dt=&l=0&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fyts.video.search.yahoo.com%2Fimage%2FBB91F2C1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spike.com%2Fvideo%2Fradio-kre-chrs%2F3001932%3Fcmpnid%3D753%26refsite%3D7063&tit=Radio+KRE++CHRS++Annual++Fundraiser++Event+JH++TRIO++SHADOW&sigr=129159mtr&newfp=1

[WillowTree]

89. Did it never occur to you....

.......that his current car may well have been within his budget when he bought it?. I'll bet that it didn't, because you seem to really get off on just dishing out assumptions that fit your pre-determined scenario.

[SunnySong]

90. WillowTree... yes I assumed a person with a six figure income could afford a car...

Jeez am I the only person here who thinks that complaining about making ends meet on 100k plus a year seems a little unseemly in this economy.

[uppityperson]

96. In this situation, yes, you are the only one making assumptions like that.

[EFerrari]

103. But that was my point. That it's obscene that anyone who makes that much

has to be late with a car payment.

It's unreal. And whether you get it or not doesn't matter. He's among the lucky few in the music community here that have a steady union job. And his life is hell, not because he's paying off baubles but because even at that salary, he can't keep up with the basics needed for two households. Rent, utilities, groceries, health insurance, car payment.

Yes, when he bought his minivan, he was married and only supporting one household. It was well within his budget. But he couldn't have bought a used bug because there's all this equipment to haul back and forth every night and if you are late because your car breaks down, you are blacklisted for life, period, don't even bring it up.

He's not buying anything, he's not doing crack, he doesn't take vacations, he doesn't eat out, he doesn't "go shopping", he doesn't patronize ladies of the evening or gamble on the intertubes.

If you see a sax player thumbing his way into the city this summer, please give him a ride.

It is unreal that 100k doesn't protect you or your family from this sh1t, but it doesn't.

[blueamy66]

175. 6 figures BEFORE child support

understand???

[SunnySong]

186. Yes men need to pay for their children I would assume that he would be paying for them

if he had not divorced. (Though I grant you child support is very rarely fair in these higher end cases)

[blueamy66]

193. Yeah, you're right.

Child support is rarely fair. Rarely.

[Riftaxe]

228. I did not know child support payments were

limited only to people who made over 6 figures, i got some phone calls to make.

Face it, claiming poverty at or over 100k is a slap in the face to the majority of Americans who have to pay the same bills, and manage to do it better on a hell of a lot less.

Perhaps you should go look up the median/average income of an American, and if that is within your capacity, start looking into what real poverty in America is...but i doubt you will bother, might be inconvenient, no?

[blueamy66]

229. within my capacity?

gotta be snarky, huh?

[uncommon]

124. Downsize. nt

[EFerrari]

127. How exactly do you downsize your ex? Please let me know

because that would be valuable information!

lol

[uncommon]

129. She should get a job for starters. But aside from that, if his lifestyle is no longer

affordable due to the domestic support obligations, then he needs to downsize his lifestyle. It sucks but thems the breaks. On half his salary he should be able to live reasonably well.

[EFerrari]

133. So, how do you "should" your ex into getting a job?

I'm all ears. :)

[blueamy66]

177. amen

good answer

[uncommon]

113. I agree. But you aren't going to get anywhere with this argument on DU. People are entitled

to whatever standard of living they believe themselves to be entitled to. Duh.

[SunnySong]

117. The whole arguement strikes me as so strange esp. on a progressive site,,,

I have no doubt the whole story is both true and frustrating... but to attempt to use it as an example of middle class struggles boggles the mind.

[EFerrari]

121. May boggle your mind but not that of people actually living it.

It's classic. You do the right thing, you get the right job. You draw down a paycheck and it's spent for you before you cash it. What could be more middle class in America?

[uncommon]

131. Then rethink your damn strategy. Thinking you can afford something and actually being

able to afford it are two very different things.

[EFerrari]

134. I'm sorry.

[uncommon]

215. Nice bunny.

[EFerrari]

119. Both of you need a serious reality check.

And a civility check, for that matter.

There's nothing particularly "entitled" about trying to pay your rent, utilities, grocery bill and car payment.

[uncommon]

123. There is if your rent is unnecessary outlandish. Same goes for your car payment.

And those grocery bills can really add up when you think you should get to eat steak every day.

I see this every day, you will not convince me that someone living within their means at $100K a year is living in poverty. I call bullshit.

[EFerrari]

125. Project much?

Holy cow.

[uncommon]

128. No. I live within my means. And someone who makes six figures has no excuse. None other than

entitlement to "finer" things.

[EFerrari]

130. That's the ticket!

lol

[uncommon]

132. You really are just being ignorant. Very *lol* indeed.

[EFerrari]

136. There is no refuting that argument.

:)

[uppityperson]

144. You are special.

What part of 2 households did you miss?

[SunnySong]

168. Which part of over a hundred thousand did you miss...

And since when was 50k per a household considered the poverty line?


I have no qualms that bro got himself in a pickle... ex-wives and kids can burn through money like water.


But the concept that it isn't fixable on that salary is ridiculous...


Cut out the non-essentials narrow your nut two 2 grand a month.... (which will still leave 6 grand for the IRS and the Wife.)

[uppityperson]

174. I find it odd how I reply to uncommon, then you step in to answer. Odd, that

Who is saying 50k a yr is Poverty line"?

[SunnySong]

179. The man make more money than almost everyone else in America...

He makes well over double the national average or median or any number you want to use...

With his wealth he should have no issues feeding clothing and sheltering two households...


If the divorce court has decided that one of those households should be very nice and the other much less so then so be it...

But still two households should be a lay down at 8-10k a month.

[uppityperson]

182. $100,000 is more money than almost everyone else in America? Nope.

wiki says 15.73% make $100,000. 1.5% make $250,000 and above.

Didn't answer my post though.

[SunnySong]

188. No wiki says 6.24% (2008 census)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

And that is pre-reccesion


Maybe you were looking at something else?????


So yes he makes more money than almost everyone else in America.

[uppityperson]

189. I find it odd how I reply to uncommon, then you step in to answer. Odd, that

Who is saying 50k a yr is Poverty line" other than "you"? Still haven't answered that.

I was looking at household income. And, since he is using this for 2 households, then it works out 54.87% level.

[SunnySong]

194. Which still doesn't explain why he can't make his car payment. nt

[uppityperson]

195. Who is saying 50k a yr is "Poverty line" other than "you"?

[uncommon]

216. Your own statistics prove that the vast majority of Americans make less than $100K per year lol.

[uppityperson]

219. Who is saying 50k a yr is "Poverty line" other than "you"?

I notice "you" never quite answer a question directed at "you".

[EFerrari]

183. You've never looked at a pay stub in your life, have you.

[SunnySong]

191. I don't think I am the one "out of touch" here.

Yes I am well aware that taxes are taken out of checks... I'm sure his check post tax and child support would make many people very happy.


Which leads the question why would you think I didn't unless you didn't really read my comment you are responding to.

[uncommon]

217. Lol even after taxes this shouldn't be nearly the sad sad story you have made it out to be.

Ends meet indeed lol.

[SunnySong]

135. When you earn more than 94% of all Americans you should be able to pay your way

people will naturally question when that outcome isn't present.

[EFerrari]

137. Right. If you only count dollars in.

Gee, I think I was taught to add AND subtract by second grade. I guess our schools aren't what they used to be.

[uncommon]

218. We all understand that money comes in AND goes out -

how much goes out is largely a personal decision. Once one pays for taxes, insurance, and court ordered support, the rest needs to be divided in a sensible way to cover other expenses.

If it isn't enough to cover the expenses you WANT, then you need to rethink your expenses.

[Taitertots]

140. Reality check indeed

When your rent is for too much house for you to afford, your utilities are for too much house for you too afford, and your car is too expensive for you too afford.

Your brother is trying to live the rich boy life and it isn't going to happen.

[EFerrari]

141. Try reading the thread, genius.

Good god.

[Taitertots]

146. I've read the thread, boo hoo he has to support his ex-wife and children

Lets break out the worlds smallest violin for him.

Even giving most of his income to them he still should be able to get by because that puts him near median income. The fact that he is having trouble while maintaining median income is just demonstrating that he is being stupid with his money.

[EFerrari]

149. This thread really has brought out the best in everyone.

No, that doesn't put him near median income.

That puts him in the position of having access to about a quarter of his income and no access to credit since the crash. Just like everyone else around here.

The point isn't the child support. The point is that since the crash, no one around here can refinance anything as they have been doing for the last 30 years to keep ends meeting with mirrors.

That doesn't make my brother stupid. That makes him a sitting duck.

But, thanks. I'll have to remember how thoughtful you were on this thread. Who knows when that kind of brain power may be needed again.

[Taitertots]

151. It is absolutely about having to support the people who are dependent on him

Why else doesn't he get 3/4 of his income? It has been the only reason you have given why he can't afford his lavish lifestyle.

You think refinancing his mansion in the rich neighborhood is going to help him? Buying the most expensive house you can afford and expecting to refinance doesn't sound like a smart idea at all. It sure doesn't make him a sitting duck.

[uppityperson]

153. Huh, and I thought a different poster was having troubles with assumptions.

You take the cake.

[Taitertots]

158. There is that hot breeze coming through again

A whole lot of nothing just blowing on through

[uppityperson]

160. you are precious.

[Taitertots]

163. It is like someone is trying to post, but nothing is coming out

[uppityperson]

165. Yet you keep replying. Odd.

[Taitertots]

170. Whoosh, there goes another gust

[uppityperson]

171. Yup, I remember you.

[Taitertots]

173. Are you finally going to post something that isn't just hot air?

[EFerrari]

157. I'd point out to you that you've invented a lavish lifestyle and a mansion

which my working brother has never had but that might shock you senseless and I don't think Skinner has medics on call.

[Taitertots]

166. I'm sure he lives in a shack in San Mateo

Maybe he should live somewhere where the average sale price is below a half million dollars.

[EFerrari]

169. My brother doesn't live in San Mateo.

His children do.

[Taitertots]

172. I'm sorry, I don't have your brother's address memorized

So where does he live? What is the square footage?

[EFerrari]

180. You know, what I write here is not for you.

It's for me and for the community that I depend on and not for you. If I wanted intimate contact with the inanimate, I'd go scrub the bathroom floor with my toothbrush and at least wind up with something clean. As it is, I think I'm all done with you tonight.

[Taitertots]

184. Sounds like you can't admit that it is a mansion in a super rich neighborhood

Boo hoo, you don't agree with me so I'm going to storm off. Why don't you go tell it to the mirror if you can't handle any discussion about it?

[uppityperson]

187. Ah.

[uppityperson]

143. Things change. Divorces happen. Really, how DARE he not budget that into his life?

"If her brother was unemployed or underemployed I would understand but he make over six figures and yet is so bad at math he can't buy a car within his budget... something people who make a fifth of that manage..."

True that you aren't going to get anywhere with this argument on DU because most of us realize that things happen and you can't plan for everything.

[uncommon]

220. You can't plan for everything. But you can make changes to your lifestyle

when things happen that you haven't planned for.

It's not up to the rest of the world to keep individuals in whatever level of comfort they have become accustomed to.

[uppityperson]

222. Of course, who says it is up to the rest of the world to keep you comfortable?

No one here is.

Who is saying "don't make changes"? No one here.

Not sure why "you" keep posting things like this on a post about someone having trouble.

[Hannah Bell]

118. what part of two households didn't you get?

[uncommon]

111. What family court order support not contingent upon the payers income?

From experience, I get all of $75/week in child support and my ex-husband makes about $50K a year.

[EFerrari]

112. And I have a framed $35 check that sums to the total child support

I got for my two boys.

I don't know the formula that is being used but I would have loved to have it applied to me in 1990.

[uncommon]

114. For serious. I am lucky that I don't need the money because

$75/week doesn't even pay for before and after school daycare for 3 hours total per day. Never mind summers.

[blueamy66]

164. I understand completely.

People who don't have to pay child support just don't get it.

Good luck to your bro.

[malaise]

104. It's not that simple

Suppose he's also looking after an aging mother and has to pay alimony. You do not know his situation.

[uncommon]

110. Agreed. Sounds like a case of house-poor because there is little other excuse unless

someone has a serious uninsured medical problem.

[EFerrari]

116. Nope. When you're supporting two households on that money here

you don't need any excuse. An angel maybe, an excuse, no.

[uncommon]

120. I support one household in a high median income area on $40K a year. I do just fine.

Nothing short of a severe medical problem not covered by insurance is going to convince me that this guy should be suffering at $100K a year.

[EFerrari]

122. I have no need to convince you of anything. n/t

[uncommon]

126. That's good, because you won't. nt

[malaise]

207. Then perhaps you should do some research

You're in for a hell of a surprise

[malaise]

3. It is insane -people are suffering big time

and some are making crazy decisions.

[EFerrari]

6. We're going to see more of these.

It's not over yet in any way. :(

[peacetalksforall]

7. It's not the anrachists breaking windows - it's the police undercover. Same trick - forty years.

[EFerrari]

11. After reading around, I no longer believe that. n/t

[taught_me_patience]

17. How did your mother lose 3/4 of every penny?

What were her investments? No asset classes fell that much.

[EFerrari]

19. Real estate. Her equity vanished almost overnight.

For example, between us we bought two units in San Francisco and put $100k down. Gone, and now that property is underwater.

[taught_me_patience]

26. Your 79 yo mother was speculating in real estate?

Very poor financial planning, especially if you cannot afford the carrying costs.

[EFerrari]

31. No, my 79 year old mother is a commercial broker

and has been for 30 years. And all the commercial brokers in this valley are in the same shape.

[Ignis]

37. Yep. They're all hurting in the area.

...Which, given some of their politics, I'm trying to say without schadenfreude. :D

[EFerrari]

44. This is my mom (but I hear you):

[Ignis]

46. No disrespect to your saintly mum at all, I promise.

But you know what I mean. ;) That group trends fairly right, even here in LeftyLand. :)

[EFerrari]

51. Oh, she's no saint, lol! And her politics is one reason she had to go into business for herself

around here. No kidding!

[Ignis]

55. Oh, that's funny!

And very believable.

I bet she's popular at the industry conventions. :D

[EFerrari]

57. Mom was a little brown woman with an accent

and no one would give her a shot at commercial real estate. Certainly not people like the Sobratos or like Barry Swenson. She went around them and did fine. It was a classic case of being misunderestimated and winning a lot, lol.

But everyone is hurting right now. There are no loans, no deals being cut, people are trying to tread water and hang on to whatever they can. It's a shame, really, because she should have retired the year before the excrement hit the rotating member.

[Hannah Bell]

35. thanks, that's helpful.

[EFerrari]

38. Wtf is the matter with people on the intertubes.

I guess it's easy to judge other people until it hits you.

[1955doubledie]

42. Just be glad you posted on a "liberal" site

Just imagine if you had posted it on...well, just about anywhere else.

[EFerrari]

52. What?

[1955doubledie]

63. Let's just say, I agree with you totally.

n/t

[EFerrari]

65. Thanks. I guess I feel a little helpless

because while I can try to mitigate a little bit what my mom is going through, I don't see a way clear to help my brother. And the icing is that while he's shouldering all this stuff, he has to be sane and positive for his daughters and send them out into the world with a healthy attitude. I don't know how he does it.

[taught_me_patience]

49. We all know people hit by the recession.

Hell... my parents lost 10-20% of their wealth. But losing 3/4 of your wealth at age 79 is extraordinary. I just wanted to know what happened and who is to blame. In this case, it sounds like the individual and the economy are to blame (if the story is true).

[EFerrari]

54. You don't seem to be at all familiar with commercial real estate.

Those deals take years to make. It doesn't give you enough flexibility to simply sell if you think the market is tanking.

But thanks for your gratuitous judgment. I'll put that where I put all the other uninformed authoritarian cr@p I read on the intertubes.

[Taitertots]

139. So she got caught buying into too much house instead of properly investing

Sounds like a terrible investing strategy.

[EFerrari]

142. No, she's a commercial broker. And I don't have the patience to explain that

to you.

[Taitertots]

147. Sounds like a terrible investment strategy, should have properly invested that money

Sounds like she put herself too far extended into one thing and got bit in the ass for her poor investment skills.

[EFerrari]

150. Yes, my mom and every other commercial broker in this valley.

As I said, I don't have the patience to explain commercial real estate to someone of your acuity.

[Taitertots]

155. Why don't we ask your mom, she knew enough to lose all her money in it

I'm sure you both know all about it.

It was obvious that there was an unsustainable bubble building. Someone directly involved should have been well aware and properly invested some of their money.

[EFerrari]

159. Thanks, Captain Obvious. Maybe next time there is a catastrophe

we can get the benefit of your hindsight again! :applause:

[Taitertots]

161. I knew years before, but no one wants to listen when they are blinded by greed n/t

[EFerrari]

167. I'm so sorry but you're going to have to go project all over someone else.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. My son lost his job in February

He didn't get any unemployment till June. He got one check and then they stopped. He spent 3 weeks calling every day until he finally got a human being on the phone yesterday. He is supposedly getting a check Thursday.

Fortunately he doesn't have a family to support. But I don't know how he's kept from losing his mind. This has just been insane.

[EFerrari]

108. Oh, geeze. I'm so sorry to hear that.

:(

[Taitertots]

105. If your brother can't get by on $100,000 a year it is because he is being stupid with his money n/t

[EFerrari]

107. LOL

ETA: I guess it would be too much to ask that you read the thread before you insult my brother. From you, yes, it would be. :)

[Taitertots]

138. He thinks he can hang onto the rich life when it is clear he can't

Can't afford the ex-wife, the children, and the rich life anymore and refuses to accept it. Lets break out the worlds smallest violin for him.

How much is he paying a month for the car they want to repo? For his Cali exclusive rich neighborhood? If he is too stupid to readjust his lifestyle to his new situation than it is a clear example of being stupid with his money.

[uppityperson]

145. You bring so much to DU, am so glad you are part of our caring community, working together

[Taitertots]

148. That is strange, I just felt a gust of hot air and nothing of substance

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

156. +1

"First you insult a poster's mother, and now her brother. You know, her brother can eventually work his way out of this, but you will STILL be an asshole."

[Taitertots]

203. His brother is making a lot of money, he has more than enough to support his ex-wife and children

Now he can't afford the high life and won't accept it. Even after his obligations he is still going to be in fairly decent condition. I reserve may empathy for the people who really deserve it.

He already has more than enough to support his obligations. I'm more empathetic of people who wish they could do more but are denied that opportunity.

[fishbulb703]

202. Ignore the hate, anyone who can't live on 100k is an idiot. nt

[citizen snips]

154. That story really warmed the cockles of my heart.

shit most families would love to make $100,000 a year but hell I guess mine will just settle for 40k.

[WinkyDink]

206. You lost me at "over $100K", sorry.

[Lance_Boyle]

4. That poor struggling homeowner!

If only you and I and everyone else had just chipped in to buy his house for him when he ceased making payments this never would have happened!

[Wednesdays]

9. That's something called "community"

:think:

[Critters2]

80. +1 nt

[Oregone]

28. Wow, in multiple threads now you are attacking struggling homeowners

Im sensing a theme here. Im glad you found your "gungeon"-esque example to tote around

[Wednesdays]

32. It's nothing new.

Be prepared to see many more.

[zeemike]

30. Yes and if he only had that land his ancestors homesteaded

Years ago he could have just said fuck it and moved there where he was free and he could produce enough to feed his family.
But Archer Daniels Midland own it now after they ran his ancestors off the land and foreclosed on him...and that beast cares not at all for his situation.
So lets face the facts....they (the corporate elite) own the land and us and we are expendable.

[Ignis]

40. Silly rabbit, farms are owned by corporations!

What's this ancient history about Americans actually owning and working their own land?

[1955doubledie]

43. I own and farm my own land!

All 10' x 12' of it!

[Ignis]

48. If you put all my square-foot gardens together...

I might have that much land. :)

[malaise]

45. This particular homeowner may have made and choices

golf course home and all but who knows maybe he did have a job and could have afforded it at that time. That said the majority of people losing homes are not living in exclusive neighborhoods.

[Lance_Boyle]

53. Foreclosure Rate Highest Among Wealthy:

http://www.planetizen.com/node/45023

Apparently some of them don't react well to being told "you can no longer have this since you can no longer afford to pay for it."

[yella_dawg]

91. Are you channeling Sarah Palin?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. While the story is part of a pattern

unless it is put in that pattern... it is a local story. This is why these stories drive me nuts and up the wall...

And they make me wonder... what are they hiding?

As to the owners of that home... I feel very sorry for them. Our economic system (which is post capitalist, no matter how many people claim it is capitalist) needs deep and systemic reforms. There is no doubt about it in my mind.

[SunnySong]

176. I love this post... 150 responses about 20 pertaining to the OP and

The rest on the various struggles of the super rich heroically making it on six figure incomes and/or as the matriarch of a declining real estate empire.


Honestly I just re read the whole thing and it freaking hilarious...


I should print it out down at the local food bank and give everyone a good laugh.

[EFerrari]

181. Whoooooooooooooooosh

[uppityperson]

185. I'd say a good case of envy also, perhaps that is where the resentment is

coming from. Or maybe having to pay child support to an ex who, after all, if she wasn't a bitch and knew how to handle her income, she wouldn't need him to support her.

[SunnySong]

198. Well I don't have to pay child support.. and I don't exactly have envy but I do wiish I made

100k a year... I'm not going to lie...

I actually am under-employed in a contract job with no benefits and no withholding.... but the pay is good so I am luckier than most.

[Statistical]

209. "knew how to handle her income, she wouldn't need him to support her."

CHILD SUPPORT. As in support for the child.

If the mother and father were living together (married or not) a portion of the father's income would go to supporting the child.
If the parents split up then a portion of father's income should still be used to support a child.

In all situations a portion of father's income should support the child. What part of this concept is hard to understand?

WTF does this have to do with "if she wasn't a bitch and knew how to handle her income".

[uppityperson]

213. it was sarcasm. Sorry, thought it was obvious and didn't use the sarcasm smiley.

That is what I argue with people all the time, sorry for the confusion. I was being sarcastic since another poster didn't seem to be getting it.

[Statistical]

214. Oops. Fail on me.

The sad thing is I have seen similar post that were not sarcastic. Yours was a "little" over the top. It should have clued me in.

Don't post before coffee. I broke the rule. :)

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SunnySong]

192. There isn't a sfexpat2000 in this entire post unless someone changed their name...

But you post is par for the course in in this Alice in Wonderland where the the rich 5% are struggling and wee are all supposed to get together and applaud their fortitude under such hardship.

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SunnySong]

197. You have got to be kidding me... you do realise how silly (and paranoid) you sound.

I have not been making personal attacks.


I pointed out that if someone is making over a hundred thousand dollars a year in steady income they may want to reexamine their spending habits if they are hiding their car from a Repo man.


I don't think it is in the best interests of progressives in general to concern ourselves of the money management foibles of the wealthy.


You find nothing awkward about talking about the pain and struggle of making it on 100k a year when upwards of 20% of our citizens are unemployed?

[Name removed]

200. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

199. LOL +1

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[Dogtown]

204. Ha!

I was trying to figure out who this really was based on posting style.

OMC, resurrected.

And still has nothing constructive to do or say.

[malaise]

205. And you of course focused on the OP

Now that's hilarious.

[uncommon]

211. Seriously. I told my brother about this thread last night and he was absolutely

incredulous.

$100K man's story will make me super sad the day that he is living out of his car, no job, no prospects.

[Name removed]

212. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uncommon]

221. Exactly, no one should assume that they will always

make as much money as they do today. Keeping expenses low as much as possible is just smart.

Like another poster said, you can't plan for everything - but you also can't assume that when something you didn't plan for happens you should be able to keep doing things the way you were before.

One day you may be able to afford a $4,000 mortgage, a $500 car payment, a boat with a rental slip and two vacations a year, and the next you may not.

Everyone should be entitled to a warm, safe place to sleep and live, healthy food, medical care, and sufficient freedom to pursue happiness - beyond that you just have to earn it.

[uppityperson]

223. 1 day you can afford a $300 mortage payment, food, electricity, next day you can't

What is offensive is the continuing posting of "you are so fucking rich why the hell are you complaining" posts. Changes happen and when it goes to shit having posts like on this topic by some of "you" are not necessary.

Except to create flames and get attention so am done with all of you.

[uncommon]

225. This isn't the same

situation at all. A $100K income (that the person in question is still receiving) is more than enough to live on, even when paying support and taxes.

[Pathwalker]

224. And also plan for divorce! And expensive emergencies! Future medical conditions!

Haven't *some* of you shit on this total stranger enough? You don't know him, you don't know ALL his circumstances, you don't even bother to deduct for TAXES, you just sit up there on your high horses, looking down on someone you don't even know, showing everyone exactly what Compassionate Conservative really means! It means being so damned conservative over who you are willing to offer an iota of compassion to, all while patting yourselves on the back for being perfect - IOW - never having had to suffer a series of really expensive unforeseen emergencies!

[uppityperson]

226. AND

when someone does have a problem, then you get to say "if only you'd do something rather than expect us to take care of you" irregardless of the fact that isn't happening.

On the other hand, it is good that these posters have told us more about themselves.

[DiverDave]

227. 100K where I live

is alot.
We bought our house for 77K in 98.
I made 38K last year, the wife got unemployment, add 330 week to that.

I could dig 100K.