Parenting before the Cell Phone: Don't knock anyone up and don't get arrested.

[SunnySong]

My dads speech in the early eighties before handing me the car keys on Friday night... (Sometimes I wouldn't come home till Sunday afternoon a smidge worse for the wear)



Why would a parent really want to know what their 14 year old daughter was really up to at the sleepover or how the grass turf ended up embedded in the muffler of their 16 year olds cars.


Helicopter parents that live through their kids and follow them on Facebook and call them over the weekend really creep me out.


What ever happened to the don't ask don't tell parenting of the seventies and eighties.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Don't know because I didn't practice it in the 70's or 80's. My son had a curfew and

would have been grounded for a year had he gone out on a Friday night and not returned til Sunday afternoon.

[leeroysphitz]

2. I'm not allowed to call my kids on weekends without being labeled, by you, a creepy

helicopter parent?

[SunnySong]

4. When they are out at a party... well yes.

If the kidlet needs you he or she will call...


I have been out with actual adults who get up from a dinner table to check on their 17 year old daughter at 10pm....


Outside of special circumstances I cannot believe that is good for a child...

I had another single mother confide in me that her daughter was a virgin and she knew this cause she read her diary when she was at school...sorry but that is just creepy.

[teenagebambam]

3. Wow, if I had disappeared with car for a weekend

I would never had seen those car keys again. Assuming I could still see after I was released from the hospital.

[SunnySong]

5. Well they knew I was going for the weekend...

First I was 16-17 not 12... and second they probably enjoyed a quiet weekend with me out of their hair. nt

[WCGreen]

6. It reminds me of my dads sex talk...

You know what a rubber is?

I thought he was talking about the things put over their shoes when it raine.

He snorted, Use them...

I was about 10...

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. I remember I'd go off to camp or to stay with grandma for a week or two,

and my parents never called me, never called the camp to "make sure I was okay", never called Grandma to make sure she was feeding me okay...

I'd leave the house, and my parents - though maybe sometimes a little worried - survived just fine without being in constant contact with me.

And when I went off to college, I talked about every two weeks to my mom, and when I failed something my parents were like "Well, hope you learned to actually study this time" instead of what they do now, which is to call the professor and chew him/her out for "letting my precious Dakota fail a test, you meanie, obviously you don't know how to cheat, and why didn't you let the parents know that this big test was coming up so we could make sure our precious little gifts were studying properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And I learned how to grow up to be a functioning, mature, capable adult because of it.

Thanks, mom and dad, for letting me grow up!

The greatest gift any parent can give any child: letting them grow up to be an actual adult.


Helicopter parents: that should be sufficient cause to bring in social services.

[Robb]

8. I like the idea of a mobile phone for emergencies

...Also, from what I can tell a phone that does things other than make calls is de rigueur for young people.

But, while a little bluntly put, I can appreciate the notion that a little responsibility being handed over, and real trust, can give a child room to grow into it. Or, more likely and as I remember it, you do what you're not supposed to anyhow but put a lot of effort into not being caught.

There's good lessons in there either way.

[RobinA]

14. I Have Noticed

that kids who are in constant cell phone contact with parents don't learn how to solve problems quite as well. I'm talking teens. The minute something happens they are on the phone to Mom and Dad. I'm all for calling in a dangerous situation, but if something goes mildly awry or doesn't work out as planned...deal with it.

This weekend I was at a picnic with my cousins and one of their kids - 17 yrs and on a date - kept calling to say what he was doing. At this restaurant with these people, this person just left the restaurant, now they are going bowling, but this other person isn't going, etc., etc. WTF????? I can remember when I was 17 and on a date. Calling home to Mommy? I don't THINK so. And I was a relatively normally behaved kid.

[Robb]

19. The biggest truism I have discovered to parenting

...is that everyone else is doing it wrong. :D

[KittyWampus]

41. I think people overestimate their own parenting skills they way they do with driving.

[Robb]

42. With either exercise

...if most people knew how bad they actually were at it, they'd live in a constant state of terror.

[pipi_k]

87. How true is that...

I've seen some of the very worst parents insisting that they are a "good mom" or a "good dad".


I personally have no illusions about my parenting skills.

I was young and didn't have a lot of skills. I was not a very good parent, even though I tried my best. I've admitted as much to my own kids, who will be 38 and 40 this year. If I could go back in time, there are SO many things I would change, or do over a different way. Even though I'm not responsible for not knowing what I didn't know, I still torture myself by wishing I had known.

sigh...


Anyway, I always think, "Yeah...right..." when people pat themselves on the back for being good drivers or good parents.


PS...I'm not always a safe driver, either.

[Toucano]

9. I had to be home before the street lights went out.

I can't imagine how it must feel now to constantly be tethered by electronic devices and radio waves.

[Bunny]

10. Wel, I wasn't raised in a 'don't ask don't tell' household, and I'm

not raising my kids in one, either. Parents who can blithely let their kid take the car and vanish for nearly 48 hours should probably not have had kids in the first place. :eyes:

[SunnySong]

37. serious question... how are they going to handle college away for a semester..

or even a summer vacation backpacking for two months their senior year of high school... if you can't let them out of your sight for two consecutive days when they are 16?

[seabeyond]

66. by being given responsibility in a secure environment allowing for mistakes easily rectified.

i had a job at 12. two practice a day sport. and school. i had plenty of practice making good, informed decisions with parents available to help me along. by the time i walked out of the house at 17 i pretty much knew how to do it without sinking.

[Pithlet]

74. And yet many seem to manage. n/t

[Occulus]

44. My parents did the opposite.

They went away for the weekend, leaving me the car keys.... and the house keys.

Good times were had by all :D

[LWolf]

11. Those of us who survived it

knew better than to turn our kids loose like that, lol.

In reality, the world changed. It became more crowded, more aggressive, and felt less safe.

I ran loose and free from age 10 through high school. I was the only child of a single working parent, and while ground rules were laid down, and I (usually) stuck to the letter, if not the spirit, of those rules, my mom trusted not just me, but the rest of the world. She shouldn't have.

I didn't. Having grown up with almost no structure at all, I knew to provide some for my sons. I was considered harsh for the time. The bottom line? Until I had a high school diploma on the mantle, my boys were home no later than 9pm during the week and 10pm on weekends. I was a working mom, too, and wasn't going to lose beauty sleep waiting up for them. The "Then don't wait up!! Just go to sleep!!" got them absolutely nowhere, and they learned very quickly that a broken curfew meant unhappy times ahead. We didn't have cell phones. I expected to know where they were, have a phone number, and for them to call me if they were going somewhere else. I didn't often call them, but I did make random calls now and then just so they'd know it was possible.

Of course, one of my son's classmates was murdered, and his body dumped a mile from our house, when he was a freshman in high school. Perhaps my vigilance was warranted.

Still, I didn't push my nose in too closely to what, exactly, they were doing. I made sure that they were well-educated about all the consequences to their possible choices, warned them, and kept a supply of condoms readily available in the bathroom cabinet.

[SunnySong]

12. The world may feel less safe thanks to our 24/7 fear media but the reality

is the world is much safer now than it was in the seventies and eighties,

[zipplewrath]

15. I agree

I probably wouldn't say "much", but it is no worse and really in many ways it has improved.

[LWolf]

18. I grew up in the 60s and 70s, raised my kids in the 90s, and

am watching my grandson grow up in the new century.

I don't know if it's safer now or not. It doesn't feel safer. It feels, as I noted, more crowded, and more aggressive.

Of course, it could be that age brings experience. The older one gets, the more aware of possible threats one becomes.

[TheWraith]

32. It feels less safe because of your brain, not reality.

Literally. The human brain doesn't compare the current incidents of crime with past levels to determine how "safe" the world is. It adds each instance of crime to a growing tab, so no matter what happens it always SEEMS more dangerous, because that's how your brain perceives things.

That's why most people don't know that violent crime has gone down by a third since 1993. Combine this with the magnifying lens that the media focuses on things, and it gets even worse. Do you know how many child abductions there are in the US per year that are NOT committed by parents or family (i.e. custody disputes)? Between 100 and 200. But you can't turn on the news without hearing about a kidnapping, or AMBER alerts, or the lurking threat of "sex offenders."

[LWolf]

36. Good points, too.

The more exposed we are to bad possibilities, the more threatened we feel.

[Toucano]

24. +1 n/t

[LanternWaste]

29. In many ways, yes. In many other ways, no.

In many ways, yes. In many other ways, no.

[SunnySong]

I think statistically it is a slam dunk...

There may be outlier exceptions and of course it depends on your neighborhood and community.

[LanternWaste]

35. is this slam-dunk mere opinion?

You can then provide us with a relevant, valid, comprehensive, peer-reviewed study which supports this "slam-dunk?"

Or is this slam-dunk merely opinion?

[SunnySong]

38. Crime rate is down a third... rape and sexual molestation is much handled much more seriously.

Drunk driving deaths have plummeted... you name it.

[Pithlet]

63. The point of guidance isn't merely to avoid having your child become a victim of crime.

All this discussion of crime rates misses the point. Kids aren't mini-adults. If they were, we could just turn them completely loose and let them have their own jobs and apartments then. What would be the point of parenting them anyway? So cell phones are another modern tool in some parent's arsenal that makes it look a bit more obvious to the outsider. I just had to use a friend's phone, or a pay phone. It just made it a bit less obvious to others I guess. But if plans changed or I was going to be late, you bet I had to call. And I wasn't the only one. I don't think times have changed all that much really. I think it actually instilled some responsibility in me as well. Having to keep track of time and think of others and have consideration. That's not exactly a bad lesson to learn.

[seabeyond]

67. with 30-70% of rapes not reported even fbi say not to take the numbers too seriously

to not even know the unreported rapes by the margin between 30% and 70% says a whole hell of a lot. the thinking person would take this into acount and not make such sweeping absolute statements as yours

[SunnySong]

70. Are you suggesting rape isn't down over the last thirty years...

cause I would love to know that source.

[uncommon]

86. Agreed, although I think as far as crime in general

statistics are much more useful.

When it comes to rape, all bets are off.

[LanternWaste]

82. sources said crimes against children were up...

Specific crimes against children? Child abuse? You can of course cite sources, because when I worked in Child protective Services, sources said crimes against children were up...

So... I guess I named it.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RobinA]

22. Murder of Young People

I live in the Philadelphia area. Recently a 23-year-old girl disappeared and was found murdered. She was in cell phone contact with family several times after she left the party where they were all together and was also on several train station videos prior to her as yet unexplained death. Cell phone, video, just as dead as she would have been in the '70's with neither.

Sometimes I think the cell phone is a false sense of security in these instances. Leave the kid home at a younger age than you normally would, if something happens he/she can call. From the burning house? Go the Camden alone at night, you have a cell phone, you can call if something happens. Excuse me, Mr. Murderer, can you not kill me for a few seconds while I summon help? Don't get me wrong, I was an early adopter when it came to portable phones for safety reasons. However, I do think people, particularly some parents, rely too heavily on them when it comes to safety.

And yeah, there's something to be said for don't ask, don't tell parenting, especially when the kid is older.

[zipplewrath]

13. Different parents

I understand your larger point about the effect of cellphones on parenting styles. I joke that the apron strings are provided by AT&T. I DON'T understand your reference to "don't ask, don't tell" parenting. I never saw that, in any decade. There was the occasional "cool" parent, but quite the opposite, they tended to get told WAY too much.

Parents are keeping way too much OVERT track of their kids. And it's not just keeping track, but it is being involved, immeditately, in decisions and choices that are suppose to be the basis of children learning to make decisions in the first place. A parent I know was curious how her child was going to charge her cell phone at the week long summer camp. Several of us suggested that she leave it home. The mother was aghast. "What if she wants to talk to me?".

I don't particularly object to parents that keep "covert" track of their kids. I know a parent that reads the diaries, follows the blogs and social networks, and generally is very aware of who her kids friends are, and what is going on. But it is all covert. The kids don't really know, and she rarely exposes what she knows, and never HOW she knows. What she often says is that she is frequently pleasantly surprised at what she learns. The kid makes generally good decisions and isn't one of the "mean girls" we see. But I have mentioned to her that the days are coming when she'll know less and less, and she'll have to get more comfortable with that.

[SunnySong]

17. Maybe a better term would be results based parenting...

Keeping your grades up... not getting arrested... no angry fathers at the front door... that kind of thing...

I agree with the foolhardiness of Overt parenting... the funny thing is I meet and work with "adults" in their twenties that have suffered under such regimes and honestly many of them are fairly useless when it comes to acting like an adult an making their own decision.

[zipplewrath]

20. Pump up the volume

Great movie by the by, if one is involved in social services anyway. But the kid says the line: "I thought the deal was I get good grades and you leave me alone".

I strongly suspect that overt parenting is partially responsible for the "35 year old in their mothers basement" phenomenon. Overt parenting results, in the later years, in a strange sort of accommodation between parent and child where the parent falls into a role of un-empowered advisor and the child becomes the inattentive client. Many a counselor (professional, educational, mental, or financial) can describe the phenomenon. It involves the counselor giving advice and then listening to a long set of sentences that start with "Yes, but....".

[RobinA]

25. HRC

Help Rejecting Complainer. "Here I am, here is my problem. Run some solutions by me and I will tell you why they won't work."

[zipplewrath]

31. Fodder for the management theorists.

I point out to folks some time that they are the basis of the management babble. If you identify something as a "problem" and then explain how there are no "solutions", management will redefine the problem as the "customer" or the "product" or something such that it is no longer a "problem" it is the "current work environment".

[LanternWaste]

33. On the other hand...

"many of them are fairly useless when it comes to acting like an adult an making their own decision..."

On the other hand, managing young adults (25% of my job) who were given little direction and even less supervision during their formative and teen years is little better than herding cats.

Although I understand your point, it would appear that for every negative predicated on over-parenting you and others may point out in this thread, I can just as easily point towards a corollary.

What one person may see as over-parenting, another person may just as validly perceive it as conscientious and responsible parenting. Who's to say who's right? No one I personally know has that depth and breadth of wisdom-- and they are the first to admit it.

It's the individual who implies the possession of The Answer to Good Parenting that I'm wary of... I supervise too many of their twenty-year old children.

[AngryAmish]

39. Both my wife and I had results based parents

Both of us knew perfectly well that if our folks knew what we were up to trouble would be ahead. So let both parties live the happy lie and get on with our lives. Good grades = less supervision.

I grew up in the 80s. During the summer I would leave for work around 5:30 and not come home for 12-18 hours. Sometimes I worked, sometimes I goofed off after work. But as long as I stayed out of jail (mostly) and didn't wreck the car, so be it.

[JHB]

54. One of my dad's adages:

"He knew all, though he did not act on all that he knew..."

[zipplewrath]

56. Mother I knew

"Accidentally" read pages of her daughters diary. Scarey stuff. Self loathing, fear, anger, indescribable pain. Asks me "what should I tell her?". Absolutely nothing was my answer. But you can now ask far more strategic questions!

[BuelahWitch]

16. "Helicopter parenting" might be a necessity when the kid is under 18

But if they're over 30 and Mom and/or Dad is still "hovering," extensive therapy is needed...:hide:

[madokie]

21. Hell we didn't have a telephone to keep tabs on me with

We kinda sorta went on the honor system at my home. I trusted them and they in turn trusted me. Same with my step sons when they were young, dumb and full of..... You know what, we still trust each other.

[RobinA]

26. This Was The Way It Was

in my house. They didn't spy on me, I didn't do anything permanently damaging or that would cost them a second mortgage. The few minor messes I got myself into I learned from and cleaned up myself. Everybody emerged unscathed and capable.

[zipplewrath]

57. Maybe

Or maybe they checked on you and you just didn't know it. "covert parenting" I call it. I know several parents that regularly "sweep" through their kids room. They have various cover stories in case the kid walks in (putting away laundry, etc.) but basically they look for things. Even when the find them they don't regularly admit to it, or confiscate it or anything. I've said it more than once, I could improve all parenting in the country if I could get all parents to do just one thing. Pay attention. That alone can do wonders for kids, to know someone is paying attention.

[RobinA]

58. I Seriously Doubt It

"Covert parenting" would have been considered a truly ugly breach of trust in my family. Nobody treated anybody that way. Still don't.

[zipplewrath]

61. I'd be surprised

Virtually everyone does to some extent or another. Curiosity and all that. Standing outside a door and listening to bits of a phone conversation. Looking over a homework assignment left on the kitchen table. Watching you at a pick up point before you know they are there. It's all a matter of degrees to some extent. And alot of information doesn't even have to be sought out. Other parents tell them things, older sibilings mention things, sitters "give reports", etc. They don't always necessarily act upon the information, nor reveal to you their possession of it. The vast majority of it soon forgotten.

[seabeyond]

68. yup yup and yup. a clue on how things are going, nothing more. nt

[zipplewrath]

80. sorta the crux of covert parenting

1. Pay attention to everything
2. Careful of exposing what your really know.
3. Don't get caught.
4. Learn to act surprised.... convincingly.

[MilesColtrane]

23. "What ever happened to the don't ask don't tell parenting of the seventies and eighties".

24 hour Headline News and other sources of constant fear

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SunnySong]

28. A weekend free of the kids... what parent doesn't look forward to that,...

And why daughters instead of children... or do you feel women folk need more "protection" lest they have sex and enjoy it.

[dtexdem]

30. How did we ever survive?

Oops, I have to go call my son.

[KittyWampus]

34. WTF? Not caring about what your teen is doing is considered good parenting?

[SunnySong]

40. Like I said up thread result based parenting...

If you can't trust your 16 or 17 year old teen to spend a weekend away from home without constant updates than yes you are setting the poor thing up for probable failure as an adult which is after all a year or two away.


It isn't a matter of caring it is a matter of setting realistic boundaries and letting your child abide by them without acting like you are North Korea or Great Britain..

[X_Digger]

43. Same here.

If I stayed up late watching a movie, I still had to roll my ass out of bed at 6am to go to school. That's how I learned about consequences.

Of course, I was also hunting and / or fishing by myself all weekend by the time I was 13 or so. A tent, a rifle (or fishing rod), a whistle, a first aid kit, a pot to cook in, and some canned food. See ya Sunday!

[Dappleganger]

45. Until they are 18 it IS my business...

I refuse to apologize for knowing where my kids are at 24/7.

[Pithlet]

48. It's nonsense. There's no need to apologize.I grew up with a curfew and my parents knew where I was.

And I somehow managed to grow up to be an independent self sufficient 38 year old. In fact, as I grew up, I began to realize that the "cool" parents who set no limits and let their kids run wild were usually just the lazy ones who couldn't be bothered and it was evident their poor kids knew it. Most of them had all kinds of problems because of it. Every family and every child is going to be different, and no one way is the right way. The parent who's doing a lot of checking may have a child who needs that kind of guidance and it's ridiculous to label them as a helicopter parent without knowing their circumstances.

[SunnySong]

49. The question isn't whether it is you business. It most certainly is

The question is whether it is wise lest you have a dysfunctional child at college or a 24 year old lump on your couch.


Letting go a weekend at a time makes the transition into adulthood easier for most.

[Pithlet]

50. And your opinion that your way is the only way to raise a self sufficient adult is bunk.

Billlions of adults have managed to be raised with rules and limits set on their freedoms without becoming lumps on their parents' couch.

[Dappleganger]

52. Exactly.

We have a just-graduated 18 yr. old at home (who will be going to trade school while living at home the next two years). We also have a 17. yr. old son, a 14 yr. old daughter and 12 yr. old son. We have also given a home to a then 19 yr old homeless boy who had been raised by wolves apparently and had no limits whatsoever. He chose to leave our situation because he couldn't handle the rules--that was his choice. He had no idea how to handle himself independently.

Our three older kids know how to budget their money using the envelope system, how to plan weekly meals, how to cook, do their own laundry, tackle the lawn and weeds outside, how to clean using healthy ingredients, how to use their ATM card, how to use the city bus, etc. They are not perfect by any means but are kind, thoughtful and question authority in an appropriate manner.

Love and Limits is where it's at...I've bet my entire parenting life on it.

[guitar man]

46. you forgot some

"get a haircut"

"and stop smoking that goddamned weed!"

"you better have a goddamned job by the end of the day!!"

:D

[SunnySong]

47. The High school graduation speech...

You can get a job, join the army or go to college but you can't stay here.

[guitar man]

51. mine was

"your how old, 18? get the hell out of my house!"

:rofl:

[Dappleganger]

53. *snort*

The last one, especially! If they have a job more than likely they will get drug-tested and be required to get that haircut.

[guitar man]

64. My dad was an over the road trucker

It was always "By the time I get back from the west coast you damn well better have....!!" (insert whatever was pissing him off)

:rofl:

[flvegan]

55. My mother didn't even give me those two rules/warnings.

She didn't have to.

[Heidi]

60. I suspect you're an entirely different sort of man

than the OP.

[SunnySong]

75. Well I am a cat person... and I prefer German cars, nt

[Heidi]

59. How many teenagers do you have?

[TwilightGardener]

62. My parents knew where I was going and who I was going with when I was 16.

And I had to be home by midnight. Sorry you had parents that didn't give a flying crap about you.

[SunnySong]

71. My parents knew where I was going (in general) and yes I was able to stay out for the weekend.,

I'm not sure what to say about parents tht don't trust thier seventeen year old to sleepoveer at a house or go skiing or camping...

Kinda frightning.

But different strokes and all that.

[Pithlet]

77. No one said they wouldn't let their kids go skiing or camping.

or stay over at friend's homes. I was allowed to do those things and I'm sure I'll let my kids do those things. They said they wouldn't let their kids just disappear for the weekend.

[SunnySong]

79. Well where else would kids disappear too I was always at someones house or party

or out in a field listening to floyd and drinking beer... or at the beach having a bonfire..

Kids need space and responsabilities... as long as they keep their end of the bargain I see no problem giving them space.

[seabeyond]

65. "dont knock a girl up". i better understand your postings. and result of said parenting.

i am not that impressed

[SunnySong]

72. I don't know seems like solid advice to me...no permanent damage and all that. nt

[southernyankeebelle]

69. Well I am a parent of the 80s and my son had a curfew. I didn't dive

bomb my off just anywhere. Gee what kind of parents did you have that would let you go like that for so long. They should have been arrested for failure to take care of their child.

[SunnySong]

73. Wow arrested... yikes... Better not tell you this but they are both dead

and i figure that the statute of limitations are probably up...


When I was seventeen I canoed the French river in Canada for a month... zero contact with parentals... no phones you see...

Of course today allowing your children out of the house is apparently some sort of abuse.

[Pithlet]

76. Ah, that sounds like a planned trip, though. I'm betting your parents knew where you were.

And had a notion of when you'd return, right? And you were 17, which is rather close to 18. A bit different then just a general laissez faire notion of parenting on a regular basis. When my sons are 17, depending on where their maturity level is, I might consent to such a trip myself, who knows? But I can tell you they aren't going to disappear for weekends at a time during their teenage years without me knowing where they are. Big difference.

[SunnySong]

78. Well I am talking about kids that are driving age here,,, plus 16.

And yes the folks knew in general where I was going but in reality we didn't talk for a month... they knew I would call if I needed something.

As for disappearing for a weekend... well either we were crashing a friends house,,, a party or in the city,,,


We would give them a heads up on occasion but in reality I would leave friday of saturday and spend the weekend with friends,

[LostinVA]

81. Because the DADT approach to parenting then didn't exist

My parents gave us freedom and independence but also boundaries and true guidance. The hallmark of truly wise parents.

They were -- and are -- loving and supportive parents.

[Robb]

84. +1. nt

[Darth_Kitten]

85. Sorry, but giving your irresponsible kid car keys on friday isn't good parenting.

n/t