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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 01:19 PM
Original message
Progress vs. Accommodation--Lakoff On Getting Beyond Disaster Messaging - OpenLeft
Progress vs. accommodation--Lakoff on getting beyond disaster messaging
by: Paul Rosenberg
Sat Jul 10, 2010 at 14:00

<snip>

Earlier today, I wrote a diary ("More ways to slice the 'progressive divide'") about the multifaceted divide in how Obama is perceived by progressives, building on Chris's commentary on a HuffPo diary by Peter Daou back on Tuesday. In it, I wrote,

I want to stress that although President Obama is the focus of this discussion, this is really about something much bigger: it's about how we understand history and politics and the meaning of being progressive. I'll have much more to say about that in other diaries this weekend.


George Lakoff offered one of the best perspectives imaginable for addressing the larger question this week, in his HuffPo essay, "Disaster Messaging". In it, he begins by giving his description of an all-too-familiar dynamic:

Democrats are constantly resorting to disaster messaging. Here's a description the typical situation.

* The Republicans outmessage the Democrats. The Democrats, having no effective response, face disaster: They lose politically, either in electoral support or failure on crucial legislation.

* The Democrats then take polls and do focus groups. The pollsters discover that extremist Republicans control the most common ("mainstream") way of thinking and talking about the given issue.

* The pollsters recommend that Democrats move to the right: adopt conservative Republican language and a less extreme version of conservative policy, along with weakened versions of some Democratic ideas.

* The Democrats believe that, if they follow this advice, they can gain enough independent and Republican support to pass legislation that, at least, will be some improvement on the extreme Republican position.

* Otherwise, the pollsters warn, Democrats will lose popular support -- and elections -- to the Republicans, because "mainstream" thought and language resides with the Republicans.

* Believing the pollsters, the Democrats change their policy and their messaging, and move to the right.

* The Republicans demand even more and refuse to support the Democrats.



We have seen this on issues like health care, immigration, global warming, finance reform, and so on. We are seeing it again on the Death Gusher in the Gulf. It happens even with a Democratic president and a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress.

Why? Is there anything the Democrats can do about it? First, it has to be understood. It doesn't just happen.


My answer to the above is 40 years of unanswered conservative hegemonic warfare. Lakoff's answer is more narrowly focused, but entirely consistent: conservatives understand (whether consciously or not) that they're playing for the long haul, that every battle of ideas is inter-related, and that compromising validates the other side, so it should generally be avoided at all costs. He puts this much more precisely in terms of his area of expertise, and it's well worth reading through to get more grounded in the specifics, which he presents in a series of brief sections:

<snip>

Much much more: http://www.openleft.com/diary/19399/progress-vs-accommodationlakoff-on-getting-beyond-disaster-messaging

Lakoff's piece: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/disaster-messaging_b_639040.html

:shrug:
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Notice that he doesn't advocate the constant obnoxious hyperbole of Democrat-bashing as a strategy.
This is probably because that strategy is just another form of disaster messaging. "Oh no! We've elected just another form of Republicans!" "If you don't listen to us we'll fuck up everything!" It's the kind of thing you do when you know that your opinion isn't widely held but still want to exert an inordinate amount of influence without having to do the work of going out and getting consensus.

My solution, and it looks like Lakoff's solution as well: go out and get consensus. If you don't do this, you won't have a foundation solid enough to withstand even the kind of juvenile attacks that the Republicans will use against you in the next election cycle.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. This bears repeating:
Now suitable for a bumper sticker or a desk motto!

My solution ... go out and get consensus.
(LoZoccolo)

:thumbsup:

--d!
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Consensus With Fellow Dems, Or With Republicans ???
"Why Conservatives Consistently Win Messaging Battles", where he writes:

In the US, conservatives have set up an elaborate messaging system. It starts with an understanding of long-term framing and message experts who know how to use existing their long-term frame systems. Then there are think tanks, with experts who understand the high-level frame system and how it applies to the full range of issues. There are training institutes that teach tens of thousands of conservatives a year to think and talk using these framing systems and their language and argument forms. There are regular gatherings to consolidate messaging and policy around a contemporary issue that fits the conservative moral system. There are booking agencies that book conservative spokespeople on tv, talk radio, etc. There are lecture venues and booking agencies for conservative spokespeople. There are conservative media going on 24/7/365.

As a result, conservative language is heard constantly in many parts of the US. Conservative language automatically and unconsciously activates conservative frames and the high-level framing systems they are part of. As the language is heard over and over, the circuitry linking the language to conservative frames becomes stronger. Because the synapses in the neural circuits are stronger, they are easier to activate. As a result, conservative language tends to become the normal, preferred "mainstream" language for discussing current issues.


And...

Lakoff continues:

This messaging system has existed and has been extended and strengthened over many years. Democrats have a few of these elements, but they are relatively ineffective, since they tend to view messaging as short-term and issue-based, rather than long-term and morally based. Democrats tend not to understand how framing works, and often confuse framing (which is deep, long-term, systematic, morality-based, and conceptual) with messaging (which is shallow, short-term, ad hoc, policy-based, and linguistic).

This situation puts Democrats at a messaging disadvantage relative to conservatives, which leads to conservative victories. Hence the regular need for disaster messaging.


There are various reasons why Democrats have failed to develop a counter to conservative hegemonic warfare. Here Lakoff raises one of the deepest reasons, which bears a little further scrutiny: Democrats, under the sway of a pre-scientific Enlightenment model of reason, haven't a clue about how framing works, because they see it as a subversion of their ideal notion of disembodied reason. This underlies the Versailles delusion of objectivity and expert opinion on the one hand, but also dogmatic "left" attacks as well, such as Booman's tirades that lead me to leave Booman Tribune.

The idea of reason as a transcendent, disembodied process capable of arriving at absolute truth is deeply intoxicating, particularly when one is surrounded by oceans of irrationalist madness. But that idea simply fails the test of scientific inspection. One of the earliest attacks on it came from William James, arguing in the aftermath of Darwin that so-called "analytical truths" beloved by idealist philosophers were actually empirical in origin. Specifically, he he called them products of "backdoor empiricism", since they come not from the direct perception of empirical facts, but rather from how the empirical facts of our evolutionary past shaped our nervous system, and thus the very architecture of how we think. This is the origin of the scientific theory of embodied reason, whose implication Lakoff explored with co-author Mark Johnson in Philosophy In The Flesh: The Embodied Mind and Its Challenge to Western Thought.

At another level of explanation, liberalism and conservatism come out of different cultural traditions: liberalism out of bourgeois civic culture versus conservatism out of military and religious culture. The former is much more concerned with practical matters, solving problems, establishing social harmony, etc. The later is much more concerned with imposing its will bolstered by codes immune to empirical criticism. The former, in short, are problem-solvers, the later warriors. It's hardly surprising that problem-solvers should initially fail to understand how fundamentally different warriors are. What's truly baffling is that they still haven't figured it out after all this time: it does not speak well of their problem-solving abilities.

At yet another level of explanation, liberal/Democratic politics is still basically structured by the achievements of the New Deal Party System. The structure of liberal political organizations not only reflects an ideal of Enlightenment rationalist problem-solving, itself a particular expression of bourgeois culture, it also reflects a now-vanished political world in which problems got identified, impacted constituencies got mobilized (but not too much!), experts came up with solutions, and politicians mediated acceptable public policy adjustments to achieve a good fit of solving new problems without altering too much of other policies created to solve earlier problems. The logic of all three levels tended to produce limited-scope, issue-based organizations, top-down organizations focused primarily on passing legislation, enforcing regulation, and litigation where and when legislation and regulation failed.

<snip>

Link: same as OP

:shrug:
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You need to make more people believe in what you believe in...
Edited on Sat Jul-10-10 02:02 PM by LoZoccolo
...if you expect your ideas to be accepted.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. There's plenty of belief in things that are totally counter to what's getting passed
But somehow, we are being told that we MUST do the thing that will destroy all of us.

Why would that be, do you think? IMO, it's because money talks louder than people do.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. That will NEVER happen in this Congress. The repukes will never go along with the Dems...
even if it was something they once supported...as has been shown many, many times.

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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. You're doing it wrong. n/t
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. LISTEN TO GEORGE LAKOFF!!
Edited on Sat Jul-10-10 02:16 PM by BrklynLiberal
LISTEN TO GEORGE LAKOFF!!

As I said in a previous post... wish I had $100 for every time I posted George Lakoff's name during the past couple of years...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8715703#8715973


WHY WON"T ANYONE LISTEN???

The repukes follow Luntz and Norquist around like nursing babies following their Mommy!!!
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Exactly... Republicans Listen To Luntz, Use His Ideas, And Are Very Effective...
Yet most Democrats wouldn't know George Lakoff if they tripped over him.

:shrug:

:hi:
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. IOW, let's be just like the Republicans - the lockstep fools we despise
Foolishness.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Foolishness... Is Not Learning From Our Mistakes
:shrug:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. EXACTLY. Here we go, once again...
Edited on Sat Jul-10-10 03:30 PM by BrklynLiberal
Same song...all over again and again and again..
Isn't the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results?

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. That's A Keeper, LOL !!!
Saved to hard drive!

:loveya:

:hi:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. It sure does tell the story, doesn't it?
:fistbump: :thumbsup:
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's not so much "accommodation" as collaboration between the two parties.
Which is passed off as "practical politics", "reality politics", or triangulation (aka: 3 dimensional chess).
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yeah, But If You Are Correct, It Seems To Only Go In One Direction...
"...conservatives understand (whether consciously or not) that they're playing for the long haul, that every battle of ideas is inter-related, and that compromising validates the other side, so it should generally be avoided at all costs."

:shrug:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. The repukes laugh their asses off at every single attempt at "bipartisanship"
Edited on Sat Jul-10-10 03:32 PM by BrklynLiberal
and "consensus building" that includes trying to get them to vote for ANYTHING that the Dems are in favor of.

The consensus building that should be happening is between this administration and those who voted it into office.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
18. Evening Kick !!!
:kick:
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