Democratic Poll Has Grim News for Party, Obama

[Mimosa]

Source: Investors Business Daily

Democracy Corps, a polling firm run by Democratic operatives http://www.democracycorps.com/strategy/2010/06/national-survey-of-1001-2008-voters>James Carville and Stanley Greenberg, put out its latest findings today, and they should have party leaders reaching for the antacids. The news is almost uniformly bad for Democrats just four months ahead of the next election.

As the authors note in their overview: “With the recovery barely visible and Democrats still behind on the economy, progressives should not seek a mandate based on their performance, but on their advocacy for ordinary people versus Wall Street and on where they want to take the country.”

That’s another way of saying that the only thing that polled worse than the Democrats was Wall Street (30%-42%). The poll put the right track-wrong track numbers for the country at 32%-61%, the worst they have been since President Obama took office.

The poll gave Republicans a 48%-42% advantage in the generic congressional ballot. It found Democrats trailing Republicans on key economic issues including jobs (42%-38%), the overall economy (44%-39%) and the deficit (43%-30%). A majority (50%-43%) also favors tax cuts over “more investment,” i.e., more federal spending.

Read more: http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/1879-democratic-poll-has-grim-news-for-party-obama

---

The poll questions are in a PDF here:

http://www.democracycorps.com/strategy/2010/06/national-survey-of-1001-2008-voters/

They are definitely not push/pull. It's all about the economy. I hope Dem candidates will study the economic issues. What can they do to make jobs happen?

[xchrom]

1. recommend

[saigon68]

2. Its more "Change we can Believe in"

Going down hill

[Lorien]

11. Rather "continuing downhill"

we were expecting a reverse course to business as usual, but that didn't happen.

[Doremus]

3. I believe this poll as much as I believe James Carville is a good Democrat.

Which is to say I don't believe a word it says.

[Warpy]

7. I'm a little skeptical

but we all know what the conservative noise machine and corporate news have been dinning into the heads of people who aren't particularly engaged in finding out what's really going on in the world.

I think there will be some surprises on both sides of the aisle.

[totodeinhere]

23. A lot of people around here refuse to believes polls whose results they don't like.

I am concerned just in case the poll is accurate. I hope it's not but I am going to work hard for Democratic candidates just in case it is.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. This poll has a majority of people with warm and fuzzies for anti-choice groups.

That flies in the face of every single statistical analysis of the past 20 years, which have overwhelming shown a majority of Americans to be Pro-Choice.

I call bullshit.

[Lagomorph]

55. Hmmmm, If I counted correctly...

In my home state of Washington, there are 52 Tea Party Chapters, most of them in the very liberal, western part of the state. Something is happening.

[quiller4]

73. Tea Party Sources on Facebook claim 22 chapters in Washington

state including 7 on the west side of the state.

[Lagomorph]

87. I went to the Tea Party website and counted the ones listed.

Facebook is not a source I rely on. Anybody can say anything, and they do.

I edited the list for dupes and location. That's as far as I went into it.

WEST SIDE - 28
Citizen Action Network (King County)
Covington Tea Party (Kent-Kangly/Covington Place)
Eastside Tea Party (Sammamish )
Everett Tea Party (Everett, WA)
Harbor Tea Party Patriots (Gig Harbor)
Kent WA Tea Party (Kent Station-Shopping Center)
Kitsap Patriots Tea Party (Silverdale, WA)
KITSAP TEA PARTY (KITSAP )
Kitsap We The People (Kitsap & Surrounding)
Liberty Forever (stanwood)
Maple Valley 912 Group (Maple Valley)
MV Tea Party (Mount Vernon Area, WA)
Lewis County Patriots (Randle)
Pierce County Tea Party (Puyallup)
Renton Wa Tea Party (Renton)
WeThePeople Vancouver (Vancouver / SW Washington )
Whidbey Island Tea Party (Whidbey Island )
Revere Press Designers Corps. (Marysville, Washington)
Seattle Sons and Daughters of Liberty (Seattle)
Sno-King 912 Commission (Snohomish & King Counties)
South King County Tea Party (Federal Way)
South Sound 912ers (Olympia/Lacey/Tumwater)
South Sound Tea Party (Olympia)
Tea Party of Cowlitz County (Cowltiz County Washington)
Tea Party Patriots (Anacortes)
The Bellingham Tea Party (Bellingham WA)
The Tacoma 912 Project (Tacoma )
vietnam veteran for tea party patriots (seattle)

EAST SIDE - 15
Gorge Constitutional Tea Party (Gorge)
Walla Walla TeaParty Patriots (Walla Walla )
Yakima 912 Project (Yakima)
Tri-City Tea Partiers (Pasco, Washington)
Official Tea Party of Spokane dba The Tea Party of Spokane (Spokane)
Okanogan County Tea Party Patriots (Okanogan County
Moses Lake Grant County TEA Party Coalition (Moses Lake Washington)
Lewis and Clark Tea Party Patriots (Clarkston Washington)
The Lewis & Clark Tea party Group (Clarkston, Washington/ Lewiston Idaho)
Tri-Cities Freedom Warriors (Pasco - Kennewick - Richland)
Tri-Cities Tea Party (Richland, Kennewick, and Pasco, Washington)
TEA Party Patriots of Yakima Valley (Yakima, WA)
Rattlesnake Ridge Liberty Brigade (Prosser, Wa)
Remember Us We the People (Yakima/Ellensburg)
Emerald Cafe's Meetup (Ellensburg)

[TerribleLarryDingle]

4. Well fuck it,

it's to broken to fix.
Give it back to the GOP and let them smash it to pieces.
At least they don't pretend they are not in league with Satan/Corporate Masters.

[Cal33]

106. They will not only not fix it, theyt'll make it worse. There will

be a higher rate of deaths among the poorest, and the rest of
the people who are not Neocons will become the Neocons' servants.

This is the natural result when the difference between the
haves and the have-nots is too great. It is also one of the
goals of the Neocons.

[ProSense]

5. One poll. Also Investor's Business Daily is a wingnut paper.

ultra wingnut

Can't get past that.

[BootinUp]

9. I took a trial subscription once

I learned that the economic crash of of 2008 was all Bill Clinton's fault.

[jonnyblitz]

16. but the poll itself was done by Democracy Corp which is run

by two DLC DEMS who are essentially the same ideologically as Obama. :shrug:

[ProSense]

24. "That’s another way of saying...the only thing that polled worse than the Democrats was Wall Street"

RW garbage.

[msongs]

6. deficit reduction - there's a campaign strategy that will get unemployed voters voin' nt

[Grinchie]

125. I was thinking 100,000 more trops in Afganistan and Iraq would!

Jobs you can sink your gums into.

The Democrats screwed the pooch by throwing so many people under the bus, and not even the cheerleaders can get out of the hole they are in right now.

The Obama campaign was brilliant in hyping "Change", but then they farted in everyones faces, hunkered down and took orders from the PTB that actually dictate policy, and basically decided to go for broke.

Well, they've succeeded. They ARE broke, and they broke the Democratic party in the process. These Corporation shills play a good game, but they have no accountability, and will destroy anything they can to "Win" even if it means the collapse of Society.

[kirby]

8. How accurate can this be?

What type of poll asks to pick a number from 0 to 100 to express your feelings. That is so subjective from person to person. You will get more extremist views answering at the extremes of 100 or 0. To me this poll more heavily weights the extremes.

[Radical Activist]

More of the same failed, DLC crap Carville has been pushing for 18 years.

Democrats do need to run on their record and they need a record to run on. More slogans to targeted groups in targeted states is a short-term strategy designed for long-term failure, just like Clinton's two terms in office.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radical Activist]

22. Clinton deregulated insurance, mortgage, credit card, banking industries.

Obama reversed Clinton's action and put more regulation on those industries. Those are completely opposite actions.
The difference, despite the compromises in Congress, should be obvious to anyone.

[cstanleytech]

31. Actually

both the democrats and the republicans in both the senate and the house as well share that blame.

[Radical Activist]

34. Blame for what?

You mean the Clinton-era deregulation? Yes, Clinton got some Congressional Democrats to go along with him.

I wish people who accuse Obama of being a pro-corporate triangulator would look back at Clinton to see what it's like when a President really is those things. It's fine to argue that more needs to be done beyond what Obama got through Congress, but at least we're going in the right direction now instead of going backward like we did under Clinton.

[amandabeech]

90. Some of us ARE still angry with Clinton.

Some of us were appalled when Obama picked Summers to head his economic policy team, since Summers was one of two or three guys who were responsible for putting the deregulation together.

They were guys who ignored Brooksley Born just like they seem to be ignoring Elizabeth Warren now.

[Lost4words]

97. yea we're going in the RIGHT direction all right!!!

I have watched this assult for 30 + YEARS!

[DCBob]

10. Not that bad considering the situation..

Any significant improvement in jobs as we near election day will turn these numbers around.

[Lost4words]

96. what improvement in jobs? nt

[Lasher]

12. Shoulda done public works

Insteada bankrolling bankers.

[Radical Activist]

28. He did.

You haven't seen the signs along highways and other projects? Besides that, I have friends working in new clean energy jobs, which was the largest part of the stimulus bill.

[Lasher]

41. Not enough.

Shoulda done more public works insteada bankrolling bankers. Shoulda done more public works insteada tax cuts. Public works gets people right to work, without having to beg some CEO to do what he got the government money for.

That's what happens when being a centrist is the most important thing in the whole world.

[Radical Activist]

13. The polls shows that Congressional Democrats are much less popular than Obama.

That should tell us something. People are angry that Congress isn't passing the agenda they voted for in '08. The US Senate's insistence on stopping, stalling and watering down Obama's agenda is alienating the public. The Republican obstructionist strategy is working.

If Congressional Democrats want to get re-elected then they need to act on the rest of Obama's mandate, especially solving climate change.

[avaistheone1]

45. Obama's catering to the Republicans in the name of bipartisanship

his most effective in watering himself down.

[flyarm]

70. yes and the polls showed people were more angry at congress than Bush..so your point is what?

for 8 years congress was less popular than Bush even when Bush was the most hated..

[slay]

14. I'd like to see the Obama admin do something cause it's the right thing to do

and put politics aside. People are SICK of playing politics at this point. I think if he would say screw the deficit for now, create more government funded jobs (can be funded by huge tax increases on the ultra rich, legalizing marijuana, whatever), and get people back to work. I mean if the Republicans are gonna talk shit anyways, lets give um something to talk about. It's time to DO THE RIGHT THING.

[Dawgs]

99. How is Obama supposed to do any of that without Congress?

:shrug:

[Solomon]

118. By using his magic dicktater wand.

What's wrong with you?

[Skittles]

15. it's the inevitiable result of fucking people over

[geek tragedy]

17. In other words, voters are stupid.

Yeah, they're already back to wanting Republicans in charge.

This country is ungovernable.

[sendero]

39. The voters wanted positive action..

.. and they got bullshit. I've been predicting this since early in the year. It's the economy, stupid, and Obama is failing abysmally. He's got very little time to switch gears, if he even has the sense to do so.

[Dr.Phool]

132. That's what happens when you only have two choices.

[bemildred]

18. Ah, "democratic operatives" hard at work undermining the party again. nt

[avaistheone1]

47. The undermining is done at the DLC level.

We have to deal with their crappy objectives, candidates and outcomes.

[Jane Austin]

19. Investors Business Daily is more right-wing that

the Wall Street Journal.

[Mimosa]

25. Check Carville's and Greenberg's link then

Dems have depended on accurate polling from Greenberg for many years.

The bad economy will make some people stay home in Nov. People who are pissed off will come out to vote.

[ProSense]

26. You had to find a wingnut paper to post it in LBN, the poll is three weeks old. n/t

[Jennicut]

32. While I believe parts of this poll, Greenberg and Carville are

the most underhanded, faux Dems around.
I do like Greenberg's wife, however. Rosa DeLauro has been a good rep for a long time here in CT. Her husband...eh. Interfering in international elections for money is kind of shady. Watch Our Brand Is Crisis sometime.

[Mimosa]

53. Thanks, Jennicut. Where can that be seen? n/t

[Radical Activist]

21. He didn't even poll for energy/climate change.

It's amazing how many pundits are ignorant of how important this is to young voters. Carville is a clueless old dinosaur.

[SoapBox]

27. The Dems need a few things...starting with a SPINE

They need a SPINE.

They need a frack'n PLAN.

And they need to show how crazy the CRAZY is.

Just a few samples of the crazy:

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/07/08/angle-bp-slush-fund/

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/07/08/moore-taxes/

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/07/08/pagels-homosexuality/

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/07/08/lingle-marriage/

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/07/08/laffer-taxes/

DEMS...get a clue! It's really not that difficult to take a stand, with a spine, and for what is the right thing to do!

[Dogmudgeon]

29. Such political savvy ... NOT

Would you rather have an accurate, if unpleasant, look at your situation, and what you have to do to get elected?

... OR ...

Would you rather have someone mouthing sweet, comforting words while they rob you blind -- again?

Anxiety or complacency?

I'd rather have someone light a fire under my ass than blow smoke up it.

Politics is neither easy nor pretty. Most of the time these days, it just plain sucks. But the past few decades have shown us the complete folly of being too cynical to get involved.

I'm not giving up. Besides, Democrats always perform better under long odds.

--d!

[thereismore]

30. People have no memory and are sooo stupid it hurts! Democracy doesn't work with stupid

electorate.

[JamesA1102]

40. It's not that the electorate is stupid...

It's that they are being misinformed by a corporate MSM.

[CLANG]

114. Stupid or Brainwashed - the results are the same...

[dflprincess]

143. Read Rahm's list of Obama's accomplishments and you might

understand why the electorate is fed up.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18FE-70B2-A835FE1E7FA8D74C

In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

Pretty much business (and I do mean business) as usual & to hell with the working and middle classes.

Also discussed here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8715284

[Robb]

33. LOL unrec for giving me the vapors.

Look at this. Look at who was polled, and tell me you think they represent this country.

This is what people said they thought of when disapproving of Obama. Bigger text=more often the answer, smaller less often:


Let me tell you what I see.

In this poll, just as many people disapprove of Obama's handling of the war as disapprove because they THINK HE IS A SOCIALIST.

...Does anyone here honestly want to tell me they think just as many people in this country disapprove of Obama's handling of the war as think he's a freaking SOCIALIST?? :rofl:

Edited to add: two pages later, it says 55% of respondents think "socialist" describes Obama well. :D

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robb]

37. The poll's respondents feel the same way about you, too.

57% of them think Obama is "too liberal."

...Sorry. You should read the thing before hitching your wagon to it, I think.

[Catherina]

86. That's all you got out of that report? Sad but no surprise n/t

[Robb]

94. Whoops, gone.

And I've already forgotten what you said. Like a fart in a windstorm. :D

[judesedit]

36. Repeal the unfunded tax cuts Bush gave to the wealthiest during war time

The rich are getting richer, the poor poorer. And the poor slobs at the bottom don't even realize they paid LESS taxes with Obama than in a decade or more. Are the American people that gullible and stupid to put the same idiots back in power that created ALL of this mess?? Wow! Talk about the dumbing down of America....and the sleaziness of the republican party.

[spanone]

38. carville sleeps with the enemy

[liam_laddie]

42. Mary Matalin? Eeewww! n/t

[CLANG]

119. Oh, the humanity!!!!!!!!!

[Winterblues]

43. If America votes in Republicans it deserves everything it will get.

Stupid is as Stupid does..

[GoCubsGo]

71. Yeah, but the rest of us don't deserve it

They already screwed up my life beyond repair the last time they ran thing. I can't take another hit.

[FrenchieCat]

44. Yeah!

That's what we wanted, right? Cause some of us have sure been working for these results mighty hard.
Now we can all get what we really deserve! :bounce:

[CLANG]

120. Well, then stop it already! SHEESH!

[LoZoccolo]

46. Investors' Business Daily is even more right-wing than the Wall Street Journal.

[Mimosa]

50. IBD put the poll percentages up, nobody else has.

But the poll's questions were sound.

Stanley greenberg and James carville know how to poll.

We may not like the news but it's probably true. When will our candidates maintain democratic stances and see legislation through without caving to lobbyists?

BTW, here's an article which tells how democrats keep blowing it.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/3340

Excerpt:

Here’s a description the typical situation.

• The Republicans outmessage the Democrats. The Democrats, having no effective response, face disaster: They lose politically, either in electoral support or failure on crucial legislation.

• The Democrats then take polls and do focus groups. The pollsters discover that extremist Republicans control the most common ("mainstream") way of thinking and talking about the given issue.

• The pollsters recommend that Democrats move to the right: adopt conservative Republican language and a less extreme version of conservative policy, along with weakened versions of some Democratic ideas.

• The Democrats believe that, if they follow this advice, they can gain enough independent and Republican support to pass legislation that, at least, will be some improvement on the extreme Republican position.

• Otherwise, the pollsters warn, Democrats will lose popular support — and elections — to the Republicans, because "mainstream" thought and language resides with the Republicans.

• Believing the pollsters, the Democrats change their policy and their messaging, and move to the right.

• The Republicans demand even more and refuse to support the Democrats.

We have seen this on issues like health care, immigration, global warming, finance reform, and so on. We are seeing it again on the Death Gusher in the Gulf. It happens even with a Democratic president and a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress.

Why? Is there anything the Democrats can do about it? First, it has to be understood. It doesn’t just happen.

Read more: http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/3340

[Robb]

51. 57% of them think Obama is "too liberal."

Per this poll.

How shall we address this? :eyes:

[Mimosa]

52. Obama's already doing it on social issues

Obama knows most social issues (gay marriage, abortion) usually hit the courts. His nominees will be reliably liberal.

Where Obama let down the middle -even some Republicans- is they wanted single payer or public option health insurance. And congress didn't deliver, Obama didn't push for it from the get go. Everybody saw the corporations got what they wanted.

Obama is possibly blowing the disaster in the Gulf. Even the Republicans would like a strong president in the FDR mold. They might yammer, but they would vote for him.

[ProSense]

54. "Where Obama let down the middle -even some Republicans...they wanted single payer or public option"

That's why 57 percent think he's "too liberal"?

[w4rma]

102. Yes. It is. Because people don't know what the word "liberal" means. (nt)

[dflprincess]

144. That's true.

When the public gets polled on issues not labels, they tend to side with the "liberal" view. And if a majority support a particular solution shouldn't it be called a mainstream view?

[Mimosa]

67. How? Leave it to the pros? n/t

[Demeter]

48. WEE and SMW Told You So

So nobody can say they weren't warned.

[Robb]

49. Who? nt

[Warren DeMontague]

57. Last time Carville was right about anything was...

...um...

....uh...

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bemildred]

59. Is that "Democracy Corpse"? nt

[Rex]

60. Well I was going to read the article, but it mentions James Carville

and I have no faith in anything he says nowadays. If current history has shown anything, it is that Dems will win EVEN bigger when people doom and gloom about upcoming elections.

[lpbk2713]

61. This contradicts what Warren Buffett said.

And when it comes to big money I would take Buffett's view over Carville's any day of the week.


Link: http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2010/7/8/buffett-the-economy-is-coming-back

[Mimosa]

63. Buffett did not address the Nov elections, did he?

Carville and Greenberg's poll related to perceptions.

People's perception of the economy influence how they feel.

[Common Sense Party]

103. Bufett is a L-O-N-G term investor. He thinks in years, if not decades.

The election is in four months. Warren did NOT say the economy will be turned around in 120 days. There is no contradiction.

[quiet.american]

62. Forgive me if I don't cry in my beer, but seeing James Carville's name, I take it w/grain of salt.nt

[libodem]

64. The Republican party is more about hamstringing

the whole country until they get the 'power' back. They are literally holding their breath until they turn blue and pass out rather than cooperate with anything that will help the country. They are a bunch of childish seditious bastards.

The jobs are the same place the cabinet appointments are. Being held up in secret holds and blocks to hobble this President.

So far none of the obvious misdeeds of the past were punished, so they continue unabated like a cancer on the country, to sacrifice the middle class of America, as a concession to the corporations and the glutinous rich.

The Dems have fallen in it with the DLC. I didn't realize Obama and Hillary were being hatched in the same incubator. Being in bed with the corporations is new to us and it is antithetical to our 'brand'.

The Republican's have done it so long, they not only are bank-rolled from the top, they got the energy going at the 'bottom'....so it looks like the little guy is out to 'Win Back America', for the average joe.

You've heard the story of how the Republican's figured out how much money it would take to 'buy' the government from the top down and set to work to do it? Koch brothers are everywhere.

Off the subject, Beck's new rant is Black History Education, and he's rewriting it. He is working up the racists for an 8/28 HATE KKK Fest, Teabagger, march. Hope all 3 show up.

[notesdev]

65. I see many here are still in the denial stage

It's too bad so few seem to get outside the party cheerleading circles to see how real people are feeling.

The most liberal people I know have given up "hope" and aren't very enthused about what might "change" from here, under this Congress and this President.

Everyone to the right of "very liberal" is seething, especially the mushy middle types who voted for Obama and had a lot of hope he'd really change how DC operates.

And I don't know anybody who has a good word to say about Pelosi.

Through most of 2009 it seemed like every third car around here was sporting an Obama/Biden bumper sticker. Now they are so infrequent I take special notice when I see one that hasn't been scraped off.

Hell hath no fury like an electorate scorned.

Been trying to wake people here up to this for quite some time now, but I guess we're going to have to have a devastatingly bad loss this November before people understand just how off the rails this government has gone, and how widely understood this is. This country voted out the bastards in 2006 and 2008 for a reason, but I guess that reason has completely escaped the sequestered upscale elites running the party, and many of those who blindly follow them.

[Robb]

66. 57% of these poll respondents think Obama is "too liberal."

40% think a good word to describe him is "socialist."

...Do you really think 40% of this country thinks Obama is a socialist? Really??

This poll ain't America. :D

[notesdev]

68. It's 2008 voters

Like it or not, a full third of this country considers itself "conservative"... so 40% is well within that range. And if you drill down into the details you see that 30-something percentage as hard opposition over and over again, so yes this poll strikes me as genuine and reasonably accurate.

Now you and I may know that Obama - a full-fledged corporatist - isn't actually very liberal, but the average person doesn't see it that way. They see the health care "reform" and "green" rhetoric and government takeovers of corporations and interpret that as socialist/liberal. While we know that many of his apparent-liberal positions are actually vehicles to help his corporate sponsors, most people don't know that at all.

[Robb]

72. So for Obama to win, you think he has to move to the RIGHT?

:crazy:

[notesdev]

74. If all you see is right and left

then you're contributing to the problem.

Right vs. Left is a construct of the elites who are looting the country, to set the people against one another so that we are powerless to stop them.

As we have seen, under a "left" government, not only are those on the top of the economic food chain still the only ones doing well, the gap between them and the rest of us is accelerating.

What matters is whether or not the government is responsive to the needs of the people - needs that bridge both right and left and everything in between. Things like having a consistent rule of law, representatives who actually represent their constituents, an honest monetary system, foreign and trade policies in line with the nation's interests, protection of fundamental liberties - these things are not right and left, they are essential to the very legitimacy of government. Without them we are little more than barbarians at each others throats for survival.

[defendandprotect]

76. No -- right wing propaganda certainly works ... let's acknowledge that ...

Trying to dismiss the left and the right is to argue for NEWSPEAK!

The publice by 76% and more wanted a single payer government run health care plan --

They want an end to the wars -- the anti-war movement is huge --

IF Americans wanted someone to the right of Obama, they would have voted for the GOP.

While I question the numbers ....

I don't question that the public wants a liberal/progressive president who will

"advocate" for the people - -- NOT WALL STREET.

That's not America nosttaligic for Bush and the GOP!!

[notesdev]

78. Nobody is saying there's nostalgia for Bush

but they are learning to despise Obama on his own demerits.

Nothing left or right about it, the people see that DC is not working for them and they will continue to throw people out of office - as long as we still have that option - until they get people who will represent them and work in their best interests.

People are sick of ideological left and right. They want the country they were promised from birth that they had - the land of the free, a place where everyone has the opportunity to be successful if they work hard. Not a police state and kleptocracy that marches on no matter who is in office.

[defendandprotect]

85. Right wing government never has and never will "work for the poeple" . . .

to suggest that there aren't two sides to this is to confuse yourself --

The middle is where the farce is -- doesn't really exist --

Democracy -- small "d" is a liberal concept -- so is equality for all -- so is Separation of

Church & State -- the right to freedom of conscience, free thought and free will.

If the "people" you know are sick of that, obviously they don't understand it!

This nation was born in right wing violence and bloodletting --

We have a schizophrenic Constitution at best --

It was never the "land of the free" -- it was from the beginning the land of the elite!

If people used their own intelligence they would come to understand that capitalism is a

suicidal concept -- based on exploitation of nature, natural resources, animal-life and

even of other human beings according to various myths of "inferiority."

They might also wonder if we had never had any capitalism and "bus-i-ness" would we still

have an unpolluted environment, our health -- and our planet!!

As we can see from right wing propaganda it does succeed -- and there is no "free press"

these days to challenge it at all -- not even a tickle!

That leaves Americans thinking for themselves -- because not even the Democratic Party is

going to spell it out for them. Let's see how they do with Obama's attacking Social Security

and Medicare -- will they figure out their stake in that?

Will the public be fooled again? We'll see.

Cause I imagine there is no disgusting left or right position re Social Security or

Medicare, either?



:eyes:

[CLANG]

121. +multi-mega-giga

[Mimosa]

83. NO! Obama has to address the populace honestly. Fireside chats, anyone? n/t

[OnyxCollie]

93. Surprise.

Americans don't know shit about politics and must rely on opinion leaders to tell them what they (supposedly) need to know, i.e. Obama's liberal agenda will march this country toward socialism and bring about the end of civilization. If he isn't stopped, YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!1!

From the Phillip Converse article in David E. Apter's Ideology and Discontent:

As one moves from elite sources of belief systems downwards on such an information scale, several
important things occur. First, the contextual grasp of “standard” political belief systems fades out
very rapidly, almost before one has passed beyond the 10% of the American population that in the
1950s had completed standard college training.

The net result as one moves downward is that constraint declines across the universe of idea
elements, and that the range of relevant belief systems becomes narrower and narrower. Instead of
a few wide ranging belief systems that organize large amounts of specific information, one would
expect to find a proliferation of clusters of ideas among which little constraint is felt, even, quite
often, in instances of sheer logical constraint.

Where potential political objects are concerned, this progression tends to be from abstract,
“ideological” principles to the more obviously recognizable social groupings or charismatic leaders
and finally to such objects of immediate experience as family, job, and immediate associates.

The circumstances under which such tremendous amounts of information are conveyed by the single
word are, however, two-fold. first the actor must bring a good deal of meaning to the term, which is
to say that he must understand the constraints surrounding it. the more impoverished his
understanding of the term, the less information it conveys. in the limiting case- if he does not know
at all what the term means- it conveys no information at all. Second, the system of beliefs and actors
referred to must in fact be relatively constrained. To the degree that constraint is lacking,
uncertainty is less reduced by the label, and less information is conveyed.

[BootinUp]

81. Yours is an extreme, almost nutty pov.

Heres a more accurate picture:

Under Obama a healthcare overhaul is achieved, something that couldn't be done by many previous administrations. According to the CBO analysis a significant improvement in long term budget deficits will be realized from the HC bill. The severe economic downturn is showing signs of turning around, Obama has made some progress on the foreign policy front, Israeli/Palestinian negotiations are occuring, sanctions against Iran achieved. He has pushed through some green energy initiatives via the stimulus, 95% of Americans got tax cuts, I am sure I am leaving stuff out. The Hole will be plugged eventually. Once Obama and the Dems are fully into campaign mode, they will have plenty of good things to talk about while the repukes get called out on their lies and extreme positions.

Pelosi has already been credited with playing a major role in the HC Bill, the only people who don't have anything good to say about her are those that didn't vote for Obama in the first place. Obama ran on and won on HC reform as you surely recall.

The final results in November will be dependent on the economy, if it takes a turn South, then yes it will be ugly. Otherwise, we will be in good shape.

While you suggest others should "get out more" or however you put it, maybe you should consider the same.

[notesdev]

91. Nutty and extreme?

You're in fantasy land.

Obama has zero credibility on the budget deficit, most of the country hates the farce that passed as health care reform, very few people care about green anything, and Obama's performance on the Gulf oil gusher has been abysmal.

If poll after poll showing a downward trajectory for all Democrats and an increasingly ugly atmosphere for those aligned with Obama isn't enough to convince you, you're in for one hell of a wake-up call come November. You sound almost exactly like the Bushies did in 2006, right before a massive off-year election wipeout.

[Greyhound]

69. The economy is just wonderful for their constituents.

Money pouring in and real assets can be had for pennies on the dollar. The parasites are limited only in how fast they can scoop it up.
:kick: & R

[defendandprotect]

75. Americans who voted for Obama expected "advocacy for ordinary people" . . . NOT Wall Street--!!

but on their advocacy for ordinary people versus Wall Street and on where they want to take the country.”

Had Obama actually pushed for the single payer government plan that 76% of Americans wanted,

he'd be reelected --

The Stimulus was a move in the right direction -- but insufficient --

And that 15 million or so unemployed are part of families -- connected to many tens of millions

of other Americans -- all of whom understand something is really rotten in America!


Needless to say . . . the wars are still rotting our Kharma as well -- Dems have been

refinancing them since '06 election --

We are STILL now the America of the HOMELESS, America home of IMPOVERISHED CHILDREN --

We are also a planet with Global Warming which is a threat to us all -- delivered to us

by corporations and their exploitation of all of nature -- and humans!

Capitalism is a suicidal concept -- and they will take all of us with them.


PS: Looks like Obama's chess game -- and his "bipartisanship" are producing a win for the GOP!!!

[leeroysphitz]

77. We told you middle of the road, rah rah types that this would happen.

Enjoy your repubican majorities.

[Robb]

79. I guess I missed where anyone on DU said *this* would happen.

Bad polls, yes. Heard a lot of that.

...But I didn't see anyone saying Obama needed to work to the RIGHT to get more votes, which is what this poll says. Quite the opposite.

Your "I told you so" rings especially hollow, since you didn't. :hi:

[Octafish]

80. If we had honest news media, DEMs would be up 99 to 1.

The thing is, people listen to Corporate McPravda pound on the Democrats day in and day out. Everything is Obama's fault.

The reason media lis is that truth is on our side: The Democrats should hammer the GOP on all the crap they've pulled -- from starting two illegal, immoral and unnecessary wars to illegal spying on Americans to torture of children to election stealing software to deficits that help the people who own Wall Street and all the rest.

But, no.

[MadBadger]

82. BTW, the Poll is Over two weeks old. Later polls in the field show a different story

[Mimosa]

84. Keep dreaming.

My best bud said -early on- that the people who are closest to Obama will bring him down. Online, I wonder if the people who are most passionate are blind.

[Grinchie]

130. Either that, or on Antidepressants

Obama wrapped himself in a cabal of DLC Cronies.. And then proceeded to follow their every instruction.

At this point, they are handing him the Fork, because he's a lame duck, either by being gullible, too trusting, or stupid.

Incredibly blatant mess of Corporate good old boys still at the helm. Only now, it's much more disturbing. When was the last time we saw video of the ongoing carnage in Iraq? Yes, people are still being killed by the hundreds per week, yet we can't seem to see pictures of it.

I guess because we're in "Drawdown", read "Re-Mobilization" to Afganistan, while at the same time harrassing Iran, while we kiss Israels ass.

Don't look now, but we have a carrier group heading into the Straits of Hormuz. Winter is coming.. Keep an eye out for the October Surprise that will scare the crap out of Americans, just in time for the elections....

[struggle4progress]

88. The hysterical noise is tiresome: the country has been split for years.

Say 10% really jusat don't give a shit, and the remaining 90% are about 30% each in the categories: left/dem, center/indy, right/repub

The center/indys waffle; so roughly one expects about 45% for left/dem and about 45% for right/repub

The whole game is to swing center/indys without losing left/dems

Obama's taken some hits with center/indys recently

[DatManFromNawlins]

89. If I had to guess...

... most of the deniers here either live in liberal enclaves, or they have filled so much of their time reading leftist sites and watching leftist media that they aren't really in touch with the average American mindset regarding these things. While the economy is a mix of issues, mostly ones that Obama has inherited, the reality of the matter is that Democrats have held Congress since 2006 and have had a monopoly of power in the White House and Congress since early 2009. It doesn't help matters when the White House puts spin on things like job reports. If things aren't going the way people want, then they're going to want to shake things up, and that means kicking some Democratic incumbents out of office. It's just the way the world works.

[CLANG]

122. You'd have a point if not for the inconvenience of Dumbya and the Republican Filibuster.

[Forkboy]

92. Best thing about this poll is the reactions here.

A tad predictable (to say the least), but funny to me anyways. Let's face it, those touting this poll would be trashing it if the results were different. And the ones trashing it now would be telling us how good a poll it is. Any poll that doesn't match our already held thoughts is clearly not worth the paper it was printed on.

DU is consistent, if nothing else.

[Robb]

95. Did you read it?

Not the article about the poll, but the poll itself. I don't doubt the poll is accurate, but the respondents are clearly a bunch of unrepresentative nuts.

Unless you think half the country, like half the respondents, really thinks "socialist" is a good word to describe Obama. :D

[Forkboy]

109. No, I didn't read it at all. I find polls useless, and more a tool for pressure than anything else.

Everyone wants to be on the winning side, and polls play right into that subconscious desire. "Come on, be one of the popular kids!". Plus, half of them (50% in polling) are push polls, or fudged, or both. And almost all have an agenda, often commissioned by the company/person/group that amazingly wins the poll! Who would have guessed?

Unless you think half the country, like half the respondents, really thinks "socialist" is a good word to describe Obama.

I wish it did describe him. ;)

[KonaKane]

116. So in other words you are lacking half the information to make a valid judgement.

Got it.

[Forkboy]

123. LOL...oy vey.

DU, and people in general, tend to like the polls they agree with and dislike those they don't. People take sides along these lines in all political parties. In general, for instance, a positive poll about Obama will be well received by those that like him, and disliked by those that don't like him. Switch it around and post a negative poll about Obama and those who like him won't like the poll, and those that dislike him will suddenly like polls again. It's been going on for as long as there's been polls. I know you like to argue, but damn.

And please, I don't need to be scolded about lacking information by someone who couldn't read a thread properly the other day. I'm not sure I should trust your ability to make judgments.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to let you carry on while I go enjoy a movie.

[KonaKane]

127. Like or hate the poll, you didn't bother to give it a look.

That's the point. Once again you go off half cocked with half the information you need, and then launch an opinion. Not a great way to evaluate your world, I think.

[Robb]

134. If Forkboy wants to distrust polls as a matter of policy, I'm all for it.

It's quite sensible.

[Forkboy]

138. because the contents of the poll was entirely irrelevant to my point.

I wasn't commenting on the poll at all, just people's reactions to them. It's pretty basic stuff, and if try to stop arguing for the sake of arguing even you have a chance of seeing it. Then maybe you can debate the point I'm making and not the one you're fabricating in your head that misses the point by approximately 3,201 miles.


Once again you go off half cocked with half the information you need, and then launch an opinion.

Not, that would be you, both here and yesterday in another thread.

Not a great way to evaluate your world, I think.

What you think of me can't be my problem. :crazy:

[SOS]

98. The authors note

"progressives should not seek a mandate"

A "progressive mandate" in the US Senate?
Is this a joke?

[WI_DEM]

100. I wonder why they released a poll which is at least 3-weeks old now?

It's already out of date.

[w4rma]

101. Looks about right to me. The DLCers in charge dumped Democratic activists and grassroots in favor of

Wall Street money. But Wall Street isn't ever going to *say* anything good about a Democrat when a Republican will siphon more money to Wall Street, every time.

[ProSense]

104. The poll claims that 55 percent believe that President Obama is

socialist.

[Generic Other]

105. If we lose, we will all be unified again!

But I know which Democrats I will blame. And it aint the progressive left!

[bvar22]

107. Certainly hit THIS nail on the head:

"...should not seek a mandate based on their performance,"
The old "Its ALL Joe Lieberman's fault",
and
"The Republicans have a 41 seat Majority in the Senate"
isn't going to play well in November.


but how in the World will Democrats be able do this:
...(Democrats should seek a mandate based on) "their advocacy for ordinary people versus Wall Street"?
.
.
.
Where was this advocacy for ordinary people? :shrug:

It took the Democratic Congress less than a week to give a $Trillion Dollars to Wall Street based on nothing more than an extortion Note from Paulson,
but they couldn't manage an Unemployment extension for "Ordinary People."

"When given the choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time." ---Harry Truman

QED Massachusetts

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans."
---Paul Wellstone


"by their works you will know them."

[DefenseLawyer]

108. Here's a crazy thought, and believe me, I'm just spitballin here

but maybe something called "Investor's Business Daily" has an agenda that might including helping the Republican Party.

[blondeatlast]

113. Yanno, I perused a left-behind copy once and I do believe you may be on to something.

[Enthusiast]

135. I think you have it.

We shouldn't rely on a poll conducted by a RW rag.

[CLANG]

110. Just further proves that most people have NO CLUE!!

about what the pukes have done in the last 30 years, vs. what the Dem's have done (even with a conservative (Clinton) in the White House).

The pukes destroyed the economy and ballooned the deficit exponentially, yet they get 44-39 and 43-30?? Also 50% of the people can't do basic math if they think cutting taxes is going to make anything better (unless all they care about is their own wallet). What a bunch of DIMWITS!! There truly is no hope.
:cry:

[The Wizard]

111. Winning strategy

Prosecute the Bush cartel, and summary executions of Rove and Cheney for treason.

[EnviroBat]

112. It's starting to smell to me like many of these polls are suddenly

appearing out of nowhere. This will make a stolen election look less suspicious come November.

[markpkessinger]

115. Maybe if Democrats started being unapologetically Democratic...

I see part of the problem as starting with President Obama and his staff, who have too readily given in to conservative demands for deficit reduction. After having argued passionately for a too-small stimulus, the President then turned around and started talking about "Deficit Reduction." Mind you, I am sure he understands that now is not the time to start trying to address the deficit, but he and/or his staff seem to think they have to accommodate conservatives on this at least to a degree. The problem is that conceding ANYTHING to conservatives in the current climate merely plays into their hands by reinforcing in the public perception the legitimacy of conservative demands.

There is a profound MORAL argument here that the Democrats need to make, but of which they seem to be very afraid.

[on point]

117. Inevitable Results of a Republican Lite Strategy

When the 'Change we can believe in' was dropped in favor of republican lite, there was no clear distinction between the parties. The passion for change was squandered and even killed by the DLC. Now it is back to marketing two brands of soap, neither of which will do the job that needs doing. So who cares??

The dem Establishment has totally missed what was being said for a long time - FIGHT FOR REAL CHANGE FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON!

Instead they pandered to the republicans and the rest of the corp establishment and now no one really wants the product.

Why are you surprised???

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

124. mandated health insuance with no public option

it's going to kill the dems whether people here accept it or not.

[KonaKane]

129. Millions of Americans now able to have health coverage, where they didnt before.

You forget that part. It wasnt perfect, but its a damn sight better than it was. Sometimes we have to measure our successes in increments.

[Steely_Dan]

126. Obama Lost Control Of The Message

....he lost it within hours of being sworn in. He who controls the message, controls the electorate.

Look how the Administration is letting the right get away with calling our President every name in the book with little or no response. Even Limbaugh had the balls to say that President Obama is purposely taking the country to ruin as a way of getting back for slavery. How does ANYONE allow that kind of insane comment without some sort of counter response.

The nation was waiting for change after 8 years of Bush and his crime family. The moment that Obama refused to investigate the previous administration, the writing was on the wall.

And those that say, well, he has to deal with the rest of the Dems on the Hill...

It's called 'LEADERSHIP."

-P

[RandomThoughts]

131. Is the message what is said or how loud it is said.

What happens is media narratives spin anything into something good or bad depending on an agenda.

So you can make a logical arguement, and they find some rediculous way to spin it into something else.

The point is, until news is actual people that are running for elections speaking for themselves in context, and with balanced fact checking, it is all just hype.

I really don't think many people pay much attention to the news, they figured that out awhile ago, the problem is the more subtle manipulations, and lack of justice and even stolen elections.

Until those things are fixed, and I believe they will be, more signifigant measures have to be taken.


People wanted a public option, people want Wall Street reigned in. So simply, if those things don't happen who are the representatives representing? It could be argued that people can't rule themselves, that is the arguement for totalitarianism, and is much of the arguement used by some groups. I would say, if people can not find a way to educate populations honestly, then they can't rule themselves either. And that is fun.

[Enthusiast]

136. I like what you said. nt

[bobbolink]

128. Yet, when we have been saying this, we are vilified.

"progressives should not seek a mandate based on their performance, but on their advocacy for ordinary people versus Wall Street and on where they want to take the country.”

Some of us have been saying this for a very long time... both ordinary DU posters, and higher profile people like Thom Hartmann.

And what have we gotten in return?

That what we have to say is "retarded".

So, good luck, chumps. You've brought it on yourself with your own arrogance.

At the expense of the good of the nation.

SHAME!

[meow mix]

133. good work sensible centrists, youve fucked everything

got everything you and the repubs wanted hope your happy with the upcoming losses

[B Calm]

137. When it comes down who was responsible for this mess, people have a short memory. . .

[Arkana]

139. This poll encourages a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It prophesies doom and gloom, Democrats get discouraged and figure "what's the point?" and the sky really DOES fall.

[saigon68]

140. Well thisd thread got "shuffled off again"

[on point]

142. The Bigger the Denial, the bigger the loss - WAKE_UP MODERATORS!!!!

Again the moderators at DU are putting their heads in the sand. If they just keep saying 'can't hear you can't hear you" to themselves they hope the message will go away. It won't. But their surprise when they lose because they weren't listening will be great.

THE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU SOMETHING! START LISTENING

OR START

GETTING READY FOR DISASTROUS POLL RESULTS.


PEOPLE ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE STATUS QUO.

We share that with the Tea Partiers, they just don't know why, while we do.

[no_more_yesterdays]

141. Help remove Darrell Issa

Good evening,

We mounting a campaign to elect Howard Katz for the 49th Congressional seat and replace Darrell Issa.

I got personally motivated to volunteer as Finance Director after I could no longer just sit on my butt and seethe in anger at what I'm seeing.

Howard's website is <http://www.hkatzforcongress.com/>

As you can probably tell, I'm not that experienced.

But I do know I'm extremely passionate about making the change to help get things done.

The guy's being a real jerk.

Any help, suggestions, donations, volunteering,.... anything at all, please help us take Issa out of that role.

On behalf of Howard and the 49th District, thanks in advance.

Scott Thompson
<http://www.hkatzforcongress.com/>