Based on grantcart's thread, what do you consider yourself?

[supernova]

Poll question: Based on grantcart's thread, what do you consider yourself?

In his thread, grantcart noted three big factions here at DU. Differing worldviews and priorities among the groups in his estimation cause the most rancor at DU. I thought it might be illuminating for us to see porportionally how big these factions are.

If you wish to comment about your POV, keep it to "I" statements without blaming the other two groups. I don't want the thread locked.

I will comment for myself further down thread.

Here are the categories again for expediency:

Solidarity Democrats

Even if they agree with the Senators point of view the Senator should make his views known and vote with the caucus. He should not give the Republicans the vote they need to sustain a veto. When liberal Senators from liberal states vote against the caucus they undermine the arguments for caucus discipline that we want to use against Blue Dog Senators to keep them in line voting for progressive issues. Blue Dog's will say "if liberal Democrats from liberal states can vote against the caucus then certainly I as a moderate from a conservative state should be able to.

Solidarity Democrats bottom line: Make your point, scream like hell but vote with the caucus. If Sanders and Franken and the others can do it so can you.


Principle Democrats

Senator Feingold is helping the progressive wing. He doesn't vote against every bill but if a few big pieces go down then the caucus will start listening more to the progressives and we will get better legislation. Will the Blue Dog's lose? Maybe but if we start showing the people that we can deliver real change that will have a bigger impact on people's life we will be able to effect a larger mobilization of the people.

Principle Democrats bottom line: Senator Feingold should bring some bills down. It will wake up the administration and the Senate and House Leadership that our interests have to have a higher priority. Obviously he could go too far but so far the Senator has gone along with alto of big legislation including health care. Bringing down this watered down Financial Reform bill is a good example of waking people up.


Radical Alternative Democrats

Senator Feingold is on the right track but he needs to go further. He shouldn't have voted for the HCR. Until people wake up and see how structural the problem is no real change is going to take place.

Radical Alternative Bottom line: The other "progressive Senators" should listen to their own speeches and join Feingold. Until this country makes a major move against capitalism as it is now defined, corporations as they now exist and a system that sucks wealth to the top and keeps the bottom 20% of the country in a state of near slavery and the middle 50% in a state of real usury it is all for show.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8678383&mesg_id=8678383

[Swamp Rat]

1. None of the above

[supernova]

3. Interesting. Care to elaborate?

[mmonk]

13. Love that art work of Palin.

You're always the talented one.

[Cleita]

51. Me too.

I am none of those. I am an Old Democrat of what was once the party of the underclasses and the working class. None of those categories fit where I am.

[The Magistrate]

2. Solidarity, Ma'am

The difference between a slap and a blow from a fist....

[supernova]

4. Thank you, Sir

Yes, it is that.

[Lilith Velkor]

5. I reject grantcart's framing

I find it poor form to use a term historically associated with the labor movement to describe Senators voting to fuck labor in the name of sticking with the caucus.

Keep trying different shades of lipstick on that pig, though.

[supernova]

6. What framing would you use instead?

I'm not trying to call anyone out, I genuinely want to know.

[Lilith Velkor]

7. First off, I'd say most people here are Principle Democrats

At least, the American ones are.

The faction formerly known as "pragmatic," now trying to rebrand themselves as "Solidarity," (:rofl:) I would call "partisan." I think that's accurate without being abusive, but please let me know if that's not the case.

As for "Radical Alternative," what the fuck does that even mean? "Radical Leftist" would be accurate. Or "socialist." That's what I call myself. There's nothing wrong with being either of those things, nor is there anything wrong with being a partisan, or moderate, as long as you're not trying to bullshit people, which is what this framing is an attempt to do IMFO.

[Fumesucker]

8. Party First Democrats

Political Power Democrats

Means Justify the Ends Democrats

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robb]

17. Horseshit.

Your argument attempts to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as a paid poster. "No one could possibly really disagree with me, so therefore they're being paid by some evil force!!" :eyes:

"I don't think any groups need to be shut out, except those who turn insult and denigrate people who dare to criticize the administration."

...Fixed that for you.

[tekisui]

18. Read it again. Some of them are sycophants.

And, no it isn't the disagreement I have a problem with. It is the assholes who turn first to kill the messenger and derision.

[Robb]

20. "Kill the messenger?"

...What do you call your suggestion that they're paid posters? :rofl:

[tekisui]

21. I am showing how easy it is to divide and disrupt, which is what grants

post is for.

There are some paid posters on this boards. You can't deny it. They spam GDP. There are at least a couple, but they are obvious. *giggle, giggle*

[Robb]

22. Are you referring to yourself?

Because if I was paying you to spam the board the way you do, I'd want my money back.

[tekisui]

25. Keep it petty.

[Robb]

27. Keep it bizarre.

...Can you at least tell me where I can get one of these paid Internet Shill gigs you're on about? I could use the income, holding up shovels at my age is killing my back. :rofl:

[scheming daemons]

46. I'd say there are some paid posters in each of the three groups... but that most of them

...are disruptors who are actually being paid by conservative groups to "pretend" to attack the President from the left.

[Bobbie Jo]

47. That would actually make more sense....

It would explain a lot, imo...

[Odin2005]

44. I call them the "Fuck policy, winning is all that matters" fake Dems.

[Individualist]

35. +1

[JackRiddler]

39. I'm with you - and rejecting a falsehood does not require you to present an alternative.

[elocs]

9. I've decided I've had enough of being labeled and pigeon-holed. I am simply...a Democrat.

That's enough for me. I'm free to move within that designation as I please.

[mmonk]

10. I'm just me and I have my opinions.

I'll let others try and pigeon hole me.

[stray cat]

11. Practical democrat in touch with reality who doesn't want to legislate every behavior

either. Also, a thank you I will think for myself democrat - rather than walking lock step with DU groups or any other group.

[tekisui]

12. That thread was an arbitrary and false delineation.

Its purpose was to create more division and run off DUers. It was flame bait and petty. I don't accept those terms.

[POAS]

28. OK, then what is your framing? n/t

[tekisui]

34. There are a thousand or so DUers with diverse opinions and

backgrounds. The tolerance of constant personal attacks has lead to entrenchment mentality and a degradation of civil conversation. There are posters who feel any and all criticisms of the Administration shouldn't be made on DU. There are those who don't want to see any praise of the Administration. There are those who are here who offer nothing constructive, only disruption. Mix it all together and you get an environment where lost of people feel like they are being attacked.

It isn't about groups or sides, at least it shouldn't be. When that frame is accepted, those who believe the frame will identify with one of the sides. From there, they will believe that their side could and even should 'win'. When you draw battle lines, you will get battles.

[Greyhound]

33. +01

[IDemo]

15. A principled Democrat

Which is laughingly referred to as a "Radical Alternative Democrat" in that thread.

[depakid]

16. I think grancart's making a demonstrably false trichotomy- so it really makes no sense to weigh in

It would be like- are you a phrenologist, a Freudian or a a follower of Carl Jung?

Speaking of Jung- the Red Book's a beautiful piece of work. Reminds me of Blake's Marriage of Heaven and Hell in some ways.

[rucky]

19. A principled democrat with radical alternative goals achieved by solidarity. n/t

[LWolf]

23. None of the above. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. I'm a Democrat who votes issues, not party or politician.

If that happens to be a Democrat, he/she gets my vote. If not, I look elsewhere or write one in.

[Raineyb]

30. I like the way you think.

:thumbsup:

I prefer it that way too. I see no reason to feed into the delusion that the party is entitled to my vote. I think my vote should be earned. I have no idea what the hell that makes me but I find the framing on which this poll is based to be utter bullshit.

[saltpoint]

26. Not least I consider myself an appreciative reader of

grantcart's posts on this site.

The man lifts a lot of boats, IMO.

I like a room of brand new and veteran Democrats, let's say county organizers on behalf of local and national candidates up and down the ballot.

I like watching them come alive when an incumbent Republican is felt to be vulnerable and the Democratic challenger is known to be engaged, personable, and electable. I like the blue adrenalin that circuits thru the room.

I like the banter that flies around the table at the headquarters over a couple of pizzas and Pepsis.

I would expect that a group like that would have folks across the full spectrum of grantcart's proposed categories, and that many of the individuals involved, new or long-standing, would represent elements of more than one category, and what I like best of all is they' all be very focused on kicking Republican butt.

[Hekate]

48. Nice. I like your room full of Dems, focused on kicking Republican butt. +1

[saltpoint]

49. - - -

:hi:

[Raineyb]

29. None of the above. I don't care for his framing. n/t

[Kind of Blue]

31. Wish there was another category because

I move between the first two depending on the issue.

[WonderGrunion]

32. I'm a Solidarity Democrat. I will vigorously defend ANY Democratic President.

No matter how liberal or conservative. In my worldview, the Democratic Party is the only viable force standing against the darkness the repigs would cast over this nation. That is why I feel it must be defended against all that would cast stones against it. That's why I attack anyone that undermines the success of the party and its' standard bearer, President Obama. Principles alone will never deny the repigs access to power. A strong Democratic Party will.

[Hekate]

50. WonderGrunion, may the moon shine brightly on your scales

Love your name, btw. I never have managed to witness the grunion run, although standing on the sand half the night watching herons visit the shoreline was cool.

Hekate

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

36. I resented Grantcart using the term Radical Alternative Democrat on his thread

and I resent it as well being used by you with this poll.

I am a 58 year old Liberal Democrat, and have been my whole life. My politics haven't changed and now I'm considered part of the far left. Or in your words "radical alternative democrats". Stop trying to change the paradigm.

I will vote for what I believe to be the best for the people of our nation.

[ThomThom]

37. it depends

every piece of legislation is different and a decision should be made on a case by case basis

[Cha]

38. Thanks for the poll, supernova.. nt

[HughMoran]

40. Far out, solid and right on!

Wassup!

[madokie]

41. I'm a proud yellow dog democrat

simple as that. Not one issue would I consider the :puke: stance on. Never ever, nada, zilch, not no but HELL NO.

[jp11]

42. Meat popsicle.

[Odin2005]

43. I am a Radical Alternative Democrat.

Capitalism is the source of the problem, it is a cancer that must be cut out of society.

[SidDithers]

45. Solidarity Dem...

Sid

[Eyerish]

52. None of the above