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DOE Study: On average, charter schools do no better than public schools

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:47 PM
Original message
DOE Study: On average, charter schools do no better than public schools
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 01:29 PM by madfloridian
The Christian Science Monitor covers the study which is posted at the Department of Education website.

From the Christian Science Monitor yesterday.

Study: On average, charter schools do no better than public schools


Kiichiro Sato/AP Bill Gates shakes hands with Nelson Smith, President and CEO of National Alliance for Public Charter Schools, at National Charter Schools Conference in Chicago Tuesday, the same day that a government study found that charter schools do no better than public schools in student outcomes.

More evidence is in that charter schools at least on average do no better than regular public schools. Middle-school students who were selected by lottery to attend charter schools performed no better than their peers who lost out in the lottery and attended nearby public schools, according to a study funded by the federal government and released Tuesday. This is the first large-scale randomized study to be conducted across multiple states, and it lends some fuel to those who say there is little evidence to back the drive for more charters.

Charters have been a hot topic lately, with a big push from the Obama administration for states to expand the number of charter schools and to replicate those that seem to have the most effect. Charters are publicly funded but largely autonomous, and they are frequently criticized by teachers unions, in particular, since they are not bound by union agreements.

The push to create more charters has been questioned in light of research showing no advantage or even a negative effect for students attending charter schools. Such research includes a much-publicized study a year ago from the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO). Several other, narrower studies including one on New York City charters and a study that came out last week on charter schools operated by the Knowledge Is Power Program (KIPP) have showed positive outcomes for charters.

..."The worry is that President Obama and others are getting seduced by the movement because theyre looking at the results from boutique charters (like KIPP and Aspire) rather than at the wide array of charters that dont outperform regular schools, says Bruce Fuller, an education professor at the University of California at Berkeley.


It's been a very hard thing to fight the movement to turn public schools into charters. The "reformers" have people like Bill Gates on their side, and Walmart and Eli Broad and the Skillman Foundation. They have the money to advertise and make documentaries like The Lottery and The Cartel.

In fact Bill Gates was in attendance at the Sundance Festival in January to debut the film Waiting for Superman, another pro-charter anti-public school documentary.

Education Documentary Featuring Bill Gates Gets First Distribution Deal at Sundance

Bill Gates was at the Sundance Film Festival this weekendnot just to sample some of the fare at the well-known independent film festival, held annually in Park City, Utah, but also to appear at the screening of a documentary about the crisis in public education in which he appears and that scored the first distribution deal at the event.

The worldwide rights for Waiting for Superman, directed by Davis Guggenheim and produced by Participant Media, were sold to Paramount Vantage, a unit of the Viacom (VIA) movie studio. The film premiered Friday at Sundance, with Gates in attendance. The Microsoft (MSFT) co-founder took questions at the screening and made it to several Sundance events, surprising several film types.

I couldnt believe it was him, said one participant at a filmmakers gathering.

Yes, it was him, especially since issues in public education have been a big focus of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, where he has been spending most of his time since leaving day-to-day work at the software giant in 2008.


A former assistant Secretary of Education recently met with administration officials at the WH and tried to get them to slow down this movement toward letting private companies get public money for running public schools with little regulation.

They paid no attention to her. In fact they told her she was wrong.

A) I was recently invited to meet with high-level administration officials in the White House. I told them my concerns. I told them what I have heard from teachers and parents. They told me I was misinformed. I think they should listen more to the grassroots, not just to the think tanks and the media. Over the past few weeks, I have met with many Democratic members of Congress. I have met some really impressive members who understand how destructive the current "reform" movement is. Many agree with me that the emphasis on evaluating teachers will simply produce more teaching to the test, more narrowing the curriculum, more gaming the system. They have heard from their constituents, and they dont like what is going on.

But frankly, these same Congressmen and women tell me that they are probably helpless to stop the Presidents agenda. The Democratic leadership will give the President and Secretary Duncan what they want, and they will have the support of Republicans. That leaves the Democrats in a quandary.


Perhaps someone needs to send a copy of the DOE report to the Secretary of Education.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Arne would totally school you on a basketball court
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. heh heh
Oh, yeh, he could. But I bet I would win in handling kids in a classroom setting. :evilgrin:
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. NO Argument From Me:)
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. That he would.
I'd love to send him to a middle school classroom for a year, and see who schools whom. :D
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. Since Arne doesn't play fair I wouldn't either. His testicles would be up in his nose.
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booley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Ahh but it feels Truthy
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 01:54 PM by booley
Everyone "knows" that when you make a public institution private and get rid of unions (especially the teacher's union) then it works out better.

The truth may be that charter schools aren't' the answer to the problems with our schools, but the TRUTHYNESS proves they do do better.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. lol your picture.
:hi:
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. But think of how much lower property taxes would be if we eliminated education funding all together.
After all, that is the ultimate goal.
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booley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. and use the savings to build more prisons
Which will provide more jobs for the uneducated who haven't gotten arrested yet.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. I think that is their come on for conservatives.
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 07:29 PM by Jakes Progress
They want conservatives to think this will lower their taxes. Their real goal is to privatize the classroom but fund them with federal dollars. They like the model where they just buy off a few congressmen and get their schools and materials bought at astronomical prices without oversight or review - you know like the military-industrial corporations. The end result will be stupider Americans at much higher costs than now. Think medical insurance and banking.
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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. k&R to cancel out an unrec.
after I rec'd it went from 7 to 7.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. There really is....
an organized effort to unrec my posts. I surely do hate to say that, but I had a heads up from another source. I hate to think people do that.

Appreciate the rec.

:hi:
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes there is.
I've noted it for awhile. I always K&R your posts when I see them.

CS Monitor is a decent news source, people need to make note of this all over the media.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I was surprised to learn of it.
But that is because I am naive, I guess.

Yes, it is good source. And thanks.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Remember *immoderate's rule"...
Every solution to the problems of education uncovers a previously unsuspected disability, which requires remedial attention, but seldom gets it, until it becomes the problem with education.

Where the US ranks way down on the list of countries in education, you would think that they* would study the countries that came in at the top -- and do what they do! AFAIK, this never occurred to them.*
* "They" are usually not educators.

--imm
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. This despite the fact they cherry-pick the best students, while....
...leaving all the special needs children to the public schools. So, take money on a one-to-one basis, take kids on a "need less" basis, and still perform no better.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R for more of that "change".
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. kr
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. recommend
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R Stanford U. Meta-analysis concluded same findings
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LuckyTheDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. That's great, but...
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 08:17 PM by LuckyTheDog
That still does not convince me that the Detroit Public Schools are run by anything but brutally incompetent and bizarre top officials. Here is why:

http://www.freep.com/article/20100618/NEWS01/100618036/...

Amid allegations that he fondled himself during a meeting with the schools superintendent, Detroit school board President Otis Mathis today admitted engaging in inappropriate actions but tried to rescind his resignation.


---------------

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/03/det...

Otis Mathis admits he struggles to write coherent sentences, but he serves as president of the Detroit Board of Education.

--------------

http://www.freep.com/article/20100630/NEWS01/100630030/...

Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy announced today that the former president of the Detroit school board, Otis Mathis III, has been charged with misconduct in office, a felony carrying up to five years in prison. Mathis allegedly fondled himself on June 16 in a meeting with the superintendent.

---------------

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20090812/FREE/9081...

Five Detroit Public Schools employees have been charged with embezzlement in an ongoing probe into the "culture of corruption" that took hold in the state's largest district, a prosecutor said Wednesday.

--------------

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/02/two...

A former payroll manager for Detroit Public Schools and a retired DPS employee pleaded guilty in federal court Tuesday to committing fraud while on the district's payroll.

Toni Gilbert and Anton Carter were indicted in May after authorities said Gilbert, who worked in the district's payroll office, issued nearly $400,000 in paychecks to Carter, who was already receiving disability payments from DPS, according to a statement from the FBI.

---------------

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20091208/FREE/9120...

The Detroit Public Schools posted the worst scores on record in the most recent test of students in large central U.S. cities.

The scores came on the Trial Urban District Assessment, a national test developed by the Governing Board, the National Center for Education Statistics of the U.S. Department of Education and the Council of the Great City Schools.

----------------------------
http://detnews.com/article/20100521/SCHOOLS/5210387/Det...


Detroit Public Schools students registered historically low scores again on a national test -- this time in reading -- prompting cries for change from parents, educators and government leaders.

The district's fourth- and eighth-graders trailed 17 other large cities that participated in the National Assessment of Educational Progress Trial Urban District Assessment, administered between January and March 2009.

Among Detroit fourth-graders, 73 percent scored below the "basic" level on the NAEP reading test, meaning they lack the basic skills that are the building blocks of reading.

________________________________________________



I suppose we could close all the charter schools in the city and make the kids into sacrificial lambs till the "powers that be" sort all this out. But I'd rather keep my child in the "evil" school that has helped him raise his reading level from below grade level to two grades above his current his current grade.

Force us to use the public schools in their current shape and we'll have no choice but to leave the city. Sorry.




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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. They have been defunding the public schools everywhere...
I am not sure how schools are to function as resources are taken from them. The money is given to schools like charters that are not regulated and are run privately.

In response to you:

http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.com/
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LuckyTheDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. If you were in my shoes, and had an 8-year-old...
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 09:48 PM by LuckyTheDog
... you'd send that kid to a charter school or move to the suburbs. You'd never choose to subject your child to the incompetent kleptocracy/freak show that is the DPS.

I am not saying there are no good DPS schools. There are a handful. And a lot of good people work hard inside that dysfunctional system. But ... you simply cannot assert that parents have no good reasons to seek out alternatives.

I want the DPS to get better. I am willing to pay higher taxes if that's what it takes. But as long as DPS is royally screwed up, I will look out after my kid by keeping him out of it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. You put a whole big bunch of words in my mouth that I did not say.
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 10:56 PM by madfloridian
You most certainly may send your kid wherever you wish. That is your right. In fact, in Florida if you want to put your kid in a private religious school like the one that fired a teacher for having pre-marital sex....you can do that. That school gets voucher money.

And the corporate tax credit that pays for it will take 31 million in taxes from public schools next year alone.

So instead of fixing the schools, providing more resources to the public schools...they are taking resources away and giving them to private schools.

I defend your right to send your kid wherever, but I defend my right to defend public education.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. Parents who can move to the suburbs for many reasons other than the schools
Let's be honest here. Parents and those who can afford to live elsewhere do so because of crime, economics and availability of services. And those factors along with the declining population cause the schools to suffer. It's completely dishonest to blame the schools when families move out of urban areas.
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LuckyTheDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. You misunderstand
I do not blame the schools (entirely) for families moving out of urban areas. But in our case, being forced into DPS would force us out of the city. We can and do tolerate every other "downside" of living in Detroit (high insurance rates and property taxes, crime, poor city services, etc.) in order to experience what I think is the considerable upside of urban living. And we do so because of our deep love of the city. However, I don't want my idealism about Detroit to actually become a detriment to my child's future.

The charter school we use has done amazing things for my son. It was a really good fit for him. If it went away, I am not sure what we could do but move to the 'burbs.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Bottom line - charters are taking resources that should/would go to traditional public schools
which ensures failure.

As a 3 decade veteran of urban Ed I also refuse to accept the argument of 'but the schools were failing' as a justification for funding charters. Another bottom line - urban schools have NEVER been adequately funded. Not during my tenure. And if you consistently underfund schools as we have done then of course they will fail. If we also continue to fail to address poverty, crime, the absence of parents (both physically and emotionally) then none of our urban schools, not even the charters, will have longterm success.That success requires resources we have yet to see and a commitment and energy level that is not yet evident.
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LuckyTheDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. If only funding was the only problem
In the Detroit Public Schools, we have a situation where folks were ripping the system off to the tune of millions of dollars per year. Plus, we just got rid of a functionally illiterate school board president who had a habit of jerking off during staff meetings.

The way I see it, the DPS many years away from fixing itself. In the meantime, my kid has only one childhood.

However, you are 100% right when you say this: "If we also continue to fail to address poverty, crime, the absence of parents (both physically and emotionally) then none of our urban schools, not even the charters, will have longterm success.That success requires resources we have yet to see and a commitment and energy level that is not yet evident."
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. k & r
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R thanks for posting..I was discussing this with a teacher tonight that is disgusted!! eom
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
37. Teachers are just waking up to what is happening.
At least the ones in our area.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kick & Rec #34 From Me
:) Gates is creepy.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
28. But, charter schools BORROW MORE and keep our friends the bankers happy.
How can we not be better off by more and more borrowing, I ask you.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
29. I'd be willing to bet that the people RUNNING the charter schools are doing fine though
financially..

Kids are kids..no matter the income level. Most kids start out wanting to learn everything,.. I can still remember coming home from the first day of school, unhappy that they did not teach me to read on day one :)

Some will say that "throwing money at school problems" is no fix, but withholding money surely will ruin a school.

Charters are the "new girlfriend"..hot, sexy, & interesting as all get out..

Public schools are your Mom..always there in the background, with your best interests at heart, and if you don't call her for weeks at a time, she will still welcome you with open arms..
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Good points. Trouble is those welcoming arms might not be there soon.
You only defund something just so long without it falling apart.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
34. Classroom paradigm is the problem
Forcing 30+ students to progress at the same pace is the problem. Some students will grasp a topic faster, some will need more time to fully understand it. Yet we lock them together in a structured classroom where info is presented at a pace too slow for the gifted and (possibly) too quickly for the struggling students.

We need to allow students to progress at their own pace, achieve the required milestones as they are able. Lessons should be recorded on video and all tests and exams computerized. Each student can control the lesson, rewind as needed until they feel they understand the subject presented. Classroom size would be increased to 100 or even 150, the 4 or 5 teachers would be available for answering questions and assisting where needed with the lessons.

This would allow students to progress at their own pace, get help when they need it. And computerized testing would end the current practice of passing on the problem students to the next grade level. This would do away with the 12 grades system altogether - it is meaningless anyway as it lumps the gifted with the below average (yet somehow squeaked by).
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Teachers have always individualized learning, but now they teach to the test.
We used to plan lessons around individuals, making accommodations for their needs.

Now it is teaching to a test made by companies who answer to no one and graded the same way.

The curriculum is narrowed and there is no accounting for individual needs if you teach to a single test.

There is no one solution, gimmicks don't work.


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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. exactly my point
Teachers have tried to do their best in a system that is designed from the ground up to be a disservice to half the students trapped within it's rigid structure. It is impossible to plan lessons around individuals at the expense of 29 other students all the time. Compromises must be made, material must be left out due to the rigid time constraints of a 180 day educational year and a 12 year system. Teachers are not the problem.

What if you were free to help students achieve their potential with no time constraints. A student studies a subject until they successfully grasp it. Lessons and tests are delivered by computer only so there can be no "teaching to the test" that you lament. The teachers are free to assist in understanding the material, ask probing questions, guide a student toward enlightenment.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
38. I would suggest people go and read the article from the Christian Science Monitor
as this OP was quite selective on what information was posted and what was not. I got one impression from the OP and quite another when I read the full article
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I did.
Edited on Thu Jul-01-10 01:30 PM by proud2BlibKansan
The last paragraph is pretty significant:

The worry is that President Obama and others are getting seduced by the movement because theyre looking at the results from boutique charters rather than at the wide array of charters that dont outperform regular schools, says Bruce Fuller, an education professor at the University of California at Berkeley. Professor Fuller remains cautiously optimistic about charters and says they seem to do some things well, such as attracting energetic young teachers. But, he adds, Its irresponsible that President Obama would all 50 states to create more charter schools in light of such sketchy evidence.
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