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Oh yeah is this still a problem we should watch? REALLY?

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SargeUNN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:42 AM
Original message
Oh yeah is this still a problem we should watch? REALLY?
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 10:44 AM by SargeUNN
I have been very distressed for sometime that we don't seem to care too much about the Immigration reforms needed in this country and so the right wing extremist are championing this issue in such a way we are going to pay for it if we don't give our attention to it.

I am from South Mississippi and still have family and friends there, so I really appreciate the interest in the Oil Gusher, but I am equally as bothered by the Immigration issues since seems very little interest in countering the lies from the right are being done. Meanwhile a group of people are being attacked unfairly because we sit on our hands in learning and solving the real problems. As always when this happens others become innocent victims and it snowballs into all of us becoming the victims. Read this article http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/...

Now tell me should we give this attention? Should we start learning the real story on what is going on or just let the lies of Brewer, Pearce, and their kind throughout the country dictate knee jerk reactions like SB1070? I was around for Jim Crow, shouldn't we as Progressives be stirred as much by this injustice as we are the Oil Gusher?
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. If we can't get financial reform through the Senate, how do you think we could get a fair
immigration bill through?
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SargeUNN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. if we don't do something soon on this
we are going to suffer financially. Look at places where such a law as 1070 has gone into effect and see the harm it has done. Here in Arizona just the loss of revenue from the Hispanic community leaving (hispanic citizens of the USA are also leaving)projected to cost the State of Arizona 1 billion 7 million dollars alone. It spreads to other states as is happening and these fools like Brewer, Arpaio, Pearce and FAIR keep owning this issue, then our financial well being will be affected countrywide. When the population doesn't get involved in solving a problem then those like Brewer and Company will get away with such hate filled laws hurting all. Their message will be accepted as truth just like the right proclaiming Obama the big liberal even though he wasn't, but now Liberals are upset because they don't see him as a Liberal when many of our progressive voices were telling he wasn't. Somewhere their message started to be believed and now we wonder why Obama isn't more Liberal. If we let them frame this issue as they are doing then we will suffer financially as well and guess who will do financial reform? These same idiots.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. I presume you were not around for the immigration flame wars...
...a couple of years ago. It got pretty hot around here!

I agree with you about the need to keep immigration reform on the front burner, but general forums like DU's GD tend to get relatively stuck on hot button issues for short periods before they move on to the next. On-going disasters like the Gulf oil spill lengthen their time in the spotlight by offering a constant barrage of changing news, keeping interest intense. But if Congress or the Pres makes significant noises about immigration reform, you can bet the issue will zoom back to front-and-center on DU!
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. Nothing is going to be done about immigration
Illegal immigrants provide cheap labor and bolster the coffers of Social Security. Any laws passed to date at local and state levels only address the individual.

If anyone really wants change things they will have to target those who hire illegals. Don't see that happening in this nation run by corporations.

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SargeUNN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Something is being done, but the wrong thing
Arizona has passed SB1070, other states are considering bills like it, and in some areas such laws have gone into effect, failed and been rewritten or trashed. I know there is a chance 1070 will be overturned by the courts but we are just weeks away from it taking effect here in AZ if something doesn't stop it.

If these people keep owning the issue based on lies and stereotyping without us trying to at least get out the facts of what is really going on, something will be done, the wrong thing like more 1070s.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. You're in Arizona. I thought there were a ton of groups out there opposed to SB1070.
Why not join one?
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SargeUNN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. well to answer you
You obviously don't know much about me from your statement. I am very involved and until we had to shut down due to financial problems, I hosted a radio show that spent time on this issue and had guest on telling the real story. I am involved with several groups and even have talked to the Governor's people as well. Maybe it would be useful in the future if you learned who you are posting something before you stereotype them. Hope that advice helps.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. So very sorry that I didn't know how famous you were. Thought you were asking DU for ideas to
counter the anti-immigration people.
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SargeUNN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Actually if you read you would have noticed
that I am asking folks here to make it a higher priority and work on it. As for famous, was that really neccessary or is it a problem for you that you feel you should be better known? While famous isn't exactly how I would define myself, I would say I have had some exposure because I decided to do what I could to get the story of the Katrina Issues told and work on helping as many as I can. If there is something wrong with that in your view, then I really feel sorry for you.
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Just because I don't know the answer, how are we supposed to know who you are?
The idea here most people have is to be anonymous. I don't go look up poster's description of themselves, maybe I need to do that.
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Monique1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Living in Az
I was a regular listener of Coffee with Sarge show on Saturdays - I agree with him. It might be a good idea to find some of his pod casts on the immigration issue because he has covered this issue throughly.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Here in Ohio, they are worried about Canadians swimming across Lake Erie
Ohio is considering an Arizona type law.

Ho, No, Illegal Canadians.

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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. So what does immigration reform look like? My opinion is that there is no good solution to be found
using our legal system.

We already have laws against illegal immigration. Some want them enforced to the letter of the law meaning deportation of 12 to 20 million people. That isn't going to happen because it isn't doable, costs too much and would break up families.

Some want open boarders. That isn't going to be supported by anti immigration folks and those who believe it drives down wages and takes jobs away from legal citizens.

Some want the boarder sealed. That could be done but not 100% effectively.

Some want amnesty. Most don't.

Please give me a win win solution to this problem that doesn't only provide a short term change as Reagan's was but permanent solution that we all can live with.

I say we need Mexico's intervention. The root of the problem is Mexico's social structure, government policies and economy. If Mexico provided the opportunities that America does the people would not immigrate in such numbers that nothing can be done here.
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SargeUNN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Thanks for asking that
of course I don't have a complete answer but I have interviewed a few people who are knowledgable of the issues. I have interviewed people with 30 years experience, candidates for offices, sitting officials state and national level, as well as groups that work with these people and even the people themselves. Here is what I think would help to solve this.

First, learn the real facts about who "illegal immigrants" and the make up of them. I could break it down more but to put it simply, there are those who obey the law, use no government services, and tries to stay under the radar, others got here legally but due to red tape and such their visas expired through no fault of their own, and there are those who are here for the purpose of creating trouble. If we spend time on the first 2 groups that make up most of them, then we spend more resources going after them and less time and resources getting the real trouble makers.

Then we should work out a system to get those in the shadows not creating trouble a way to become legal and work for citizenship in a reasonable time period without deporting them. This would take away some of the distrust between them and law enforcement in reporting the real trouble makers.

Also we need to learn more about the real problems of this issue so we can offset the right's lies spread by Jan Brewer, Joe Arpaio and their kind. As long as they dominate this and go unchecked we are letting them dictate it.
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Just for the record have have no problem with undocumented immigrants.
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 04:09 PM by county worker
I use to know quite a few when I worked in the city offices of Arvin, CA (the mayor told me 1/2 of the population there were undocumented) as a temporary accountant. I am a fan of diversity. I almost got an accounting job with the Cesar Chavez farm workers headquarters in Keene, but they could not pay me enough to pay my bills. I was a controller for a large labor contractor in the San Joaquin valley. I have been around undocumented immigrants for many years.

They go to work just as we do. They have families, contribute to society, pay taxes, their children born here advance to middle class in a short time. They are ambitious. They won rights for farm workers, they won a living wage in Los Angeles and Santa Monica.

I believe there should be a less porous border, less reason for them to come here and those here should have a path to citizen ship. We should no longer be correct to label them illegal.

They can teach us a lot about protesting (over 1 million came out in Los Angeles a couple of years ago) and organizing. If the working class in this country included those as citizens and those as immigrants, it could be a powerful force for change. Instead of letting Arizona and corporate leaders build wedges between us we need to unite as people who have common goals and ideals.

The middle class will vanish while we fight over immigration.

If we don't get people back to work first there will not be jobs for anyone.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just like the way
we give little attention to the persistent attacks on public education, teachers, unions....
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kicked and recommended!!! This is an issue we should be framing, not the Rethuglicans!!
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 05:59 PM by Major Hogwash
Hellya, we should be watching this issue as close as we can.

Do you still got that radio program?
I used to tune in to your program all the time.

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SargeUNN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. The show ended a couple weeks ago due to lack of funding
We were listener supported. Jeff Farias spent his own money to keep it going but couldn't do it anymore. He tried to run for Justice of the Peace but got only promises from Democrats who pledged support and then ran away so that doomed our network. I am doing a new show called Reflections starting Saturday on WXBH in Louisville Ky. and streamed on http://thedavidlinkshow.com website, but it is a different format where I tell stories that I have experience or in some cases heard. It is a pre-recorded show because honestly I have tired of busting my rear to be a progressive voice and getting lip service but nothing else. I frankly have gotten to the point I am about to give up because the republicans stink, but the Democrats and Progressives are just talkers with little action behind them. I am sorry if I have offended anyone with this statement but I almost lost my life fighting these people and look, they can't even donate enough to keep a $200/month network going. I see little to believe our side really wants progressive. Hope they prove me wrong.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Do you have your tv on, Sarge?
Edited on Thu Jul-01-10 09:45 AM by Major Hogwash
Obama is talking about this right now!

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