Ancient Fossils Show Arctic Now Near Climate Tipping Point

[defendandprotect]

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jun2010/2010-06-29-01.h...


Any reading of this and any look at the political situation here in America --

and increasing pressures of elitist corporatism here and around the world --

suggests a new urgency for confronting the fascism which has created this exploitation

and destruction of nature --

Capitalism is suicidal -- and it's taking us all along with it --

[Clintonista2]

1. Nothing wrong with capitalism

It's deregulation that's killing us.

[Deep13]

2. Really? NOTHING wrong with capitalism? At all? nt

[Clintonista2]

3. Not anything excessively more faulty than any other economic model

[defendandprotect]

27. It's a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" System . . .

intended to move the wealth and natural resources of nations from the many

to the few --

Capitalism is based on exploitation, not only of nature and animal-life --

but of other human beings --

It's a suicidal concept -- as we can see from the pollution and overall destruction

of our planet!

[Oregone]

4. Exactly. And capitalism has NOTHING to do with deregulation

[Clintonista2]

5. Not in the pure sense. But a pure capitalist system is impossible

nor is it desirable. There's nothing wrong with the basic foundation of capitalism -- the private ownership of property. So long as the rights and safety of workers and consumers, as well as the environment, are protected. By the way, am I to assume you're posting from a library computer?

[Oregone]

6. Thats incompatible

That being, the private ownership of the means of production and appropriate, static regulations.

Capitalism is a mechanism that distributes wealth created in production to the few owners, while emphasizing capital over labor. It will always act to create disparity, and in doing so, an elite class who amass wealth and power. As time becomes arbitrarily close to infinity, this elite investor class will have the resources to lobby the government to tear down the wall of regulation in the name of more profits (which are put above safety and security).

Its capitalism's very structure that creates the conditions for deregulation and corporatism.

While you may cry and express nostalgia for paper capitalism, that does nothing for us in the real world who are subjected to the real world effects of capitalism, cycle after bloody cycle.

[Clintonista2]

7. Which is why I specifically pointed out that there's nothing wrong with regulated capitalism

In which the government ensures the rights of workers, consumers, and the environment. Unlike many here, I'm not so narrow minded that I demand a "pure" economic model. I believe social services ought to be provided to the least among us, including a single payer healthcare system. But again, there's nothing wrong with the foundation of capitalism -- the private ownership of property. Most nations consider this a fundamental human right.


I also notice you ignored the question in my last post. Is it because it confirms the fact that you're a hypocrite?

[Oregone]

12. Even on that point, I disagree

Firstly, yes, there is something wrong with a system structured in such a way that it creates the conditions for its own failure. Regulated or not, its a matter of time.

Secondly, I think there is something inherently wrong with disproportionally rewarding capital over labor, and making the right to profit off another man's labor and inheritable right. This situation creates perpetual, infinite ROI for those families who own capital, and perpetual bondage for those who do not (who are not allowed to a portion of the profits generated by their very labor). Though, I understand, its a great deal for the investor class


"I also notice you ignored my question in my last post."

Oh, you mean your irrelevant personal attack? Because it was simply off-topic and pointless. Owning a computer and using it to work has nothing to do with my support of the system of Capitalism. Now, if I owned a computer, employed someone to work on it at a meager wage, and collected all the profits, then yes, I would clearly be practicing capitalism, but thats not the case. My computer belongs to an employee-owned enterprise, which capitalism fears.

[Clintonista2]

14. Not off topic or pointless

If you're going to claim to be anti-capitalist, anti "rewarding capital over labor, and making the right to profit off another man's labor and inheritable right," then owning property produced under such conditions is incredibly hypocritical. You're like those teabaggers on medicare who protest against government spending.

[Oregone]

15. You are grasping at straws with your personal attack

This machine is part of an employee-owned business, in which the employees have all the right to profit generated by their labor (for better or worse). The employees own the means of production here, and there is little else more anti-capitalistic. If you don't understand that, you may be out of your element in this discussion.

[Clintonista2]

16. Tell me, what brand is your "work" PC?

Just for my own personal knowledge. I need to know if you're a mac or a PC

[Oregone]

17. "Let's see how anti-capitalist you really are"

You do understand that by not practicing capitalism in the workplace, thats pretty "anti-capitalist"? In my workplace, labor has merged back with capital here.

Sorry that you cannot understand this. Its somewhat cute, but getting stale.

[Clintonista2]

18. And YOU don't understand that capitalism led to your ability to post on DU. n/t

[Oregone]

21. Well, considering the Butterfly Effect, without it, there may of been no reason to gripe online..

about corrupt politicians and their corrupt, pro-capitalist policies

[Rex]

10. The kind of capitalism we now practice in America is killing us.

And soon the biosphere.

[Clintonista2]

11. I would agree. n/t

[Enthusiast]

35. This is, or should be the point.

Profit at any expense is the problem. The insane GOP is ready to privatize anything and everything right now, no hesitation. Being reasonable we can see where this unrestricted greed would have a few little drawbacks. They have bought into a kind of caricature of Reaganomics so thoroughly that they will not question the consequences for one moment.

Even when faced with environmental catastrophes like the gulf oil gusher they will not consider a safe/clean alternative. Look into the eyes of Michele Backmann, her madness is no different than any other brand of historical zealotry. But we simply can't allow these crazies back into power.

[defendandprotect]

26. True, we need to reregulate capitalism . ..

but what you are looking at now is the pure thing --

it's merely organized crime!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

8. Is the OIL INDUSTRY's drilling there causing this?

tin foil hat in place. They do whatever they can to get at the vast oil reserves offshore Alaska ... might they have drilled into methane pockets up there too? Look at how fast this area has deteriorated and warmed lately....surprisingly fast to scientists .

(typo edit)

[laughingliberal]

9. Rec for visibility. nt

[The2ndWheel]

13. Which mass economic system doesn't destroy nature?

[Subdivisions]

19. Cool! At least I'll be around to see us perish by our own hands. It's

almost like being around to see the dinosaurs meet their just-as-untimely demise. All historic and shit.

[XemaSab]

29. You should join us in E/E

[Subdivisions]

31. I do lurk over there from time to time. Perhaps I should venture over

and join in.

[XemaSab]

32. Consider this your formal invitation

We could use some level heads over there.

[Enthusiast]

34. What is this E/E you speak of?

[XemaSab]

36. The environment/energy forum?

[Ozymanithrax]

20. Capitalism and Facism are not the same thing...

Corporatism and Facism are the same thing.

In fact, real free market capitalism is as dead as the great god Pan. What we practice is a blend of Consumerism and a Corporate Demand Economy.

[Oregone]

22. "Corporatism and Facism are the same thing."

No they aren't

[Ozymanithrax]

23. Well, according to Mussolini they are or were...

and I admit all forms of Facism are not the same.

Spain retained a mild form of facist government until Franco died in 1975. Attributes of facism have erupted elsewhere, even here. Certainly, that binding of Corporatations and government are an attribute of Facism.

[Oregone]

24. Source those quotes then

You may find out they aren't real (or rather, have never been found in the original texts cited, or anywhere else)

The two systems have similarities and differences. Any difference basically ensures they are not the same though.

Ask yourself:

1) What is the primary concern of fascism?

2) What is the primary concern of corporatism?

Those questions have two very contradictory answers

[defendandprotect]

37. What is it that you think those "answers" are . . . .??

[stuntcat]

25. disaster capitalism.

kickety

Certain People will keep on getting richer & richer, no matter WHAT.

[amborin]

28. K&R

[XemaSab]

30. Near?

We're well past that point.

[DCBob]

33. Arctic sea ice extent is now lower than the record worst levels in 2007..