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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:24 AM
Original message
Doctor Treating Pregnant Women With Experimental Drug To Prevent Lesbianism
Source: Dan Savage (The Stranger)

... Pediatric endocrinologist Maria Newof the Mount Sinai School of Medicine and Florida International Universityisn't just trying to prevent lesbianism by treating pregnant women with an experimental hormone. She's also trying to prevent the births of girls who display an "abnormal" disinterest in babies, don't want to play with girls' toys or become mothers, and whose "career preferences" are deemed to "masculine."

... So no more Elena Kagans, no more Donna Shalalas, no more Martina Navratilovas, no more k.d. langs, no more Constance McMillensbecause all women must grow up to suck dick, crank out babies, and do women's work. And the existence of adult women who are not interested in "becoming someone's wife" and "making babies" constitutes a medical emergency that requires women who are currently pregnant to be treated with an experimental hormone. Otherwise their daughters could grow up to, um, be nominated to sit on the Supreme Court, serve as cabinet secretaries, take 18 Grand Slam singles titles, win Grammies, or take their girlfriends to prom.

And we can't have that.

Two things: Gay people have been stressing out about a day arriving when scientists developed treatments to prevent homosexuality. You can read about the preventing gay sheep freak out here, you can read about Twilight of the Golds here, and I recallbut can't quickly find a link fora "fellow" at the Family Research Council or the American Family Association who backed in-utero hormone treatments to prevent homosexuality. Well, here we arethe day appears to have arrived. Now what are we going to do about it?

Read more: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/06/29/do...
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's sickening.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. Maybe a doctor will come up with a pill to give to those who
try to destroy people from developing and becoming themselves.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is insane
Really. I mean, how crazy can people get?
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I give you the tea partiers
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Oh, God yes
Do I have to thank you for reminding me?
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. if this weren't from dan, I would be inclined to think it had to be the Onion.
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 12:38 AM by niyad
this cretin is a doctor? un-friggin-believable.

I am still trying to figure out HOW she thinks she can do THIS: She's also trying to prevent the births of girls who display an "abnormal" disinterest in babies, don't want to play with girls' toys or become mothers, and whose "career preferences" are deemed to "masculine."

addendum: having just tried to read the bilge water that is her "research", I hereby posit the idea that it is the females with the supposed requisite amount of cah who are "abnormal"-- you know, those who like babies, want to have sex with men, and get paid slave wages for scut work.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. I can remember when it was not consider feminine for women to be doctors
My great-aunt's best friend was a doctor and got her degree when it was very unusual for women to become doctors. She had to fight to get into medical school and again to get her license. While she and my great-aunt would not have considered themselves feminists, they were advocates for women getting the vote and they both lead professional lives without marrying, even though they were raised in a time when women who did not get married were thought unusual.

So why is that "doctor" messing with other women's children, not knowing what her treatments might to do the developing fetuses? How is any hospital or medical board allowing her to do this?
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'll bet the next development will be
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 12:44 AM by Duer 157099
to inject testosterone into pregnant women who have male fetuses so that their boys have big dicks.

Betcha it'll happen.
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USArmyParatrooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. In the case, the glass is half full
Don't look now but the bigots are inadvertently admitting that some people are born gay.
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
51. So true. Lol!
I wonder how long it will take before the infighting starts over this revelation. They're slow on the uptake (remember how long it took for them to realize what teabagging was?) but mighty quick to deny, blame, accuse and fight.

I'm anticipating some buttery popcorn moments in our future.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. No more "Dr." Maria New
Yes there I said it. Perhaps the "good doctor" has issues with her own issues...

And somewhere in medico legal ethics this should have never been approved by an ethics committee.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. We need an in-utero treatment to cure religious fundamentalism
That would solve a LOT of problems.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. So, can this be reversed?
Can they then invest a medical treatment into a developing fetus to make it virtually guaranteed to be gay?

That would seem to be a useful thing to have if you were to, say, be visiting a megachurch shortly before communion and had a few seconds alone with the sacramental wine.


Just thinking out loud here, of course.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'm not a Doctor
but I always thought that you needed people of different sexes in order to get pregnant.

If this is not the case, I'm going to need an explanation of some sort.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Won't work
First of all they obviously don't have proper data. Human Sexuality is far more complex than 'hormones' and our understanding of fetal hormonal influences is not complete. What they'll do is fuck people up. Dexamethosone has some serious side effects. Treating for CAH is one thing, attempting to alter potential sexuality is medical malpractice as far as I'm concerned, experimentation worthy of the worst of medical monsters. What we should do is pull licenses and put them in jail.

The whole hormone thing? The embryo starts out with estrogens that trigger the androgens anyway, if I recall correctly. It's cascade kind of thing, I'd have to look it up.

AND by the way, when I want to, I get seriously buff, and I'm very strong. I've always had decent muscularity for a woman along with lower than average body fat (although middle age is giving me a bit of a belly)--an indicator for higher androgens--I'm as straight as you can get. I call bullshit on the whole premise
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I don't see anything to suggest she attempting
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 12:58 AM by LisaL
to give this hormone to women who carry fetuses without CAH.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
29. She has to give it to women who simply carry the gene.
By the time they know the fetus has CAH, it's too late.


Perhaps most controversially, prenatal dex must be given as soon as a woman learns she is pregnant, which is usually several weeks before genetic tests can determine if the fetus is in fact a female affected with CAH the chance of which is 1 in 8 for parents who already have an affected child or know they are carriers of the genetic disorder. If the baby is healthy, treatment is stopped, but at that point, the fetus has been exposed to the steroid drug for weeks. There is no data on how many mothers receive prenatal dex, but according to the odds, 7 of 8 may be taking medication unnecessarily.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1996453,...
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Me too!
I have a gut from having huge children and, thus, a hernia, but I'm having the hernia fixed via insurance and the excess skin cut off (that I'm paying for while they're fixing the hernia) so that I don't feel like a constant muscular stick with a water balloon tied up front.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. and I think that cascade of hormones happens at about 6 wks of gestation..usually before
a doctor's visit.. All they will probably cause is a higher rate of cancer, somewhere down the line..or perhaps birth defects..Talk about "playing god" :puke:
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. As far as I understand this,
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 01:24 AM by LisaL
she is attempting to treat CAH (congenital adrenal hyperplasia) in fetuses. She isn't giving this hormone to just anyone who is pregnant.


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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. Get over it. Homosexuality will never go away.
It's been around since the days of the Roman Empire. If we could find cures for polio and smallpox, we could've cured homosexuality decades, maybe a century, ago. There's been none. Sorry, "reparative therapy" doesn't count. And c'mon, it looks like this doctor is a wannabe Andrew Wakefield who's practicing medicine to appeal to scientifically clueless utopian planners who want everyone to conform to a rigid social standard.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. Interesting.
I'm not a lesbian, but I like to talk about cars. I liked to play with toy cars as a girl and didn't give two shits about Barbies or baby dolls. I hate the color pink.

My daughter, grrr...., loves those things, but I'm trying to take her more feminine side and guide it toward becoming a chef instead of a cook or a president instead of a princess.

However, I ADORE men. I love their bodies. I love their smell. I have absolutely no interest in women as a sexual being.

So... what would they do with me? Treat me with crap hormones because I displayed an interest in science and engineering even though I'm not a lesbian?

That said: this isn't about me. It's about how horridly gay people are treated in our society. I also pray for the day when people just don't care about adults having sex of consent that isn't hurtful or predator/prey shit.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
19. So now they are admitting it's not a "choice"
Seems to me that in claiming there is a "treatment" for being gay, it negates all their bullshit "lifestyle choice" arguments. Assholes.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
56. If it turns out to be possible to prevent it (or to cause it) with chemical treatments,
Then it would become a choice of sorts.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
21. She's trying to chemically treat social constructs?
Um, ok.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
22. Dr. New should lose her license
In the meantime, I had no interest in having a baby of my own. Nice to know I'm "abnormal".

:mad:
:eyes:
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
43. It does sound illegal, or at least unethical, to me
experimenting on foetuses with no medical need. Perhaps American law says that pregnant women are allowed to take any drugs they like without giving a reason.

What if a doctor said to a pregnant woman "let's see what effect getting drunk on a regular basis will have on your foetus"? This seems about as unethical as that.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
23. OMG - That was me as a kid!!! I was a terrible, tree climbing tomboy
But it didn't turn out so bad - got married to a great guy and had three kids.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. me too
But I didn't have CAH, and I bet you didn't either.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
24. Here are the fetuses she is treating
CAH:

"Girls will usually have normal female reproductive organs (ovaries, uterus, and fallopian tubes). They may also have the following changes:

* Abnormal menstrual periods
* Deep voice
* Early appearance of pubic and armpit hair
* Excessive hair growth and facial hair
* Failure to menstruate
* Genitals that look both male and female (ambiguous genitalia), often appearing more male than female"

Sorry, I don't get the outrage.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. This can all be determined in the fetal stage?
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 04:49 AM by WinkyDink
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. They have to give the drug just weeks into pregnancy.
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 04:55 AM by donco6
Many bioethicists are opposed to this treatment.


Perhaps most controversially, prenatal dex must be given as soon as a woman learns she is pregnant, which is usually several weeks before genetic tests can determine if the fetus is in fact a female affected with CAH the chance of which is 1 in 8 for parents who already have an affected child or know they are carriers of the genetic disorder. If the baby is healthy, treatment is stopped, but at that point, the fetus has been exposed to the steroid drug for weeks. There is no data on how many mothers receive prenatal dex, but according to the odds, 7 of 8 may be taking medication unnecessarily.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1996453,...

edit to add link
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. "Many bioethicists" are opposed? I don't understand why it isn't ALL.
unbelievable...
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. True, that.
I wonder if they have to say "many" because they can't assume "all" just because every one they talked to trashed the idea. ??
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. three things
1. experimenting on the development of fetus with off-label use of a drug
2. CAH symptoms vary in severity, best to treat depending on how it manifests as the kid grows up
3. for cases with ambiguous genitalia, let the kid decide gender when he/she is old enough

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/congenital-adrenal-hyp...

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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
42. Parents decide all kinds of things for the child without
waiting until the kid grows up and decide for him or herself.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
38. Don't bring sanity into it.
Just last week there was much outrage over "female genital mutilation" at Cornell. By a surgeon performing corrective surgery on infants born with micropenis (or vastly enlarged clitoris). DU just LOVES it some ginned up outrage...

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #38
48. Just in case you missed it:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
47. If you read the linked pieces from the piece linked in the OP
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 10:35 AM by redqueen
you will.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
30. is there a drug for stupid?
i thought this was a joke. Till i read this:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1996453,...



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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
31. What mother
would take experimental drugs like that during their pregnancy? That's insane!!!!

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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
33. She seems to confuse gender expression with sexual preference
Interest in babies and job choice don't necessarily coincide with selection of sexual partner.
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
34. Humans... I fycking give up..
:banghead:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
35. o.O
That's some f*cked up shit. Sounds like something Mengele would have messed around with.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
37. That is FUCKED UP!!!
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LeftinOH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
39. Dr Maria New looks like the lady gym teacher I had in junior high:

Maria I. New, MD
Associate Dean for Clinical Research
...seriously.



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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
41. So now the fundy right
has their very own Dr Mengele. Well isn't that special... :argh:
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
44. I thought everyone knew homosexuality was a choice? N.T.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
45. Please tell me this is an Onion article!
:scared:
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. Not from Dan Savage... He doesn't kid around when it comes to gay rights..
This reminds me of another doctor.. I believe his name was Mengele.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
46. How does Dr. New still have a license?
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
49. Sometimes I think humans don't deserve the top spot on the planet.
Can anyone find out what the evil gene is and inhibit it somehow? It evidently makes otherwise educated people act like monsters. Thanks.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
50. The AMA is supposed to yank the licenses...
...or cranks who try this shit.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Actually, they can't.
Only state medical boards can do that. The AMA only counts half of all doctors (and they include retired doctors in their numbers, so the actual number of practicing physicians who are on their rolls is a lot less than half) as members. They are a powerful lobbying group, to be sure, but their power is waning amongst doctors, and they have zero power over licensing.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
54. What the hell? This is the second thread on "treating" homosexuality
in the last ten minutes.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
55. I thought being gay was a choice?
If this is so, then how does a drug prevent it, HMMMMMMMMMMMM?


































I'm being sarcastic, in case anyone can't tell.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
57. Just when you thought insanity might have peaked...
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
58. No more me, for that matter
"She's also trying to prevent the births of girls who display an "abnormal" disinterest in babies, don't want to play with girls' toys or become mothers, and whose "career preferences" are deemed to "masculine.""

I'm het, but according to this doctor I'm not woman enough. And I think we need a lot more women who don't want to become mothers.

How is this considered ethical?
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