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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:11 PM
Original message
Confessions of a liberal whiner...
Yes I admit it.. I am a whiner. I bitch, I moan, I complain. Can't help it. Want to know why? Well, I'm going to tell you anyway. You ready? I bitch because... there is nothing else I have left. I mean lets face it, the writing is on the wall. You can write, you can vote, you can protest, but the fact is, if you don't have a substantial amount of money, your voice means nothing. My 16 year old son just came in and put his hand on my shoulder and said, "dad.... the world has gone mad". He'd just finished watching the news. What the fuck could I say, I apologized... "Sorry bud, we really made a mess out of it, I hope you guys do better".
I felt bad, and more than that, what I felt was powerless. That's the main reason I bitch. I see what's happening, and I'm helpless to do anything about it. Even if I knew how to solve all these problems, who the hell has time for that shit? I'm working insane hours to try and provide for my family, and no matter how hard I work it gets harder and harder each year. The people who I help elect to at least keep the playing field level have pretty much just run the playing field into the ground, and there is nothing I can do about it.

So I'm going to come here, and I'm going to bitch. I'm going to moan. I'm going to whine, and I'm going to complain. I'm going to hang out with other liberals and listen to them bitch, moan, whine, and complain, and I'm going to let off some steam and I'm going to enjoy myself when I do it. So cut me some fucking slack :)
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. And I'll listen
and not tell you to STFU. Chances are, I'll join in. :toast:
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. You may have all the slack you want from me!
I wanna bitch and complain, too. I just did on another thread (sorry, guys!). I'm just in that kinda mood myself. I recently addressed my kids the same way you did with your 16-year-old. Sorry we fucked things up so badly. Some of us tried - really hard - to keep it from happening, and we failed. All I can hope for now is that your generation can forgive us - and fix everything we fucked up. Sigh...
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Word
:hi:
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Venting is valuable. No complaints from me.
What I don't like is internicene fighting. All it does is fragment us and make it less likely that we will have much power past Nov. 2010.

At the end of the day we have to remember what we have in common.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Who is "we"? "...less likely that we will have much power past Nov. 2010."
November 2010? You're not talking about US, you're talking about politicians in DC. We, the regular folks, don't have any power NOW.

They are NOT us. We have nothing in common with them. They serve the wealthy and the powerful.

The sooner people get over the idiocy of identifying with the Ruling Class and start identifying with their own class, the sooner we might have some hope of actually wielding some power.

sw
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. So having no power in DC advances our goals....how, exactly?
I dont like it but thats the reality we are dealing with. School me, tell me exactly how we have a hope of changing a damn thing without keeping majority control of the power structure that exists?
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. We already have no power in DC. Our government works for the powerful, not for us.
Whose interests always get served? Answer: Not ours.

Whose interests always get "compromised"? Answer: Ours.

Why the hell should I accept or tolerate "the power structure that exists?"

I don't, I won't, and I'll do all I can to fight it by urging as many people as I can reach to fight it with me.
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daleanime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. Gooooaaaaallllllll!!!!!!!!
Screaming fans cover the field. :bounce:
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. You think you were in better shape when the GOP was in control?
Because I would offer that you must be living on a different planet.
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thetonka Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #52
62. Doesn't matter which party
Whether it's the Republicans or the Democrats in power, the bottom line is the big money special interests are more important than the people.
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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #62
78. Quoting my Dad " Dems are more democratic"
This was in 1946 when I ask him why he was a Dem? This does not mean that we are completely democratic. It does not suggest that Dems are totally lacking in greed, hatefullness, or all of the bad things that Rep. do. However everyone on both sides are only human and the faults we see are there in every case.

Get used to it, we are dealin with human beings and purity is mighty rare. Jesus was nearly pure and his fellow humans crucified him. Jesus's anger at the fig tree raises doubts about even his purity. This points out why we must settle for leaders who are comparitivly the best available. If you can't do that you are doomed to having a very sore head from pounding it aginst walls and worse yet the floor.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
56. Yup.
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 06:54 PM by Blue_In_AK
I think you've got it, SW. :hi:
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-10 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
91. that's not what the OP is doing
the OP is not urging anybody to fight, just whining because he has given up fighting. Except, like the Beastie Boys he will fight for his right to a (pity) party.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. WE ARE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING ..with a majority!..
we have not added jobs..

we have not restored Habeas Corpus

we have not closed Gitmo

Bp is in control of a massive disaster in the Gulf and my state and local beaches

Supreme Court ruled Corps are people and congress has done nothing to change that with laws..or anything!

We are still in two wars started by lies and fraud and no one has been held accountable.

Our pres is still signing SIGNING STATEMENTS

RENDITIONS STIL CONTINUE

our health care has been sold out to the highest bidders..Big Pharma and the corporate insurance whores

we are losing more and more rights every day.


so how has that majority worked for us????????

I sure can't be bullshitted with those slogans anymore..they are just that..empty slogans!
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
35. You mention the Supreme Court and don't seem to notice that Sotomayor and Kagan
do NOT equal Alito and Roberts.

But carry on.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
53. Well you're wrong on half of that, and secondly, do you want to hand it back to the GOP?
Because they would be happy to accomodate you.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. *crickets*
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thetonka Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #53
63. How about give it back to the people?
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. "Well you're wrong on half of that"
Please enlighten us on which of flyarm's points are wrong.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. We don't have power in DC.
The majority control is maintained by the elites for the elites regardless of party label.

Sadly, the majorities in DC never think the people are too big to fail.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
40. It doesn't. That's the point.
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 01:33 PM by sabrina 1
We thought we were going to have some power by electing Democrats, a majority in both houses and the WH.

This is where we are.

Goldman Sachs is doing great.

50,000,000 Americans are on food stamps
Millions are still losing their jobs and as a result
Millions are losing their homes.

Billions are spent funding two wars for oil but
'There's not enough money to extend unemployment benefits'

No one was ever held accountable for the corruption that collapsed our economy and we have a bill going through Congress with so many loopholes that as Feingold says and most analysts agree, will not prevent this from happening again.

Economists are finally admitting what many ordinary people already knew 'we are in a depression'.

And that's just the economy.

The solution we are getting for 'reform' of, HC, Education, SS is MORE not less, privatization, strengthening and further enriching the rotten-to-the-core causes of most of our problems.

I could go on. But when you've exhausted all the means of gaining power, the question does arise 'what do we do now'?

To ignore the fact that the question is being asked, and to slam people for asking it, angry people, many out of work and facing homelessness, is definitely not the way to assure them they do have power. If the Dem Party wants to remain in power, they might start by reigning in their online supporters 'no matter what they do'. And they might start actually fighting for the people who elected them.

One way would be to use executive orders to help the starving families of America by extending UE benefits eg. Those people require an emergency intervention. Another would be to stop any more futile attempts at bi-partisanship and start working on our own party members. No support for anyone running in Nov if they vote with Republicans, is one way to do that.

And if they touch SS in order to push for privatization or extend the retirement age, if they don't appoint some progressives to their commissions to fight to save it from Wall St. gamblers, that will be the end of the Democratic Party for a long time, inho.

So, anyone who cares about the party ought to be whining, yelling, kicking and screaming to stop them from self-destructing because the other alternative is truly scary, and I personally will blame the Dem. Party if that's what we end up with.

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
72. Wow.. that was an awesome post...
You should make it it's own thread :toast:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #72
80. And so was your OP which I couldn't agree with more! n/t
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Whine all you want
I just said the same thing to my kids. "Sorry we messed things up so bad"
It's supposed to be better for them than it was for us and it isn't going to be, things are getting worse and worse. That feeling of helplessness creeps in and I keep trying because stopping means such utter defeat. Close to that at times though.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Screw it -- *we* did not make a mess of it
The cards were stacked against us from the start. If you're anything like me, you've spent the last 30 or 40 years doing every damn thing you could think of and none of it has had any effect.

The nasty truth is that the powers that be have owned us all along. As long as the oil was flowing freely, they could afford to throw us some scraps and let us think we counted for something. As long as the communists were around to offer an alternative for the poor and deprived, they had to pretend to play nice, at least in public.

But now they see a future of scarcity in which the only natural resource left to exploit is -- us. And there's nothing and nobody left to stand in the way of them doing just that.

So I don't want to hear about *any* of you out there telling your kids, "we made a mess of things and you have to do better."

We fought the good fight, but we didn't know the true nature of our enemy -- and now they have to see things with clearer eyes. Teach them that, if you teach them anything.

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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. +1
:applause:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. When I feel like that I put on the Floyd
Which is almost all the time now. :D

Childhood's End

You shout in your sleep.
Perhaps the price is just too steep.
Is your conscience at rest if once put to the test?
You awake with a start to just the beating of your heart.
Just one man beneath the sky,
Just two ears, just two eyes.

You set sail across the sea of longpast thoughts and memories.
Childhood's end,
Your fantasies merge with harsh realities.
And then as the sail is hoist,
You find your eyes are growing moist.
All the fears never voiced say you have to make your final choice.

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why?
Some are born;
Some men die beneath one infinite sky.
There'll be war, there'll be peace.
But everything one day will cease.
All the iron turned to rust;
All the proud men turned to dust.
And so all things, time will mend.
So this song will end.



:hi:
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Roger Waters has always had the power to sum up my feelings
with the most amazing clarity. I'm going to see him in November, he's touring The Wall. I never got a chance to see the original shows.. I'm stoked.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Have fun!
I'm listening to The Piper at the Gates of Dawn at the moment. :)

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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. I did not know Syd Barrett had passed away
Sorry I have nothing of substance to contribute to this thread, just commenting on the pic you included.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way." n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
75. Whine on you crazy diamond?
PF is the best.
:)
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. If some want to call expecting something better from our Politicans..whining...
Edited on Tue Jun-29-10 11:55 PM by flyarm
It is WE THE PEOPLE..WHO ARE THE KEEPERS OF THIS NATION..politicians come and go...WE HIRE THEM AND WE FIRE THEM.AND HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO DO SO....we are the constant..we are the people charged with keeping our nation and constitution intact...if by discussing our nations health is whining..and if discussing the honesty of those "we hire" to work for our nation..is whining..if discussing the economic health of our nation is whining..if discussing what the people "we hire and pay with our hard earned dollars" are doing about unjust wars of greed is whining..if demanding our constitution be followed as written by our forefathers is whining..if fighting to stop fraud in our government is whining..if demanding Rule of law be restored by holding all who have broken our laws accountable to the fullest extent of the law..is whining..if demanding that our waterways and food sources are kept pristine and free of oil and gas that is both cancerous and dangerous to our very beings, our livelihood, and our property values is whining..

Then I believe we all have an obligation to whine...AN OBLIGATION TO OUR CONSTITUTION AND TO FUTURE GENERATIONS THAT WILL INHERIT WHAT WE LEAVE THEM...and we all need to WHINE..AND TO do so loudly and often!DAILY IF NEED BE, UNTIL THOSE WHO WORK FOR US REALIZE WE ARE THE BOSSES..NOT THEY!
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. Well when you put it that way...
I'll keep bitching :toast:
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Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
14. I will listen, sometimes whine, sometimes bitch and moan
You are right, having that sort of day myself, trying to shake off the feeling of 'boy are we in deep sh**'.... I get what you are saying

(rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiip)

That is the sound of 'slack' being 'cut'.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
16. participatory democracy doesn't work w/o bitching. on the other hand, feudal state thrive
in the absence of dissent.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
18. Keep "Whining", dude. You're in fine company.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
19. Well it sure beats getting out there
and trying to make a difference in your part of the world.

Why do DUers think that if they can't change things on the national or global stage, they can do nothing? And as to action, yeah voting's great and protests can be lots of fun but if you want to actually DO something, there are more effective things to add to that list of activities. Find your local Dem party and get involved. If that's not happening find a local candidate and help them. The tedious work involved in campaigns require many hands. Mailings, fundraising events, door-to-door for the candidate, there is no end to what needs to be done.

While this sort of thing doesn't make the evening news or even the conversation at DU, it actually puts some truth to when you tell your kids "I tried to make a difference."

Julie
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Yeah, because getting involved makes so much difference...
Sorry, I'm past the point where I kid myself.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Yes, it can.
Though the change may not affect millions it still counts. Not much glory in the small time achievements though so, hey, just fuck it.

Julie
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I phoned and wrote and emailed my ass off...
And I did it to keep universal healthcare on the table and I did it to keep the public option and I did it for medicare for all.

I didn't even get a god damned t shirt.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Hey.. we got a bigger better war..
and a renewed Patriot Act, and we get to get disappointed again after we elect more Dems in November. Oh and we were marginalized. So at least we have that going for us.
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PSzymeczek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #33
69. And we were called "effing retarded"
by Rahm.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. I know right... it's bad enough they
screw us over but they have to piss on us as well... I hate that guy.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Impressive
A few weeks of e-mails and phone calls on a single issue when it was on the forefront of the national stage. You must be exhausted!

If the world is to be saved the next generation will have to do better than that, in spite of the example they have to follow.

Julie
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. You know , it must be nice to live in a little fantasy world.
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 02:54 PM by walldude
You must be really happy with the way things are. Congratulations.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. No, not happy but not impotent either.
And neither are you, if you want it to be so.

Julie
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Feh
I recognize when I'm tilting at windmills and I don't stop merely because I recognize the futility of my actions.

I find it ironic when the supposed pragmatists, triangulators, and conservadems completely freak out when we take it to the next logical level and try to primary challenge their butts out of office.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. What it boils down to is you like to whine
It is a lot easier. Enjoy your whine and keep telling yourself how superior you are to those care enough to try.

Julie
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #46
84. So... you elected not to read anything I previously posted?
You suggested that my efforts (calling, letter writting, emailing, donating to single payer supporting groups) was somehow 'not enough' upthread a bit and now you are claiming that all I like to do is whine.

So, are you forgetful or what?

Seriously, do you have some kind of condition that inhibits your reading comprehension or memory? I am not trying to joke or insult here I just want to know if this is the case, because if it is not then my next question would have to be: "what magical additional step us 'single payer people' had to take to at least get in a public option compromise."

What did we miss? What didn't we do? There were polls that the majority of Americans wanted a fully funded public health plan or at least a public option. So explain where we went wrong.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. Uhm
Try a steady stream from spring of 2009 to somewhere into early 2010. Oh yeah and I donated to local PAC's that were in favor of single payer universal as well.

Your dismissive attitude towards a great deal of effort for someone who has a full time job speaks volume about your requirements. For progressives all efforts will be dismissed and no effort will ever be enough, after all, we didn't get what we wanted and if we had really, really, really, wanted it we would have somehow got it.

Sorry but that is nonsense.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. I've been volunteering, e-mailing, calling, and I even held office
I estimate I've given hundreds of thousands of hours to local Democratic candidates, as well as Presidential and Congressional candidates over the past thirty years.

Please don't paint me, or anyone else here, with that broad brush.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #51
89. that's got to be an over-estimate
just 100,000 hours would be working full time for 48 years.

And is your advice to younger people to just give up? That we cannot win, we can't break even, and we cannot quit the game?

I have said before that this seems to be the theme song for a large swath of DU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YrinCQOxB0&feature=rela...
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. -1 for your smugness. Well whoop dee doo! How perfect you are n/t
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 12:38 PM by Catherina
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
48. Because the OP clearly states you can only do one or the other, right?
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
55. Well, my local congressman up for re-election
voted against Net Neutrality. Fuck him.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
21. There's always getting more progressives to run for office
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. It won't work when you have people like Rahm actively giving $$$ to "blue dogs". Without campaign
reform, we're screwed.
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thetonka Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
64. How about promoting real solutions for real people over ideologies?
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #64
85. Uhm
Actually progressive solutions are real solutions.

I would like to hear your actual solution and not merely the buzz words 'real solutions for real people'
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
23. The Alternative
Become one of the sheeple. Raise up your head just long enough to see which pen you are headed for then get back in line and follow the crowd.

Ignorance be bliss. Keeping your head down is safe. Quietly mumbling amongst the other sheep while the wolf picks off the outsiders ensures we all go in one lump sum to be sheared by the elites.

Step out of line and the man comes and takes you away.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
61. Another Alternative
start your own economy and community. Create something different and screw the people in charge in Washington, in your state building--they are not your friends, they are not our saviors, they will only do what they are paid to do by corporate lobbyists-- the Supreme Court said so-- they said corporate people have louder voices and deserve to be heard more than voters. Reject the status quo and congregate with others in your community and be subversive. Create your own barter groups and avoid paying for the war, avoid paying and propping up corporate assholes who sent our jobs overseas still expecting us to spend our hard earned money on their cheap poisonous shit, assist the old and infirm on your block and cook together, grow food together, carpool together. Determine methods to escape bullshit government bureaucracy.

In NY they just raised the cigarette tax again so they are the most expensive things you can buy, I think they are more expensive than weed gram by gram now. This has created a great market opportunity for the black or underground market. For us more or less law abiding peoples, grow your own. So long as you don't sell it you should be good. How about that plastic container tax/deposit he's pushing? Shit, learn to make root beer in a barrel like my grandmother used to. Lemonade stands or birch beer stands can proliferate. Have weekend block parties, call yourselves the Elm Street Collective and incorporate yourselves so you can have more rights than you currently enjoy. Make art on the streets. Take over foreclosed or HUD properties in your neighborhood and use them as community buildings. Hell, you can probably get grant monies to pay the back taxes and get the title. Open an underground trading post in your suburb-- We all miss the corner stores. Go to your zoning and other town hall meetings and demand space for community gardens. Have block wide garage sales/trades monthly. Have driveway clearing parties in the winter after it snows. Everyone can pitch in for a wood chipper and we can chip all our branches and yard waste to use as mulch since the waste company will only take it if it is less than 3 feet in length which results in lots of braches that were trimmed left on the side of the road.

Hell, this US official economy sucks balls and so long as TPTB continue to prop it up we all lose. It is time that the people learn to be actual producers again and have some dignity and respect. Having work that engages your hands and your brains and the freedom of your creativity is the goal. Keeping the jobs liveable, sustainable is another. If you have a means of production, employ your neighbors. If you have a skill that someone needs, give it to them and help them. Hold outdoor yoga and meditation in the street. Put together a neighborhood ballteam. Get the musicians together and have a festival with dancing.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. You'd make a great neighbor
Mine, right now, have loaded up on bullets.

I'm thinking my next move is gonna be to a country commune type community.

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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #68
81. Who said we're not?
My dh competes in a bull's eye league. Don't worry, they are locked up tight at all times unless he is cleaning or at the club. Don't overlook gun clubs and other clubs in your community (try Elks, KofC, Masons, maybe event the Vets; they often have fundraising meals where it is possible to reach a bunch of people. One of the problems we have today is little to no public meeting places. Try figuring pout where to put flyers up if you don't live in a university community. The best thing about this whole economic downturn, 2 wars, the inexorable creep towards crazy of the Repbulican leadership etc. etc. is that the right wing nuts at his club don't talk about politics aka try to spread their bullshit anymore, I think they are embarrassed.

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
74. Kick ass...
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 09:23 PM by walldude
This should be a thread...Perfect for the Democratic Underground. Damn, it's the second response I saw in this thread that warranted it's own thread :toast:
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #74
82. Thanks but I have been pursing this for sometime, exploring
the idea but it has not been easy to find answers. For a long time I knew there was something wrong with the way things are and have been. I wanted to be free-- this was in 2006. I don't know why but something happened to me after my father died. Something snapped and I could not handle the "way business is done" anymore. I was pretty burnt out at my job I guess after caring for my dying parent. But I saw oh so clearly what was wrong, what was stressing me out every day and how much like a rat in a maze I felt. I wanted to ultimately drop out, get a homestead and go off grid I think but I also wanted to be able to be creative, raise my family and am not ready to be a farmer as I don't know much about farming. But I did start a garden. Prior to my Dad dying-- I think it was 2004 I started reading up on homesteading, PathtoFreedom, Voluntary Simplicity etc. I tried but would always get sucked back into old habits. I think changing your lifestyle for most people takes time and frequent attempts--kind of like quitting smoking or eating healthy consistently.

I don't have solutions, just ideas. I'm actually pretty introverted and dislike being in crowds. Something has to work and whatever we want isn't what moneyed interests want. We want to be free and to have equal rights, peace and right livelihood. The stupid minivan was just a means to an end and the big screen tvs weren't needed, they were a poor substitute, succor us with entertainment so we don't think about how far away we are from our goals, anesthetize and immobilize.

I visit wish jar, a blog from Keri Smith. She is an artist and author. She often shares the books she is reading. I found a number of antiglobal corp websites, Reverend Billy. I found E.F. Schumacher, read Small is Beautiful. Found the E.F. Schumacher website, the New Economics Institute. I read AdBusters which does a lot to illustrate the problem but doesn't really offer solutions. Another poster on here posted a bunch of links (ProudDad-- I think). I just found those yesterday and was so inspired. I want to find a place to talk about these things but you see, I don't think these ideas are necessarily aligned with the mission of this forum.

I don't know how to organize a neighborhood. My thought is to knock on doors, put up a sign at the library, meet at the town's community center, or just invite everyone to a big BBQ and put out interest cards or something -- like business cards with place for someone's name. I think if more of us regular people talk about these things, come up with ideas and try them, experiment, we might be the answer we've been waiting for. We can employ the strategies that attracted us first to Obama-- the internet to get groups together locally. I've even found a group in my area that I can meet with that started the CSA.





Here are some websites:
schumacher society
greenchange
feral scholar
fourth turning forums
onthecommons
new environment association
wish jar
steadystate.org
relocalization.net
postcarbon.org
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. The world has always been a "mess". This is nothing new. nt
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
27. and I'm going to recommend you when you do these thingss
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. excellent effort....
.
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. What's there to bitch about?? Our votes made "history" in 2008. nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
34. But..but...you get to VOTE...for politicians who will sell out as soon as they take their seat.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. hey now... voting is great!
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 01:00 PM by liberation
You get to be outside, get some fresh air, mingle in line. You may even get to use one of them computerized touch screen thingies... so it is like playing a video game.

Great way to spend the afternoon, taking a couple hours off work if your employer lets you. What more do you want? Some people are just never happy with so many "expectations," and "entitlements." The world does not revolve around you! If this system is perfect because god invented democracy and gave it to us. Duh!

:-)
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
41. lol
so true. my son looks at me like WTF so often as he finds me sitting and yelling at my computer. but what the hell else can i do? and yes, i write, call, and canvas.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
47. Great post!
K and R! :bounce: :toast: :hi:
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
49. Whine on....
I`m all ears.

~PEACE~
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
58. My idea is that in every city and town and township we should all group together
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 07:00 PM by county worker
and bitch and moan. Become visible. Imagine hundreds of people meeting in front of some government building every night bitching and moaning. They would have to be noticed. If it happened everywhere they would be heard.

Say every night at 7PM till 10PM there is a group meeting in front of the courthouse bitching and moaning. I'd sure join in.

Everybody get up. Open the window and stick you head out and shout."I'm sick and tired of this shit and I'm not going to take it anymore!
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
59. What do you expect President Obama to do about it?!?
He's only been in office for 18 months! He inherited SO MUCH whining! Not to even mention the bitching and moaning!

Why do you liberal purists always expect him to wave his magic anti-whining wand?


;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
60. With you. dude. :o( When you finally arrive at the...

mind-numbing realization that the whole game is fixed, and our best efforts are as effective as hamsters on a wheel ... what else is there?

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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
66. I'll whine right along with you.
:pals:
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
67. I can offer you some cheese with that
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
70. You've always been a whiner!
And always for the right causes. I share your hopelessness. Just keep "educating" the neocons who are dumb enough to engage you in a political discussion. You were always the best at that.

I'm in Park City working for Zoli. That's always interesting! Peace brother.

Oh yeah K&R
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Tell him I said hi.. I missed him at the Rodeo this year..
Never got to the truck they had my rig at front of house...
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
76. Bitching, whining, moaning, whining and complaining simply make me feel worse.
Once I figured out there isn't a blessed thing I can do about the sorry state of the world and that bitching about it made me feel worse, I realized coming here was very bad for me. The opposite may be true for you, so do whatever you want. It's your life.

I accidentally clicked on DU...haven't been here in awhile. Thank you for reminding me why. I've been A LOT happier since I stopped coming here frequently. If you seriously think nothing can be done, maybe it's time to let go and be as happy as you can for as long as you can.

For me, bitching on an Internet forum is bad for my mental health. Again, your mileage may vary.

Part of why Ladyhawk gets depressed:

Number of posts on DU: 12453

I'm off to live my life now, for as long as I can...

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. I don't come nearly as often as I used to either...
this was probably my first OP in weeks. I have a friend who pays not one iota to politics. He's the happiest person I know. Live long and prosper :)
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. I came back to say, "Peace and long life."
If you truly feel you can do no good--I certainly feel that way--maybe it's time to pack it up? You might consider weening yourself away from DU. Maybe the "whining" is a stage we all have to go through. Perhaps "whining" helps some people. I wouldn't call it "whining" though. It's a recognition of the futility of engaging in this huge-ass pointless debate.

Politics IS depressing and--in my opinion--currently futile.

I'm done trying to change the world. Instead I'll change myself...or at least try.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #83
86. Hey, I'm glad you came by.
I whine but it hardly does me any good. Negativity is very bad for me too. When I'm around to much of it I get depressed. I have decided to screw the system, no point trying to work it--it's broken and I have no power. Many here just feel used and abused. After the last election I realized that voting for change--well that didn't work out very well. So I plan to work on something positive. Have you seen this? Transition US

I'm going to work towards sustainability, resiliance at the local level while the clowns in Washington can play their little games. Once we create a critical mass of transition towns, local communities with their own economies, maybe we can fire them. We certainly can't outspend global corporations to gain any influence. They laugh at our votes once they are given. I hope to keep community control of our water, our power, our food and our commerce.
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
77. I can dig it.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-05-10 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
87. save and kick
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-10 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
88. well that is pretty pathetic
It reminds me of a Matt Groening cartoon from the "Life is Hell" series. I believe it was called "The 16 types of husbands" and one was the whiner who sat on his couch and said "The world is going to hell, people are idiots, get me another beer."

So voting does not matter? It does not matter if, say, New Jersey elects a Republican Governor or a Democrat. http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/128

"Unless you have a substantial amount of money, your voice means nothing." Then, for you, there is no point to DU except for a bunch of losers to sit around and cry in their beers. Because no positive action is possible. It is impossible, for example, to write something on DU that will be read by thousands of people and will both inform them and encourage them to take action?

"Unless you have a substantial amount of money ..." Again, guess what DU, collectively has a substantial amount of money. If there are 5,000 members here with an average net worth of just $5,000 (and my own is somewhere north of $90,000) then our collective net worth is $25 million. If our average income is just $20,000, then our collective income is $100,000,000. That seems pretty substantial to me, but even ten times that amount will never be enough if we are just a group of people who have given up and want to encourage others to do the same.
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-10 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
90. The Squeaky Wheel gets the grease! n/t
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