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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 12:25 PM
Original message
Unease Among US Troops re: COIN Rules:
Edited on Thu Jun-24-10 12:30 PM by amborin
General Faces Unease Among His Own Troops, Too

.....As levels of violence in Afghanistan climb, there is a palpable and building sense of unease among troops surrounding one of the most confounding questions about how to wage the war: when and how lethal force should be used.
Since last year, the counterinsurgency doctrine championed by those now leading the campaign has assumed an almost unchallenged supremacy in the ranks of the American military’s career officers. The doctrine, which has been supported by both the Bush and Obama administrations, rests on core assumptions, including that using lethal force against an insurgency intermingled with a civilian population is often counterproductive.
Since General McChrystal assumed command, he has been a central face and salesman of this idea, and he has applied it to warfare in a tangible way: by further tightening rules guiding the use of Western firepower — airstrikes and guided rocket attacks, artillery barrages and even mortar fire — to support troops on the ground.
“Winning hearts and minds in COIN is a coldblooded thing,” General McChrystal was quoted as telling an upset American soldier in the Rolling Stone profile that has landed him in trouble. “The Russians killed 1 million Afghans, and that didn’t work.” COIN is the often used abbreviation for counterinsurgency.
The rules have shifted risks from Afghan civilians to Western combatants. They have earned praise in many circles, hailed as a much needed corrective to looser practices that since 2001 killed or maimed many Afghan civilians and undermined support for the American-led war.

But the new rules have also come with costs, including a perception now frequently heard among troops that the effort to limit risks to civilians has swung too far, and endangers the lives of Afghan and Western soldiers caught in firefights with insurgents who need not observe any rules at all.
Young officers and enlisted soldiers and Marines, typically speaking on the condition of anonymity to protect their jobs, speak of “being handcuffed,” of not being trusted by their bosses and of being asked to battle a canny and vicious insurgency “in a fair fight.”
Some rules meant to enshrine counterinsurgency principles into daily practices, they say, do not merely transfer risks away from civilians. They transfer risks away from the Taliban.
Before the rules were tightened, one Army major who had commanded an infantry company said, “firefights in Afghanistan had a half-life.” By this he meant that skirmishes often were brief, lasting roughly a half-hour. The Taliban would ambush patrols and typically break contact and slip away as patrol leaders organized and escalated Western firepower in response.
Now, with fire support often restricted, or even idled, Taliban fighters seem noticeably less worried about an American response, many soldiers and Marines say. Firefights often drag on, sometimes lasting hours, and costing lives. The United States’ material advantages are not robustly applied; troops are engaged in rifle-on-rifle fights on their enemy’s turf.
One Marine infantry lieutenant, during fighting in Marja this year, said he had all but stopped seeking air support while engaged in firefights. He spent too much time on the radio trying to justify its need, he said, and the aircraft never arrived or they arrived too late or the pilots were reluctant to drop their ordnance.

snip
This has led to situations many soldiers describe as absurd, including decisions by patrol leaders to have fellow soldiers move briefly out into the open to draw fire once aircraft arrive, so the pilots might be cleared to participate in the fight.


snip

Complaints about how they are allowed to fight are another matter and can be read as a sign of deeper disaffection and strains within the military over policy choices. One Army colonel, in a conversation this month, said the discomfort and anger about the rules had reached a high pitch.
The troops hate it,” he said. “Right now we’re losing the tactical-level fight in the chase for a strategic victory. How long can that be sustained?”



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/world/asia/23troops.html?pagewanted=2&sq=u.s. soldiers afghanistan&st=cse&scp=1
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 12:45 PM
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1. Short of genocide, they aren't going to win this war
And unless the nation is willing to engage in that again, why not cut the losses early?
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 01:09 PM
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3. i'm convinced of that!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 01:02 PM
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2. "All marines are riflemen." At least that's what they told me when I was one.
And, we were told we had to obey orders...even if we didn't like them.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 01:10 PM
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4. they're being sacrificed, is how it looks to me
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yep. Cannon-fodder for the ambitions of politicians and generals in a lost war.
But, they'll get a pretty monument for the politicians and generals to shed crocodile tears over when preparing for the next "sacrifices".
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. "Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy."
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy."

Henry Kissinger, quoted by Bob Woodward in The Final Days, 1976
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The insect Henry Kissinger will have to reincarnate quite a few times to achieve dumb stupid animal.
And that's only if he works very, very hard and doesn't make anymore mistakes.

(apologies to insects)
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. being halfway at war is like being halfway pregnant. It doesn't work that way
In Afghanistan everybody is a combatant, since there is no army. Or no one is a combatant since their is no army. Either way, with a don't harm civilians policy we are screwing up.

We should either be a peace force with an absolute moratorium against violence or get the hell out. Otherwise too many get killed.

New report: Numbers of AlQaeda in Afghanistan MAYBE in double digits, if that. We have 350,000 there because of maybe 20 evil guys. Really? MAKES NO SENSE!!!
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