Can someone explain to me in simple terms why McCrystal was fired?

[howard112211]

I read something about a Rolling Stone interview and how he is accused of not respecting civilian leadership and he made some snarky remarks towards Biden. Can someone compile the whole story for me in a few short sentences, since I am too tired to click through all the news websites at the moment? Thanks folks.
:hug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. He got drunk, committed insubordination, and disgraced the uniform.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

[Critters2]

34. Yep. nt

[merh]

38. It is not insubordination - it was a violation of UCMJ article 88

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm88.htm

[niyad]

2. click on the rolling stone article.

[JuniperLea]

3. Insubordination...

Plain and simple. It is against military standard of behavior. This isn't the first time a General has been fired for insubordination. There are no grey areas in this.

[DURHAM D]

4. insubordination

He ran his mouth and allowed his team to run their mouth in the presence of a reporter.

I think he wanted to be fired to spend more time with his family.

[grantcart]

5. UCMJ is very explilcit

http://cons-lie.com/2010/06/22/gen-mcchrystal-should-resign-or-face-charges/



“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

[arbusto_baboso]

35. Yep, what grantcart said.

Civilians enjoy freedom of speech. Active duty members of the military have their speech more circumscribed by regulations. It has to be that way if the military is to continue being a servant of civilian authority rather than the other way around.

[Solly Mack]

6. His mouth overloaded his butt.

[bemildred]

7. He's a loudmouth drunk? nt

[Bobbieo]

8. Was he fired or was he allowed to resign? There is a big difference, here.

[DURHAM D]

9. He offered his resignation and it was accepted. Same as fired. nt

[Statistical]

30. Not in the military. Not even close.

He will get full benefits, honorable discharge, pension (retirement pay) and almost free healthcare for himself and family for life.

In military there is a VERY big difference (hundreds of thousands in lifetime benefits).

[DURHAM D]

31. oh please...

[Statistical]

39. Maybe I am crazy but I consider a multi-million dollar retirement to be better than "fired"

Years Out	Year	Monthly Pay	Annual Pay	Cumulative
1		2010	$12,661		$151,929	$151,929
10		2019	$17,255		$207,064	$1,782,343
20		2029	$24,340		$292,084	$4,296,514
30		2039	$34,334		$412,014	$7,843,000
40		2049	$48,432		$581,186	$12,845,670

O-10 with 34 years of service.
http://militarypay.defense.gov/mpcalcs/Calculators/FinalPayHigh3.aspx

http://militarypay.defense.gov/mpcalcs/Calculators/FinalPayHigh3.aspx

If he was truly "fired" (court martial and a less than honorable discharge) he would collect nothing for his service.

Next month he gets a check for $12,661 and the checks only get bigger as long as he is alive.

First year alone that is a $151,929 retirement income. Of course it is indexed with inflation so depending on how long he lives he will collect $4 to $12 million from taxpayers. That is excluding the cost of the very generous tricare for life. Given he is only 55 years old it is entire possible he will collect for a long time.

He got "fired".... sure. Can I please get fired into a multi-million dollar retirement? Please?

[DURHAM D]

40. The poster did not ask if he retained rank or benefits.

context...

[Statistical]

43. Context.

Question asked: "Was he fired or was he allowed to resign? There is a big difference, here. "
Your response/claim: "He offered his resignation and it was accepted. Same as fired."

He offered resignation but that is hardly same thing as being fired. That is the context.

Had he been "fired" = court martial & less than honorable discharge and no benefits.

Resignation = $150,000 annual retirement income. Potentially $12 million in retirement benefits/income over next 40 years.

So unless you consider $0 = $12 million then no it isn't the "same thing as fired".

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[11 Bravo]

11. Not really. Whatever face they may try to put on it, he was cashiered.

[sarge43]

14. He was relieved of command.

That's a slam dunk for any officer, a gut punch for a flag. He might as well put in the retirement papers.

[Tempest]

10. The bottom line

He was critical of the way the Afghan war was being conducted, critical of Afghan's leaders and critical of the civilian leadership.

He undermined the entire operation.

[MilesColtrane]

12. Fired for being an disrespectful asshole.

I suspect he was already on a short leash for leaking his request of the WH for more troops last year.

[sarge43]

19. And a stupid one.

Throwing out that kind of red meat to Rolling Stone magazine -- Jesus. It does not play nice; ask John McCain.

[noamnety]

13. Basically

He was tombstoned for not following skinner's new rules.

[howard112211]

15. Thanks all, for the info.

:)

[Oregone]

16. It allows the politicians to rebrand the war and sell a "new" Afghan strategy

[Tempest]

17. Obama specifically said the strategy stays the same

Including the withdrawal schedule.

He won't change either, he knows it would be political suicide.

[Oregone]

20. I disagree

"He won't change either, he knows it would be political suicide."

Long term, not changing anything may be political suicide. Or maybe I don't disagree...maybe damned if you do, damned if you don't

But I have no crystal ball.

Ill be VERY surprised if they can this guy without launching a media campaign to resell the war. Time will tell

[ThomWV]

18. He questioned the commands of the Commander in Chief, unacceptable in the military chain of command

[ClarkUSA]

21. McChrystal approved the quotes before publication and violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice

Read all about it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x350990

[Stinky The Clown]

22. Talked smack. Got smacked. That's it in a nutshell.

[Saboburns]

23. And yet nobody can offer a quote by McChrystal where he is shown to be Insubordinate

I can't stand the guy, but I did read every word of the article and I do NOT see any instances where McChrystal is quoted as being Insubordinate.

I'm with the Original poster, Give me the quote.

Because I don't see it.

[Catherina]

29. I don't either. I think the unforgivable sin was saying the war is unwinnable

Sin number one: "It's not going to look like a win, smell like a win or taste like a win."

Sin number two: Contradicting the administration's claims that they're going to draw down.

Sin number three: "If Americans pulled back and started paying attention to this war, it would become even less popular."



Lacking deference? Sure. Not respectful. Sure. Insubordinate? No.

You'll notice no one at the White House is calling it insubordination. They're calling it a *mistake*.

[sarge43]

42. For starters, this is the second time President Obama had to brace this flap mouth

about his public statements concerning the VP.

The quote by McChrystal, "Are you asking about Vice President Biden? Who's he?"

This is a violation of Article 88, UCMJ - Contempt toward officials. The VP is listed.

This may be fairly mild; however, the UCMJ is tight lipped and hot eyed about public statements of contempt.

Putting it another way, if one McChrystal's subordinate was quoted in a national publication "General McChrystal? (laugh here) Who's he?", subord would be made to feel unloved by way of an Article 89 noose wrapped around his neck.

[OHdem10]

24. Begin with the Principle: In this country Civilian Control of Military

is sacrosanct.

Either by dissing members of WH Civilan Leadership or permitting
his staff to make such comments in his presence, McCrystal
crossed the line and undermined the WH. This is unnacceptable
under any circumstance. Civilian Rule in this country is
absolute.

[Fastcars]

25. As CIC Obama Can Relieve Him For Any Reason...`

At least that is my understanding of how the military works. On the other hand I don't think the President can kick a general out of the military without going through a court martial. In which case it would have to be proven that McCrystal was insubordinate and that his insubordination merited a loss of all rank and priviledges.

I agree that his military career is effectively over, and this may have been a conscious decision on his part. Look for him to cash in by becoming an advisor now.

[haele]

26. Because he showed poor judgment and leadership abilities.

Whether or not he was a good soldier, or a good administrator, both his actions and the actions of his aides showed he lacked the smart leadership, cool thinking, and discipline the position he was in required. He was a hot-shot tactician with too narrow a focus.
My opinion from observation and talking with the retired Marines around here, McCrystal is basically a George Armstrong Custer. Pretty much a "warrior"-type; good enough on the field leading a battalion, but wasn't capable of much more than that, and certainly over his head once he got into the upper level rear-echelon power structure.

Haele

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

27. He engaged in high

douchebaggery.

[Obamanaut]

28. In the RS article I read (linked to in another thread), I could find nothing

that was contemptuous. Some stuff may have been ill-advised, some off color and/or rude, but not contemptuous.

Have any charges been filed for violating any UCMJ articles?

[Statistical]

41. Nope. He offered resignation it was accepted. No charges, no court martial.

He will get honorable discharge as an O-10 with 34 years of service.

Don't feel to bad for the guy. I used retirment caluclator.
http://militarypay.defense.gov/retirement/calc/01_finalpay.html

If he lives 40 years he will collect over $12 million in retirement income. :)

[Obamanaut]

46. I don't feel sorry for him at all. Seems a shame to retire over some

ill advised statements.

[Statistical]

48. A soldier who made the same ill advised statements about his General

would be out of the military too however most likely it wouldn't involve asking for resignation it would be court martial and loss of all pay/benefits.

[Obamanaut]

50. Perhaps. Perhaps not. Conjecture . nt

[TexasObserver]

32. He was insubordinate.

He spoke in disrespectful terms about his civilian bosses. He showed a lack of good judgment.

And he's incompetent at his job.

[socialist_n_TN]

33. He dissed civilian authority

That's a BIG no-no in a constitutional republic.

[oldgrowth]

36. He's bat shit crazy.nt

[LaydeeBug]

37. here's a link:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm88.htm

[cbdo2007]

44. He said something bad about his boss.

Never a good idea.

[backscatter712]

47. In violation of the UCMJ, used contemptuous words about his superiors.

Specifically, the President, the Vice President, several other members of the cabinet and national security leadership.

Disrespecting superiors, especially the President, is illegal in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. If a lower-ranked member of the armed forces said what McChrystal and his aides said, they'd be in deep shit, possibly looking at an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment - you're called to the carpet by your commander, get a sort of mini-trial in front of him, get punishments ranging from base-restriction to demotion to forfeiture of pay to extra-duty.)

In military culture, insubordination and disrespect to the chain of command are a Bad Thing, and get you in hot water in a hurry, especially since we're talking about America's system of having civilian control of the military, giving supreme command to the President. Disrespecting the President is disrespecting the chain of command and if it's tolerated, discipline in the ranks can fall apart, or we could end up with generals that buck their orders, try issuing their own orders to the President, and threaten coups d'etat when the civilian government pisses off the military.

That shit cannot fly, so the President must bring the hammer down when he's disrespected by one of his generals.

[H2O Man]

49. For being bad.

He was very bad.

[Sparkly]

51. This is funny, but...

... it's about right.

You just don't DO this and have any chance of keeping your job.