Lake Kivu -(A Time Bomb or Source of Energy? )Is this the Gulf scenario?

[Are_grits_groceries]

Lake Kivu, one of Africa's Great Lakes, is showing measurable increases in methane gas deposits, potentially harming the fishing industry vital to the region's economy.


Growing up on the shores of Lake Kivu in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Kevin and his friends were often warned not to play in the water.

"My mother always asked us not to dip things like keys, rings or any metallic object in the lake," he said. "She said the metals would react with some gas and could result in an explosion."

Kevin may not have believed her at the time, but his mother's concerns echo something scientists have been studying for a number of years -
the levels of dissolved gases in the lake and whether they are a cause for concern.

Lake Kivu is one of Africa's Great Lakes, on the border of the DRC and Rwanda. It is a source of water, fish and sand for two million people and provides a vital link between the ports of Goma and Bukavu in DRC and Gisenyi, Kibuye and Cyangugu in Rwanda.
<snip>
Possible Dangers
Eawag's report also said the density and layers of the water function as a flexible lid, trapping gases from the Earth's mantle as well as gases generated in the sediments beneath the lake.

According to lake water experts, the Salmon Enhancement and Habitat Advisory Board (SEHAB), a potentially catastrophic event called a ‘limnic eruption' could occur if volcanic or landslide activity caused the lake waters to turn over and effectively lift this ‘lid'.

A cloud of released gases would smother all lakeside life. "The only two known and observed ‘limnic eruptions' are at Lake Monoun in Cameroon in 1984, killing 37 people; and more catastrophically in 1986, nearby Lake Nyos. At Lake Nyos, over 80 million cubic metres of carbon dioxide were released from the lake depths into the atmosphere," A 2006 SEHAB study states.
Gaseous Increase
<snip>
Lake Kivu, Lake Nyos and Lake Monoun are termed as "Africa's Killer Lakes" in a 2006 UN Environmental Programme (UNEP) report. It said Lake Kivu remains a cause for "serious concern" as approximately two million people live in the lake basin.

"A rift in the area is pulling apart and causing a crack to move closer to the bottom of the lake. Large amounts of boiling lava entering the lake could be more than sufficient to trigger a large overturn releasing huge amounts of deadly carbon dioxide," it said. "In addition, the lake contains a large quantity of methane that could also cause explosions above the lake
<snip>
http://www.globalenvision.org/library/1/1732

<snip>
Vast Deposits in Ocean Sediments

Professor Sum explained gas and oil flow up the pipe together in normal drilling operations. These hydrocarbons occur naturally together in conventional drilling operations. The deepwater of the Gulf of Mexico, and other places where methane hydrates exist, present drillers with special safety challenges.

For one thing, methane hydrates are believed to exist in vast deposits underneath the ocean floor, trapped by nature in ocean sediments. Deepwater drillers could find themselves drilling through these natural hydrate deposits.

Professor Sum said geologists know much less about these hydrate-bearing sediments than conventional ocean sediments, and that there is "little knowledge of the risks" of drilling into them.
<snip>
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/209220-Did-Deepwater-methane-hydrates-cause-the-BP-Gulf-explosion-
Another article: "Degassing Lake Nyos"
http://records.viu.ca/~earles/nyos-feb01.htm

Is there the possibility of a similar event?

This type of event is extremely rare. However, is this what has scared the bejesus out of them? Are they worried that there is now so much instability in the sediments and the gas that the odds of this occurrence have risen a great deal?
Are they considering or trying methods to avert the catastrophe from the gasses that might occur?

yes, I have tinfoil. However, this has caused some bizarre and to me inexplicable reactions in some quarters that I have been wondering what the hell else is going on.

[dipsydoodle]

1. I think you'll find that methane doesn't disolve in water.

Why doesn't methane, CH4, dissolve in water?

The methane itself isn't the problem. Methane is a gas, and so its molecules are already separate - the water doesn't need to pull them apart from one another.

The problem is the hydrogen bonds between the water molecules. If methane were to dissolve, it would have to force its way between water molecules and so break hydrogen bonds. That costs a reasonable amount of energy.

The only attractions possible between methane and water molecules are the much weaker van der Waals forces - and not much energy is released when these are set up. It simply isn't energetically profitable for the methane and water to mix.

http://www.chemguide.co.uk/atoms/structures/molecular.html

[Are_grits_groceries]

2. It's the possible release of

CO2 that I am also referring to. That is where a big problem might occur.

In addition, if some event happens to trigger a huge release of gas, it isn't going to wait around in the water. It might burst to the surface.

"For the oil and gas industry, the substances are also known to be the primary hazard when drilling for deepwater oil.

Methane hydrates are volatile compounds - natural gas compressed into molecular cages of ice. They are stable in the extreme cold and crushing weight of deepwater, but are extremely dangerous when they build up inside the drill column of a well. If destabilized by heat or a decrease in pressure, methane hydrates can quickly expand to 164 times their volume.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/209220-Did-Deepwater-methane-hydrates-cause-the-BP-Gulf-explosion-

In addition, there is carbon monoxide to worry about.

[dipsydoodle]

9. When the methane reaches the surface

it goes skyward before anything could happen unless someone was daft enough to be waiting with a lit match. They use methane in some air balloons because its lighter than air at normal temperature and pressure.

CO2 disolves in water and so would make the water more acidic although not necesaarily to a significant extent. CO floats on the surface but on land you need to wilfully lie down and breath it in for harm to occur. Those African villages were at lake level surrounded by hills so the carbon gases couldn't escape.

Its the sudden escape / surge , a hitherto unknown amount , which BP will probably use as defense.

[Are_grits_groceries]

10. That one burst of methane up the riser

burned the rig down.

I don't mean some fool would be waiting with a lit match although with BP who knows. A spark of some kind is all it takes.

At one point on the relief rigs, the vapors above the surface had collected so much that the workers were wearing respirators and hazmat suits. They were worried about the possibility of an explosion also. There wasn't much wind at that point to stir them about.

[hobbit709]

3. Two different situations

The African lakes are full of accumulated CO2 and are in an area of plate tectonics activity.

The methane hydrate in the Gulf and in oceans all over the world is a concern because of the global warming.
Methane is 100 times more of a greenhouse gas than CO2.

It is now believed that the Permian Extinction was a two step disaster. First major volcanic activity caused a rise in temperatures and then the second rise came from the methane hydrate being released. After that 90% of the known lifeforms at the time became extinct.

[Are_grits_groceries]

4. It may not be so different.

Have they effed around so much that they have tapped into one of the huge pockets of methane with no idea what will happen?

The methane hydrate will expand 164 times its present volume if the pressure is lessened enough.

It might not precisely occur like the event at Lake Nyos. However, it could be some similar process with the unknown brew of gasses, pressures, fractures, and other things.

I don't know.

[hobbit709]

5. Look up the amount of methane hydrate in the Arctic

That is where the effects of global warming are much more pronounced

[Are_grits_groceries]

6. I am talking about an area like the Gulf

where a sudden release of gasses might occur because of a combination of factors.

The Artic does have a huge amount of methane hydrates trapped, and they are being released more as there is more warming. More warming, more release.

That doesn't preclude the possibility of a large pocket of methane hydrates (and other gasses) with their inherent instability being released in the Gulf.

[dipsydoodle]

13. There's a lot of fresh air about there

so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If you search you'll find they were actually considering mining hydrates off the coast of NC.

[Are_grits_groceries]

16. They are considering mining it in a lot of places around the world.

There are some real technical difficulties to overcome. Drilling at depth increases them.

BP and others don't seem very concerned about safety.

The problems that may occur with such drilling aren't well known. Even if they aren't being mined, drilling into them is an unknown danger considering that each area may have different characteristics.

[Kip Humphrey]

7. The Misissippi Canyon sediments are known to be unstable...

After Katrina, a drilling moratorium in the upper reaches of MC during hurricane season was put in place by the MMS for this very reason (unstable seabed sediments). Furthermore, there are considerable quantities of methane in the GOM both in hydrate form and pure methane (occurs in sediments and strata; there's even a subsea methane lake).

The first attempt to drill this reservoir by BP & Transocean failed when they drilled through hydrate pockets and lost the borehole sidewall integrity. There is reason to believe they may have encountered hydrates during the drilling of the 2nd well (the one presently spewing) 2 months, and again 10 days before the DWH explosion when the rig had to perform a cement job to seal sidewall cracks in the strata surrounding the borehole. So far, I have seen nothing definitive as to the nature of the resulting gas kicks (whether NG or methane) from the 2nd well attempt. That said, for some time this reservoir has been known by geologists to be potentially problematic because of methane concerns.

I figure such a rich reservoir so close to shore would have been tapped years ago but for major concerns it could be drilled safely. Whether those concerns revolved around porosity pressures of the pay sands or overlying shale, or methane issues, or over-pressured reservoir pockets, or brittle strata, or other concerns beyond my pay scale, I don't know.

[Are_grits_groceries]

8. I don't know either, but

something has got them acting like a long tailed cat in a room full of rockers.

That's why I was wondering about the possibility of those mooks stumbling into exactly the worst combination of factors.

I know they are worried about the oil, but at times it has seemed to be a side issue.

[Kip Humphrey]

15. agreed... I too am worried.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Lake Kivu Sits On A Methane Dome...

This builds up over years due to the nearby volcanic activity...a "dome" builds under the lake and reaches a critical max where its silent and deadly surprise on the local villagers. These lakes are small and contained where the methane has no place to disipate or dilute...not like a large body of water like the Gulf. Across the bottom of the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans, they've discovered hundreds of methane vents...many with the volume and intensity of the oil gusher...thousands of feet below the surface, yet I don't think we're ready to evacuate the seaboards for fear of a methane "explosion".

I'm more concerned with the many known toxins within the oil as well as the unknowns in the dispersants and their affects baking in a hot sun for days, weeks and months on end. It can't be healthy.

[Are_grits_groceries]

12. I've posted plenty about the dispersants.

Other people are yelling at the government about their such as scientists and oceanographers. That has worked well.

I don't know about evacuating any seaboards either. The pressure of the methane in rollovers or other structures and how much it has ever been able to vent in the GoM would be a factor.

If it is trapped in a rollover then that is a compressurized area like a dome.

[KharmaTrain]

14. We're Also Getting Water Testing...

I keep saying this disaster is "uncharted waters" and the impact will take years to measure. We still have no real idea of what's out there or what affect it will have on the long term health of the GOM.

One would think that if there's a large dome of methane or other dangerous gas that is forming, it can be detected and burned off far from shore...every day there are thousands (ugh) of rigs in the Gulf doing burning off methane and other gasses...so I think this fear is one that can be confronted.

The dispersants are another issue...just the fact BP has admitted this has never been used on such a wide scale set off the first red flags and it's important to keep the pressure up on pushing the government to get BP to end this destructive hail mary.

[Are_grits_groceries]

17. I know that methane is released when drilling and through vents.

I don't have your certainty about their detection, release and control of any methane pocket. Too many unknowns there too.

One would think a lot of things would have been already done to deal with or head off what has occurred now. One might think, but they apparently don't.