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BAD NEWS from Bayou Barataraia (helicopters at night)

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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:31 PM
Original message
BAD NEWS from Bayou Barataraia (helicopters at night)
Wednesday, June 9, 2010
BAD NEWS from Bayou Barataraia

All hell is breaking lose! My boat was on the spill clean up, along with many others from our community. Mike had Billie running the boat.

Oil filled Bay Jimmy on 6/6/2010. The guys said it was 3 ft deep in places. They were trying to lay boom to contain it. All that night, the guys said they could hear helicopters flying all over. They couldn't see them, but heard them flying over. The next morning all the oil had magically disappeared.

On 6/7/2010 we received calls from men telling us about it. Then we started getting calls from folks in our town saying to come check out the water in the canals behind our homes. There were clouds of dispersed oil about 1ft below the surface in all of the canals off of the main bayou. When we grabbed a bucket full and ran a paper towel through it, the paper towel came up covered in little orange/red dots of what we believe is oil. The following morning

6/8/2010 we found oil floating on the surface (looked kind of like floating snot globs) ranging in size from quarter size to around 5 in around. We ran a white paper towel through the water and it came up looking, feeling and smelling like oil. The air in our community smells of oil and some sickly smell. My grandbabies were swimming in the canal on Sat. I am praying it was in here yet.

6/8/2010, Billie called and said he was bringing in our deckhand because he was sick. Bad muscle cramps etc.

6/9/2010: Fishermen were describing helicopters spraying something, at night, from helicopters that reminded them of being in Vietnam, when they were spraying agent orange. The same type of system! Everyone is getting really angry about the spraying of dispersants. They are going to kill our estuary and most likely us! This has to stop.
http://bpoilslick.blogspot.com/2010/06/bad-news-from-ba...

So screwn! This is beyond the pale.

And yes, I believe them. They don't have to make this up.

They are probably scared shitless, and they have a right to be.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. O.M.G. - those criminals have to be prosecuted! nt
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burnsei sensei Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. +1
Both criminally and civilly.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. fuck. this is just so fucked.
:(
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. This is only the beginning
sadly
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. God damn
If true, this is very despicable.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. A couple of weeks ago I heard a progressive radio host from Alaska
telling the same story about the Exxon Valdez site. They weren't supposed to do it, and they flew over at night. The people realized what was happening when they walked on the beach in the mornings and their rubber boots started melting!

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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. It is the same group of people doing the spraying.
The military industrial complex.
So yes I can believe it.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I just asked where the military was - maybe you've answered it. nt
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Our military - as criminal as BP
Aiding and abetting them in their pathetic attempt to destroy the evidence before it hits shore
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Do we know the military is spraying? nt
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Way too many "military" systems are manned only by contractors
Rumsfeld's biggest legacy, alas: the military no longer has trained personnel for its most complex systems.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. There are military bases all over the Florida panhandle - WHERE is the military...
They should shoot down anyone spraying dispersants that have been banned.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
60. Yes -- but they are saying this may be Agent Orange ...!!!
Wow!
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. I've been saying this from the beginning...
BP is trying to "hide the body"...hoping if the oil sinks they never have to see it, think about it, PAY for it. I think the government is certainly not hindering them in this effort, perhaps helping.

These dispersants are so poisonous. They are committing a crime on top of a crime in the attempt to hide the crime.

Good god, why are there not more skimmers out there? Tankers taking up the oil? The technology is there...it is not even new. Why don't they start cleaning this up...let's face it - they sure are not stopping the leak!?

I cannot believe they can be so stupid as to think the entire world is not about to see much worse...



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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. +1 nt
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. hide the body is right
they will not be held liable for any damage from the dispersants but they will be held liable for the presence of oil.
There will be many people sickened for life from those dispersants.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
61. Corporate MIC covering for oil industry ... military uses most of the oil . . .
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
72. When you look at Obama's solid record of appointing people who have no business in
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 03:24 PM by truedelphi
Any positions, let alone the highest positions in the land -- they are all Corporate Positioned people. It is as though, to paraphrase Will Rogers, Obama never met a Big Corporatist that he did not like A LOT!

Geithner is the consummate Wall Street insider. And Obama left Bernanke, the Goldman Sachs point man alone as well.

Also very significant position relating to the food supply is held by pro-Monsanto forces.

If a President is giving away the right of the American farmer to have, hold and save his own seed, what does that tell you? When it turns out that the GM technology (A technology whose marketing by Monsanto is breaking the Taft Hartley Anti Trust provisions right and left) is so contaminated by fusarium and mycotoxin "Vomitoxin" that it is inedible, then what will we eat? The big Agro concerns have destroyed generations of seeds held by smaller firms. They buy up the smaller firms, like Hart Mountain, and immediately INCINERATE the seed.

Already, very few farmers in the MidWest are saving their own seeds.

As reports are starting to flair up that the glyphosate-sprayed fields are blossoming with fusarium and other dangerous fungi, I can only hope I am not here for another decade. I can not survive eating these poisonous grains. When I eat it I am in tremendous pain. Right now the only grain I can eat with any confidence is millet. And soon that will be GM-ed.

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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. I have seen reports that there is long term damage to soil biota from BT crops
It's a slow steady, cumulative poisoning of the microorganisms that contribute to soil health. The end result is a soil that is out of balance and altered in subtle ways.

The GMO atatack has been ongoing since Reagan.. The insiders that control the message regarding GMO's are fully entrenched that it no longer matters what political party appears to be holding power.

Obama really never came out with a position on GMO, and I recall asking the community organizer for volunteer work what it was and they just shrugged their shoulders.

It's pretty clear the Obama is just another pretty face for the Corporate PR branch of Corporate America.

Most Americans are totally oblivious of how food is manufactured these days. The synthetic flavors, textures, and packaging are all it takes to get people to eat something that is based on some chemical formula or trade secret.

I'm still waiting to see a detailed documentary showing the inside of a Corn Refinery, along with detailed photography of the manufacturing steps, equipment, and process used to manufacture High Fructose Corn Syrup by the Railroad car. I have a feeling that it all I have to do is cut a scene out of the last 15 minutes of Soylent Green and I wouldn't be too far off from the visuals of the refinery.

If that isn't a good reason to boycott HFCS for anyone, then they are way too gullible and deserve to kill themselves slowly, while shelling out money for product that costs pennies per gallon to produce.


P.S.
Try Taro, Plantain, Manioc, Breadfruit as alternative to plastic food products of the midwest American farmer.. Unfortunately, these are all tropical products that are basically unavailable fresh in mainland America, but we have switched and it does wonders for the body. Very easy to grow here in the tropics.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #80
94. Very glad to hear you are happy
In the new home.

I think my tack on food for a while is to try and survive on greens. Along with the occasional chicken and fish.

Parts of Oregon are supposed to have a climate similar to the H. islands's. Should I ever move north, maybe I could be the first on on my block with the taro, plaintain, manioc and breadfruit.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. Taro will definately grow in Oregon.
I came across a whole garden of it while I was taking care of family business in the East Bay of San Francisco, so it's natural that it could grow in Oregon with a little care.

Keep your spirits up. There are vestiges of planet Earth that still resemble the Garden of Eden, despite mans attempt to create his own private Hell. It is the uneducated, desolate souls that spoil so much without giving anything back, that it is up to us to put our foot down, put up a big fence and keep them out of the last remaining bits of paradise, which are all manifestations of our will anyway.

Aloha!
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
79. Because the Tankers are all Full holding unwanted oil for the Speculators
These are the tankers that were used to hold the oil during the runup of 150 dollar oil not too long ago, before congress cancelled out the Enron Loophole of the CFTA.

Companies like Goldman Sachs, and all the other highly levereaged Hedge Funds decided to withold the oil they bought on Leverage until they could manipulate Oil back up to a point where they wouldn't lose their shirts when oil plummeted. There have been numerous article regarding the tank farms being full for the past year or so, so why does the M$media not mention this?

These tankers are all full, and they don't want to offload the oil they paid top dollar for and further depress the price, simply because they have been working so hard to increase the cost of Oil after the collapse.

Nobody seems to notice or care that 10% unemployment, lack of industrial capacity, and an economy on the edge of collapse does not support the demand for more oil... Not by a long shot.

So the only real consumer of significance is the U.S. Military and the MIC that supports them.

Personally, I want to see Obama eat a nice big 99 cent Shrimp Cocktail while telling the residents of the Gulf that it's safe to eat seafood.

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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is beyond being
f'd up. If true, I have lost all hope that the government is on our side.
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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. The world is so whack,
that now I believe there are black helicopters.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I have to sign off.
This whole thing is making me physically ill. Whack, indeed. Where does it end?
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. Me too. Physically ill.
Where does it end?

It is the end.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. If it were a lighter subject
that was duzy material...

Goddamn
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. they haven't been on our side...
for quite some time.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. k&r for exposure. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. The comparison to agent orange is not an accident. What a bunch
of shit heads - spraying at night so no one can see.
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William Z. Foster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. thank you
Thank you for all of your tireless and valuable work here.
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Jumping John Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. The oil that has had dispersents sprayed on it is no good for refining so it is just
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 12:09 AM by Jumping John
a waste product and will be buried or incinerated and that will cost BP more money. So it would seem that they are OK with it sinking and lost to their "valiant" clean up efforts.
And if you watch this video you will see that the oil that BP is collecting from the seabed that BP said was going to be sold and used for the purpose of making the wetlands pristine and to help restore the animal life there - Well they were just lying. They are going to flare the gas - flare means to separate it from the oil and burn it off. And then they are going to take the separated oil and mix it with gas and burn it. They will mix it with gas cause they say it will be burned more efficiently using green technology.

So it seems that the coast and the people are going to learn that the capitalist system is a monster and the people with the least will pay the most. Here is the video:

http://bp.concerts.com/gom/kentwellstechnicalupdate0610...

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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. The dispersant causes red blood cells to rupture. Dear God in heaven.
What have we done.
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
41. That's what it does?
Jeebus.
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Checked out the EPA website disclosure on the stuff (Corexit).
Under the question "Are any human health effects expected as a result of the dispersants?" the EPA responds, "It is strongly advised to use a half face filter mask or an air-supplied breathing apparatus to protect their noses, throats, and lungs..." IOW, no actual description of the effects, just a warning. Fuckers.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #43
90. From BP's OWN WEBSITE on their "response"
Repeated or excessive exposure to butoxyethanol may cause injury to red blood cells (hemolysis), kidney or the
liver.

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/posted/2931/Cor...


Mother. Fuckers.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
21. The government never wastes an opportunity to experiment with
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 01:14 AM by scentopine
poisonous chemicals on people and the environment - the Whitehouse (remember, they are in charge) is giving a nod to using poison on poison warfare. You'll know when they start asking people to volunteer for studies. Out of work, needing some cash, why not donate some blood and/or bodily fluids for a quick buck and a good cause.

Wait til you get sick and can't afford a 20k / year health premium with $5k deductible. And of course because you are sick, you won't get hired. Then as cancer rates start to climb and birth defects start to climb, you will be battling BP and the government (remember, they are partners and BP is huge supplier of military fuel, Obama doesn't want to make them mad). History proves it will unwind this way. It always does. And after 20 years in court, you'll get $377.47. That's all that will be left after the $400 / hr lawyers get paid. You'll be left with you tube videos of inspiring speeches about hope and change. And a thousand miles of dead wetlands and beaches.

Meanwhile BP, with the government's help, will make a full and complete recovery. When it comes to evil, history is a mean and stubborn bitch. To those in power, we are just fair game for the higher cause of the free market.

The centrists RAWWWWK! The free market RAWWWKS!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. +1000 nt
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. EXACTLY! nt
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. +1
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
48. augh it is so true. that's what the pharmaceutical industry is all about.
convince people they need to take drugs, for .. just about everything they can think of. Ooopsy ten years later we find out it was deadly.. but but but they said it was safe!
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
81. No No No, it's called Freedom! Freedom to be Ignorant of your own demise.
The Freedom of choice dictates that every man woman and child have the freedom to make their own decisions, right or wrong, regarding how they take care of themselves (Except for Abortion or Homosexulaity) as all Americans have the right to kill themselves with Cigarettes, Alcohol, GMO Food, Trans-fats, Polluted Air, Unhealthy Images on the Silver Screen, hate, anger, jobs they hate, and the struggle to conform while at the same time spending wildly on unique self image, oblivious that a million others are doing the same thing they are.

All of that is part of the Social Disease inflicted upon Americans whether they like it or not, reinforced by Parental malfunction, religious indoctrination, the educational system, and ultimately Corporate membership, when one step out of line lands you on your ass on the the street, to be devoured by the debt collectors.

People chose this outcome, and now it is blowing up in their face, except that they have no clue how to respond to this disaster, simply because they stuck their head in the sand, and refused to contemplate the "Painful" thoughts regarding this broken system. For many people, it is just too difficult to actually face reality that they are nothing more than widgets in a broken economic system that really doesn't care for them, other than utilysing them as a wealth transfer mechanism for the elite.

Those of us who have beebn fortunate to have awoken from this nightmare are watching this unfold, and we see the groundswell building towards a cataclysmic shift. People are waking up, and the Government knows that time is running out for this corrupted system. However, they will bleed it for as long as they can in hopes they can come up with another flavor of centralized control of society.

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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
26. morning kick
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
27. o..mi..gawd!!!!!!!!
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
28. This is Capitalism

They're just looking after the interests of their shareholders, due diligence, don't ya know.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
63. When will Americans have enough of capitalism?
:)
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Guess we won't know until it happens.

One thing for sure, nothing of lasting effect can be had without organization. We badly need to take a page from the Greeks.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Completely agree re organization -- labor, women, liberals/progressives ...
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 03:19 PM by defendandprotect
and the Greeks seem to still be under attack by capitalism???

:)
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
30. how many people are they willing to kill to cover up the oil leak?
and how many lives will it take before this government... oh nevermind.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
31. Seems like a men in black special ops job.
And I bet the air traffic controllers did "not see" (Nazi) them either, especially the "former" military controllers.
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burnsei sensei Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
32. Our government and their corporate friends,
in the most opaque fashion, are endangering lives.
It is not enough that livelihoods have been destroyed.
This is a disaster of apocalyptic proportions. Last night, I looked up various sources for sequences of events both just before and after the accident.
This drilling site was unstable right from the start-- all kinds of strange things were happening at the creation of this drillinig apparatus. It was a situation such that BP and Transocean really couldn't predict if their efforts would, in an event like this, be effective.
If you can't foresee the outcome, don't do it.
BP and Transocean's visions were not of safe operation.
They concerned themselves with profit, and thus looked around real dangers that were clear up front.
Add to that;
if you don't want to see the procedure and outcome, don't do it either.
The people flying those helicopters and ordering them flown at night know that what they're doing is unethical, ugly and injurious.

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Paper Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
34. There are no words strong enough. Angry doesn't cut it.
This is so far beyond bad words, so far beyond comprehension.

Cheney all of them. That is the worst word that comes to mind.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
36. Can someone explain the organic chemistry of how dispersants work? What's the effect upon
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 10:02 AM by leveymg
similar molecules inside the bodies of fish, animals, and people? Wouldn't this stuff, if it came into our bodies by contact, drinking and respiration, also break up our molecules?

Gives Corexit a whole new meaning, doesn't it?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. RFK, Jr. Discusses Health Effects of Oil Spill
thanks to L. Coyote for posting this

RFK, Jr. Discusses Health Effects of Oil Spill

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
69. Does it cause autism, too?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. It's like soap or detergent.
It has a highly polar end and a highly nonpolar end.

So it forms micelles, to break up highly non-polar globules in water. Just like soap will break up the grease when you do the dishes.

You wouldn't want to drink the stuff, but highly diluted it's fine.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. What does it do to marine mammals, birds, fish that drink & live in it?
I understand that the human health consequences of exposure are relatively minimal, but what are the longer-term effects of dispersants and crude oil on marine life?
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. That sounds so benign
Just soap, huh?

Great. I was worried until you told me that.





"Its okay kids. Its just soap."
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #49
65. It just never stops with you, does it?
There seems to be nothing too vile for your support.

I live for the day when your kind ceases to exist.

I offer you a full glass of "highly diluted" Corexit.

Bottoms up!
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Tell me where I'm wrong.
If you can.
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #67
74. In your never-ending attempts to justify and excuse the abominable behavior
of the destroyers and usurpers of our beloved planet.

You have a long history of doing just that.

Goodbye.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. I'm not justifying or excusing anything.
I'm explaining the organic chemistry of how this works, as requested.

Get over yourself.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #67
84. I'll tell you where you are wrong... It's your lack of Soul
May God have mercy on you.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. There's no such thing as God.
And soul has no impact on organic chemistry.

Here's an chemistry experiment. Take a fish tank full of expensive exotic fish. Buy one if you haven't got one. Pour some dish detergent directly into the tank. Observe what happens to the fish.

Now do your dishes in your kitchen sink with dish detergent. Now drain the sink. Observe what happens to the ocean and all the fish in it.

Compare and contrast the results.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #87
92. You never answered the second part of my question.
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 06:02 AM by leveymg
But, I found this:

California EPA, cites Title 33, Code of Federal Regulations, Sec. 153.305: (http://www.coastal.ca.gov/ccbn/EnvironmentalLawsBrochur... ) "Prohibits the use of soaps or other dispersing agents to dissipate and/or mask oil on the water or in the bilge. Soaps emulsify oil, therefore, dispersing hydrocarbons through the water column and can be harmful to marine animals and bottom sediments. Violators are subject to criminal and civil penalties of up to $32,500 per incident (33 CFR 153.305)."

The stuff disperses "hydrocarbons through the water column and can be harmful to marine animals and bottom sediments." In other words, it turns the ocean into a hydrocarbon toxic soup, a liquid smog, that has the same effect on marine life that hydrocarbons in the air have on land animals. It chokes them to death, slowly or quickly, depending upon the concentration of hydrocarbons, along with other health effects, such as cancers.

In addition, Corexit has its own, separate toxic effects - it ruptures red blood cells. BP's own website: "Repeated or excessive exposure to butoxyethanol may cause injury to red blood cells (hemolysis), kidney or the liver." http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/posted/2931/Cor... (see, upthread)

BP has turned the Gulf into a giant vat of liquid smog mixed with blood thinner.


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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. Misleading, and fearmongering.
You can't dump oil and chemicals into the ocean on purpose. The California regulation reflects that, it's easier to hide oil that you're dumping on purpose if you use dispersant.

And for lyzing red blood cells. Yes, corexit will dissolve the cell membranes of red blood cells. So does detergent. That's how biochemists lyze cells in laboratories. They add detergent.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #49
83. If you haven't proven yourself a DLC Parrot countless times before
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 05:50 PM by Grinchie
This post takes the cake.

"But Highly diluted is Fine". So is Gasoline, TCE, lead, hexavalent chromium, and about 10 million other compounds.

Man are you guys unbelievable.

Just once I'd like to see how people like you live, what motivates you to spew such nonsense to the world, and fully understands what your motives are in order to disseminate such garbage as this.

Incredible B.S. from you Pron.

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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
39. I am slowly....
changing my position on the death penalty.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #39
85. Yep, I admire the Chinese and the way they deal with Corporate Malfeasance.
Put these rabid dogs down and be done with it.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. Which would make me happier if they didn't go so out of their way to make it happen.
It's "I'm shocked, shocked there's gambling" when lax to zero regulations make the malfeasance irresistible and then they have executions. Not that I have any interest in keeping a cat or child poisoner alive.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #89
96. I think the illusion of Tough Regulations is an American Myth
There are countless examples of the FDA cracking down on people that make a nutritious, healthy bread, or to crack down of the Natural Sweetener, Stevia, by bankrupting the companies that dare offer an alternative to the Corporate creed of monopoly.

As far as China goes, I really doubt that they explicitly created "No Regulation". They are merely depending upon businessmen to do the right thing.. It's called ethics, and in my opinion, ethics seems to be a nostalgic concept for any businessman, politician, or government official.

I have spent the last 20 years maintaining my view of ethical behavior, and what I have found is that it is extremely difficult to do. There are no incentives in place in our society to fastidiously practice a strict ethical lifestyle. In fact, it is punished by onerous regulations, permit costs, insurances that you subject yourself to in order to fulfill a goal of being completely ethical.

I recomend that people set a goal, and ethically follow that goal, no matter how many unanticipated difficulties surface in the pursuit of that goal.

It is truly eye opening when one realizes that the system itself is corrupt, and once you follow an ethical credo, you are essentially shunned as an outcast..

Just imagine if your body never shed it diseased or dying cells like it does every millisecond of every day.. you'd explode with garbage and putrefying disease, so the body sheds the toxic waste and replenishes it with new cells. We need to clean house, prune the orchards, throw out the trash daily. In the bigger realm, we have to get rid of the criminal and unethical elements as well, or we all suffer the consequnces.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
40. "A gray, algae-like substance" is washing ashore at Marco Island
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 10:20 AM by flyarm
I just got this notice in Fla..see it on alert map ..

"A gray, algae-like substance" is washing ashore at Marco Island


Could it be dead algae from spill and toxins?

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php

Florida

A gray, algae-like substance was washing ashore at a Marco Island beach this afternoon. Jeff Kutzke, a battalion with the Marco Island Fire Department, said Nancy Richie, the citys environmental specialist, has been notified of the event. We found it during our normal beach patrols and weve asked her to take a look at it, Kutzke said. Kutzke said he was not aware whether any samples had been taken of the odorless material. Patty and Eddie Webb of Marco arrived at South Beach at about 1:30. Eddie Webb said he encountered the material when he entered the water. Its some kind of algae because its fibrous in nature Eddie Webb said. As the Webbs lounged on the beach at about 5 p.m., children and adults frolicked in the water, undeterred by the unusual material, which rolled into the shore in sparse patches.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
42. This needs a kick
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
44. Military involvement
Our area has an air base, and the reservists have just gotten back from the gulf where they were applying dispersants right after the spill. Never heard that this was being done at night and these were not helicopters, but then again, I just recently heard that BP is blocking access to the press to oiled wildlife. Makes sense they would want to have oil slicks disappear---magically.

Also, why is the press so obsessed with comparing this spill the the Exxon Valdez when there is another spill much more similar (although much much scarier). Do a search for Ixtoc I and you will get info on the worst accidental oil spill to date. Happened in the gulf, they were deepsea drilling, the BOP failed, they tried several things (that we have just seen tried) until they got the two wells drilled to relieve it. And it only took short of a year. And oh yeah, it was a Sedco rig, this was a Transocean rig---do another search of Transocean Sedco. Why does no one hear about this incident, or are they afraid to scare us any more than we already are? And scarier still is that this happened in 1979, and they have no better ways of dealing with it in 2010. Frightening.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
45. if one reads Dougr's post on TOD, things look grim
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
71. A link would be nice!
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #71
88. here you go:
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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
46. I didn't get much sleep last night.
I kept thinking about this from the article. Too many awful, evil things going on.
"My grandbabies were swimming in the canal on Sat."
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
47. K&R n/t
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
50. I'm not shocked but this is still unbelievable.
:(

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keepCAblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
53. "...some sickly smell"
Um, that would be the smell of dead and decomposing aquatic life and vegetation. Mostly. The other source would be the foul and steaming stink coming from BP HQ and DC.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
54. When the spill first happened..
...that young Cousteau (sorry I don't remember his name) was out on the water talking
about the oil and the dispersant. He was adamant that the dispersant was poison. He
said that on the label of this dispersant, it warned against even touching it. Cousteau
said that they wore long gloves when they went out to check out the damage, as well
as wet suits and other protective gear. He said it wasn't enough. If I recall
correctly, he said the dispersant was a powerful chemical and they could feel the
caustic effects through their wet suits and gloves.

By the way, where is Cousteau now? He was the perfect spokesperson--a voice of
reason and science, against BP. He was incredibly intelligent and everyone
recognizes him as an expert on the ocean and aquatic life. Haven't seen him.

I can't imagine that he wants to be in the shadows. They must have muzzled him.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. He's been on the msnbc lineup a lot - Ed, Keith, Rachel. nt
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DeschutesRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. I've seen him quite a bit recently - I think last time was end of last week on Ed Schultz show?
The kid I've been listening to is Philippe Cousteau, grandson of Jacque. He has been really fascinating to listen to, and I've appreciated his stepping forward and into this mess, and educating me on a whole bunch of things I didn't know.

I only get MSNBC, and that is where I've seen him - seemed like every so many days he is on one or another show there. I saw him back when he talked about the disperant - man alive, that stuff sounds evil.

I wish he was on every day, though, in some reporting capacity. He is very good at explaining things, and he isn't just an offspring with a famous name - that kid knows a lot on his own merit.
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DeschutesRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #62
76. Just found an interesting article that suggests there could be some muzzling in the future
I started wondering how come this kid hasn't been on the tube daily as a correspondent. So I googled the kid and now begin to understand why he might not be being used as much as he should be on this issue.

Nutshell version: Jacque Costeau had a family by his first wife, of which grandson Philippe is an offspring (his father, one of Jacque's two sons, died in a plane crash). Grandpa Jacque married his mistress as his second wife, and left her in control of the Costeau Society.

There was a hairy lawsuit a couple of years ago, in which the second wife sought to limit other Costeau family member from interferring with her tuf - from using the Costeau name in a way that might confuse people into thinking they were part of the Cousteau Society that she controls. There was a second lawsuit as well.

Basically, the grandkids of the first wife, and the other living son are very active in a meaningful way in this business, and the second wife is very active in sitting back and raking in the profits, and fending off any interference with the money machine by filing lawsuits against others in the Costeau family.

I am sure there is more out there to be googled, but here is one link I found:

http://www.cdnn.info/industry/i030303/i030303.html
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #54
73. UK had banned that dispersant 10 years ago, as I recall it -- and after EPA
approved it at some point they told BP to stop using it --

BP went on using it!

Agree re Cousteau --
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #54
86. He's out on his private Island somewhere preparing for the inevitable
You can only try to warn people for so long until you get burnt out and start looking out for oneself and family. It's probably devastating for him to see his message muzzled and disappeared in the mass media so quickly and so effectively. As a biologist and scientist, he knows full well the simplicity of the toxic reaction organisms have to these man made chemicals that exist nowhere in nature.



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. I'd like to think they're doing it at night because the admin. said not to do it...
But the military could even be helping - who knows?

One thing is for sure - with all the bases in the Florida panhandle, it would be easy to shoot down those helicopters if the prez ordered it.
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. Who will do any better?
I agree that this administration has allowed BP to do too much (and too little), although I do not have all the answers as to what the government is capable of doing. The oil companies are the ones who have all the oil technology and I don't think many are willing to increase taxes to pay for the feds to have a staff of drilling experts sitting around, just in case. So, who will we vote for when it comes time? Do you think that Republicans will have a candidate who will be pro people???
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. Barry?
Hmm.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
56. K&R
This makes me physically sick. I feel like vomiting just reading through this thread.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
77. Is this being reported ANYWHERE else?? nt
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JEB Donating Member (134 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
78. BP deserves
Corporate Death Penalty and those in charge need to go to jail for a very long time. It would be hard to even count the number of people this ecocide has and will victimize.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
82. k&r
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
91. Spraying dispersants W/O telling the public?
Impossible...

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