Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"The Jones Act" of 1920 - We don't have Dutch skimmers because of the Jones Act?????????????????????

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:06 PM
Original message
"The Jones Act" of 1920 - We don't have Dutch skimmers because of the Jones Act?????????????????????
The Jones Act, enacted in 1920, places restrictions on certain shipborne activities in U.S. waters to boats built in the U.S. and operated by American workers. Foreign Policy magazine noted last month that a number of nations had offered to help contain the spill by sending over skimmer ships, but US officials turned the offers down, saying thanks, but they could handle the spill on their own. It was unclear what was going on at the time, but politicians and commentators on both sides of the partisan divide are now wondering whether the Jones Act is behind the refusal.
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/06/11/gulf-oil-spill-... /

From a transcript released by the White House of the daily press briefing with Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen, we learn that some of the best dredgers and skimmers from countries like Belgium, The Netherlands and Norway are being kept away from clean-up efforts in the BP oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico because of the Jones Acta protectionist law that requires vessels working in US waters be built in the US and be crewed by US workers.

Waivers to the Jones Act were granted by the administration of George W. Bush in the days following hurricane Katrina. And today, the Obama White House said waivers might again be considered. If there is the need for any type of waiver, that would obviously be granted, said White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs. But, weve not had that problem thus far.
<snip>
When asked about this by Fox News, Admiral Allen said, If it gets to the point where a Jones Act waiver is required, were willing to do that too. Nobody has come to me with a request for a Jones Act waiver.

After fifty-plus days of oil flowing freely into the gulf, the question could be asked: Why do effective and proven foreign clean up ships remain on the sidelines? Joseph Carafano, of the Heritage Foundation, believes it may have something to do with the Obama administrations close relationship with labor unions.
http://potluckbloggers.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/breakin... /

Close relationship with unions - bwahahahahahahaha!!

They are enforcing the Jones Act to keep out the skimmers???????????????????????????????????????????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. And a larger question would be
Why don't we build them here? Obviously, clean up at this point is a must, but why is our domestic shipbuilding industry lagging in this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
secondwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. good point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. wtf? 'IF' they are needed here? Jesus H Christ Obama, maybe you are Bush after all.
Maybe we need to call Brownie and ask him if we need some help.

Who the hell are you listening to?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Wondering the same thing.
This is mind-boggling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Utter bullshit
Edited on Fri Jun-11-10 04:33 PM by Turbineguy
The Heritage Foundation wants to scuttle the Jones Act and is using the spill as an excuse.

There's only one thing those creeps hate more than working Americans and that is working Americans who make a good living.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Not total BS.
Edited on Fri Jun-11-10 04:30 PM by Are_grits_groceries
Gibbs admitted that they were using the Jones Act and would grant waivers if need be.

The labor crap is BS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. +1 This is a hit piece on legislation designed to protect American labor. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. WTF is the Jones Act? That's a fucking ridiculous excuse. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. If that's true, I've just switched my opinion of the last thing I thugh
Obama was doing a good job at.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. But Ive been told here this administration is doing everything *possible*!?!?
That nothing more could feasibly be done to improve the effort!


Now Im confused. And when that happens......









Wait for it....








LEAVE OBAMA ALONE!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. Heritage is full of it, lol. They're said to be enroute air freight to Houston
Edited on Fri Jun-11-10 04:52 PM by chill_wind
Dutch Press, CSMonitor and a couple other links- posted here about a week ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I haven't seen an update, but they were supposed to be shipping the weekend of May 28.
Then there was going to be some more time involved with help from a Dutch team after they arrived here.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Part of the OP is from the daily WH briefing.
the other part is from a press conference with Gibbs. The Heritage Foundation is an aside.

The Dutch asked us if we needed their help a lot earlier. We said no then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I know-- Dutch offered 3 days in. And USCG Allen was still being cagey
about whether we WOULD actually use them, *after* USCG reportedly finally requested them themselves-- on May 18, which seems a bit bizarre.

Seems like a long, crazy story. One of the links alludes to the Dutch going through the State Dept with their offer when they got no response from the BPUSCG apparatus. Much more at the thread/links.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fox News is attempting to make it appear that Obama is slow
because the Unions would not like this.

I have no idea, but I wish the Union or someone from the WH
would speak up.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. obama is doing a good enough job of making obama seem slow
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hey grits, more- Houston Chronicle mentions Jones Act, too-- 2 days ago.
Just found this:



U.S. and BP slow to accept Dutch expertise
By LOREN STEFFY Copyright 2010 Houston Chronicle
June 8, 2010, 10:13PM


Three days after the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch government offered to help.

It was willing to provide ships outfitted with oil-skimming booms, and it proposed a plan for building sand barriers to protect sensitive marshlands.

The response from the Obama administration and BP, which are coordinating the cleanup: The embassy got a nice letter from the administration that said, Thanks, but no thanks,' said Geert Visser, consul general for the Netherlands in Houston.

Now, almost seven weeks later, as the oil spewing from the battered well spreads across the Gulf and soils pristine beaches and coastline, BP and our government have reconsidered.

U.S. ships are being outfitted this week with four pairs of the skimming booms airlifted from the Netherlands and should be deployed within days. Each pair can process 5 million gallons of water a day, removing 20,000 tons of oil and sludge.

At that rate, how much more oil could have been removed from the Gulf during the past month?

The uncoordinated response to an offer of assistance has become characteristic of this disaster's response. Too often, BP and the government don't seem to know what the other is doing, and the response has seemed too slow and too confused.

Federal law has also hampered the assistance. The Jones Act, the maritime law that requires all goods be carried in U.S. waters by U.S.-flagged ships, has prevented Dutch ships with spill-fighting equipment from entering U.S. coastal areas.



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/704...

:wow:


Interesting quote here:

Many in the U.S., including the president, have expressed frustration with the handling of the cleanup. In the Netherlands, the response would have been different, Visser said.

There, the government owns the cleanup equipment, including the skimmers now being deployed in the Gulf.

If there's a spill in the Netherlands, we give the oil companies 12 hours to react, he said.

If the response is inadequate or the companies are unprepared, the government takes over and sends the companies the bill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I'm going to have to brush up on older maritime law.
Jeez!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. K & R. Thanks for this news.n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. The Jones Act makes it illegal for oil companies to have their own AMERICAN skimmer crew?
6 Billion dollars profit in first quarter 2010.

I think they could afford their own damn AMERICAN boats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. this is where they are going to kick our ass
Bush waived the Jones act for Katrina.

they are gonna kick our ass over that fact
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. It's already starting. They've been putting up Katrina pics
Edited on Fri Jun-11-10 06:31 PM by chill_wind
of empty flooded school buses sitting in New Orleans, I just saw. Today is the first I heard about this issue-- I thought it was supposedly the EPA and the issue of returning water less than oil free back to the sea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. A President cannot "waive" a law
Not unless there is a specific provision of some kind.

Or maybe now we are OK with a President ignoring the law?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. Wasn't the Deepwater rig a foreign VESSEL?
Isn't that what Transocean argued in court to limit its liability, that it was a VESSEL under the maritime act, that it was not anchored, it could move around? A vessel registered in the Marshall Islands, exempt from inspection because it was a foreign vessel.
Can't have it both ways.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveVictory Donating Member (322 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. thats ridiculous!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. The spill isn't even in U.S. waters. It's 50 miles out into the gulf.
Yet another hit piece on unions and legislation designed to protect American labor.

:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I know it's designed to protect workers.
However, Thad Allen and Gibbs admitted that it was being used. If they had just said that it wasn't even a factor, I wouldn't have bothered to post this.

The people tying it to labor are full of it. This from WH briefing and a press conference. Why they would even attempt to use such a law or act like they are is beyond me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Sorry. I didn't intend to flame you, personally.
I appreciate your having brought this to my attention.

:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. No problem.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. Wait a minute
this is to preserve the jobs for Americans - don't we always see that extolled?

If this is the law, then it's the law - this is a nation of laws. The laws are not suspended due to emergencies - we said this after 911 when Bushco wanted around the law to "protect" us from terra.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Sep 17th 2014, 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC