Are public workers paid too much?

[pscot]

The average American worker has been steadily losing ground on wages, benefits and retirement security. Public sector workers have, in general, done a lot better. With government debt ballooning at all levels, Governors and mayors are going after public sector unions that were once untouchable. Most of us here are predisposed to side with the workers, but your pay is falling or you're in constant fear of being laid off, you may feel some resentment toward your neighbor, who works for the city and is still living high. This is likely to become a major political issue as the economy continues to stagger.

Spurred by state budget crunches and an angry public mood, Republican and some Democratic leaders are focusing with increasing intensity on public workers and the unions that represent them, casting them as overpaid obstacles to good government and demanding cuts in their often-generous benefits.

Unlike past battles over the high cost of labor, this time pitched battles over wages and pensions are being waged from Sacramento to Springfield to New York City and the conflict is marked by its bipartisan tone, with public employee unions emerging as an intransigent public enemy number one in cities and state capitals across the country. They're the whipping boys for a new generation of governors who, thanks to a tanking economy and an assist from editorial boards, feel freer than ever to make political targets out of what was once a protected liberal class of teachers, cops, and other public servants.

Republicans around the nation have cheered New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, whose shouting match over budget cuts with an outraged teacher—“You don’t have to” teach, he told her without sympathy—became a YouTube sensation on the right last week.
.....
Christie is merely the most florid voice for a calculated, national effort to fundamentally reshape the debate on the labor costs that account for the bulk of government spending at every level. And at the core of the shift is a perception among many political leaders that public anger at civil servants is boiling over.

“We have a new privileged class in America,” said Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels, who rescinded state workers' collective bargaining power on his first day in office in 2006. “We used to think of government workers as underpaid public servants. Now they are better paid than the people who pay their salaries

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38183.html#ixzz0qBEJvIEe

[av8rdave]

1. I have a hard time feeling resentment for anyone doing well via actual work

Anytime you see workers wages/benefits take a hit, you see the expectations for everyone else get lowered.

[pscot]

3. Agreed

But if the taxpayers are being hammered by the economy with no end in sight, resentment toward government workers is pretty much a given.

[av8rdave]

5. True that....

I feel the resentment is misdirected and based on ignorance. The resentment should be directed at those who strive to lower the wages of workers, not those who happen to be doing OK.

However, I understand it is what it is. The resentment you speak of is inevitable, unfortunately.

[Salviati]

2. No, private sector workers are paid too little.

The parasite class has been siphoning off all the gains in worker productivity over the last several decades, leaving the worker with nothing to show for their increased production.

[marmar]

4. +1000

nt

[pscot]

9. That begs the question

If workers in general are being screwed, and they are, how long can they be expected to support public employees who have better pay and better benefits?Saying that workers need to be paid more is empty rhetoric. Meanwhile, reality is kicking our ass.

[Raineyb]

15. So your solution is to put more people on the unemployment rolls?

That makes no sense at all.

The question isn't are public employees being paid too much. The problem is the private sector workers are being paid too little. Meanwhile without those public employees how exactly are the public services supposed to get done? By magic wand?

[pscot]

30. I have no solution

I carried mail for 30 years and the union was damned good to me. But this is what's happening out there and talk about how things oughtta be won't get it done. We rail against the corporations but there is no unanimity on that score. The propaganda war the oligarchs have been waging for the last 30 years has been a big success. Right now this country is in an all againt all argument that could easily turn into a brawl. I don't think most people understand what a powerful propaganda counterweight to capitalism the Soviets were. When the USSR collapsed it was Katie bar the door as far as the bosses were concerned. Now the bills are coming due. The Greeks managed a brief general walkout, and acheived nothing. Even that minimal effort is beyond us. We are a cowed and divided people.

[LanternWaste]

50. Much like saying public workers are to be paid less

"Saying that workers need to be paid more is empty rhetoric..."

Much like saying public workers are to be paid less is empty rhetoric. Six of one,m half a dozen of the other... :shrug:

[JackRiddler]

60. Your idea of "reality" begs the question.

The question should be: How long can they be expected to tolerate the owners of capital, who are screwing them directly? Apparently forever, because the only appearance the rich make in your post is as "reality" kicking "our ass."

The right wing strategy: When screwed by the rich, go throw a brick through your neighbor's window.

[readmoreoften]

66. It only begs the question if you don't know the difference between RAISE and LOWER.

If you really give a shit about lowering your taxes, fight to end the wars. That's where your money's going.

[arbusto_baboso]

17. Exactly. When I started working public sector, private sector jobs were better paid.

We public sector people stayed in iur jobs for the benefits and "job security" (which no longer exists anywhere).

I've steadily watched private sector compensation drop in comparison to my job.

But then, government employees are ALWAYS the whipping boys for opportunistic politicians looking to "trim fat". Why don't they start with their own office expenses, I wonder???

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. +1,000,000 Getting people to grouse about public sector being overpaid is just

another trick for getting people to settle for less money. "If $20,000 a year is good enough for me, it ought to be good enough for some government worker!" (When they should be screaming that they deserve as much money as the other workers make.)

[blondeatlast]

63. +1 gazinty-billion. nt

[Johonny]

6. It's almost like good strong unions are a benefit to workers or something

It's funny all my rethug friends want to stick it to the state workers. They are sick of hearing about all their benefits. It never occurs to them maybe if they unionized they'd have better benefits too. Instead they want to drag everyone down to their level. The race to the bottom brought to you by conservatism.

[Starry Messenger]

16. Thank you. n/t

[RobinA]

21. Where Are These

public sector employees who are living high? THAT'S the myth. I am a public sector employee who makes $43,000 with a Masters in a job the requires a Masters. I live in SE PA. I am NOT living high. The only advatage I have is I pay less for medical insurance than some in the private sector. I will have a decent pension - which I pay for at a way higher rate than I ever paid in the private sector. I pay for disabilty insurance completely on my own, it isn't a benefit option. I am 52 years old, have worked my entire life, and have one week vacation, far less than I ever had in the private sector. If the state government closes down for the day because of a blizzard, I still have to be at work because I am "essential." I do have above average job security and a union, so they can't completely screw us. Other than the pathetic vacation, I am not complaining, I know I have it better than a lot of other people. I took this job two years ago because it was union.

I get tired of everybody bitching and moaning about public employees. The really good perks, if they ever existed, only exist for the people who have worked the public sector for a million years. And, I might add, when those peachy benefits came about they were a pay off for truly lousy pay. It is only within the past decade or so that the public sector has been a better deal than the private sector. And for that I have one word UNION. The lesson should be not, let's screww the public sector because at this one point in time they have a moderately better deal, let's take the lesson as - join a freakin' union and have some of your rights preserved.

[newspeak]

64. I've worked for both the state and federal

At one point, I was single with a daughter with no child support working for the federal government. I barely made it-with daycare, food and shelter. Medical was good. I also, at one time, worked for a "right to work" state. Benefits were good, pay not so good. The major newspaper had a front page article, about how many state employees were on food stamps.

Now days, I'm for anyone who can still keep a good job with benefits-and I'm not talking about obscene wages for CEO's.

[City Lights]

7. No. CEOs and top-level management are paid too much.

If they'd take a pay cut there would be much more for the employees below them.

typo edit

[Orlandodem]

8. Maybe those who aren't happy with their compensation in the private sector should

get a job in the public sector! Those who worship at the altar of the private sector said for decades that public employees should get a job in the private sector if they want more pay. Now the shoe is on the other foot for better or for worse. God forbid teachers, police, and the firemen be paid well! Of course, it's not like this group is getting paid well to start with.

[RobinA]

73. This Was My Strategy

I went to the public sector after after 20+ years in the private sector. I got sick of getting screwed, lied to and overlooked because I'm not the brown-noser type. I wanted THEM to have to play by a few rules instead of just me all the time. It was a conscious decision based on the prevailing conditions. So far it has worked pretty well. Got promoted after being here a year, my crappy salary is slightly less crappy than it would be in the private sector, job security is somewhat better, and if I manage to vest I will get a pension. I am certainly not in any worse position. Anybody is welcome to try a public job, rather than beating us up for making a smart decision or just being in the righter place at a rotten time. My move to government was pure self-interested capitalism at work. All rethugs are welcome to do the same. Oh wait... We aren't hiring anymore.

[mariawr]

10. Public Jobs are only good because the manufacturing jobs

that used to outpay the public jobs are gone. I started teaching in 1970 for $7K a year. My friends who went straight to a factory or manufacturing jobs used to laugh at me because they were making double or triple my pay.
Now the corp pigs want to gut the public sector jobs.
We will all be working for temp job pay and no benefits if they have their way.
Fight back. Be heard.

[RobinA]

76. I Remember This

Went to college in the Pittsburgh area. Nobody in their right mind went to college, they went to work in the mill. A few dopes went to college, some became teachers for the privilege of graduating and making $12,000 a year. The times they have a-changed since those days. Those mill workers - working at Sheetz for $10 an hour, those teachers - high five figure salaries.

[Greyhound]

11. This is why you don't need a lid for your bucket when you go crabbing. n/t

[pscot]

35. Bingo

n/t

[jp11]

12. Misery loves company.

"If I can't have mine, you shouldn't have yours." GO AMERIKA!

[Dappleganger]

13. They are receiving decent benefits, appropriate raises and retirement.

Please show me where this is wrong! Just because the private sector is getting away with driving down wages and eroding benefits, why does the public sector have to 'keep up'??

[kctim]

14. It's all about perception

and they bring it upon themselves.

Five people standing around while one fills a pothole. Long lines with one open window while three drink coffee and laugh in the background. Tons of half work days. More holidays off. Absolute terrible attitudes. etc...
And then there is the tons and tons of fraud, waste and abuse.

I don't think they are paid too much, but they sure as hell don't do anything to change the stereotype.

[arbusto_baboso]

22. What bullshit you spout.

I'm pretty damn sure I work more and harder than YOU do.

[kctim]

28. That has NOTHING

to do with what I said.
The perception is that public workers get paid too much for what they do and the very common observations I gave, do NOTHING to change that perception.
I don't give a crap about how much you work or that you think you work harder than me. That is of no concern to me at all. But, the fact of the matter is that people will look right past someone working like you mention and fixate on those working like I mentioned. Especially when they are paying for it.

[left is right]

25. Those 6 guys filling potholes are contracted labor.

Take your resentment up with the private sector boss. The company they worked for probably got the gig from a competitive bid

[pinboy3niner]

29. Thanks for pointing that out

It reminds me of stories from the war zones of private contractors running empty convoys to jack up their bills--something that didn't happen when the military was doing the work.

[kctim]

36. Perception!

I know a guy who does road work. I have picked him up after 16 hour days in the blazing heat and freezing temps. I know what his job is about because I know him and talk with him. Most people do not know somebody as such, so they have no idea what they do and why they do it that way. All they see is 5 guys watching while one guy fills one pothole.

Can you understand that? Its not resentment on my part at all. Its the simple fact that people see such negative examples and base their opinions on them.

[Catshrink]

32. Really?

That's some nice exaggerating you're doing there. Tons and tons of fraud, waste, and abuse? That's RW magical thinking. Tons of half work days? Where? Who? Explain what you're talking about please because I don't see this. I also don't see the one open window/three drinking coffee. More holidays off? Those are mandated by law.

Really. Before spouting RW bullshit, provide some proof.

[kctim]

48. Sigh

Yet another who would rather score political points instead of face the facts.

Yes, fraud waste and abuse and IF you have ever worked in a govt office, you know exactly what they are. EVERY office, private and public, wastes paper and time. EVERY office has people who leave early whenever possible.

The point isn't that only public offices are guilty of such things, it is that taxpayers, THE PEOPLE, are paying for them and therefore actually care because they pay for them.

Its nowhere near RW BS, its fact.

[Catshrink]

54. You sound like a 'bagger.

No, I don't know. I work in a public office, I see no fraud, waste, and abuse. Please don't draw me into your RW magical thinking that there is a huge pile of money to be found. Here's a clue: there is no tooth fairy, no pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, no Santa Claus.

I asked you for proof and you offer hollow charges that "I know." No, I don't know. And that's a RW method. If you want to play that game, you're in the wrong place. Bagger.

[kctim]

55. Yawn

Resorting to name calling is the true sign of having no valid argument. Typical and expected.

Nice to know you work in the ONLY office in the world where there is no fraud waste or abuse though, lol. Talk about believing in Santa.

[proudohioan]

39. "Long lines with one open window while three drink coffee and laugh in the background."

Yes, I've seen that too.....

In grocery stores, the bank, the pharmacy, restaurants, hell, even the doctors office.

As a matter of fact, right at this very moment, I am watching some construction workers (hired by a PRIVATE sector 'employer') sitting under the tree across the street, basically doing nothing. They've been doing this since about 11:15.....

So what's your point?

[kctim]

49. The VERY clear point

is that people may perceive those you mention as having it easy, but they do not care because THEY are not paying for them with their tax dollars. They do however, pay for public workers, so they get upset when they feel their money is being wasted.

[proudohioan]

53. And someone's grocery dollars, bank account dollars, etc....

don't pay for cashiers, tellers, etc...??? I think it's still called a payroll. Whether it's tax dollars or ones' personal money should make no difference.

The very clear point that I heard from you is that the negative public perception is brought on by themselves. Here's a little perspective about perception:

Due to this lovely economic 'downturn', I have had the pleasure of being a cashier in a grocery store for about 2 years. Trust me, our perception of customers is much worse than the general publics perception of 'lazy employees', government or not.

And always remember; you may be whining about standing in line for -GASP!!!- 20 whole minutes. The person waiting on you has already been standing there for 4 hours, and will continue standing there long after you have left.

[kctim]

57. Seriously?

The OP asks IF public employees are paid too much? Now why in the world would it ask that if most people did not believe that to be true?

Please leave emotions and personal opinions out of it and look at what YOU wrote: "Whether it's tax dollars or ones' personal money should make no difference."
Now, instead of arguing with yourself about what you think I said, read what I actually wrote and ask yourself WHY it DOES make a difference? What are some of the things you hear people complain about when they speak of dealing with public offices? What gave them that impression? What can be done to fix the negative perception?

People have no choice in paying taxes and they are more vested in how those dollars are used. If they did not, then the OPs question is not valid.

[proudohioan]

69. No, I don't think public employees are paid too much.

To stick strictly to the topic. But I can't keep my emotions and opinions out of this one, sorry.

What gives people a negative impression is having a bad experience at one time or another at, say DMV, for example. Sure, all of us have had an unpleasant experience, but I'd be willing to bet that for each unpleasant experience at the DMV, there have been 25 unpleasant experiences at a private sector business.

But the big difference here is that sometime back in the early 90's, news stations all across the country had their 'investigative reporter' doing weekly segments on 'waste and fraud' in the public sector. And they manufactured a 'pout-rage' of the week while following road crews and cops around, just waiting for them to slack off on the job. And when they did, GOTCHA!!! The fact that they may not have been slacking off, but rather taking their usual break became irrelevant. We were fed the outrage and by God, we bought it! The media was extremely effective in embedding the image of the fat, lazy cop sitting in the donut shop all day long. And if that weren't bad enough, the media was quick to remind us that those donut and double bacon pork cheeseburger eating cops WERE DOING THIS ALL ON OUR DIME!!! Not only that, but ALL those tax-sucking public sector employees ARE RUDE AND SURLY!!! To US! The one's who PAY THEIR SALARIES, by Gosh!!!! The Nerve!!!

IMO, that's where the perception of waste and fraud started, largely with the M$M. Shame that they never bothered to let us in on all of the REAL waste, fraud and corruption going on. But that's OK, we have the internet now.

In retrospect, I think all of that negative public sector image stuff was intentionally done by 'the bosses' in order to pit worker against worker, resulting in a damaged union, weakened labor force and downward spiraling of wages. It keeps 'the bosses' right where they want us.

By the way, are you at work right now? Just wondering.....



:)

[kctim]

78. Fair enough

As I stated at first, I don't believe they are paid too much either, I just don't think they have taken the negative perception seriously and have totally missed how addressing it may help. People get treated bad at a private business and they can go spend elsewhere, but when treated badly at say the DMV, they have no choice but to come back.

It doesn't matter that we have differing views on where the perception started or why it did. It only matters that the perception is there and needs to be addressed.

Yes, I am at work right now and yes you can say I am wasting company time :) But I only have to answer to 3 bosses, not hundreds of millions :)

[proudohioan]

81. Fair enough. n/t

[RobinA]

77. Tons Of Half Days?

I've been had. I never have had a half day in two years. Got the same holidays as everybody, and worse vacation then any job I ever had. There may be waste. Somewhere. It gets made up for by the amount of their own money the employees spend just to do their jobs.

[kctim]

80. Eh, then we are even

I never spent any of my own money to do the job and I got plenty of half days. Gotta love those "training" days. Free coffee, donuts and a long lunch. Training thru breaks to leave right after lunch. Cramming 3 days into 2 1/2.
NO, it is not the norm. YES, it happens in the private sector also. That is not the point though. The taxpayers perception is that ALL public workers have a sweet deal, that they can be rude without worry of being fired, and that tax dollars are paying for it. Call it resentment, call it envy, IMO, there would be less negative perception if they worked on it some.

[Spike89]

86. Just silly

They are not bringing it on themselves. Those are a combination of stale stereotypes and catch-22 gotcha anecdotes. The vast majority of work crews in most places aren't even public sector--they are contractors hired by the state. Besides, working with asphalt in hot weather (when almost all road work is done) is simply not something you can or should attempt to do without frequent breaks. Even if you believe they need no breaks, do you have any idea how many workers get hit by cars and just how important having spotters might be? Geez.

Your second point is no less silly. You don't know those people or what their jobs are. The catch-22 is simple--build a public break room and you've coddled the government workers, put them in an open, unadorned cube farm and make them take their coffee breaks in the hallway and someone will call you a slacker. Not everyone everywhere in the public sector is responsible (or even able) to run a customer service window.

There isn't a public services department in this entire state (OR) that hasn't had to cut back drastically on staffing, even in the face of increased demand. They are not bringing it on themselves.

[kctim]

94. Please read what I have written

I stated they were stereotypes and shared that I do in fact know members of road crews. I know how hard the work is and I respect the safety risks they endure. I say they bring it on themselves because I believe a more conscious effort should be made to prove the negative perceptions wrong.

Contractors HIRED by the state are still being paid with taxpayer dollars.

The is no catch-22, just common sense. Simple things like cutting a break short when the line gets too long, would go a long way. If you are not responsible enough, or even able to, work with the public, then you should not be in that position. Most people don't bitch much when they wait in line and are then treated well, but they go through the roof when they wait and are treated like crap.

Staffing cuts are not a reason to promote or ignore the negative perceptions. Doing that will only continue the "do public employees make too much" questions the OP asks.

[bigdarryl]

18. I am a State Correction Officer for NJ I'm making 80,000 a year

but its a dangerous job that 30 years ago no one wanted to do but most state workers are not highly paid my sister who works in Governor (crispy cream) Christy office as a secretary only makes 31,000 a year and thats working for the state for 9 years

[pscot]

37. Apparently your gov

got into a yelling match with a teacher. It was taped and is on Youtube, and now he's famous. Unfortunately it isn't just the Repukes pushing this.

[Deep13]

19. No. CEOs and trust fund brats are. nt

[David__77]

20. In many, many cases, public workers make less than their private counterparts.

The media and others try to whip up resentment against public worker pensions, etc., but the fact is that many public workers make a conscious choice to make less in wages and more in benefits in terms of compensation. It's less risk, but lower salary. For instance, a plumber or electrician working for a public agency will make relatively low wages usually, but have a great pension in many cases. Same thing with lawyers, accountants, etc.

[ejpoeta]

23. i don't know but they were doing a thing this morning about teachers wages in the area...

going on an average for different districts. the problem is that an average is just that.... some make more and some less. now who are you including in this average? because the teachers are probably making less than administrators or higher ups. i think these stories do a disservice to regular public employees as well as teachers. trying to make it sound like they are making out like bandits while the rest of us are drowning. when that is not generally the case.

[Bonhomme Richard]

24. It's not that public employees are paid more but that the rest of us.....

are being paid less. They are very wealthy unfinished business of squeezing the last drops out of the middle class.

[pscot]

38. Yes

n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. Depends

There are some funky things going on locally--keep in mind this is a right-wing county--and the strangeness is in the pension funds. It looks like they're doing it for hazard pay because the local agency has been caught in a lot of corrupt things lately.

[JHB]

27. Public sector workers are doing "a lot better" (debatable) because...

...their employers (local, state, fed governments) generally haven't actively worked to destroy their unions the way the private sector has.

Private companies have paid union-breaking law firms to disrupt union organizing, they have used reorganization and bankruptcy as tools for breaking union contracts, they regularly require workers to watch anti-union propaganda as "training", etc.

Now that public sector unions are nearly the last ones standing, they get the bulls-eye painted on them, all the better to not put it on the 1%-ers siphoning off the wealth of the nation.

[Hannah Bell]

31. NO. The people dreaming up these attack-the-workers talking points are paid too much.

in fact, they should all be unemployed & i hope they will be soon.

[laughingliberal]

44. +10,000,000,000 eom

[readmoreoften]

67. +10,000,000

[leftstreet]

74. +10 gazillion

[madfloridian]

33. Mitch Daniels called Jeb to Indiana to use his version of school privatization.

I think that says a lot about his comment.

Actually Jeb is quite happy with the new administration's plans for education.

Forgot all those public school teachers...they plan to hire cheaper teachers.

The talking points here are getting pretty obvious, and pretty doggone deep.

[pscot]

40. I posted this as a point of information

not to catapult the propaganda. I think this is going to gain momentum and people need to be aware of what's going on. It isn't going to go away.

[madfloridian]

Right you are. It's just about over.

And that is tragic.

[left is right]

88. IIRC, Circuit City thought they could get rid of their higher paid/more knowledgeable sales staff

They got exactly what they paid for and went out of business within two years. I don’t want to imagine the state of public education when all of these school boards go to minimum wage teachers. How will a minimum wage worker manage to pay for all those supplies that now come out of the pocket of teachers

[madfloridian]

34. Let's bust more unions? Almost done now, aren't we?

Our unions are all nearly busted now...they gave us a middle class that was strong.

Now DU is becoming more anti-union by the day. And our middle class is disappearing.

[KamaAina]

43. One-quarter of all union workers are teachers

as you or someone pointed out the other day.

[madfloridian]

45. Well, read more of what I wrote. They are getting the heave-ho ...

so new non union teachers can take their place.

Cheaper teachers.

[KamaAina]

47. "Would you like fries with that multiplication table?"

Hoo boy.

[Voltaire]

41. This public worker says

HELL NO! Come to Indiana and see what slave wages we get. We don't get paid shit and have not had a raise on the shit we don't get paid in the last 3 or 4 years. A failed economy and a GOPvernor who blames state employees for all the ills of the world anyway, will do that.

I am ALWAYS incensed at the insinuation that we get paid too much. Nobody in our line of work gets paid ENOUGH to have to deal with the ignorant American public.

[laughingliberal]

42. No, they are not. Benefits are good but pay is mediocre. nt

[county worker]

46. As county government worker I can say this.

If we have better benefits and salaries it's because so far our unions and pensions haven't been destroyed like in the private sector. I would like to see all of us in unions getting better pay and benefits. If you kill our unions and pensions then there will be no benchmark to mark the growth of the union movement. The labor movement would be dead and no one would ever organize again.

We are not filing open positions, laying off, taking unpaid furloughs and no salary increases because of the budget crunch.

[musiclawyer]

52. The premise of this post so wrong on so many levels

" you may feel some resentment toward your neighbor, who works for the city and is still living high."

I work for a county had that 800 employees three years ago. You think the 250 that are no longer working here are living high. You call getting unemployment living high? For those left, the median salary is about 40K. In California. Five people make more than 100K. In California. When you swap out those with direct counterparts in the private sector workforce--legal secretaries, payroll managers, IT service techs, etc ---------the private sector salaries BLOW AWAY public sector. It's a flat out lie that government pays better that private. What government does do is compensate for the lower salaries is pay pensions that are guaranteed by the contract clause. That some pensions are excessive, especially fire and law enforcement, is a problem that can be fixed at the ballot box. But for the most part public pensions are not anything to brag about. And those that get pensions that exceed 50% of final salary are people who worked for decades to serve the public, for better or worse.

[kenny blankenship]

56. YES!!! The downward spiral of collapsing wages isn't falling fast enough to please me!

Make ALL those working slobs pay back the money they stole from their employers by working for them. So long as government workers still make enough money to live a "middle class life", labor pricing in the private sector has still not been trimmed down to maximum efficiency. 100% unacceptable and unAmerican!

How can we have a FREE MARKET when consumer demand, such as it is, is being artificially propped up by paying public sector employees these inflated wages? Where is the freedom in that arrangement? Why it's Socialist Nazi Communist Bolshevist Unitarian Syndicalism I tells ya, and nothing but!

[laughingliberal]

93. +1000 nt

[MadHound]

58. No, they're not,

However they are demonized because the media and such are whipping up hatred against them. Why, because they are the last bastion of unions, and the corporatacracy won't rest until unions are completely destroyed.

But to say that a teacher, whose starting wage is around thirty thousand dollars, makes too much is simply absurd.

[JackRiddler]

59. No, obviously. Private sector is not paid enough...

Where do you think Walmart would prefer to locate their next store: in a town full of DMV workers, or in a town full of Walmart workers.

Yeah, the ironies.

A better question: Does DU have enough posts waging class war for the rich?

[ParkieDem]

61. Some are, some aren't

It never helps to paint with a broad brush, whether it's a statement like "all CEOs are paid too much" or "all government workers are paid too much" or "all government workers are lazy."

I think the "resentment," if you call it that, stems from a perception that government workers don't appreciate the taxpayers who are providing their salaries and benefits. There is also a perceived mentality of "entitlement" among public sector workers. Whether or not these perceptions are accurate is another question, but I think that's what drives it. This clip provides an example: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/public-employee-of-the-year/1222306/

I do not have a problem with government workers per se, as I believe most of them are necessary, do good work and are proud of their jobs. However, I have seen first-hand some of the abuses that the SNL clip makes fun of. This drives a perception of government workers "gaming the system" to take advantage of taxpayers.

Here in Dallas, another example comes from a recent "credit card" scandal at the school district. Apparently, the school district issued credit cards to teachers, administrators, secretaries, etc. with which to buy extra supplies, teaching aids, etc. The cards were rampantly abused, with some being used to purchase tens of thousands of dollars in high-end electronics and other "luxury" items. After the abuse came to light, the district spent thousands on an audit, and ended up punishing a very small handful of abusers.

Now, at my private sector job, I have a corporate credit card, but I hold primary responsibility for getting it paid. I, not the company, get a hit on my credit rating if I go bananas with the thing. I have no idea why government credit cards don't work that way, but they should.

[ParkieDem]

62. Some are, some aren't

It never helps to paint with a broad brush, whether it's a statement like "all CEOs are paid too much" or "all government workers are paid too much" or "all government workers are lazy."

I think the "resentment," if you call it that, stems from a perception that government workers don't appreciate the taxpayers who are providing their salaries and benefits. There is also a perceived mentality of "entitlement" among public sector workers. Whether or not these perceptions are accurate is another question, but I think that's what drives it. This clip provides an example: <http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/public-employee-of-the-year/1222306/>

I do not have a problem with government workers per se, as I believe most of them are necessary, do good work and are proud of their jobs. However, I have seen first-hand some of the abuses that the SNL clip makes fun of. This drives a perception of government workers "gaming the system" to take advantage of taxpayers.

Here in Dallas, another example comes from a recent "credit card" scandal at the school district. Apparently, the school district issued credit cards to teachers, administrators, secretaries, etc. with which to buy extra supplies, teaching aids, etc. The cards were rampantly abused, with some being used to purchase tens of thousands of dollars in high-end electronics and other "luxury" items. After the abuse came to light, the district spent thousands on an audit, and ended up punishing a very small handful of abusers.

Now, at my private sector job, I have a corporate credit card, but I hold primary responsibility for getting it paid. I, not the company, get a hit on my credit rating if I go bananas with the thing. I have no idea why government credit cards don't work that way, but they should.

[readmoreoften]

65. I think you should be banned for your anti-worker, anti-solidarity, pro-Republican post.

We don't need concern trolls racing the American worker to the bottom. Should private employee's wages been lowered during the 90s? That's an idiotic comment that only management can love.

[jp11]

71. You are aware that someone can put themselves in another person's shoes, called empathy and

understanding in order to gain an insight into why they might feel the way they feel without actually feeling or thinking the same thing?

[primavera]

68. OMFG, if that isn't hypocrisy!

We live in a country where the gap between the rich and the poor has expanded to the unprecedented point where 90% of the wealth is now owned by the richest 10% of the population, and we're worried that public sector employees constitute a "privileged class"?! I guarantee, no public employee anywhere gets paid $50 million bonuses.

[proudohioan]

72. Thank you for making sense!

But shit like this sure serves to distract some of us from your very valuable point!

[JerseygirlCT]

70. Some are, some are not

There's not one answer to that question.

[Ardent15]

75. Take this RW bullshit somewhere else please

[Chisox08]

79. No!

I guess I'm biased because both of my parents are public employees. The only ones that are over paid is the higher ups. In Chicago, a couple of years ago, the Mayor and the Alderman voted themselves raises at the same time the were laying off city employees because they needed to make budget cuts.

[Terry in Austin]

82. Caveats about Politico

They try to look hip and claim to be non-partisan, but it's pretty much of a pose. Not hard to see their slant in this bit of analysis.

Owners are the Allbritton family -- big in Texas and national Republican power circles.

More on Politico here (from a truly liberal rag!).

[old mark]

83. Public workers are a perpetual target for politicians. In my state (PA)

public civil service workers have NO LEGAL RIGHT to engage in political activity other than voting. We had NO RIGHT to organize against any politician or group that was vilifying us in any way. We wwere handy whipping boys for every overpaid elected political asshole with nothing better to do on any given day.

Many civil service or other public jobs are terrible - you still see abuses of workers that would not be tolerated by unions in private industry. Many states are perpetually engaged in lawsuits by former employees who were injured on the job and have no other recourse. I was a Steward for several years and personally involved in giving written testimony for several such lawsuits. 5 years ago, I spoke to a lawyer who does nothing but represent public employees against government agencies. He was so busy he would not even discuss taking another case fro our hospital.

Public employees are NOT overpaid, our unions have no-strike and peace at any price contracts that give management a loophole to do whatever they want. And we have NO LEGAL RIGHT to get political recourse - we could be terminated if we were to even write a letter in protest.

mark

[donco6]

84. Yeah, us school folk are paid way too much.

We're catching up too fast on those Wall Street types.

[lovuian]

85. I want their healthcare insurance

and benefits
They are a Union
and all americans should get what they do

[donco6]

87. I was hoping for Single Payer so that would come true.

Everyone should have health care. Period.

[left is right]

89. I really don’t know why I keep hearing this

the only advantage I have with insurance is that I have a choice—some policies are better than others. If I choose a policy that isn’t as good as another, I have open season when I can get out of one and join another. But I pay more for my BCBS than my daughter does and her BCBS actually pays better for prescriptions and labs. We both have the same copay

[joe black]

90. No

Privat employees are paid too little.

[Mimosa]

91. Gov admins are paid way too much at state and fed level

Gov employees have more job security than private sector workers. They have better health care and pensions during a time when private sector has dispensed paying pensions.

I have gov employees -including YUK! FEMA- among my inlaws. They used to go to fancy schmancy seminars including one at Disneyworld before Katrina.

Gov administrative salaries have broken the budgets in tthe states and at Fed level.

[laughingliberal]

92. I see. We're having Reagan appreciation day on DU, again. nt

[hobbit709]

95. A few years back the City of Austin decided to merge 3 maintenance departments

into one. They got rid of 2/3 of the workers but didn't get rid of a SINGLE administrator.