Corporate fascism is now the dominant force in The United States of America agree/disagree

[bobthedrummer]

Poll question: Corporate fascism is now the dominant force in The United States of America agree/disagree

No other options in this simple, meaningless DU poll-as always your comments are welcomed

[ret5hd]

1. Other than the redundancy inherent in the term "corporate fascism"

i agree completely.

[bobthedrummer]

2. this is my kick for today for this poll, keep it going until tomorrow DU

[Octafish]

3. Corporations are people, too.

Immortals.

PS: Great to read you, bobthedrummer. WTF you been, Reseda?

[mix]

4. Disagree.

Fascism is ultra-nationalist, corporations are private entities in pursuit of profit alone with no allegiance to any nation.

There are "fascist" tendencies in American society, the teabaggers for example, but the dominant force is corporate neoliberalism, or the surrending of life to market forces.

[MadHound]

5. The thing about facism is that it is also a melding of the corporate and government

Into a single entity. Thus, I'd say that given the way corporations are intertwined with our government, yes, it is a fascist relationship.

[mix]

6. The "corporations" that Mussolini and Hitler organized society around

were not the neoliberal corporations of today...they were traditional collective bodies like the church or even unions. They were also newer creations like Youth Leagues.

Fascism could never tolerate the independence and for-profit objectives of today's capitalist corporations. They would have to be brought under the control of the state or party, which both claim to embody the people or nation.

The "corporatist state" of fascism is quite different from the corporatism we suffer today.

[MadHound]

20. Umm, the corporations that Germany and Italy organized around were much the same

Economic and business interests as today, corporations like IG Farbin, Thyssen, etc. Yes, they were brought under the control of the state, they essentially became part of the state, again, similar to what is going on today.

[closeupready]

23. Scary when you consider how oversight of the Gulf Gusher has been outsourced,

much (all?) of the travel security infrastructure is privatized, etc.

[mix]

31. No, it's the contrary to what is happening now.

Under fascism, the economic corporation, ie large businesses, became a part of the state...under neoliberal capitalism, the state becomes an instrument of the corporation.

The fascist corporatist state consisted of more than just businesses. In current usage, "corporation" has a strict economic meaning...in the 20s and 30s, it had a much broader definition.

To assume that the fascists used the term "corporation" as we do is simply mistaken.

[reggie the dog]

55. in the old days the leaders of the contries pulled the strings

today the corporations pull the strings

[glitch]

58. With our revolving door they are the same people*

*See Bush/Cheney

[Better Believe It]

13. It's much, much more than that. It a mass movement that controls the streets and

physically destroys labor unions and all other mass and progressive organizations and political parties.

[MadHound]

22. Yes, thank you, I know that,

I just spent the last two years doing research on fascism, I'm fully aware of what it does and does not entail. Do you want me to get out my copy of Alfredo Rocco and start quoting?

I was simply pointing out to the poster whom I answered their error regarding the relationship between government and corporations. I recognize that there many other components to fascism, perhaps you want Umberto Eco's full definition?

[Better Believe It]

40. If you haven't you might want to read Trotsky's writings on fascism.

He clearly explained how and why Hitler was able to achieve power in Germany even over the opposition of mass German radical parties, the Social Democrats and Communist parties.

You may not agree with most of his politics but Trotksy sure nailed what went wrong in Germany that allowed Hitler to take power.

Here's a link I just found on the internet that describes and provides a collection of his writings on fascism.

I haven't read most of the material but perhaps I should.

The link:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/index.htm

[mod mom]

7. 14 Characteristics of Fascism:

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

[mix]

10. And what does this list suggest, in your view? nt

[mod mom]

45. It suggests that there is a push toward fascism in this country....

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

Supremacy of the Military

Rampant Sexism


Controlled Mass Media

Obsession with National Security

Religion and Government are Intertwined

Corporate Power is Protected

Labor Power is Suppressed

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

Fraudulent Elections


kinda defines the republican party doesn't it?

[mix]

50. The problem with that "list" is that it could also apply

to pre-WWI states like Great Britain and France.

Your list is too general.

[proudohioan]

24. That list isn't very comforting, mod mom....

Not very comforting at all.

:scared:

[mod mom]

46. Well that last characteristic is what brought me to DU in the 1st place.

If you're from Ohio then my guess is you've noticed it as well. :hi:

[proudohioan]

51. Yes, I know what you mean....

I always do the absentee ballot after the Bush theft. At least there's a paper trail, anyhow! :hi:

[backscatter712]

9. Agree with this. Corporate neoliberalism is the problem, not classic fascism... yet.

The word fascism gets thrown around way too much, sometime by us, but most often by the right-wingers, especially demagogues like Glenn Beck.

But as far as real fascism goes, we're not there yet. But we're a lot closer than we should be.

Yes, there are fascist tendencies at work, as seen with the teabaggers - they've got the palingenetic, ultranationalist populism.

The scary part is that the teabagger movement came together when corporate interests, in the form of Dick Armey's FreedomWorks, began supporting the proto-fascists by jumpstarting the movement with some astroturfing, providing money, media attention, organization. That made the movement grow and metastasize.

Fascism really grows when it's got support from the rich elites - it grows from a few fringies ranting and raving in basements to full-sized authoritarian political movements when the back-scratching arrangement is in place. When the corporate elites start funding and boosting the proto-fascists, naturally, the proto-fascists will reciprocate by giving them goodies as the movement grows, and that's when the movement really gets dangerous.

[mix]

14. Economic elites were key actors in the rise of fascism, but they

were historically subsumed by the state and party.

Labelling everything "fascist" that is reprehensible and unjust in American society distracts us from the particular problems we face, which are due to corporate capitalism.

[backscatter712]

47. Good points...

Though I still say that the economic elites didn't mind being subsumed by the state and party when fascism really took off, because they got lots of goodies in the process. Fascism (I mean the classic fascism, attempting to cast away the popular abuse of the term) tended to have a lot of corruption and cronyism.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

63. I find myself agreeing with your explanaitons

for what that's worth, being that I'm not a professor or working in any influential capacity.....


just your average schmuck, I guess :P who likes to think.

So, anyway, I'm thinking that the next critical step stemming from nailing down definitions would be considering what the best personal and public actions would be. Or, to put it another way: OK, so with some understanding under our belts, WHAT do we do NOW?

[dchill]

25. They are, then, fascists...

The ultra-nation is them - the super-citizens with super rights given them by the super-Supreme Court.
I rest my case.

[mix]

38. "Super-citizens" are more the result of class differences inherent in capitalist societies.

In fact, those "super-citizens" go where the money goes with little heed to nationalist sentiments.

[dchill]

49. As is pretty much the case...

with all so-called "nationalism."

[NoGOPZone]

8. Disagree with 'is now', should be 'has long been' nt

[blindpig]

11. Why don't you just call it Capitalism?

Capitalism has always been the dominant force in this country, that it is so recklessly rapacious here of late is a function of history and the ever increasing crisis of capitalism itself.

[upi402]

17. Capitalism is gone, watch Dylan Ratigan on MSNBC

I love how he explains it. And how he went to MSNBC from CNBC to try to restore healthy democratic capitalism. Watching him rant about how it's been taken over and corrupted is edifying.

We don't have a democracy responding to the will of the people. We have a Plutocracy. There is no opposition party that can oppose it. I hope you were joking and just didn't bother adding the :rolls eyes:

[readmoreoften]

18. No, it's just late capitalism. The idea that capitalism is inherently democratic is ridiculous.

Capitalism began in the 16th century under kings and tyrants. Burghers gained power because they had access to objects that kings did not and eventually overthrew them in bourgeois (from Burgher) revolutions. Capitalists have always been mixed on authoritarian regimes--most use them to procure cheap labor, but if they could procure cheap labor without them, they'd rather not have them.

It's still capitalism. It's just later on in the game of Monopoly.

[upi402]

19. Hence, unions!

In democratic capitalism, unions are the mechanic to balance the authoritarian and ruthless nature of capitalism. Reagan's Secretary of State, George Shultz, admitted as much.

Unions have been neutered in this plutocracy and democratic capitalism IS over. And unions are weakened to a point of non-compete vis-a-vis corporatism and control of the US government.

We are nearing a Medici capitalism but the family is crime, and not blood.

Did someone claim capitalism was inherently democratic, or did you make a bit of a leap there? :toast:

[blindpig]

21. Nonsense

All of these people saying it's this kind of capitalism or that kind of capitalism are full of dingo kidneys, it's just capitalism. For a short period of time capitalism was reigned in after it's last great debacle, the Great Depression. As soon as the danger to capitalism had passed it began regaining it's old prerogatives and here we are.

No joking, I'm serious as a heart attack.

Oh yeah, blow up your TV.

[inna]

29. Agreed, and the main reason capitalism was temporarily reigned in

was the fear of socialist revolution.

For the same reason, capitalism in Europe still has "a human face" (social safety systems, etc.), but that is becoming less and less the case.

As for the US, capitalism has shown its true face, and it's only a question of time when the majority of the populace will see that face for what it really is.... (see image below)

[Odin2005]

33. Democratic Capitalism is an oxymoron

[Better Believe It]

12. No. If we had fascism you wouldn't be posting here. At best, you'd be at some internment camp.

The word fascism is used so often and so loosely to describe anything right-wing that it is loosing all meaning.

It's sort of like a cuss word.

Because fascism and its various forms and history are not studied by most who like to throw around that term, we may not figure out how to fight it when the real thing manifests itself.

If you keep crying wolf who will pay attention when the real wolf shows up?

[MadHound]

27. I believe that the point is to warn people that we are indeed approaching a fascist state

Which is exactly where this country is headed. Fascist Germany, fascist Italy did not spring up overnight, in many ways both Hitler and Mussolini simply took control of many free floating fascist elements that were already present in their respective countries and made them their own.

One of the bigger indicators of an oncoming fascist state is the melding of the corporate and government entities into one. Another is creeping, militant nationalism, another is the creation of a demonized other, is any of this starting to sound familiar?

No, we're not a fully fascist state yet, but we are certainly well down that road. Wake up before it is too late.

[Xicano]

28. You do realize that nazism isn't the only brand of fascism, right?

n/t

[Better Believe It]

41. Of course. We have two other examples from Europe that won power but none here.

We've had legitimate fascist movements in the United States such as the silver shirts.

[Odin2005]

36. With the corporate media brainwashing most Americans a true Police State is obsolete.

Us tiny minority of aware dissidents are no threat to them because everyone else is brainwashed by corporate propaganda. Look at how the MSM goes gaga over a couple hundred Teabaggers while completely ignoring Progressive demonstrations with tens of thousands of people. The classical Police State is unnecessary when you can directly manipulate how people think. Read some stuff by George Lakoff. Nearly all Americans live in a false reality manufactured by the corporate elite.

[glitch]

59. That's only when propaganda fails.

What if right now is not an early point in the story but a later one when the town stopped believing the cries and the boy got eaten?

What makes you think Fascism has to be identical to previous incarnations and can't adapt to new information and technologies? Television wasn't even invented in the earlier manifestations, they had to rely on newspapers, newsreels and flyers, not 4 hours/day (per person average use) of TV conveniently in almost every home. The RW obviously believe it's a powerful tool or they wouldn't have spent billions acquiring it and they certainly wouldn't operate it as a loss leader (Glenn Beck prime example).

[aquart]

15. What is this? Hysteria? How utterly pointless.

[upi402]

16. 11% Disagree? n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. chemtrails

[Catherina]

44. Hi Fructose Porn Syrup n/t

[merkins]

30. K&R!

[Odin2005]

32. It has been since 1980.

[Ardent15]

34. Corporate welfare and corporate warfare

Both foreign and domestic.

Recommended.

[sendero]

35. Of course it is..

.... and now the illusion that only the other party was under it's influence is shattered as well.

[gleaner]

37. I agree. K&R n/t

[Quantess]

39. And it's only getting worse.

[Kablooie]

42. I wonder how the Freepers would respond to this?

[Mrdie]

52. "Fascism? More like.... SOCIALISM!"

To most of them fascism and socialism are the same thing, so they'd probably vote "Yes," but only because Obama's in charge.

[Echo In Light]

65. Trivialize & deny in lock step

[Obamaknowzz]

66. The Alex Jones group would agree we are a fascist state. Along with

alot of the Ron Paulites. I'd like to know what Rand Paul thinks about it.

Alex Jones actually holds the fascists feet to the fire and points out bipartisan nature of neoliberalism. He recently attacked Gingrich, Norquist bunch for not protesting the Iraq War after the latter acknowledged it was a "mistake".

The problem with the Right here is they have no alternative to the status quo except blather about "free enterprise" which is a utopian fantasy wrapped in a false sense of history.

[TTUBatfan2008]

43. Is the Pope a Catholic?

Does a bear shit in the woods? You know the drill...

[Mira]

48. My vote was yes

and I am glad to see you. I have missed you, but it could be my oversight.

[TexasObserver]

53. Agree

[reggie the dog]

54. it has been the case for years

[H2O Man]

56. Agree.

Recommended.

[DailyGrind51]

57. The fact that a company can detain and debrief rescued workers from an oil rig diaster against their

will proves it! Let's not allow them to get back to their families who are worried sick about them, no, we have to make sure they sign releases and don't say anything to the press!:grr:

[glitch]

60. They should have been charged with false imprisonment for that.

The fact that they weren't, and that some people even here take is as a matter of course,
speaks volumes.

[Octafish]

64. BP and Transocean made survivors provide urine samples...

...Their strategy is to blame the victim.

After a long voyage — punctuated by two stops at offshore facilities for medical supplies, water and “tobacco products” — the vessel carrying the survivors arrived in Port Fourchon, La., at 1:27 a.m. April 22. Officials of Transocean, which owned and operated the Deepwater Horizon, and BP, which leased it, immediately required urine tests of survivors, he said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/7000866.html

[femrap]

61. Ike tried to warn us....

the Military-Industrial-CONGRESSIONAL Complex.

He left out 'Congressional' from his speech....but it was there in the originals.

Every one of the 435 Congressional Districts contain a piece of the war machine.

[femrap]

62. Ike tried to warn us....

the Military-Industrial-CONGRESSIONAL Complex.

He left out 'Congressional' from his speech....but it was there in the originals.

Every one of the 435 Congressional Districts contain a piece of the war machine.

[bobthedrummer]

67. As promised yesterday, one kick for today...