OK, I get it. You hate Obama.

[KonaKane]

Yes, I can see that in thread after thread. So here is my honest, sincere question.

Who do you see as a viable alternative to run in 2012, in order to keep the executive branch in Democratic hands? I'm not talking about your personal warm fuzzy favorite, I'm talking about someone who can actually win against, say, Sarah Palin (who, regardless of the fact that I cannot stand her, has a huge and loyal following)? Seriously, folks, who is your sensible, winning alternative if you have lost all faith and hope in Obama?

OK.....go.

[lamp_shade]

1. Many here would say Kucinich

[AnArmyVeteran]

21. Ok, I like your gif. How can I get one!!! That's how I feel right now!

[lamp_shade]

35. Copy&paste the picture or right-click and copy&paste the .gif in properties.

[AnArmyVeteran]

64. Thanks! I have a mac, but I did copy and paste it. But it won't paste on DU...

[immoderate]

103. You can't paste pictures into DU.

You have post them to the web somewhere (like PhotoBucket.com) and then put the URL into your post.

--imm

[lunatica]

104. Go to Photobucket.com and create an account

You can upload the gif from your desktop. And you can start your own gif library. Once the gif is in your photobucket account you have four choices to copy when you roll your mouse over the gif. I always copy the second choice and paste it in your post. While you're in edit you'll just see a html link. Try previewing your post and you'll see the gif.

Then you can go looking for them through google. Look for gifs or emoticons which you can drag onto your computer desktop.

[AnArmyVeteran]

120. Oh thanks, I have photobucket but didn't know it would take animated gifs.

[mzteris]

110. he's a great guy -

but enough already - he'll never, ever be elected President. People should just accept him for what he can do and move on from their dream.

I'm not saying I wouldn't vote for him, not saying a lot of DU'ers wouldn't vote for him, but not enough people WOULD vote for him to be elected.

[DJ13]

2. Dont mistake dissapointment for hate

Its not people's fault if they express their upset with some of his decisions.

[pnwmom]

3. Some here opposed Obama in the primaries and have done nothing but complain

about him since.

[DJ13]

11. Sure, but a lot of those posting things critical of him voted for him as well

The blanket condemnation of them as "haters" doesnt change the fact that Obama hasnt been as solidly progressive as he was advertised while running for the office.

[NNN0LHI]

86. How do you know that with us being on anonymous website?

You don't have any suspicions that we might have some died in the wool Larouchies along with some other assorted nuts running around here? On anonymous website?

Don

[DJ13]

91. If they have a decent # of posts

I doubt they would be Freepers or LaRouche people, as those folks tend to burn out here early in their posting life.

[NNN0LHI]

99. Au contraire

I have seen posters with tens of thousands of posts and who had been here almost as long as myself finally show their true selves and get Tomb stoned here. Plenty of them.

Some who I had suspected were Larouchies or other goof balls for years before the hammer finally came down. Others I had no clue.

Don

[David Zephyr]

4. Actually, this earlier critic of Obama from the Left (me) thinks he's been moving leftward of late.

I think the President learned a hard lesson in 2009: you can't play ball with the GOP.

KonaKane, it is the rightwing that hates (your word) Obama.

There's disappointment on the Left regarding Obama, but that's not hate.

Over all, I'm impressed with his leadership these past months and glad to see he's learned you can't appease those on the right who truly hate him.

I don't think any DU'er hates Obama.

[noamnety]

5. Are you seriously concerned that Sarah Palin will be elected president?

You might want to try a different threat if you're hoping to scare people into shutting up when they disapprove of Obama's decisions. Palin's not going to be president.

[KonaKane]

12. I swore up and down in 1999 that GWB would never be elected.

I was totally convinced. There was no way this dimwitted, C- student, step-on-his-own-tongue ex governor was actually going to be elected president over Al Gore, who was superior in every way.

As often she does, America proved me wrong.

I think it would be a historically proven fatal mistake to think it's impossible for this nation to elect another disaster. Doing so would be to our peril.

[The_Commonist]

42. Really? I knew the minute that Dubya announced...

...his candidacy that he would be the next president. And I knew he was going to steal it. And I knew that he would do a sucky job. Luckily, I also know that Sarah Palin will never be president. Somehow...

[KonaKane]

50. I really, REALLY hope you are right.

But given America's penchant for doing the unimaginable on voting day, I'm jittery.

[noamnety]

52. If the fear that Palin will be elected is what keeps you up at night

we are at very different start points when it comes to our fears.

Mine: That the country is shifting more and more to the right, that positions which were formerly held by republicans are now the safe positions for democrats to hold. That we will treat anti-war candidates as unelectable. That we will treat the most basic of women's rights or gay rights or judicial rights as a good thing to have - so we can bargain them away to win the next election. That the democrats will not be willing to make the decisions we need to make to protect the environment, and our food and water will be contaminated beyond repair - as it is in much of the world already - because to do what's right would require a vote against corporate profits.

This is a more believable scenario in that it's already in progress. And this, too, is fatal.

[KonaKane]

55. Do you see the Democratic Left as the only viable countersink right now

to this rightward shift, which I agree, is happening? If not, what other entity can possibly and effectively fill that part of the balance of power?

[noamnety]

68. I don't see the democrats as a countersink at all.

They ARE the rightward shift. The teabaggers are half of it, the democrats are the other half. That's not a countersink.

Let's say you are making bread and you see the dough is too wet. You've already used up all the flour, salt and yeast in the house. The only things you have left to pick from to try to fix it are water or evaporated milk. Both of them are going to make it wetter. If I have to pick one, I guess I'd go with the evaporated milk, it's obviously less pure liquid than the water, sure. Nobody would argue that point. But I'm not going to pretend it's going to help make the dough better.

[KonaKane]

74. OK, so what's our viable solution? Who or what has the power to

counteract the swing to the right? Is there one? Are we basically fucked?

[Scuba]

65. You were right....

...Dubya was NOT elected President. The Supreme Court stacked by his Daddy and his Daddy's mentor gave him the job.

[deutsey]

105. Thank you.

It surprises me that even DU'ers can often overlook that fact.

[bobbolink]

6. .

[Stinky The Clown]

7. I am unrecommending your thread for its pointlessness.

[Faygo Kid]

70. That's fair. I agree.

Stinky, you sometimes nail it. This is one of those times.

[William Z. Foster]

8. no one hates Obama

Why keep fanning these flames?

People are disappointed and people are critical. They don't "hate Obama."

Palin is an irrelevant distraction. Comparing the president to Palin does him a worse disservice than all of the criticism and dissent could ever do to him.

Stop obsessing over partisan electoral politics. That is not where social and political change ever has come from or ever will.

The issue and the debate is this - are we more likely to stop the right wing agenda if we move to the left, or to the right? The people in power in the party and the government think moving to the right is the answer to that question (if we are going to be very charitable, that is.) If they are wrong about that, and fail, that is not the fault of those of us who think moving to the left would be the way to stop the right wing.

If the Democrats and the administration were moving to the left, there would be no "Palin" nonsense.

The only way the Democrats will ever move to the left, or take the side of the working people and the poor people (90% of the population, though here we have a disproportionate representation of owners, landlords, investors, bosses and spokespeople for the rulers here) is if they are pressured to do so. Saying "don't pressure the Dems or we will have Palin" is ironically the one thing that keeps Palin alive and gives those people a chance to gain power.

[Scuba]

69. +1

[nosmokes]

9. yeah, cos if we had a rep in the oval orifice we would still be engaged in

two absolutely pointless wars wasting lives and treasure and selling out our environment to corporate interests for pennies on the dollar and turning our country into a plutocratic playground for the wealthy and well connected.Oh, wait a second...

[Starry Messenger]

10. I can barely see the strawman behind the broad-brush.

Either way, a whole lotta fiber in this OP.

[Ozymanithrax]

13. The word hate is misused...

There are many disaponted with Obama's policies. Some of them let that disapontment get personal.

And if Obama can not keep the White House, no Democrat can. Because the party will be so damaged in the eyes of the electorat that they will put what ever stooge Republicans put up.

[tranche]

14. The don't have a competing candidate. They have a competing ideal. Which is impossible to uphold.

That is why this place blames him for the oil spill and then blames him for the beliefs of those cleaning it up.

I look forward to logging in each day to see what outrage he has committed in any particular hour or the day.

[KonaKane]

18. That's the feeling I am getting too.

What's disappointing is that I hear, and still believe, that we Democrats are the party of solutions and not just saying "no". I would hope we have a viable Plan B or plan C if Barack Obama turns out not to have been the solution we hoped for.

So far, I havent seen one materialize.

[Greyhound]

34. Please show me who here blamed Obama for the gusher in the gulf?

Anxiously awaiting your reply.

[tranche]

49. Here it is smart alec. You can apologize any way you see fit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Exerpt: "I love Mr. President, but now I also hate him for allowing this to happening."

[Greyhound]

61. OK. my bad. I didn't see that one. n/t

[KonaKane]

15. Interesting...only one alternative candidate so far.

All the other responses have been quibbles with the degree of opposition to Obama in our own ranks, or personal attacks.

How about some more election year alternatives for Mr. Obama. I'm seriously interested in your ideas.

[scarletwoman]

24. You're not "seriously interested" in anything but picking a fight.

I'll give your OP precisely the amount of "serious" consideration it deserves:







Sincerely,
sw

[KonaKane]

29. So you don't have an alternative either?

I'm not surprised.

[scarletwoman]

39. I find your entire frame fallacious & irrelevant, and not worthy of consideration, period.

[KonaKane]

40. OK, so you have no alternatives. Point taken.

[scarletwoman]

48. No, I have no interest in playing your game. But apparently you are incapable of taking THAT point.

[KonaKane]

53. You just want to lob spitballs at me, and not answer my question. I get it.

.

[scarletwoman]

62. I'm not a therapist, it's not my job to try to unwind someone's persecution complex.

[Forkboy]

66. LOL....+1

[KonaKane]

67. But you participate here, and it should be easy to answer a simple question.

Which apparently vexes a few.

[scarletwoman]

75. I've given you the only answer you're going to get from me, you just refuse to accept it.

[KonaKane]

79. Which is no answer at all.

Just more personal attacks and insults. Thanks for playing.

[William Z. Foster]

82. it is not about "alternative candidates"

It is not about personalities, it is not about individual choices, or favorites or heroes.

By the way, the criticism that Obama has gotten is nothing compared to what Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR and LBJ endured. Nothing. Yet no one whined "you hate Lincoln" or "you hate FDR" in response to criticism. People didn't say "OMG would you rather have Jefferson Davis??"

"Would you rather have Palin?" is very weak and does the president a grave disservice. We are going to get Palin if Democrats keep moving to the right.

[freddie mertz]

16. "Hate" is the word you and others use to discredit dissent.

It's ridiculous, and presumes that only love and hate are the only options.

In other words, this is dishonest flamebait.

Next.

[Bluebear]

17. And we get it, you loooooove him

Nobody here "hates" Obama, many question his policies and corporate leanings. Do you really mean to boil this down to "love" and "hate"? How juvenile.

[KonaKane]

20. I think you're taking that word too personally.

I was hoping that most here would get the connotation of "hate" as in the political sense - hate his actions and decisions while in office. It's sad to see that might not be the case.

[Bluebear]

23. The word has been used here from early on.

Either you hate him, or you're a racist, or you want Hillary, or you want Sarah Palin.

Dissent and disillustionment never seem to be granted as options.

[msongs]

26. the op title says "hate obama" not hate Obama policies. quit dodging nt

[Swamp Rat]

27. "You hate Obama," as in YOU - second person, personal pronoun

Do you have an alternate definition for the word "you"?

[KonaKane]

36. So rather than pick an alternative, you want to play "dissemble the sentence"?

Interesting.

[Swamp Rat]

44. Poor response and I don't want to "play".

I am here to chew bubble gun and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubble gum.

[KonaKane]

46. OK, you don't have an alternative either. Fair enough.

.

[Swamp Rat]

51. I AM TOO BUSY DROWNING IN OIL while you pontificate and make snarky comments on the Internet

Oh, by the way, I voted for Obama once.

[KonaKane]

58. I take it from your graphic that you blame Obama for the oil spill

and won't be voting for him again. Who is your alternative at this point?

[Swamp Rat]

72. What has he done to stop it?...... He let BP, a CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE, 'handle' the spill

That's like letting the mafia clean up gambling and the heroin trade, but much much worse.

My alternative is to watch the slow destruction of my city (again), and environment, while everyone else defends their favorite politician on the Internet.

[KonaKane]

76. Yes, I get it. You blame Obama. So who is a viable alternative?

Who do you see as actually able to retain the White House for (what's left) of the progressive force in government?

[Swamp Rat]

85. "You blame" is a silly game. So, who is going to stop the destruction of the Louisiana wetlands?

Who do you see is a viable alternative as protector of our air, water, and food supplies?

Obama is certainly failing to protect us as I type this, so who do you think can help us before we die here in Louisiana?

We do not have much more time before we completely lose our way of life.... millions of gallons of crude are gushing out and floating up on our shores, killing our food supplies and causing permanent damage to the Earth's ecosystem.

I hope you come up with an alternative very soon.

[KonaKane]

92. You misunderstand the thread. I'm asking YOU.

I see that you blame Obama for the oil spill and the response to it, but who is your choice for the best candidate to replace him, with the best real chance of keeping the WH out of "more" right wing hands?

[Swamp Rat]

96. I see you use the word "blame" as a rhetorical weapon and you have no interest in real debate.

You have no useful purpose here, and obviously, you do not give a fuck about us here in Louisiana.

This is our future national bird:

[scarletwoman]

98. Amen. Someone who starts an OP with "you hate Obama" clearly has no interest in honest debate.

sw

[Swamp Rat]

101. Way'at scarletwoman!

We are running out of time here in Louisiana.... maybe it is already too late for us.

[scarletwoman]

115. I'm so sorry, Swampy, it's horrible. It's hard to see how this disaster can be healed.

I grieve for all that's being lost -- for the people, the animals, and the ecosystem that they all depended on for survival.

[QC]

117. But please try to think of what's important: someone criticized a politician on a message board.

Mere ecological catastrophe pales into insignificance in such a context!

[KonaKane]

102. I'm not looking for debate, I was looking for your alternatives.

Still not seeing any, but lots of vitriol aimed at me personally for some weird reason.

[Swamp Rat]

107. Ah, so YOU are the victim here.. Enjoy the last of our Louisiana seafood on your commemorative Obama

plate (oysters, red fish, shrimp, and softshell crab not included).

Don't wait too long, because it will be gone very soon!!!



PS. I guess you can use corporate-farmed chicken in your gumbo from now on.

[KonaKane]

109. Stop making this about me, and see if you can answer the question.

Really, who is your alternative?

[AnArmyVeteran]

19. MYSELF! I would be an instant hero because I wouldn't take crap from anyone!

VOTE FOR ANARMYVETERAN
FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
2012
And I would literally kick people out of my office if they tried to bribe me and have them arrested. Every day I would list the names any congress members who were prostituting themselves and selling out the people (republicans & democrats). Not one person in my cabinet or my administration would come from big business. I'd rather have a cabinet made out of carpenters than the low quality, corrupted rich thugs who keep ending up in power.

I trust my mailman, plumber, carpenter, and lawn service guy, so I'd appoint them to high positions too. I would declare war on inequity. I would declare war on Wall Street. I would declare war on big banks. And I'd appoint Michael Moore to my cabinet and I would go with him with every truck in the army and park them in front of banks and demand they fill them up, as Michael tried to get Goldman Sachs to do.

What we need as president is someone who has fucking GUTS and will represent the people. And I would never sell them out. I've never sold anyone out during my entire life and I've always been an advocate to those who could not help themselves.

I would also order the military to seize all BP's assets and the assets of every BP oil executive even if it meant taking over the Marshall Islands and invading Switzerland.

There would be massive arrests of all those who have worked in government to enrich themselves or committed treasonous acts. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and that entire regime of war criminals would be rounded up and thrown in prison.

All lobbyists would be rounded up and put in work camps and their bloodmoney seized,so they could repay all of those they hurt by their corrupting influence on government.

If I was elected I would be an instant hero to every regular, average American, from radical tea party people to the most left wing liberal. The tea baggers are not all wrong about government. They are just being duped into supporting people who are the very people who are trying to hurt them, corporations.

Send donations to my campaign headquarters:
WWW.IDONTHAVEAFUCKINGCHANCETOWIN.COM

[KG]

88. would you declare war on the pusherman?

[AnArmyVeteran]

116. Who is pusherman? If it's bad, hell yeah... His (its) days are numbered!

So do I have your support

[DrDan]

22. get a grip - no on e hates Obama here

your question does not even deserve an answer based on how you decided to frame it.

[pinboy3niner]

The OP invites a rehashing of those comments you cite in "thread after thread"

By your own admission, we've been there before . . .

[IndianaJoe]

25. Well, let's see -- Hillary comes to mind.

And Gore. Maybe Feingold. Sheldon Whitehouse is a guy I like a lot.... Carl Levin's a good man.
So's Bernie Sanders.

Not that they'd win. That's another thing. But sure, there are alternatives to Obama.

[greencharlie]

84. why not Dr. Dean? nt

[IndianaJoe]

89. A very good choice, indeed. n/t

[Greyhound]

28. OK, I get it, you can't distinguish between disagreement and hate.

That's OK, the President can't distinguish between the people and the ruling class.
& U

[Swamp Rat]

33. BINGO!

[kentuck]

30. Why would you think that people here hate President Obama?

n/t

[RainDog]

37. because it enables the person to make a worthless piece of shit argument

and makes it possible to excuse actions of the sitting president by blaming those who voted for him who expected better from him.

[KonaKane]

45. Actually it was pretty straightforward.

So I'll repeat it - if you don't like Obama, who is your alternative pick of a candidate with the best chance of keeping the White House in Democratic control?

[RainDog]

78. okay, so you're saying Obama is a failure and those who disagree with him

cannot expect him to learn from his mistakes and change course?

interesting.

[KonaKane]

83. Actually I said no such thing. I do not believe he is a complete failure.

I disagree with some of what he has done, but all told, I still think he is a better choice than any others on the horizon. I also still think he has the best chance of retaining the White House for the Democrats. I am interested in the opinions of those who are totally disenchanted with him, and who they think is a better and just as viable alternative.

So far I've gotten five nominations.

[RainDog]

87. I think Dean wouldn't have been so ready to do whatever the p-t-b's wanted

I think Dean wouldn't have kowtowed to the religious right and aligned himself with homophobes on the day of his inauguration.

I don't think Dean would have let the stock market/Goldman Sachs walk all over the American people.

I don't think Dean would have made the health care bill a give away to insurance cos.

The reason I hold these beliefs is b/c of Dean's bg.

[KonaKane]

94. I was a Dean supporter in 2004.

And I agree with your assessment. Unfortunately I don't see him as a real working alternative in the 2012 race. Unless, of course, things were to change radically between now and then.

[SidDithers]

31. K&R...

especially your first line.

Sid

[KonaKane]

32. One for Kucinich...one for Hillary Clinton. Anybody else?

[Dinger]

43. Wesley Clark

I mean that.

[KonaKane]

47. Thanks for answering. Do you believe that Mr. Clark would...

have better policies on Iraq/Afghanistan?

corporate money?

US economy?

Taxes?

Civil rights?

Torture/rendition?

Privacy?


Thanks.

[DesertFlower]

38. i sticking with obama.

[AllentownJake]

41. Who the hell was Barack Obama in 2006?

Other than the Goatherder's kid that made the great speech at the convention in 2004. Hillary was going to be the nominee and DLC would rule the DNC for 4 more years. We rebelled, he was co-opted or was misleading from the beginning.

There is a vacuum of progressive leadership. It will not exist for long. Someone will step up.

Whether we beat him or not is the open question. Whether someone tries, is not in doubt.

I don't hate Barack Obama. I just think he's doing a piss poor job on a plethora of issues. I'm sure he'd be a wonderful neighbor and I'd enjoy him at a party.

[havocmom]

54. Yep. Who would have thought pols like Grijalva and Grayson would get so vocal

and strong?

Who knows what great candidates are in the wings, particularly the left one

Agree re Obama. And I was an early 'give him some time' DEM. But he HAS disappointed on many issues that are very important. AND he invited me and the rest of America to hold his feet to the fire and make him do the right thing. That was either an invitation to voice dissent or it was a dare; either way, I'm in.

[AllentownJake]

57. People act like a Primary opponent is a bad thing

Which is ridiculously funny considering how this guy got the office

If the President has a primary opponent it is because people aren't happy with him. I'd rather the bad blood be settled electorally and than we come together than to have a festering sore wound in the party left untreated.

[noamnety]

56. Eh, I knew in 06 he would be elected.

Not because of the speech, which I thought was trite and lacked substance, but because of the media anointing that immediately happened after the speech. I watched that and realized it was already decided.

[Touchdown]

59. Feingold

Any questions?

[KonaKane]

60. There is a lot I like about him. Thanks for the response.

.

[KG]

63. nobody can have a legitimate dissension with the prez's policies . they're just 'haters'. whaaaaa

i've seen more mature attitudes from 6th graders.

[Scuba]

71. Sorry, we're not built on hate. Try those other guys, they're into that.

[elocs]

73. Unless someone specifically says they "hate" Obama, what degree of disagreement with him

then translates into "hate"?

It is very obvious that the freepers and teahadists hate Obama, but although there are many Democratic politicians and figures with whom I disagree, but I do not "hate". "Hate" is such a self-destructive and wasteful emotion that ultimately hurts the hater without hurting the hated.

I can remember during the primary season of 2008 when so many took the stance that if you disagreed with Clinton then you were a Hillary-hater, or if you did not support Obama you were an Obama-hater. That notion specifically is silly.

[B Calm]

77. I haven't given up on President Obama, but I do like Alan Grayson.

[conspirator]

80. I hate rich people. And obama stands in the way n/t

[graywarrior]

81. Jesus Christ Superstar could be elected and within weeks he'd be crucified in GD/GDP.

[KonaKane]

95. LOL. Astute assessment.

[mzteris]

119. a-yuh. n/t

[depakid]

90. OK- I get it, you think like Bush: For 'em or agin 'em

Nuance- or god forbid critical thought need not apply.

[cornermouse]

93. Palin isn't going to be the candidate.

I would bet money on that. The behind the scene movers and shakers won't allow her to be the candidate. That said, I'm sure I won't like whoever they choose; maybe Gingrich, Mr. Contract on America, has enough clout with the party or it could be someone who is pretty much unknown.

The bottom line? Its not just about winning. That's not enough. It's about the policies the administration puts on the table. If the policies enacted aren't right, it doesn't really matter who's in the White House.

[xchrom]

97. He was a bad choice when ivoted for him - he's still a bad choice.

And I blame centrist/moderate chickenshits and corporate whores for
consistently fucking the political landscape and giving us
serious lightweights and counter productive 'liberal' poiliticians.

You're included in my blame list.

[A HERETIC I AM]

100. What I find interesting...

Is that people are so surprised when they elect a politician and he has the temerity to
ACT LIKE ONE.

[KonaKane]

106. Because believe it or not, some politicians are actually good people.

I've known a few in my life. It's too bad that the bad ones outnumber them and give the whole institution a bad name. The late Tip O'Neill once lamented the fall of politics as "an honorable profession".

[havocmom]

111. What intrigues me is when some people don't like some things some pols do or fail to do

some other people try the rovian trick of subverting language and call them haters.

'Yer either lovin someone or yer hatin them' is akin to 'yer either with us or with the terrarists'

All the straw would be better used to sop up oil in the Gulf.

[Ramulux]

108. Howard Dean

[Blue_Roses]

112. I don't hate him in fact quite the contrare...

there's a few here who wouldn't be happy with anything.

[KonaKane]

113. I'm beginning to see that.

And they have a penchant for attacking the OP personally rather than address the issue. I expected that stuff on FreeRepublic, but not here.

[mzteris]

114. Plenty of DU'ers say they're NOT voting for him in 2012 -

I, too, would like to see who they think should be running instead.

[KonaKane]

118. Well so far we've gotten almost half a dozen candidates....

Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Wesley Clark, Russ Fheingold and Dennis Kucinich. Now if we can move past the attack phase, we may get more (candidates).

[lazarus]

121. We're locking this

Flame bait. Very few people here actually "hate" President Obama.