Handwriting on the wall for 'cursive,' but teachers push penmanship

[mfcorey1]

My grandchildren are under the ABeka curriculum and they believe in only cursive writing. By grade five their penmanship was awful. Do away with cursive only curriculums. With the age of technology, students will be writing using keyboards anyway.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/education/2010-05-09/teachers-try-squeeze-cursive-lessons

[LeftinOH]

1. OMG, LOL! R U kidding me?

-As it happens, I've heard from teacher acquaintances that some students these days submit homework which is liberally peppered with 'texting' language & abbreviations. They honestly think it's perfectly acceptable writing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. That's a different issue

Texting abbreviations are grammar. Handwriting is how the letters are formed.

Both are critical topics but they aren't the same thing.

[ashling]

11. Well, as a college instructor I can verify both

texting and illegible writing (scribbling) in addition to atrocious spelling

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. All the more reason to teach keyboarding

:)

[ashling]

79. I took typing in high school

on a Royal manual typewriter. Does that count? I got keyboarding AND I learned how to insert a carbon without smudging the copy! LOL

[proud2BlibKansan]

90. Yes you get extra credit!

[sarge43]

2. Yup. Everyone should learn Morse Code,

because we'll all be using telegraph anyway.

(Wayback machine)

[mwb970]

33. Funny you would mention Morse Code.

Like other boomers, I learned to write cursive (we called it "script" then) in school and was urged to use it for all of my writing. At about the same time (6th grade, early 60s), I got into amateur radio and had to learn Morse code to get my license (5 words per minute for Novice Class, 13 for General Class, 20 for Extra Class). Guess what - you can't write in "script" at 20+ wpm! So I printed all my Morse Code copy, as well as everything else I wrote. I still print everything, using cursive only for my signature (which I often screw up).

[sarge43]

38. I mentioned Code because

the latest tech whizz bang is not necessarily the wave of future. I remember when radio and television were going to be in every class room because teachers in every room were obsolete or so they said.

I was drilled in cursive thorough elementary school (I'm that old). I still use it because of muscle memory and it's faster than print which is why it was developed.

[ashling]

80. I remember getting very disgusted at my child's 3d grade

back to school/parent's night. The Language teacher specifically did not emphasize spelling because "we'll all be using spell check in the future."

[elocs]

3. The only cursive I use now is my signature,

and that is an amalgamation of my printing. I have not used cursive in decades. In fact I once had a job where for security reasons they wanted to give cursive examples of our handwriting and I had to ask how certain cursive letters were written.

The point in writing is to communicate an idea. My cursive is so bad as to not be readable, so that defeats the point of communication. Today most of my "writing" is with a keyboard, but when I do not use a keyboard I print and my printing is distinctive as well as very easy to read.

I have seen people on message boards, even here at DU, who use texting or other such shorthand to convey words or phrases that could very easily be communicated by using the actual words. Even using keyboards for homework or papers, students today should be required to use proper words and grammar as well as complete sentences.

[dionysus]

17. reminds me of me... i have forgotten how some of the cursive letters are written!

[elocs]

21. I had to ask how to write an uppercase "q" or a "z".

Cursive is nice when it can be done well, but so people can today. Really, how often do people actually "write" things with a pen or pencil anymore?

[ben_thayer]

23. Same here...

I haven't written in cursive for 40 years, and don't miss it a bit. Communication is the key, and deciphering someone's beautiful Spencerian flourishes seems counterproductive.

JMHO

:shrug:

[elocs]

24. You know, for 20 years my signature was like I was taught to write it in grade school.

I finally changed it maybe 18 years ago to reflect how I would really write now. It is somewhat a connection of the type of printed letters I use along with some personal flourish. It is not particularly legible if you do not know what it is, but it is done with energy and is unique. I like it a lot compared to the perfectly written cursive signature I used when I was 12.

[ben_thayer]

34. Great minds etc....

HAHAHA

Back in the 60's I fronted a Rock band that achieved some local success, and was shocked when people actually started asking for my autograph...(!) Embarrassed by my proper Palmer signature, I made a conscious effort to add a unique zzzinggg to it, and did the same as you- incorporating elements of my printing style with a flashy cursive. I think it turned out well, and still sign my name the same way.

:toast:

[Marr]

48. I draw a little picture.

When they look at me funny, I look back at them blankly, like it's normal.

[ashling]

82. I can remember in 2d grade (1959) spending what seemed like

countless hours making loops on those WIDE ruled Big Chief pads with the dotted line down the center. My cursive was pretty good for 2d grade ... at least on my notes to blonde girl two rows over (I think her name was Charlene)

I also remember getting sent to the principal for staring out the window instead of doing my work. LOL

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. We don't even teach handwriting anymore

It's not in our curriculum.

[Codeine]

44. Then how do people learn to sign their names?

Are signatures really going to start being printed?

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Most of us teach them how to do that

But no other formal handwriting lessons.

[Codeine]

51. Well that makes sense.

I've always been a person who prints, so my emotional attachment to handwriting is nil. Some folks do it beautifully, but others - including me - make a real balls-up of it.

[donco6]

96. I don't use a cursive signature.

Many people don't.

[Bucky]

99. Is a handwriting signature of stronger legal value than a printed signature?

That seems to be the implication of forms that ask for both.

[The Straight Story]

60. My daughter is home schooled and she has daily lessons on handwriting

Both cursive and regular.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. In my classroom too

But it's not in the curriculum.

Fortunately good teachers reach beyond the curriculum and teach what's best for kids. :)

[donco6]

94. Ours, either.

Somehow they survive.

I never use my cursive, ever.

[Coco2]

6. I send you into the forest with an ax...when do I get an email from you?

think about it! J rogan was spot on with that joke

[Cleita]

7. Back in my day, "cursive" is all we learned but they called in Palmer back

then. We weren't allowed to have awful penmanship by grade five because we were graded on it. I don't read much handwriting anymore except on applications that have to be handwritten in my office. Some of the "penmanship" is pretty awful if non-existent that I come across. I think schools need to go back to that awful Palmer method. I also find that many, many people I come across, even college educated ones, are appalling ignorant and grammar challenged because they don't want to read and I believe all these disciplines are intertwined, penmanship, spelling, English grammar and reading.

[JCMach1]

10. No matter how hard I tried back in the day, I could not master penmanship

Some of us just don't have the fine motor skills for that.

The hours I spent copying and recopying could have been better spent in elementary school!

It is absolute poppycock that penmanship has any relationship to other aspects of literacy, intelligence, or learning in general.

[Cleita]

53. I think it is because there was the thought that had to go into the whole

action. You didn't want to misspell words in your fine hand or write down anything that was stupid. Think of all the writers previous to the invention of the typewriter who had to write their works, their poems, their novels down by hand. They had to make it readable and they had to make it right before it went on paper or the corrections would be more than time consuming and expensive. Paper wasn't cheap back then. I'm sorry you couldn't master it. I couldn't master math, but I'm so happy that no one threw a calculator at me and told me it was fine. At least I can do basic arithmetic today, even though I couldn't master algebra and calculus.

[JCMach1]

55. I never mastered penmanship, but got my degrees in English

:dilemma:

I still can't freehand write worth a flip. I also am terrible with drawing.

[NuttyFluffers]

89. i agree w/ you, especially when it comes to non-Latin E. Asia scripts.

i got to the point that i wrote notes in Japanese w/ the same speed that i write English notes. my kana and kanji (Chinese characters) became a blur, just like my Latin counterpart. however, with obedience to stroke order, it was readily legible to myself and fast enough to take handwritten notes. to those who type, trust me, you just cannot get the same speed w/ kanji & kana as by hand -- after two years of typing essays and homework it's just still too slow to use in lectures for notes. in fact, MS Word was hopelessly slower than Mac/Unix unicode, and even then when i got used to hot-key switching between two scripts and spacebar-ing super fast to auto-input kanji, it didn't hold a candle to writing by hand. (the nuns of my catholic school were diligent in grinding into us both speed and precision in writing, because oh goodness do they love you to write notes and practice exercises.)

that said, if i am to write something for someone else to read, knowing penmanship -- aka knowing stroke order -- and writing with a bit more attention to generally accepted style, my writing is legible. and while my typing speed in Latin script can go faster at times than my handwriting, it's predominantly limited to mindless dictation/reproduction. trust me, if you have 15+ pages of writing to do in 3 hours for an essay-based in-class test, give me pen and paper each and every time. i'll need an anti-inflammatory and a pan of ice for my swollen arm afterwards, but i can fly out that essay by hand than anything by computer. the biggest advantage of word processors is being able to edit w/o reproducing the material again into a finished master. as soon as an iPad comes about with a stylus and a word processor that has world-class handwriting recognition software i'd be flying far, far faster than typing out my essays (and i can crap out a 5 pager in about an hour and a half; outline, organized thoughts, essay development, editing, and finish all included,).

[NuttyFluffers]

91. i sympathize w/ you, but still disagree. especially after music & E. Asian lang.

my penmanship was always C grade, and oh how i hated it with a passion in elementary school...

however fine motor skills and structured reproduction being tested repeatedly to faster and faster levels has a very crucial element to other forms of learning in general. it's this level of rote learning that leads to muscle memory development where the mind is then freed up to do more processing tasks. when the mind is freed up then you can finesse skills you already have high levels of familiarity with, and then perceive where else to apply them.

handwriting very much falls into this category, as much as i want to dismiss it. and in an alphabetic script it may have less of a relation to parallel thinking or spatial development, but in pictographic (i.e. glyphic, ideographic, etc) scripts knowing the pieces and where they go quickly helps you understand the components of more complex graphic symbols -- and how to finesse them into greater shades of allegorical meaning.

it's the same reason i hated scales and arpeggios in music, but noticed that the kids who practiced these mundane exercises the most went on to be the better seated in the symphony. when you practice a scale so much the organizing principle substructure becomes second-nature; one could glance at key changes and not even have to think about which notes/fingerings to avoid. suddenly you are liberated into noticing overall patterns in musical structure, and given leeway to introduce diacritics to evoke a greater emotive work.

it does have a point, as much as my inner child grudgingly hates to admit it.

edit: i have noticed the same level of dedication to structural form reproduction in the beginning when dancers, painters, and martial artists are first taught the basics... it seems to be the very basis of all the arts and crafts.

[JCMach1]

98. I am also a published poet, creative writer, and do much

more technical education research...

I can also handle and deal with all shades of visual interpretation including art and film.

I still put it to you I will never be able to print worth a flip and somehow it has not held me back in anyway.

People (and researchers) in literacy also used to believe that diagramming sentences would also help you think.

Meanwhile, research in new literacies is woefully behind. For example, how does interaction with a computer change how we think in language.

For me, it's liberating, I don't have to make the conscious fine motor control adjustments to create a 'readable' text. Instead, I can completely focus on editing, revising, and those subtle shades of meaning you mentioned.

[ashling]

83. I agree

nt

[juajen]

92. Uh, Cleita, that would be "appallingly" . I know, I'm totally outdated. NT

[Flipper999]

8. They drilled it into me.

Nothing but cursive until middle school. I kept using it even past that point. Funny thing is, my penmanship never got better. The only way to make my cursive look halfway decent is to slow my writing down to a crawl. This, of course, was unacceptable during timed essays or if I wanted to get my homework done within a reasonable time. So I spewed out chicken scratch. Cursive chicken scratch.

I don't know why, but cursive makes my hand cramp up worse than regular writing. Still, it can be pretty... if I have gobs of time for it.

[FormerDittoHead]

9. Not googling, but wasn't cursive INVENTED because of quill pens?

I mean, if they had ball point pens back in the day, would cursive have ever happened?

So with quills and ink wells gone, do we really need cursive?

[eilen]

12. The SAT board refused my son his accommodations

Part of his IEP is to use a laptop for written assignments. His handwriting is horrible, mostly because as a child he had poor fine motor strength and the curriculum did not support a strong handwriting program. In fifth grade he was still printing in pencil. The schools don't want to pay for Occupational Therapists who can help work with such kids to help improve strength and dexterity with writing instruments as well as scissors, etc.

Earlier this month he took his SAT's and was stopped in the first sentence of his written essay because it took so long for him to write as he wanted it to be legible.

Thus this move to eliminate handwriting in the schools does not serve all students, particularly the ones that need it the most.

[mzteris]

28. has he been formally identified with dysgraphia

or other "written language disorder"? If he has they MUST accommodate him.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. You can probably file a formal complaint

Is the SAT addressed in his IEP? If the IEP says he can use a keyboard while taking the SAT then he needs to be given a keyboard. IEPs are legally binding

[bigwillq]

13. I never write in cursive

I like my printing so much better.


on edit: Except for my signature. Thanks to a DUer above for reminding me.

[ipfilter]

14. I'm left handed. Writing is a chore for me no matter what I use.

But it's almost impossible for a lefty to write cursive correctly. We end up pushing the pen or pencil across the page instead of dragging it. I was able to write legible in Single Stroke Gothic, which I learned in a drafting class, but after a while I lost the proper technique for forming letters and it actually ended up ruining my handwriting. I've had others tell me that learning SSG ended up ruining their handwriting as well.

Spiral notebooks are another curse on lefties. It's impossible to write near the left margin because the spiral is in the way. Even a regular notepad is a challenge if it's almost full. Our hand tends to fall off the ledge near the left margin.

[dionysus]

18. and how about smearing the crap out of whatever you're writing with your hand? i always used to have

ink\pencil stains all over my left hand when i was in school.

[Dappleganger]

31. Our lefty son has this challenge as well.

We were able to find lefty spiral notebooks or just use the ones with the spiral on the top of the page.

[Mudoria]

15. Nothing improves your handwriting better than calligraphy.

Maybe that should be a required course in grades 1-3 to give students an early start on improving their handwriting. I took calligraphy in a local free program in my 20's and boy did my cursive look better afterwards.

[mzteris]

30. "drawing letters" is stored in a different part of the brain

than "writing" letters. . .

My son can "draw" nice letters, but he can't "write" them worth a damn.

he's better at "writing" traditional Chinese characters than an ABC language.

[madrchsod]

16. i can print better than "write"

i`m still in awe of people who can write in cursive.

[NeedleCast]

19. Do away with cursive period

I can't imagine a more useless thing to educate kids about.

[MadHound]

32. Well, almost half the students in this country don't own computers, or have computers access

So you expect them to do what, print everything?

Furthermore, when students are expected to take notes, many can't afford a laptop to lug to every class, not to mention that laptops are awkward, to say the least, in many classrooms.

Besides, being an old school cursive writer, I find that when it comes to taking notes I still out perform those who have laptops. Not to mention the fact that laptops are a great cover for a kid to goof off during class rather than paying attention. I saw that in my college classes all the time, kids surfing the web rather than taking notes.

As a teacher in middle school, I would never allow laptops for that very reason.

Cursive is a good thing to learn, you never know when you'll need it.

[tonysam]

46. It's excellent for developing fine motor skills

Computers are not the be all, end all, of everything in the world.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. 99% of schools have computers

Clinton made that possible as well as Internet access.

[pitohui]

75. almost half the students in this country don't have computer access?

sorry you're going to have to prove that to me, i've traveled all over this country and i've found free computer access in public libraries even in the middle of absolute nowhere

[Obamanaut]

43. No. Keep all periods, even cursive. They are handy for separating

sentences.

[TwilightGardener]

20. My kids never really picked up cursive very well. Their penmanship consists

of sloppy childish printed scrawl. I am very disappointed in schools for letting proper handwriting slip. I have forced my kids to re-do homework assignments more neatly, with cursive, instead of handing in illegible papers--boy, they love that.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

22. I had pretty good penmanship until I had a stroke in

2007. I lost the fine motor skills in my right hand and now my penmanship is completely gone. If I take my time, I can still print, but my signature's is definitely gone.

I learned how to write (the Palmer method) back in grammar school. We printed in 1st grade, but by 2nd grade we were beginning to learn cursive. Between the nuns and my Mom making me re-do homework, I learned how to write cursive.

My brother was a lefty and the nuns tried to make him write with his right hand, but my Mom soon put a stop to that. He had horrible handwriting his entire life.

I've tried to get my penmanship back with handwriting books I find at the local stores, but I think it's gone for good.

[Bill McBlueState]

25. interesting, ABeka is for Christian fundamentalists

"Cursive only" seems to have no educational merit to it; it's just another way for fundamentalists to poke their fingers in the eye of anything that sounds modern.

[mzteris]

27. Montessori does as well - and they're hardly a fundy group... n/t

[kentuck]

26. That's the goal of Google.

We can drop math also, while we are at it. Google is the only education you need.

[ashling]

85. That is all too often the view of a lot of college freshmen I see

Oh, and Wikipedia.

Professor: "Have you tried critical thinking?"

Freshman: "Just a minute, I'll Google it .... how do you spell that?"

[Dappleganger]

29. Sadly, penmanship has given way to increased FCAT review

in our schools.

BTW, I have studied ABeka's handwriting program and it is sorely lacking. A much better approach is Handwriting Without Tears which we used here at home to supplement (our children used this at school in the early grades).

[KittyWampus]

35. Of course I'm the weirdo who writes in cursive. I take notes all the time while studying and also

use it in journaling/artwork/calligraphy. It's a shame so many people don't appreciate the creativity involved.

Note- my cursive while note-taking isn't that neat or correct, but it's highly efficient NOT lifting the pen off the paper.

[TwilightGardener]

39. That's what my kids don't get--they think printing's easier because

cursive is "too hard". It's just hard because they never use it. Once one is accustomed to it, it's the easiest way to write quickly. Must be a generational thing, that nobody thinks it's worthwhile to learn anymore.

[dana_b]

62. I'm a weirdo too!

I only write in cursive and my daughter thinks that it's the funniest thing since it wasn't stressed in her school. She thinks that I'm the last person around who writes in cursive. I'll let her know I'm not. ;)

[derby378]

36. We cannot become too dependent on technology

Cursive writing is a must. Besides, how else is anyone going to produce a decent signature?

[Javaman]

37. When the Zombie Apocalypse finally hits...

They will want the remainder of our oil instead of our brains (because we won't have anything in them of use). Because of lack of writing skills, people will be unable to pass secret messages to one another(forming an underground to over throw our zombie oppresses) due to their hands being frozen in permanent crooks due to only keyboard typing. Thus unable to 1) physically write anything 2) form the abstract concept of writing things to paper 3) pass thoughts on how to effectively kills zombies with a single head shot. We will become frustrated and take our our anger in drinking contests and ballroom charades.

After the zombies have sucked up all the oil, they will resort to eating crap (our brains) as a final recourse to survive.

We will wonder around aimlessly with our frozen crimped hands, screaming obscenities at one another in hopes of communicating our fear, but only succeeding in creating new forms of fads to pass the time. The zombies, although confused by our behavior, understand it's a necessary evil to breeding idiot humans for food.

However, over time, the mutated moron zombie, due to poor nutrition (once again, our brains), are only able to play video games all day. Although they are at the top of the food chain, the moron zombies don't realize that they can be easily conquered.

Waiting from the shadows of civilization, the roaches will see their chance and take over the world in a bloodless, brainless, oil-less coupe estate. Needing only dust and old newspapers to survive, the roaches rule with an iron fist.

The zombies never saw it coming and bow down before the wit and intelligence of their new roach overlords.

The zombies become the slaves of the roaches while we humans slink back to the recesses of civilization to rise once again at a later date.

The roaches, protective of their new found power, keep the secret is the "shoe heel" aka their Achilles heel (if you will) closely guarded and out of the clever, now relaxing hands of the humans.

As a result all foot ware of any type has been banned from the planet.

However, deep in the dark recesses of Paris, the back room of a certain twinkies merchant (a weakness of the roaches) sits a single pair of, yet confiscated, stiletto heels.

All hail, our new roach overlords with zombie slaves and human brain food!!!

(I don't get out enough)

[KittyWampus]

45. All Hail the Holy Stiletto. So humans eventually un-crook their hands but end up with

bunions from wearing stilettos.

[Javaman]

56. Hand bunions.

no where did I say we put them back on our feet.

Since we no longer could type and we lived without shoes, the need for foot coverings became passe' and thus the great rebirth of the shoe on the hand.

Various forms of "shoes" became what we may call now, "fighting weapons", but in that future time, they will be known as "stomping grippers".

Myths and legend will create a type of lore surrounding such items.

As the great zombie die off continued due to lack of quality human brains, the underground fringe civilization of the last few "smart" humans, struck out with their crudely fashioned handshoe stompers (the term gripper didn't come along until later; when awards and medals were bestowed upon great killers of the roach hoards).

First made from tree roots then from the remains of poorly made sofa legs, the new human hoard rampaged; taking out their years of insulting subjugation upon the 6 legged creatures.

The roaches wit and intelligence were no match for a good stomp.

It was a dark day for insect kind, but a bright day for the somewhat dimwitted humans.

Angry at being defeated by such moronic means, the roaches slinked back into the shadows once again. Living quietly on their desiccated twinkies, dust and old newspapers. Plotting, plotting, plotting their next move.

[KittyWampus]

58. Sorry, I goofed. However, your vision was one of the most entertaining reads I've found in a while

You have a gift and I hope you use it wisely. :)

It's a shame your scenario isn't illustrated.

Have you ever read the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers?

[Javaman]

77. it's weird...

I have never actually "heard" of them, but after googling the name, I am aquaited with the artwork. I recall it from somewhere. Although I'm in my late 40's I have this lizard memory of my older sister reading them, either that or one of her boyfriends.

I did a little reading and I am incredibly flattered with the comparison. :)

And thank you for the compliment.

I will from time to time, illustrate my odd little writings. The last one I did was years ago, though. It was titled, "Aqua-phobic Jesus". LOL I would post it here but I'm afraid I probably would be banned. LOL

Perhaps, I have stumbled upon something purely accidental that needs to be given life in art. :)

I will take your suggestion and contemplate upon it.

Like all things, it's a matter of finding the time to make it real.

Thanks, you may have unintentionally lit the fuse to something that i have been searching for again within myself. :) Something that I thought took a long sleep never to awaken.

Life is so funny. Laugh hardy my friend, laugh hardy, because I am! LOL

Thank you, cheers and spread your unintentional gift to others. :)

[KittyWampus]

78. The Freak Brothers cartoons had little sidebar cartoons on the pages- the Cockroach Army

This is driving me crazy- I can't find an actual cartoon of Commander Cockroach and his military empire- this is all I could find

[ashling]

86. "to over throw our zombie oppresses"

The decline has begun

:rofl:

[Bucky]

100. .

:patriot:

[Goblinmonger]

40. Of all the things we need to teach kids in school

THIS is vital. :sarcasm:

Really? You know we are in the digital/information age, right? I teach high school English and there is NOTHING that is turned in to me that is handwritten. I can run a completely paperless classroom. But, yes, for goodness sake, let's teach cursive.

[AngryAmish]

41. I got a D- in 2d grade because of my handwriting.

With lots of practice I was able to raise it to a B. I gave up cursive in high school - could not write legibly. I lack fine muscle control.

Still the lowest grade I ever got. Darn you, Sister Jean.

[hedgehog]

42. Out with Spencer, Out with Palmer, in with Italic:

It's legible, easy to produce, quick and looks adult.

I bought the workbooks and taught myself and my oldest when he was in Junior High

Workbooks here:

http://www.cep.pdx.edu/titles/italic_series/index.shtml

[REP]

64. Foundation is a good hand to know and fairly easy, but Spencer is easier than it looks

Then again, I learn new hands for fun - there's clearly something wrong with me! :-)

[blogslut]

47. I am left-handed

I was able to write in cursive but doing so never felt comfortable. My teachers allowed me to tilt my paper as opposed to forcing me to do that hand-cramping, write-from-above thing. When I got free from mandatory cursive I wrote strictly in print, foregoing lower-case letters completely. Eventually, my handwriting developed into a mix of cursive & print, with a smattering of inappropriate upper-case letters.

On the other hand (haha) blogslut Jr. has Hemiparesis thanks to Cerebral Palsy. For her, print-writing is next to impossible. Her handwriting is in cursive because the process is easier for her. Needless to say, I am quite thankful that cursive handwriting was a part of her elementary education.

[Goblinmonger]

54. Your daughter is a great argument for differentiated instruction

Most people will not need to use cursive. A few do.

[Fleshdancer]

61. I'm also a lefty who does a mix of print and cursive

I'm in my 30's and I still can't get a hang of the whole paper tilt thing, but I can't do the upside down/cramped hand thing either. Basically, I can't write with a pen without smearing the side of my hand with ink (and part of the paper if the ink doesn't dry fast).

My world opened up for me as a kid when I discovered my mother's typing text book. I remember sitting at her typewriter every day after school (by choice!) teaching myself how to type. I can't stand to write and I refuse to do it if I don't have to.

[blogslut]

70. Well, for me

I also had to train myself to grip the pen or pencil farther away from the tip. I found that the overhead/hand curl smudged up the page more. As well, during my teen years, I wrote in the dreaded "backhand" direction. Eventually, my writing developed into a slight right-ward tilt.

[KonaKane]

59. As if basic ed and the humanities aren't suffering enough...

You want to chew away at them more?

I have never seen such a spelling/grammar challenged lot as kids actually graduating High Schools today. It's friggin' atrocious, how they attempt to express themselves. We need more education when it comes to this, not less.

Have you ever seen a hand written letter from, say, the 1920s or 30s? They are just beautiful. What happened to that art? What is happening to us when we can't even manage to spell correctly, and are reduced to texting lingo?

[REP]

67. Handwriting forges a connection to words and writing that keyboards can't

Not that I don't think that keyboards aren't valuable tools - far from it! I just think many would benefit from the process of creating words and sentences beneath their fingers; the extra time allows for a little more thought and a little more time for patterns (speliing, phonetics, syntax, etc) to sink in during the early learning years; as more proficiency is gained, keyboarding allows the same, only faster. Just my opinion, and I love writing by hand, so my opinion may be very skewed.

[pitohui]

76. i wonder if YOU have a seen handwritten letter from the 20s...

they are not just beautiful and absolutely no one knew how to spell, unless you are talking only about the fine letters (meant to be kept and admired down through the ages) of a very tiny circle of privileged people

don't believe me, go to the flea market sometime in the country and flip through a box of antique postcards written by "real" people, not the handwritten letters of f.scott to zelda, but actual scribble from actual people -- good for you if you can make out half the words, they're pretty much illegible and half the time you only know what the meaning is because you know what it "must" say

many people in the 1920s including my own kin were completely, entirely illiterate, my grandmother died in her 90s unable to read much less write a word and it wasn't because she was stupid

when you compare today's kids to yesterday's kids, be sure that you're being honest with yourself, today we attempt to educate ALL kids, all kids have to read, write, and do basic math -- kids today are head and shoulders above where we were in the past, from what i've seen

maybe i only see the smart ones, who knows...

[KonaKane]

81. Plenty. I have my great grandmother's hand written letters

to her fiance who was thousands of miles away on a religious mission at the time. Not only were her sentiments beautiful and beautifully stated, but wonderfully written and a joy to see. Pretty good for a woman with a ninth grade education at the time.

It is no fantasy that the quality of our education has gone down the tubes. Recently I even saw an exam given to 8th graders back in the late 1800s, that was posted online. The site was challenging people to see if they could answer all the questions. Most failed it. Even double degree holders didnt do very well with it.

I will honestly tell you that I find the expressional skills of today's kids horrifying. They are graduating kids who cannot construct a cogent paragraph. You may find something admirable in that, but I do not. We should be moving in a direction back toward a good liberal humanities based education - not away from it.

[Old Troop]

65. Cursive only? Don't they teach the kids block lettering first?

[mzteris]

72. according to Montessori -

they learn to read print, they learn to write cursive.

It really IS confusing - just as you "master print", you're asked to "write cursive".

My younger (11) was originally in a Montessori program, his cursive was really nice. We moved to another school for 2nd grade, where they didn't want him to write cursive - no one else was - and he struggled going back to print. When he DID get to "cursive" - what he'd learned wasn't what the same as the school he was in so he was getting grief - until I had a chat with the teacher.

I shouldn't complain - his print and his cursive are very neat . . . AND he can do it in TWO languages fluently.


(My older one? 16) He's dysgraphic - print, cursive, you name it - it's pretty illegible. Except his Traditional Mandarin - that's written neatly!)

[LanternWaste]

66. I thought typewriters spelled the doom of penmanship...

I thought typewriters spelled the doom of penmanship...

Computers were going to make us a paperless society. Computers were going to make books obsolete. Computers are the death knell of the television. Except... the book I'm reading is on the television set covered with a newspaper. :shrug:

[miyazaki]

68. fuck that! get rid of the computers! n/t

[proteus_lives]

69. I weep.

I love cursive.

[NutmegYankee]

71. Fine with me. First thing they do in Engineering is teach you to write in print.

Cursive doesn't really have a practical purpose these days. Pens do not dry if lifted from paper, and we type so many documents that speed of handwriting is a moot point.

[WinkyDink]

95. You don't take many written exams, do you? I had students ask for "extra time" because they could

only print, like an elementary-school child.
I said no.

And try printing-only on checks and documents.

[NutmegYankee]

101. Actually I did.

I took several AP classes, like AP history and AP Government where I had to write 4 essays in 20 minutes and one major essay in 15 minutes. And Yes, I print on checks.

Engineers are taught to use print because only print is used to annotate drawings. It's part of any basic introduction to engineering course.

On Edit: My signature remains in cursive.

[comrade snarky]

73. It's an outrage

can not believe anyone would consider allowing an archaic mode of communication fade away!


(you would not believe how difficult it is to post using vellum)


:edited to be funnier

[pitohui]

74. yeah cursive is a waste of time

actually i'm not sure if the younger people i know can use cursive, there is just no reason for it, we are in a print/typing society these days -- i remember asking one of my young relatives and he said he couldn't, he either printed or typed, as he was online from the early single digit ages...

my handwriting is barely legible even to myself, and i was taught to have beautiful penmanship when i was a tiny child but all for naught...the older you get, and the more you scribble, the worse your cursive handwriting ends up anyways...look at doctor's RX if you want to know more and they go thru a LOT of school to get that shitty handwriting :-)

if you are in the graphic arts or some other kind of artist, you could learn decorative writing (calligraphy) which is all any cursive really is any more, no reason for every student in a chair to waste time on it

as someone else points out, they may have taught us morse code, but it mattered not, because almost none of us remember anything except how to send an SOS, unless you're actually in the service or something, you're not going to remember all that

kids need to learn subjects that didn't even exist in elementary school in my day, like simple computer programming skills or at least how to use email, they really don't have time to waste with cursive...it's even less useful than sewing/home ec, a truly useless skill in a world where the ingredients to sew your own clothing (any kind of decent fabric) is WAY more expensive than just buying ready-made clothes off the shelf

we're pretty much given up on classes in home ec, i think cursive can go next

[Maru Kitteh]

84. I'm not in favor of further erosion of the precious little we ask of students

in regards to the proper use and care of the only language we truly ask them to be proficient in. It's ridiculous. Keep cursive, and while we're at it, how about a return to a greater emphasis on spelling and grammar?

[Book Lover]

87. Y'all are so happy to lose a skill, then fine

Rejoice that you're getting less skilled. Be happy that you can't quickly write down something someone says. Makes *perfect* sense to me.

[KonaKane]

88. Unbelievable isn't it.

I expected to see people cheering on the idiocracy over at Freep Republic or some wingnut blog, but certainly not on DU.

[WinkyDink]

97. I KNOW! It's like "Ah, the good old days when King John could sign Magna Carta with just an 'X'!"

None of that messy CURSIVE for HIM!

[WinkyDink]

93. I completely disagree. Typing-only is a short-sighted and puerile approach to adult communication.