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Debt crisis = big cluster****, profits go to finance capital.

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 06:46 PM
Original message
Debt crisis = big cluster****, profits go to finance capital.



Most of the countries in the world are in debt: to whom is all the money owed?

"Everybody" owes "everybody" -- untangle this & you'll find finance capital = ultimate beneficiary.

"In a crisis, money returns to its rightful owners" (andrew mellon, capitalist)
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. kik
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. k
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MIprogressive Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. damn, idk how to fix this shit....
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It seems Andrew Jackson had the answer..
Edited on Mon May-10-10 09:12 PM by girl gone mad
some 180 years ago. Substitute "paper money" with the credit now created out of thin air by private banks:

"The paper system being founded on public confidence and having of itself no intrinsic value, is liable to great and sudden fluctuations, thereby rendering property insecure and the wages of labor unsteady and uncertain.

The corporations which create the paper money cannot be relied upon to keep the circulating medium uniform in amount. In times of prosperity, when confidence is high, they are tempted by the prospect of gain or by the influence of those who hope to profit by it to extend their issues of paper beyond the bounds of discretion and the reasonable demands of business.

And when these issues have been pushed on from day to day until the public confidence is at length shaken, then a reaction takes place, and they immediately withdraw the credits they have given; suddenly curtail their issues; and produce an unexpected and ruinous contraction of the circulating medium which is felt by the whole community.

The banks, by this means, save themselves, and the mischievous consequences of their imprudence or cupidity are visited upon the public. Nor does the evil stop here. These ebbs and flows in the currency and these indiscreet extensions of credit naturally engender a spirit of speculation injurious to the habits and character of the people. We have already seen its effects in the wild spirit of speculation in the public lands and various kinds of stock which, within the last year or two, seized upon such a multitude of our citizens and threatened to pervade all classes of society and to withdraw their attention from the sober pursuits of honest industry. It is not by encouraging this spirit that we shall best preserve public virtue and promote the true interests of our country.

But if your currency continues as exclusively paper as it now is, it will foster this eager desire to amass wealth without labor; it will multiply the number of dependents on bank accommodations and bank favors; the temptation to obtain money at any sacrifice will become stronger and stronger, and inevitably lead to corruption which will find its way into your public councils and destroy, at no distant day, the purity of your government. Some of the evils which arise from this system of paper press, with peculiar hardship, upon the class of society least able to bear it...

Recent events have proved that the paper money system of this country may be used as an engine to undermine your free institutions; and that those who desire to engross all power in the hands of the few and to govern by corruption or force are aware of its power and prepared to employ it. Your banks now furnish your only circulating medium, and money is plenty or scarce according to the quantity of notes issued by them. While they have capitals not greatly disproportioned to each other, they are competitors in business, and no one of them can exercise dominion over the rest. And although, in the present state of the currency, these banks may and do operate injuriously upon the habits of business, the pecuniary concerns, and the moral tone of society, yet, from their number and dispersed situation, they cannot combine for the purpose of political influence; and whatever may be the dispositions of some of them their power of mischief must necessarily be confined to a narrow space and felt only in their immediate neighborhoods.

(snip)


It is one of the serious evils of our present system of banking that it enables one class of society, and that by no means a numerous one, by its control over the currency to act injuriously upon the interests of all the others and to exercise more than its just proportion of influence in political affairs. The agricultural, the mechanical, and the laboring classes have little or no share in the direction of the great moneyed corporations; and from their habits and the nature of their pursuits, they are incapable of forming extensive combinations to act together with united force. Such concert of action may sometimes be produced in a single city or in a small district of country by means of personal communications with each other; but they have no regular or active correspondence with those who are engaged in similar pursuits in distant places. They have but little patronage to give the press and exercise but a small share of influence over it; they have no crowd of dependents about them who hope to grow rich without labor by their countenance and favor and who are, therefore, always ready to exercise their wishes.

The planter, the farmer, the mechanic, and the laborer all know that their success depends upon their own industry and economy and that they must not expect to become suddenly rich by the fruits of their toil. Yet these classes of society form the great body of the people of the United States; they are the bone and sinew of the country; men who love liberty and desire nothing but equal rights and equal laws and who, moreover, hold the great mass of our national wealth, although it is distributed in moderate amounts among the millions of freemen who possess it. But, with overwhelming numbers and wealth on their side, they are in constant danger of losing their fair influence in the government, and with difficulty maintain their just rights against the incessant efforts daily made to encroach upon them.

The mischief springs from the power which the moneyed interest derives from a paper currency which they are able to control; from the multitude of corporations with exclusive privileges which they have succeeded in obtaining in the different states and which are employed altogether for their benefit; and unless you become more watchful in your states and check this spirit of monopoly and thirst for exclusive privileges, you will, in the end, find that the most important powers of government have been given or bartered away, and the control over your dearest interests has passed into the hands of these corporations.

The paper money system and its natural associates, monopoly and exclusive privileges, have already struck their roots deep in the soil; and it will require all your efforts to check its further growth and to eradicate the evil. The men who profit by the abuses and desire to perpetuate them will continue to besiege the halls of legislation in the general government as well as in the states and will seek, by every artifice, to mislead and deceive the public servants. It is to yourselves that you must look for safety and the means of guarding and perpetuating your free institutions. In your hands is rightfully placed the sovereignty of the country and to you everyone placed in authority is ultimately responsible. It is always in your power to see that the wishes of the people are carried into faithful execution, and their will, when once made known, must sooner or later be obeyed. And while the people remain, as I trust they ever will, uncorrupted and incorruptible and continue watchful and jealous of their rights, the government is safe, and the cause of freedom will continue to triumph over all its enemies.

But it will require steady and persevering exertions on your part to rid yourselves of the iniquities and mischiefs of the paper system and to check the spirit of monopoly and other abuses which have sprung up with it and of which it is the main support. So many interests are united to resist all reform on this subject that you must not hope the conflict will be a short one nor success easy. My humble efforts have not been spared during my administration of the government to restore the constitutional currency of gold and silver; and something, I trust, has been done toward the accomplishment of this most desirable object. But enough yet remains to require all your energy and perseverance. The power, however, is in your hands, and the remedy must and will be applied if you determine upon it."
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. internal financing. it's how japan's financed most of its debt. that way it's
Edited on Mon May-10-10 09:23 PM by Hannah Bell
either domestic capitalists financing economic expansion -- or the state. or the savings of workers.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. What if we all declare bankruptcy simultaneously?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. that would actually be a good solution. it's much like the usual capitalist solutions,
which are:

1) bankrupt most workers & small capitalists, big capital picks up their property & restarts the game, or

2) capitalists go to war, the winner picks up the good properties & makes $$$ "reconstructing" the losers
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. kik
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. It seems like the perfect solution to me.
Just wipe the whole damn slate clean. Nobody owes nobody and nobody can repossess nothing. All debt, public and private -- gone. Won't happen, but it would be a revolutionary solution.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Networks with multiple nodes are complex, who knew.
Next you'll be telling me that some countries manage their finances better than others. Incidentally, I am from one of the countries in this graph, and the citizens and the government they elected bear just as much responsibility as the banks they were dealing with.
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