Want to know what Creationism and Anti-Science buys us?

[RagAss]

Our children and grandchildren will clean the toilets and carry the bags of Chinese and Indian scientists and technology workers for the next 200 years. That's what it fucking buys us.

There is no greater responsibility of an American than to put a fucking end to this shit right now !!!!

Whatever it takes.


spelling on edit

[Lerkfish]

1. not sure I understand the connection.

there is no causal factor in your assertion.

[RagAss]

2. The promotion of fables to explain reality, instead of science.

That's my "causal factor".

[Lerkfish]

8. I thought you were assigning economic consequences to philosophical viewpoints

although they may correlate, they are not causal.

Industries that outsource are the real cause of the problem. Our technology jobs have gone overseas and our scientists and technologists have seen a dwindling job market.

[Synicus Maximus]

25. Would that be the fables about the Buddah or Vishnu?

[RagAss]

26. like dinosaurs roaming the earth 6,000 years ago

[canetoad]

27. Grokked ya

first time :thumbsup:

[FiveGoodMen]

3. I think it's: If we teach irrationality to ourselves and our kids, we'll have no one that can cope

with the realities of the modern world.

[RagAss]

4. need more evidence

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8296001

[HughMoran]

5. Losing technical prowess has no effect on our ability to be a technological leader?

Did you miss the point of the post?

[Lerkfish]

6. outsourcing is not a result of a lack of qualified american technology experts

its a function of a ruthless business model.

[HughMoran]

7. This isn't about outsourcing, it's about education

You did miss the point.

[Lerkfish]

10. oh perhaps. but when the OP contains this phrase

"Our children and grandchildren will clean the toilets and carry the bags of Chinese and Indian scientists and technology workers for the next 200 years."

That appears to imply an economic condition rather than an educational one.

and I still maintain the OP is positing a false dichotomy: You can still have creationism and still have scientists. Our society is not monolithic, thank (insert deity of choice here)

[BlancheSplanchnik]

31. seems like the economic condition is a logical result of the educational one.

to me.

You can have creationism, but when creationists aggressively try to alter school curricula ..... I see a problem with that.

[Duppers]

16. if this country takes the 'palin path', it will be. nt.

nt.

[Zoeisright]

12. Yes there is. If we don't teach logic and critical reasoning,

then we will start failing in science, research, and mathematics. And we'll fall behind other countries in development of new treatments, energy sources, and technologies.

[Odin2005]

9. in my experience many religious nutters with science interests go into engineering or medicine...

...because they won't have to deal with things like evolution and cosmology that "go against their faith". And it seems like a lot of engineers tend to be very close-minded wingnuts.

[GoneOffShore]

11. Some of the wackiest commenters on Pharyngula are engineers.

[HughMoran]

14. Ahhh, nothing like a nice little bit of engineer bashing

much appreciated...

[GoneOffShore]

30. Only reporting here.

The other wacky commenters are computer programmers.

I know some engineers who are not crazy fundies.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. Is there a divine order of who is supposed to clean who's toilets?

I agree with the ultimate aim of the OP but am shocked by the mode of argument.

Is there some persuasive reason that Chinese and Indians cleaning American's toilets is better than the other way around?

Seems a messed up way to think about things.

[RagAss]

17. Wow ! Talk about turning an apple into an egg.

[FiveGoodMen]

18. I would think that, ideally, the Chinese and the Americans would each clean their own toilets

If one is subservient to the other, something has gone wrong.

[dionysus]

29. i am unsure even why that was what you brought away from that post.

:shrug:

[Duppers]

15. amen to the spirit of your post

Folks here are arguing details, but the fact stand that if we do not educated our children in scientific and technological fields we shall lose our standing as a world power.

When our population cannot compete on the world market, outsourcing cannot then be said to just be an economic policy, but rather a necessity.

The economic health of this nation is, as it has been repeatedly pointed out on DU, depends on the economic health of all its citizens, not the corporations reaping the profits of outsourcing to cheaper labor.

China is putting vast investment into their education institutions---even 'outsourcing' from the U.S. They know the importance science and technology (vs. our anti-science/religious bias).

-------
Many Nations Passing U.S. in Education, Expert Says

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/education/10educ.html

[RagAss]

19. Thanks for cutting to the gist of it. The image I used was a hook...

to elicit responses like yours, and evoke a discussion on the dangers of letting our educational system go the way of the Dark Ages.

But DU being DU.....It turned into yet another mindshitting mess !

[Bert]

20. Stop nitpicking

The point is that if we continue to decline in the education of our own we will have to continue to import talent. Look at the education of the us compared to the rest of the industrialized countries. Even if we could somehow maintain some power through manufacturing we would still be a nation of idiots. People who do not believe in the tenants of science furthermore should then reject science. Good luck. It may work to a limited extent for the amish but they rely on us in too many ways to call themselves a free nation. Also I dont like the thought of our nation turning into a theocracy which would be the next logical step.

I agree that our worship of corporatism has already made us sell out good jobs that can be outsourced, hiring cheaper foreign labor for both low skilled and high skilled jobs. There does come a point however where we have to produce our own talent and by promoting religion and being skeptical about basic scientific principles like global warming and evolution we turn into a laughing stock. At some point when the religious nutters take over most intelligent people will decide it is time to leave, and they will be right.

I want to see us tax churches, teach real science and not creationism, stop invoking god, invest heavily in education and stop looking at higher education as some kind of elitist plot. You can argue around the edges but we are becoming more and more backward as a country, look at the texas school curriculum if you dont believe me and show me how many atheist members of governement there are. If you have a goal of becoming more and more like the taliban keep going.

[Enthusiast]

22. Thanks, Bert. Nice post. nt

[Duppers]

28. "Stop looking at higher education as some kind of elitist plot"

YES!

I've bumped into some people like that! It's some times subtle, but the attitude's there, even on 'liberal' forums.

[BreweryYardRat]

21. "There is no greater responsibility of an American than to put a fucking end to this shit right now"

Correct, but "start working to put a end to this shit sometime in the near future" is more realistic.

While there are methods that could put an end to this creationism shit in less than a decade, they're ethically/morally unacceptable.

Instead, we'll have to fix the educational system to promote critical thinking. That'll help the next few generations. Meanwhile, we need to work on weakening the political power held by Churchie ideologues and the more intelligent evil people who manipulate them.

[Enthusiast]

23. You're pretty bright for a rat, lol. +1 nt

[tavalon]

24. That's rather optimistic

I'm not at all sure there will be much technology by then.