I think the stock-market "error" spin is bald-faced LIES...

[CoffeeCat]

I don't believe that the market plummeted 1,000 points today, and finally
ended up closing around 350---due to a "glitch" or an "error."

I'm sorry, but "Oops! I didn't add right!" just doesn't add up. Literally.

Wall Street is trying to prevent further selling. They only win if we play.

So, they pacify us by concocting this theory about a glitch--in order to prevent
further selling (and spark more buying).

Pay no attention to the instability in Europe and around the world. Forget that our
unemployment is out of control and much worse than is being reported. Never mind
that we're in the midst of a deep recession, in which consumers have drastically
reduced spending in all areas. Pay no attention the real forces that may be
tanking the market. It was some guy who made an incorrect calculation.

You have to suspend reality for this "glitch theory" to be accurate. Are we
supposed to believe that this was one of the first times that such an error
was made? If this was just one person making a simple math mistake--we're supposed
to believe that the entire process was error-free up until this point? A simple,
meaningless error can bring down the entire house, but up until now--we've been
perfect?

Oh please.

Remember. This theory was first spun by Jim Cramer, the PR clown who had ADMITTED
that he is totally in the tank with the Wall Street financial elites. It's his job
to sell their stocks. He's their mouthpiece.

I would consider not believing this "glitch" theory. It sounds like spin from
the Wall Street vampires who need your blood to survive.

[Inuca]

1. Sen. Warner talking about this

in the Senate right now.

[Oceansaway]

2. i agree...n/t

[Taverner]

3. Wondered that myself

It seemed like the kind of thing that would happen if there were a compelling event. It even went up just a little, during its freefall

But maybe it was a glitch - what can I say? I know next to nothing about finance. I only know computers and data trends

[Rex]

4. The Matrix has no glitches, that was supposed to happen.

Did you take the red or blue pill?

[mikeytherat]

9. I had a really weird sense of deja vu, but it was actually pretty cool.

I got to see this cat walk by a few times; I wish it had happened more. I like cats.

mikey_the_rat

[golddigger]

5. Yep! n/t

[aquart]

6. Wall Street wins if we trade, I thought, They lose if we hold tight to our stock.

They get a cut of every buy or sell. As long as there's action, there's money for them,yes? If we don't sell our stuff THEY lose but we probably end up just fine. Yes? No?

[onenote]

11. yes.

Further proof that most opinion and advice about the markets posted here at DU should be taken with an enormous grain of salt.

[CoffeeCat]

13. No, they lose if we sell or completely get out...

Selling means that there are downward pressures on stock prices. That translates
into lower stock prices. Shares are worth less. Companies are worth less.

Sure, they might make fees with trades, but selling means stock prices tank.

When the market tanked in 1929--no one was joyful about making
more trades, as people exited the market and sold off.

[aquart]

28. So the answer is, don't sell.

The stock prices are irrelevant if YOU HOLD YOUR STOCK. When you say "no one was joyful" who is "no one"? In 1929, the idiots were killed with margin calls. Wiped out by that downward pressure which demanded immediate payment. People who didn't own on margin kept their stocks unless forced to sell by other pressures.

A company making a necessary item which is not mostly in debt may be worth less, but it can afford to keep making the item unless demand completely tanks because everyone else was in horrific debt.

Buying on margin is dangerous. People assuming that risk deserve to go under. We've legalized a lot of insanity and then act shocked when our lives go crazy because of it.

The stock market is legalized smartassery and I am not impressed with it.

[nc4bo]

7. !

:tinfoilhat:

It's bizarre and I won't/can't be buyin' what they're sellin' either.

Not yet anyway.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

8. A typo has resulted in massive stock losses before-Japan in 2005

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10394551/

"Japan’s government rebuked the Tokyo Stock Exchange and one of the country’s biggest brokerage firms Friday after a typing error caused Mizuho Securities Co. to lose at least 27 billion yen ($225 million) on a stock trade.

The error roiled the Japanese market, while jitters over the reliability of the exchange’s trading system contributing to a 1.95 percent drop in the benchmark Nikkei 225 index Thursday.

...

The trouble began Thursday morning, when Mizuho Securities tried to sell 610,000 shares at 1 yen (less than a penny) apiece of a job recruiting firm called J-Com Co., which was having its public debut on the exchange.

It had actually intended to sell 1 share at 610,000 yen ($5,041).

Worse still, the number of shares in Mizuho’s order was 41 times the number of J-Com’s outstanding shares, but the Tokyo Stock Exchange processed the order anyway.

Mizuho says it tried to cancel the order three times, but the exchange said it doesn’t cancel transactions even if they are executed on erroneous orders."



I'm not sure about today. But yes, a typo has screwed up stock markets before.

[KittyWampus]

21. Now, now. Why accept an explanation that jives with FACTS (low trading volume when it happened)

when a perfectly good conspiracy theory can garner so much more outrage and help DU'ers display so much more cynicism.

[CoffeeCat]

26. All financial media are downplaying "glitch" now...

As I said in another post--I'm flipping around and watching all news channels.

Every talking head is now saying that this could be a sell off.

As I type, Cramer just said that a glitch like that would not have caused a 1,000 point
drop.

I'm no Cramer fan, and the financial media is just spin for their cocktail pals on Wall Stree.
However, even THESE charlatans are saying that the "glitch" theory doesn't pan out.

Could low volume and significant drops be due to government selling?

[girl gone mad]

39. NYSE denied the reports of a glitch, Citi denied the reports of trader error.

What other "FACTS" do you have?

By all accounts that I'm hearing, this was a genuine market correction, not an accident or computer gone haywire. Glitches and trader mistakes happen with regularity. They are not regularly accompanied by large price declines in the midst of major currency, debt and sovereign default crises.

No need to accuse those with more insight than yourself of being conspiracy theorists.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. FACTS... you dare bring FACTS?

:hi:

There are systemic reasons for the drop but a glitch is human

[Robbien]

10. A crock of smelly shit

The story is someone tried to buy 15 mil e-mini futures, but typed 15 bil. And the trade went through.

Now usually only about 50 mil e-mini futures are traded in one day. But today someone was able to buy 15 billion of them? And someone sold 15 billion of them? All in ten minutes.

Yeah right.

[DJ13]

12. If you're right, it shows how desperate the situation is

This "not a" sell off has eliminated any confidence the retail investors might have had.

Now they know that theres no chance of betting against the machines running that crooked casino.

[RKP5637]

15. Yep, exactly, "...betting against the machines running that crooked casino." n/t

[RagAss]

14. Uhhhhh.....everything is fine...just a keying error...no problem....what is wrong with you folks?...

[readmoreoften]

16. I've heard now they're calling it a "fat finger" problem.

That someone typed b-illion instead of m-illion. Really? Is this guy the first broker with a wide finger? Has there never been a zero out of place on Wall St.? They must be joking.

[Beetwasher]

17. That Precipitous Drop Was Abnormal, If There Is A Sell Off, It Is Not So Vertical

Sell offs do happen, but if you look at them, they are not so uniform and so quick. So, I don't know if what they are saying is true or not, but that drop off does not look like any sell off I've ever seen. It was a 900 point plummet in a matter of moments. That just doesn't happen.

I'm inclined to think there was some kind of system glitch or error, or maybe a hack or some other sort of manipulation, which in itself is frightening enough. But I'm inclined to think it was NOT caused by a massive sell off.

[liberal_at_heart]

20. Yes sometimes the truth is just as scary as conspiracy theory

I don't know whether it is a glitch or manipulation. I'm not sure we will ever know if it was truly a glitch or if it was manipulation. But I'm just going to ride it out just like any other drop. Unfortunatly I don't have alot of cash on hand or I would be buying right now.

[Raine]

18. I don't believe it either, not for a second

it's total BULLSHIT, they're covering up.

[KittyWampus]

19. Then explain why the volume when it happened was so very low. YOU CAN'T.

[CoffeeCat]

24. They're backtracking now on that "glitch" theory...

Are you watching the news? I've been flipping around between CNN, CNBC and
local news. The financial talking heads, including Jim Cramer, are all saying
that this could be one of the biggest sell offs.

They've gone from "This is a glitch" to "Ok, maybe it is a big sell off."

I would think--that if this was an error, that would be crystal clear
by now.

Even Jim Cramer has backed off from the "glitch" theory.

[girl gone mad]

25. The entire run up has been on low volume.

There is no support in this market.

[Cali_Democrat]

22. Dow was down 1,000 points at one point, intraday!

Madness!

Putting your money in the stock market is "investing"? :rofl:

Stick to bonds, and commodities like gold.

edit:

Now they're saying the problem came when someone sold a shit load of S&P e-mini futures and not when someone fat fingered selling proctor and gamble stock. :wtf:

Novbody knows what the hell happened. Some people are blaming hackers.

[taught_me_patience]

23. Over course it is

Professional trading tools don't allow these kinds of mistakes to happen.

[Statistical]

30. Windows never crashes, Toyotas never go out of control, and oil rigs never exploded.

I mean humans are perfect and software is perfect code written by perfect humans.

You honestly think some traded wanted to sell Accenture at $0.04. It was a market order for billions that brought the stock that low.

So much selling pressure (on no news) that it wiped out the buyer stack. Ever single buy order executed (buy @ $40, buy @$30, buy @ $8, buy @ $1.00, buy @ $0.04).

For a span of about 2 seconds there was no buy order. Nobody on the planet thought Accenture was worth anything. Any order would have executed. Even $0.000000000000001 per share. If you would have timed it right you could have turned $100 into a billion in a matter of minutes.

The seller sold all the way down losing billions.

The stock recovered right back to $41 minutes later.

You honestly think that was intentional and not a failure in the system?

[TomClash]

27. How many times can I recommend this? nt

[LanternWaste]

29. I'll usually defer to ignorance or a mistake before malicious intent

I'll usually defer to ignorance or a mistake before malicious intent. Overall, we appear to be a lot dumber than we are malicious.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

31. That is quite silly

Do you have a theory of what actually happened between 2:40-2:43?

The tape action has to be explained somehow.

If there was sufficient sentiment to drop the market a thousand points in two minutes *for real* then all the money in the world could not have brought it up 700 points in 2-3 minutes. Even infinite money would have had to chew through a brazillion sell orders.

The magnitude of sell orders implied by the drop were... not... there.

[bergie321]

38. No theory

But I am betting it was somehow Obama's fault. Faux News is probably already calling this "Obama's Black Friday".

[Odin2005]

32. Assume everthing Cramer says is a LIE.

[HipChick]

33. It's pretty easy...computers..

not that unbelievable..

[cbdo2007]

34. If you were watching this when it happened....what happened CAN'T happen

without a glitch.

Accenture went down to .01 - you think that happened naturally???

If it wasn't a glitch it would have been a steady fall to wherever....it wasn't, it was down 300 and then all hell broke lose and it bounced around anywhere from 350-1000 for the next 10 minutes...that doesn't happen naturally.

[TexasObserver]

36. Disagree. It looks more like an accidental error or a purposefully input error.

The market loves certainty and hates uncertainty, so tomorrow will be choppy from the opening bell.

Even if it was a mistake, and an accidental one, it's still evidence that the market is highly vulnerable to the input of new data on a real time basis.

[Johonny]

43. I'm leaning towards intentional cyber attack

It has all the signs of a hacker to me. Which maybe why they are voiding the attacked stocks at the time of the attack. Might never know for sure if it was intentional of accident. But there is at least evidence certain countries try cyber attacks all the time. So it's not out of the realm of possibility. Who knows at this point. Certainly the motion of the market was non-real.

[HughMoran]

37. I think you're wrong on this

Please read some of the newer posts on this topic about how Accenture stock went from $42 to $0.01 to $41 due to a computerized trading "issue".

[easilynervous]

40. agreed...will remember as

I have seen cases where I bought the msm spin and those skeptical of it were accurate.

[HughMoran]

41. Except Rachel is showing each glitch that happened - oh, and there were quite a few fuckups

Ooops

[northernlights]

42. look at the currency activity today

I read a number of articles at work tonight (sloooow night). The most intriguing one looked at currency activity -- looks like big currency players were making some big changes right around the time the market went haywire.

Another article said to see what gold does tomorrow and Monday -- if it jumps $40 or so, then people are bailing.

[volvoblue]

44. let me put my shiney new face,er, 2 cents in.

new here.
anyway, you'd be amazed by how much has been because of human error. Plain mess ups, typos, wrong word, ect.
look at Julia Louie Dryfuss and her star.
It may seem like a simple typo could not set that off but, really, it is hardly unusual

[hulka38]

45. You don't have this extreme kind of volatility unless

the network of world economies is itself unstable. No one really trusts anyone else. There is no rock, no foundation.