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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:31 PM
Original message
List Of Countries W/ Compulsory Identification Cards
List Of Countries W/ Compulsory Identification Cards

I looked for this info a week or so ago just for the sake of curiosity, not to prove any point. Maybe some other DU'ers might be interested. I am reposting this.

From Wiki so I won't swear it's complete or accurate.

Albania
Argentina
Belarus
Belgium
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazil
Bulgaria
Chile
People's Republic of China
Republic of China (Taiwan)
Colombia
Croatia
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Egypt
Estonia
Germany
Greece:
Hong Kong
Hungary
Israel
Jordan
Kenya
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Latvia
Madagascar
Malaysia
Malta
Morocco
Montenegro
Mozambique
Netherlands
Pakistan
Peru
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Serbia
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Africa
South Korea
Spain
Sri Lanka
Thailand
Turkey
Ukraine
Venezuela
Vietnam
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. What's your position on this?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Ambivalent. I can argue both sides.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm surprised that Japan is not on the list
but maybe the Japanese police still visit each house regularly and know who lives where.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. How many of those countries have such id
that is not tied to health benefits? That is, do any of the nations listed that you would like to be compared to both require a National ID and deliver no universal health care to those who hold ID? Now there would be an interesting number, it would be zero. The National Health makes ID important. Without it, what is the point, really?
Now. How many of those use 'bio metric' IDs? And how has it been working for them?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Which countries require an ID to work?
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. For a non-citizen -- I'd bet almost all.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Does this pertain to Biometric id cards?
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Good article on biometrics:
<snip>

Our Major Concerns

Biometric technology is inherently individuating and interfaces easily to database technology, making privacy violations easier and more damaging. If we are to deploy such systems, privacy must be designed into them from the beginning, as it is hard to retrofit complex systems for privacy.
Biometric systems are useless without a well-considered threat model. Before deploying any such system on the national stage, we must have a realistic threat model, specifying the categories of people such systems are supposed to target, and the threat they pose in light of their abilities, resources, motivations and goals. Any such system will also need to map out clearly in advance how the system is to work, in both in its successes and in its failures.

Biometrics are no substitute for quality data about potential risks. No matter how accurately a person is identified, identification alone reveals nothing about whether a person is a terrorist. Such information is completely external to any biometric ID system.

Biometric identification is only as good as the initial ID. The quality of the initial "enrollment" or "registration" is crucial. Biometric systems are only as good as the initial identification, which in any foreseeable system will be based on exactly the document-based methods of identification upon which biometrics are supposed to be an improvement. A terrorist with a fake passport would be issued a US visa with his own biometric attached to the name on the phony passport. Unless the terrorist A) has already entered his biometrics into the database, and B) has garnered enough suspicion at the border to merit a full database search, biometrics won't stop him at the border.

Biometric identification is often overkill for the task at hand. It is not necessary to identify a person (and to create a record of their presence at a certain place and time) if all you really want to know is whether they're entitled to do something or be somewhere. When in a bar, customers use IDs to prove they're old enough to drink, not to prove who they are, or to create a record of their presence.

Some biometric technologies are discriminatory.A nontrivial percentage of the population cannot present suitable features to participate in certain biometric systems. Many people have fingers that simply do not "print well." Even if people with "bad prints" represent 1% of the population, this would mean massive inconvenience and suspicion for that minority. And scale matters. The INS, for example, handles about 1 billion distinct entries and exits every year. Even a seemingly low error rate of 0.1% means 1 million errors, each of which translates to INS resources lost following a false lead.

Biometric systems' accuracy is impossible to assess before deployment Accuracy and error rates published by biometric technology vendors are not trustworthy, as biometric error rates are intrinsically manipulable. Biometric systems fail in two ways: false match (incorrectly matching a subject with someone else's reference sample) and false non-match (failing to match a subject with her own reference sample). There's a trade-off between these two types of error, and biometric systems may be "tuned" to favor one error type over another. When subjected to real-world testing in the proposed operating environment, biometric systems frequently fall short of the performance promised by vendors.

The cost of failure is high. If you lose a credit card, you can cancel it and get a new one. If you lose a biometric, you've lost it for life. Any biometric system must be built to the highest levels of data security, including transmission that prevents interception, storage that prevents theft, and system-wide architecture to prevent both intrusion and compromise by corrupt or deceitful agents within the organization.
Despite these concerns, political pressure for increasing use of biometrics appears to be informed and driven more by marketing from the biometrics industry than by scientists. Much federal attention is devoted to deploying biometrics for border security. This is an easy sell, because immigrants and foreigners are, politically speaking, easy targets. But once a system is created, new uses are usually found for it, and those uses will not likely stop at the border.

With biometric ID systems, as with national ID systems, we must be wary of getting the worst of both worlds: a system that enables greater social surveillance of the population in general, but does not provide increased protection against terrorists.

<snip>

Sec. 403(c) of the USA-PATRIOT Act specifically requires the federal government to "develop and certify a technology standard that can be used to verify the identity of persons" applying for or seeking entry into the United States on a U.S. visa "for the purposes of conducting background checks, confirming identity, and ensuring that a person has not received a visa under a different name."

http://www.eff.org/wp/biometrics-whos-watching-you
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Riftaxe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Like height, weight, eye and hair color?
I seem to remember seeing that on one my identification cards, but it sounds much scarier when you call it biometric...polysyllabic words do seem to be menacing to some.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Do current ID's contain your DNA?
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SPedigrees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'd rather have a permanent ID card than be forced
to drag my fragile old original paper documents out in public on repeat occasions. After what I went through to locate and present my 60 yr old birth certificate, our 40 year old marriage license, and my 44 yr old social security card to get an enhanced photo driver's license, I do hope that those ancient documents can spend their remaining sunset years in the safety of my home, undisturbed.

Considering that my direct ancestor arrived on these shores on the Mayflower, I find it insulting beyond measure to have to prove my citizenship with multiple paper original documents. Excepting those of native American ancestry, no one in this country has a greater claim to citizenship than I. I can only imagine the outrage of those citizens, and immigrants, in Arizona, being forced to carry this library of documents with them everywhere they go.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Add Mexico to that list
the IFE card serves that role.

That said, we already have a national ID card, we call it a Social Security Card...

How I feel about it? I don't know, but we already have one.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. That is an interesting mix of countries. No Canada, Australia or UK - other English speaking
country? Most European countries are on it, but some big ones are not (France, UK, Italy, Switzerland). No Scandinavian countries are on the list.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Except for the fact that those countries DO have a very special National ID card
It's their HEALTH CARE COVERAGE CARD..and that wonderful card entitles them to "free" health care wherever they are within their country..no questions asked..no co-pays..no hassles

While it may not be a "citizenship" card, it's a "national ID card", in that only people with legal status are issued those cards:)
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Can't argue with the beauty of a Health Care Coverage Card. I assume by "National ID" the meant
something more multipurpose like employment eligibility, voter registration, etc. Since Health Care Coverage Cards would indicate citizenship or legal residence, it could be used as a defacto National ID. I wonder if any of these countries require people to have their Health Cards with them at all times and use them as proof of citizenship or legal residency.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'd bet it's a multi-faceted ID
and the resistance to it here is the ace-in-the-hole for pols who know they will never really have to deliver on :
legitimate elections
universal health care
realistic immigration policies



as long as they have the yahoo-libertarian types screaming and hollering about a "gol-durned ID card" and resisting one in all cases, we'll never advance beyond the arcane systems we have in place now..
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