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The Fundies are winning the war...

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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 07:10 AM
Original message
The Fundies are winning the war...
Edited on Sun May-02-10 07:16 AM by boston bean
Two weeks ago, the governor of Nebraska signed a law that banned most abortions after 20 weeks on the theory that thats when the fetus can feel pain. But as Caitlin Borgmann, a City University of New York law professor, wrote in The Los Angeles Times, There is nothing approaching a scientific consensus on fetal pain at 20 weeks gestation.

On Wednesday, Mississippis Legislature sent a bill to the governor that forbids public financing of abortions. The prohibition stands even in cases of severe birth defects.

Tuesday, the Oklahoma Legislature overrode a gubernatorial veto to pass two abortion laws. One requires women, even those seeking to end a pregnancy resulting from rape or incest, to have an ultrasound and have the fetus described to them. The other prevents mothers from suing doctors who withhold information about fetal birth defects.

And on Friday, the Florida Legislature passed a bill also requiring all women seeking an abortion to undergo an ultrasound. Even if the women dont want to see the image, the doctor must still describe it to them.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/opinion/01blow.html?p...

Anyone who thinks there is no way in hell Roe could be overturned are not looking at the big picture, imho. The op ed goes on to explain how women under thirty and men over sixty five with college educations are responsible for the drop for those who favor choice.

The fundies have done a magnificent job of re-defining choice as pro life. It is a purposeful twisting of what choice is. Their twisted argument goes something like this. Pro life (anti-abortion under any circumstance) is a choice. Well it is their choice to be that, but they leave no other choice for anyone else, so NO, it is not choice. I hear people buy into this argument all the time. The fundies have gotten a lot of people to believe that if one would not have an abortion themselves as a personal belief but would not force that on another person, that they are pro life. That is not the case. A person who believes that no women should have an abortion under any circumstance is anti abortion.

In the climate the fundies have created, it makes people feel good about themselves, to define themselves, personally as pro-life, even if they are pro choice. Like abortion is some dirty evil deed that they would never consider for themselves. They get people to beleive that because they would not have an abortion themselves, that they are pro life, even if they wouldn't force that belief on others. But that is not was pro life is. Pro life = anti abortion for anyone. It has weakened the choice platform and strengthened the pro-life/anti abortion platform.

I have a real hard time explaining this, maybe some others can give their insight.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. It fascinates me that some people can say
"I support abortion in cases of rape, incest, or life of the women - but elective abortion is wrong". They frequently will describe 'elective abortion' as murder, and they call themselves 'pro-choice'.

That logic makes no sense at all. Why isn't it murder to abort a pregnancy that is the result of rape or incest? Why isn't it murder to abort because the woman's health is endangered? Not all fetuses are created equal, I guess . . .

The line is only fuzzy because people have twisted it into knots. You either support a woman's right to choose - or you don't. All of these 'special circumstances' have done nothing but dilute that right by implying that at its base, abortion is wrong and needs to be justified.

Personally, I'm so sick of it that I could spit. People need to get off the frickin' fence. I support a woman's right to choose. My body. My choice. No conditions.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, they have really done a number on repressing women in this country.
Most people will say they are against abortion or abortion as birth control.. but for extreme cases, they think the option should be legal. However, they don't understand that the Pro-Life crew wants all children born... then they sit around bitching about paying for "other" people's kids..
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Or next on the chopping block is contraception. nt
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. Winning the last election wasn't enough.
We are still a conservative nation. It's going to take a lot more work to swing this nation back to the center (and hopefully even farther to the left).
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. When are the "real Christians" going to
do something about these lunatics?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's easy to understand. The left is wasting all their time and energy attacking the Dems
and the President instead of focusing on the REAL enemy. The right has enjoyed not having the left oppose them.
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. My big question revolving around abortion is this:
Edited on Mon May-03-10 08:17 AM by melm00se
at what point does the fetus become eligible for human rights?

I view abortion as, fundamentally, an issue regarding the supremacy of rights. Whose rights are "superior" and which and "subordinate"? When does the translation between the 2 occur?
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ChickMagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. This is what gets to me about them
We both want the same thing. Pro-choice folks believe that
comprehensive sex education is a proven way to prevent
pregnancy and therefore prevent abortion.

The "pro-life" folks don't want sex education at all
therefore causing unwanted pregncancies and abortions.

I think they do this to increase the number of abortions
so they can attack it. I think there's just more to it
than a puritan attitude about sex.
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