Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Dem Immigration Bill Unveiled - National ID Card

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:39 PM
Original message
Dem Immigration Bill Unveiled - National ID Card
Edited on Thu Apr-29-10 07:44 PM by IndianaJoe
I certainly hope there's more to it than this.

Democrats pushed forward on an immigration overhaul on Thursday evening with no Republican support, as Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) continues to hold out, arguing that the divisive issue will make progress on climate change legislation impossible.

The Senate is also in the middle of debating Wall Street reform, which is expected to take up the next few weeks of floor time. Reid, however, said that the chamber would be able to handle the task. "We can do more than one thing at once," he said.

The Democratic proposal includes increased money for border patrol and drug war agents, equipment, helicopters and unmanned drones. It would create a national ID -- which is dubbed a "biometric social security card." Though Democrats insist that it is not an ID card and can only be used for employment purposes.

The proposal would also include a crackdown on employers who hire undocumented workers. It works to deport some immigrants who are not in the country legally and creates a limited pathway to citizenship for others.

Democrats brought out their heavy hitters for the announcement: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.); Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.); Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), who's been leading the push for immigration reform; Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.); Judiciary Committee Chairman Pat Leahy (D-Vt.) and Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.).

The crackdown on employers relies on the creation of national identity cards. "These cards will be fraud-resistant, tamper-resistant, wear resistant, and machine-readable social security cards containing a photograph and an electronically coded micro-processing chip which possesses a unique biometric identifier for the authorized card-bearer," reads the bill summary.

Broadly, the proposal includes:

1. More Border Patrol officers
2. More Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents, worksite inspectors, document fraud investigators and drug-war agents
3. The "installation of high-tech ground sensors throughout the southern border and for equipping all border patrol officers with the technological capability to respond to activation of the ground sensors in the area they are patrolling."
4. More prosecution of drug smuggling, human trafficking and unauthorized border crossing
5. Increases in the number of sport utility vehicles, helicopters, power boats, river boats, portable computers to track illegal immigrants and drug smugglers while inside of a border patrol vehicle, night vision equipment, Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS), Remote Video Surveillance Systems (RVSS), scope trucks, and Mobile Surveillance Systems (MSS)."
6. All prisoners will be checked for immigration status and deported if found to lack documentation.
7. DHS will "identify, investigate, and initiate removal proceedings" against folks who came here legally but didn't leave.
8. The bill would create "a broad-based registration program that requires all illegal immigrants living in the U.S. to come forward to register, be screened, and, if eligible, complete other requirements to earn legal status, including paying taxes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. NOTHING wrong with a national ID card.
But I agree that there need to be more to contain immigration. . .I think there should be a new law severely punishing EMPLOYERS of illegal immigrants!

Why should they go scotch free???? They are the ones who attract continued illegal immigration of good, well intentionned people and then screw them and treat them like criminals!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Issuing everyone who is a citizen, a US passport would do the trick
a small card with pertinent info as well.

It would simplify voter registration and provide the best ID you could ever ask for..

If we can afford non-stop wars, surely we could get every US citizen a passport.

if we EVER want to have truly universal single payer health care there will HAVE to be proof of eligibility, and passport does the trick.

and if you are offered a free trip to Tahiti (like we were :) , you;re good to go)

Americans are the least "passported" people in the advanced country-community

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I think what they have in mind is sort of a credit card type
Edited on Thu Apr-29-10 08:18 PM by IndianaJoe
thingie...that you run through a machine that is checked through a humongous data bank. The trouble with it is:

1. Errors
2. Counterfeiting
3. Creeping use and abuse
4. State's Rights/Federal Rights issues
5. Social Libertarian issues
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes, the advantage of a National ID card vs a passport is that it is
MUCH smaller (the size of a driver license really. . .with all the information to prove your citizenship or your legal status (i.e., resident alien with a green card. . .as I am).

Passports get messed up more quickly and are not as convenient to carry on your person all the time.
But maybe a national ID card could include all the needed passport information and therefore serve as a passport too!

Either way, I am used to National ID cards. . .most of Europe has had National ID cards obligatory for over 60 years. . .no big deal. . .when you move. . .you need to get a new ID card so the government knows about your change of address. It also allows you access to a bunch of benefits. . .including free public transportation for senior citizens (over 60) and free or low cost entry to all museums, parks, etc. . . Even the stores (all stores) usually give senior citizens a 5 or 10% discount on regular prices just by showing your national ID card!

A good deal, really! Never hear ANYONE complain about having to carry one in Europe!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. They already have a Passport the size of a drivers licence
They created them when they wanted to require passports for going to Mexico or Canada, since a lot of people go back and forth frequently on those borders, a more convenient passport was needed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I didn't know that and never saw one! The last passport that was issued for
my husband was just the regular kind. . .but with a chip in it (as it is now standard world wide).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
55. Yes, but they are not valid for air travel.
I am not aware of any practical reason why they couldn't be, but one has to consider the coordination with other nations on the standards.

High tech revisions end up being very costly to poorer countries.

Let's let them pay off the expenses incurred by the last revision before we dictate new standards *again*.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. PLENTY fucking DEAD WRONG with national id cards
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Sounds like you are an avid Infowars fan!
Your comment is interesting. . .but just "saying" something with no factual back up doesn't carry much weight!

Could you elaborate about the "plenty wrong" of National ID cards?
And have you ever lived in a country who has used national ID cards for several decades???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Because it's so incredibly obvious it doesn't require 'factual back up.'
Where've ya been the last ten fuckin yrs?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Where have you been the last 15 months???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. No shit there is..I am STAGGERED at the number of sheep that fall for this...
...I have better idea..instead of a national id card why not micro-chip everyone here instead? That way you can be scanned anytime you are out in public, or even at home if the cops use scanners, YEAH this is a GREAT FUCKING IDEA...

No, no..wait...let's all get barcodes tatooed on our forearms or our foreheads..

This is SUCH a bad idea, it is open to incredible abuses and no-one seems to get it...

I am amazed at what I am reading on DU these days..it's almost like staring through the looking glass..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. The degree of contempt and sneer from those in favor of these speaks volumes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
59. Is this irony or sarcasm?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Logical next step: Require it for voting.
After all, it proves citizenship and you don't have to carry it 24/7, so what's the problem?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
47. Why would that be bad?
Anything that makes elections more open and transparent is a good thing.

Hell I would love to see Voter registration ended completely.
Your national ID would confirm eligibility to vote and if you feel like voting you show up on election day and vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. The claim is it's only for employment
In practice it would be like drivers license and social security number -- too handy to pass up for other ID uses.

I can argue either side of the thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. If it were only for employment it wouldn't part of the immigration bill.
It's a national ID Card.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Northerner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. National ID? Aren't our SS#s being used already?
Edited on Thu Apr-29-10 07:45 PM by The Northerner
I don't know about this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr Morbius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ditto. Makes me uncomfortable. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Well, I'm reserving judgment. But here's the downside:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. That 1996 Article on a National ID Card Sure Was Prescient .....
I have lots of concerns over the Government collecting any more information on its citizens than it already does today.

Information is power. Power to control. And any Government Agency or Government Official who is given that power will likely not give it up voluntarily, and thus it will be subject to abuse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. They're calling it "REPAIR":
No reforms kick in until border "benchmarks" are met; an 8-year path to "legal status" for 10.8 Million aliens who haven't committed a "crime". No mention of National ID Cards.



"Seeking to woo Republicans, the 26-page framework, which has not yet been written into a formal bill, emphasizes first taking steps to limit illegal immigration before offering new rights for those here illegally. But the REPAIR (Real Enforcement with Practical Answers for Immigration Reform) proposal, as Democrats dubbed it, also would create a pathway to legal status for an estimated 10.8 million people who are already in the country illegally, an idea opposed by many conservatives.

Under the proposal, illegal immigrants currently in the United States would be eligible for legal status in eight years, as long as they learned English, had not committed a crime and paid their taxes. The federal government would increase funding for border security and require all American workers get a new version of their Social Security card that would include a biometric identifier to protect against the creation of counterfeits.
It doesn't kick in until some border "benchmarks" are met. Sets out an 8-year citizenship path to illegals "who have never committed a crime". Here's the Washington Post article. Dems are upbeat; Repubs opposed; but little about what the specifics are going to be:

"I say to my Republican colleagues, work with us to fix this broken system, don't just say no," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) in a Thursday evening press conference.

In a statement released by the White House, Obama called the proposal "a very important step in the process of fixing out nation's broken immigration system."

But the only Republican who had been negotiating with Democrats on the issue, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), criticized the proposal, saying "it is our belief that Congress should focus on border security first," in a joint statement with Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), the No. 2 Republican in the Senate.

And House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio.) dismissed the proposal as a"cynical ploy to try to engage voters, some segment of voters, to show up in this November's elections." Republicans have suggested Reid is pushing the bill to gain the support of the large segment of Latino voters in his state, where polls showing him flagging in his re-election campaign."

There is not a chance that immigration is going to move through the Congress," Boehner said. "You cannot do a serious piece of legislation of this size, with this difficulty, in this environment."

Reform Immigration for America, a group helping organize rallies this weekend to promote legislation similar to what the Democrats are proposing, praised the outline and called on both the Obama administration and the Republicans to embrace it.

"This is not a political game, and Republicans can not simply be the party of obstruction. They must offer solutions," the group said in a statement. They added, "The White House must play a stronger and more high profile role."

Senate Democrats say it was vital for Congress to pass new immigration soon in the wake of the passage of a controversial law in Arizona that allows calls on local and state law enforcement to question people about their immigration status if there's reason to suspect they're in the country illegally, and which makes it a state crime to be in the United States illegally.

"The urgency of immigration reform cannot be overstated," said Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), one of the main authors of the proposal.

Obama told reporters on Wednesday there may "not be an appetite" in Congress to get immigration done this year.

And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was similarly noncommittal on Thursday, saying "the legislation will have to begin in the Senate. And she passed the baton back to Obama.

"If there is going to be any movement in this regard, it will require presidential leadership," she said.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. The idiots will be creating another 'broken' bureaucracy to fix the problem...
This shit doesn't work.

They can't even get everyone to do it here in the UAE to do it (a nation of 4 million) where you have full coercion powers (they can stop your banking and even your visa). And, at the end of the day illegals are STILL illegals and the cards are essentially useless pieces of plastic as you already have a scannable visa for entry and exit of the country.

EXCEPT that the gov. now has too much information on you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. Yes. And SS#s are stolen regularly
I don't know what to think about this issue.

SS#s were originally supposed to be used *only* for very specific, government-only purposes. Use-creep left them vulnerable to theft, and now there are international identity theft rings dedicated to stealing them. I can't help but wonder if that is what is partly what is behind the biometric national id drive -- the mafia, the russian mafia, and al qaeda are all trying to steal identities on a mass scale.

On the one hand, an ID card seems like a creepy invasion of privacy. Can't go *anywhere* without the government knowing about it.

On the other hand, as a victim of identity theft (my SS#, former and current address and phone, education and work history all stolen and sold to whomever in California, thanks to inside theft at HP and Fidelity), a biometric identification that can't be duplicated/stolen and that makes stolen SS#s irrelevent seems like a good thing for the millions like me (and that could be you, too, any day now).

We can't get back our SS# identities -- once they're stolen, they're gone for good. But making them irrelevent to identification could help put that nightmare that affects millions right.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'd like something done about the stupid laws handling
Edited on Thu Apr-29-10 08:03 PM by IndianaJoe
Temporary Protective Status; some of the idiotic penalties for committing "crimes of moral turpitude"; the treatment accorded to unintentional voter registration; the problems with "reopening" removal orders; the laws addressing family separation; the treatment accorded to drug offenders; etc. etc.

To me, if the above is a synopsis, it looks like a lot more of what's on the books now with the added fillip of a National ID.

We'll see, I guess.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Identity cards? Again? LULZ.
Yeah, it's not like those can be forged or anything.

*sigh*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. This ain't good people. The cards are microchipped meaning they can track your every move.
The government doesn't give a shit about illegal immigration.

They only care about controlling all of us and turning us into peons that will work for chump change and be grateful for it.

We should all be fighting this crap tooth and nail! :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. You wanna loosen that tin foil hat?
Edited on Fri Apr-30-10 12:40 AM by SpartanDem
Just about every European country has a national id, indeed most advanced industrial nations, and they've had them for decades. No one was being tattooed with bar codes last time I checked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. One difference, Europe is way ahead in terms of restrictions and privacy laws
Except for Britain, of course. But most of Europe has heavy restrictions on what information industry can keep. And the more you restrict data gathering by industry, the less of that data the government can get it's hands on, so they end up with identification and information capability for things like health care, but the government has little ability to follow your buying habits, politics, creditworthyness, etc.

I don't think we can stop information technology from changing our lives. It is here to stay. But what we can do is restrict the use of that technology and information so that it leans toward individual freedom and away from abuse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Well, they don't use scans of the back of your hand, like I've heard they want to do here ro
in France, people there are protesting the addition of biometric info to the existing national ID cards. Sorry, these cards are bad news imo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. You might want to read George Orwell before you start defending this shit.
What fucking right does the government have to track our every move?

NONE! :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #30
43. Wow! It took all of 30 posts before the ghost of Orwell was resurrected
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #43
60. Waiting for the H guy to show also.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. Yeah and most European countries have massive intrusional surveillance..
Edited on Fri Apr-30-10 02:23 PM by truebrit71
..I for one am NOT happy about this idea because it is open to all sorts of abuses..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. I thought it was mostly Britain, are the other members also placing
cameras on street corners and not placing limits to information gathering and corporate intrusion? I thought most European countries had more privacy protections. For instance, I do know that in many European countries credit agencies cannot keep nearly as much information on people, and employers don't have the right to spy on personal emails at work? But maybe it is changing?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Um, only when you use them. Just like a conventional SS card.
It's a microchip. Not an RFID.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. Won't that be just WONDERFUL for us homeless folks?
And, of course, all of you liberals will come to our aid, just like you are with the Arizona mess, right?

Maybe you can watch us be executed in the village square. That would be a lot kinder than harrassed continually because we don't have an address to get your beloved card.

:nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. They have WANTED this fucking ID card with biometric info and are using Arizona to do it
Wanna bet the Dems are in cahoots with the AZ assembly?

I figured they'd unveil this shit.

Arizona is political theater. This ID card is the goal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Mission Accomplished
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. Spooky!
Spooky! Spoooky ID Card! Spoooooky!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #35
45. Actually, it is
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
17. National ID is a nightmare... How do I know? UAE has been implementing it for the last 4 years
and even with a country that only has 4million people you might as well be herding cats.

Key points:

1- It's expensive (want to waste billions more setting up the infrastructure to do this?)
2- They charge! Cost is about $40 for the POS
3- It takes time to load biometrics. You thought waiting for a DL was bad, wait to see if they try a national ID.
4- No matter what you do, you will NEVER get full compliance.

Oh yeah and the last little point. Just how long do you think it will take someone to forge and/or hack one of these??? I give it about 48hr in the US.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
20. If this is true, yuck. I do not want a biometric ID card.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
22. Mark of the BEAST !! Mark of the BEAST!!
Tell your teabagger and fundie acquaintances and relatives - they'll get right on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
architect359 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
48. ...talk about pouring gasoline on fire. eom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greencharlie Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. bad idea... nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
36. I actually think a national ID Card makes sense. It certainly would have helped when I used to get a
hard time buying booze with an out-of-state ID, because I looked young.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. That's just great...

now tell me about that 'lesser evil' thing again.

Police state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
44. And this is coming from
Democrats? They really have taken the Republicans place (who have since moved to the insane asylum) renewing the patriot acts and all that other invasion of privacy BS, voting for an individual mandate for a private, corporate product, and now they're pushing national ID cards?? FUCK. THEM. and their freaking ID cards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. It's odd how not many here care to weigh in on this
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. OK, I'll bite and weigh in on this......
I HATE THE IDEA OF A NATIONAL ID CARD!!!

This scares the hell out of me on so many levels!!! We have spotted that "perfect parking space" in the parking lot of fascism, and we're in a mad dash to get that spot before someone else takes it.

IMO
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
50. A Federal Identity Card. One more step toward a police state. How do you think Republicans
Edited on Mon May-03-10 03:05 PM by Better Believe It
will use that when they regain control of the Presidential Mansion?

Everyone will be fingerprinted.

Everyone will have their pictures taken.

Everyone will be required to show the cops or other government police agents their identity card on demand.

And if you can't show it you'll be detained and perhaps fined.

To "stop terrorists" states might require you to show your ID papers before you cross over into their state. State border checkpoints.

Nice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Look at the record of Big Bro techno abuses of just the last ten yrs...
How often is the cover story/propaganda one thing, and the actuality of application the complete opposite?

Remember how the illegal spying on Americans (and specifically anti-war people/groups) went from 'a few calls coming from outside the country' to wholesale netting of info from millions?

But, Trust Us ;)

Amazing
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
52. There are some credible reasons for a national ID card but lying raises red flags
This solution doesn't fit the problem of the hiring of undocumented workers. I don't know how many have changed jobs since 9/11 but you now have to present a state ID and your Social Security card, a passport, or several other kinds of ID.

There does not appear to be any massive issues of undocumented workers using identity theft or borrowed paperwork but rather the problem is that undocumented migrants are being hired under the table at reduced wages and without benefits.

This idea makes me uneasy because leadership is selling bull here and that indicates they want these cards for some totally other purpose or are too out of it to even know what laws they've already passed.

If they really wanted to crack down on illegal employment then they'd drop the charade and have stings at Lowe's, raid farms at harvest and planting time, and match paperwork already required with employees on site.

This call for a new card does absolutely nothing about the actual problem and seems more a Trojan Horse than anything else. They are telling a bold faced lie that this is to make sure undocumented workers aren't hired since that process is already in place and reputable employers (and even most far less so) are sticklers to the point if you have to use a SS printout that they will only give you a couple weeks to produce the actual card.

This is a solution looking for a problem and we should all be wondering what that is and why they are pitching bullshit to get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Bingo! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
53. Bump
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
54. Help, it's the police!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
58. Link?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
61. wouldn't it be easier to just use those radio transmitter tags?
Like the ones used for wildlife management? Or some kind of tracking chip injected into our necks or something? That way, the government can make sure to track our every move, and the only way to steal someone's identity would be to cut the chip out of their neck and re-implant it.

You could tie it to survival tokens, so that your National Life Account could be charged every time you get food or any kind of goods or services. And if you get into a negative balance situation, you'd be indentured to your corporate masters until you work it off or die trying.

That seems like a much more sensible way of keeping everything under control than some kind of silly card.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Jul 24th 2014, 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC