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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 10:53 AM
Original message
The Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America

http://counterpunch.com/levine04282010.html


A Conversation with Robert Whitaker


In 1987, prior to Prozac hitting the market and the current ubiquitous use of antidepressants and other psychiatric drugs, the U.S. mental illness disability rate was 1 in every 184 Americans, but by 2007 the mental illness disability rate had more than doubled to 1 in every 76 Americans. Robert Whitaker was curious as to what was causing this dramatic increase in mental illness disability. The answers are in his new book, Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America (Crown Publishers, April 2010).

Whitaker’s findings will create a problem for both Big Pharma and establishment psychiatry, but his credentials and his craftsmanship will make it difficult to marginalize him.

-snip-

Whitaker: The rise in the disability rate due to mental illness is simply the starting point for the book. The disability numbers don’t prove anything, but, given that this astonishing increase has occurred in lockstep with our society’s increased use of psychiatric medications, the numbers do raise an obvious question. Could our drug-based paradigm of care, for some unforeseen reason, be fueling the increase in disability rates? And in order to investigate that question, you need to look at two things. First, do psychiatric medications alter the long-term course of mental disorders for the better, or for the worse? Do they increase the likelihood that a person will be able to function well over the long-term, or do they increase the likelihood that a person will end up on disability? Second, is it possible that a person with a mild disorder may have a bad reaction to an initial drug, and that puts the person onto a path that can lead to long-term disability. For instance, a person with a mild bout of depression may have a manic reaction to an antidepressant, and then is diagnosed with bipolar disorder and put on a cocktail of medications. Does that happen with any frequency? Could that be an iatrogenic pathway that is helping to fuel the increase in the disability rates?

So that’s the starting point for the book. What I then did was look at what the scientific literature -- a literature that now extends over 50 years -- has to say about those questions. And the literature is remarkably consistent in the story it tells. Although psychiatric medications may be effective over the short term, they increase the likelihood that a person will become chronically ill over the long term. I was startled to see this picture emerge over and over again as I traced the long-term outcomes literature for schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, and bipolar illness. In addition, the scientific literature shows that many patients treated for a milder problem will worsen in response to a drug-- say have a manic episode after taking an antidepressant -- and that can lead to a new and more severe diagnosis like bipolar disorder. That is a well-documented iatrogenic pathway that is helping to fuel the increase in the disability numbers.

-snip-

Whitaker: A journalist friend of mine, who was a long-time reporter at the Washington Post and Newsday, said that he too was reminded of Silent Spring when he read Anatomy of an Epidemic. And, in fact, I was stunned by much of what I found when I was researching the book, and I did at times become overwhelmed by the magnitude of the tragedy. Let me give a specific example. When you research the rise of juvenile bipolar illness in this country, you see that it appears in lockstep with the prescribing of stimulants for ADHD and antidepressants for depression. Prior to the use of those medications, you find that researchers reported that manic-depressive illness, which is what bipolar illness was called at the time, virtually never occurred in prepubertal children. But once psychiatrists started putting “hyperactive” children on Ritalin, they started to see prepubertal children with manic symptoms. Same thing happened when psychiatrists started prescribing antidepressants to children and teenagers. A significant percentage had manic or hypomanic reactions to the antidepressants. Thus, we see these two iatrogenic pathways to a juvenile bipolar diagnosis documented in the medical literature. And then what happens to the children and teenagers who end up with this diagnosis? They are now put on heavier-duty drugs and often on a drug cocktail, and you find that they do poorly on that treatment. You find that a high percentage end up “rapid cyclers,” which means they have severe “bipolar” symptoms, and that they can now be expected to be chronically ill throughout their lives. We also know that the atypical antipsychotics prescribed to bipolar children cause a host of physical problems, and there is pretty good evidence that they cause cognitive decline over the long term. When you add up all this information, you end up documenting a story of how the lives of hundreds of thousands of children in the United States have been destroyed in this way. In fact, I think that the number of children and teenagers that have ended up “bipolar” after being treated with a stimulant or an antidepressant is now well over one million. This is a story of harm done on an unimaginable scale.

-snip-

Whitaker: Big Pharma and their partners in establishment psychiatry have smartly used Scientology to defuse criticism of their medications. I honestly believe that if Scientology weren't around, then our society could have a much more rational discussion about our drug-based paradigm of care. As for the position taken by MindFreedom and other psychiatric survivors, I basically do think that is the right one to take, with two caveats. In order to make a “truly informed choice,” a person needs to know the long-term effects of a treatment. It’s not enough for people to be fully informed about the immediate “side effects” of a drug. People need to be presented with information about whether such treatment has been shown to better the long-term course of the disorder, or worsen it. They need to be told about long-term physical and cognitive problems that often arise with every day use of psychiatric drugs. So providing people with a “truly informed choice” is a tall order.

-snip-
-------------------------------


in a nut shell, big pharma barons make you crazy and broke

and today's teachers/schools have to deal with the outcome

and today's cops/jails have to deal with the outcome

and families/mothers have to deal with the outcome

not good. none of it is good.

actually it's a crime.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. well it's clear that people are becoming steadily more deranged
I don't mean that in a flip way, either. The pressures are increasing, and people are less and less able to cope with them...
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. I've noticed that too. I think all of us are at least a little depressed...rop
the pressures do seem enormous. As a woman, I feel so much pressure to look a certain way at all times, to be slender, to exercise and be in shape, to have a perfectly clean home at all times, to cook gourmet meals, to be a sparkling and happy companion at all times, to be sexy even though I am going through menopause and could not care less about sex most of the time, and of course women have to have careers (not just jobs) and have the right possessions and have perfect children.

Whew. Needless to say I do not meet any of these standards and what's more, I'm getting increasingly pissed off that I'm expected to play so many roles. I'm old, tired, cranky, not in great health, and I'm giving a big eff-you to the world these days.

Yeah, I'm depressed, too. And I isolate myself, don't have friends. Which makes me more depressed. But I can't have friends because I can't live up to the roles I'm supposed to play and I'm worried any friends would judge me for my home not being perfect or the fact that I don't work outside the home or...you name it.

Lately I just really hate life here in Amerikkka and I remember a time when it wasn't this pressured and competitive. I remember when my mothers friends would - instead of having to present a gourmet meal to friends with ten courses - just throw together some lasagna and salad and garlic bread and break out the beer and boy that was a great get-together. These days? Oh my, days of worry about what wine to pair with what course.

I hate life now. I really do.

end of rant, back to your usual programming.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Live for yourself and your family, Nobody else matters.
Though there will be friends along the way who will surprise you. And living a semi-reclusive life is not a bad idea as long as you have enough interesting things to do at home to keep your mind busy.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. hang in there, LiberalLoner
... there are similar pressures on men, and as a single dad, even more: i.e., make enough money for food/shelter for all, have time for self (as you said, to look good, dress well, etc.), have time for kids, keep house looking nice, pay all bills and banks, etc., etc...

Kind of a treadmill...

Notice I can lapse into isolation on days when my kids are at their moms, though, and I do think lack of community -- real community -- is a big issue for Americans...

We probably oughtta have more DU meet-ups, actually, of like-minded folk...
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Oh, I wish so much we could have meet-ups. I just wish I felt I could fit in somewhere. rop
I'm an Army wife, and all the friends my husband have from work are very right-wing and usually real Pentacostal bible-thumpers too. I just don't fit in with that crowd at all and being around them drains me rather than sustains me.

I just feel so lonely sometimes. Coming here helps. I don't feel as alone here. I used to do volunteer work but my knees are giving out on me and I'm not in good health in general so I don't volunteer, so I just...I sort of wish I could just become an alcoholic and then maybe I could spend my days hanging out in bars with other drunks and then I wouldn't be alone.

It sounds like your life sucks too, with the pressures. I wish there weren't so many darn standards we all have to live up to. I wish we could just be ourselves. God I miss the 1960's and the whole freedom from standards thing.

Wishing for a better and happier life for all of us.
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
50. What does 'rop' mean?
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. I'm sorry, it means "read on please" I use it when my post continues n/t
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. That's fine, but if you're the only one that knows what it means, you probably needn't bother.
Sorry you are so stressed out, but you are doing it to yourself, and I think you know that. You have to know that you are a good person and act like you do. Others won't be able to tell the difference!
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Yes...I wish I were better at not being so hard on myself. I wish I could figure out how to
feel more confidence. I just don't know how to be different than what I am.
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #63
75. Well, I shouldn't be giving advice as I have my own problems...
Just remember to love and respect yourself. Other than that, screw all the assholes!
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. LOL! That's a good motto. I always think, the people who are mean, aren't worth having around n/t
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StarlightGold Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
56. Hang in there
I totally relate to being pressured to "Keep up with the Jonses". Maybe not with material things, but even smaller things like keeping a perfectly clean/straightened house and how could you even think about skipping the kids games to stay at home and recharge? I've let go of a lot of the guilt in recent years but that comes to different people at different times. You do have us!
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Thank you so much! I love you guys more than I can say. I know that's an odd thing to say, but
it's really true. I read the posts here every day and say to myself how wonderful and smart and good people here are. I feel so connected to you guys even though I'm just here in cyber land.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
80. No, you don't really wish that.
Becoming an alcoholic will only increase your problems, not solve them. You don't mention if your husband is supportive. If he is, then screw his friends and the rest of the world too. Do not live life for others, be yourself. In the long run, who cares what people may think of you? Do they pay your bills, comfort you when you're sick or feeling down? Probably not, those are not real friends. A real friend is there for you through thick and thin and doesn't give a rat's ass whether you cleaned the house before they came.

Think what you enjoy doing and see if there's a group in your area that shares those same likes. There's an infinite amount of places to meet and make friends. The key is to go out and find them. You have to take the first step, no one will knock on your door.

Have faith in yourself and a sense of humor about life and you will soon make plenty of friends.

Here's a big hug for you.

:hug:
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Thank you so much. :) I'm reaching out to my neighbors as a first step :) n/t
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #82
97. Good for you!!!!
Every trek starts with a first step.

Best of luck and don't let the turkeys get you down........



:hi:
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Wow - can I relate to your post. I am just so tired of the rat-race.
I feel like I just want to go to sleep for about 6 months. I wish I could live in Europe for a while - I never felt any of this pressure there (well, maybe in Paris). Hang in there - you aren't the only one who feels exactly the same way you do. I would bet there are a lot more of us than you think. :hug:
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Thank you so much. :) I'm sorry to know others are suffering but on the other hand
Edited on Wed Apr-28-10 12:01 PM by LiberalLoner
it feels good to know others see this too, that I'm not just crazy.

I just feel like rebelling. I think - I think I am going to invite the neighbor lady who is from Afghanistan orginally, over for dinner. I think I will just for one day stop worrying if my house is decorated nicely enough and worrying that my thighs are too big. I think I will just make a nice simple meal like my mother used to make, and some homemade bread, and a nice dessert, and not worry if it's fancy enough.

I think I will just try this, just try to buck the standards and see what happens.

Because I am so darn tired of it all. Part of me wants society to collapse just to end this insanity.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. A lot of people, at some level, want society to collapse because
...things are personally unsustainable for them (and, they correctly suspect, for everyone else, too).

Modern politics really boils down to a choice between "soft landings" (those we view as the "good guys," more or less) and "hard landings" (tea baggery, etc..)

We all need a reboot!

Meanwhile, a simple meal with homemade bread sounds fantastic! That's a lucky neighbor!
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Thank you. :) I am going to do this before my courage vanishes (I am very shy) and I will
Edited on Wed Apr-28-10 12:11 PM by LiberalLoner
let you guys know how it went, if you are curious. I hope she will say "yes" to dinner. I met her once and I liked her. I've just been too shy and anxious to invite her over. Sometimes I think most of my ancestors were drunks because maybe they were wired like me, just too darn anxious and scared all the time for no reason.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Well, I dropped a note off at her door inviting her over, asked her if she would
like to come over to dinner sometime, to give me a call, and I gave my number. Anyway I hope that it works and that she will want to come over for a simple dinner. :) I've just been so lonely. I have the right-wing friends from my husband's work but being around them only makes me feel even more lonely.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. Fantastic! You have just made a big step to being part of the solution!
We need to stop worrying about living up to impossible standards and just resume being humane to one another! You did a very brave and wonderful thing.

One of my favorite old poems/songs, corny as it is, perhaps you are old enough to recall the writer and the words. I think they are timely, and I offer them back to you as a toast to your courageous venture to break bread and break down a part of the wall that keeps too many lonely:

Simple Gifts

Though the gift be small and simple
if the wish is wide
just the simple gift of giving
makes you warm inside.

Though the thought is ever fleeting
if a thought at all
remember all the mighty big things
started out as small.

So if you’ve a gift worth giving
let it be your smile
let it be a kindly word
that makes a stranger stop awhile.

Let it be a simple gift then
if the wish is wide
just the simple gift of giving
makes you warm inside.

© 1965 by Stanyan Music & Rod McKuen
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Oh, thank you so much! You brought tears to my eyes with this beautiful poem/song! Thank you! :)
I was feeling like a real dork after I dropped the invitation off, I was thinking, oh, is she going to think I'm really weird? But you know, I've been weird my whole life, I just can't seem to be normal like everyone else, I've always been an INFP and therefore very fundamentally different, and I guess the only thing I can do is just be myself and hope that's good enough, and hope that there is room on this earth for my kind of weird. :)

Thank you again, your post was so kind, and really helps me to feel more courageous. :)
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. Re weird v normal: What passes for 'normal' isn't all that great these days
My daughter says the worst thing one can say about you would be to call you normal!

oh, and check your inbox.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. LOL! Your daughter is smart! :) Thank you again :) n/t
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
79. Not dorky at all! At one time, that would have been considered "neighborly"! n/t
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #45
78. Great, LL!
May it be a joyous breaking-of-the-bread...
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. Thank you so much! Keeping my fingers crossed she will call n/t
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. I'm actually thinking a proposal for potluck "salon dinners" among DUers
...might not be a bad thing...

Rotating houses to host, small gatherings, everyone brings a dish...

Maybe foment some actual off-line community that way...?
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
113. Don't worry, you are not crazy...
There is quote by Krishnamirti that I love, it goes "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted in a profoundly sick society." (I was paraphrasing, but that's pretty close.) What you are feeling is a healthy reaction to a heavily f**ked-up world. Unfortunatey, for those of us who are sensitive, it can be very painful.

BTW, I think your dinner idea sounds wonderful!!
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
54. Okay, I've decided, everyone is invited to my place for some BBQ and a love-in! :) Wish I could
do that for real. :)
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. I would be there with bells on, carrying wine, flowers, and dessert!
Then, after dinner, we could go door to door, installing front porches on every house in America, so people can sit out and visit with each other more. :hug:
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. :) I remember sleeping out on the deck in summer as a kid with my cousins...oh
gosh those were good memories. Imagine that, if we could just invite people over to sleep on cots all around the deck, to stay up late talking.

I was in the Army. And you know, it wasn't a good match for me personality and talent-wise, but I loved how close I got to feel to people in training situations and in the field and during Desert Storm. I do miss that closeness with others. I don't know how to recreate that in my own life.
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
77. I understand how you feel, LiberalLoner.....
and here lately, feel just like you do.

'Amerikkka' (LOL!) has really done a number on us, hasn't it!

Now, back to Giant Eagle to pick up the items I forgot to get this morning...DAMN, I hate when I do that!

:hug:
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. Oh, I do that too, if I don't make a list I'm hopeless, LOL :) n/t
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. Sad to say, I DID make a list!......
Not only that, but there were only about 10 things on that list, and I still forgot 3 of them....

Oh well, such is the price of the daily grind, I guess!

T.
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. As someone who has suffered with depression on and off for years, i am glad
that more are being educated about mental illness and other things. However, i feel the saturation of the tv with commercials for everthing from fibromialgia and erectile disfunction to depression and all the other things has created a nation of hypochondriacs. If you are sad, it can't be just because you are sad... you must be depressed. or how about a pill to take along with the other pill. If you want to do a general commercial to get information out there, then that's one thing. But this constant inundation of these ads is making people have something they may not have. and they'll go tell the doctor to give them x,y,z when isn't the doctor supposed to tell you what's wrong with you. and there is probably something that works as well or better than the designer drug. but then again, when i go to the doctor i wonder if they are getting something to prescribe a certain drug.
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
90. I object to the drug pusher ads myself.
And for the same reason as you. I just love the line,"ask your doctor about (fill in the blank)...".
Who's prescribing for whom?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. OR: modern society is making people ill so more seek pills to deal with it
While I am convinced the drugs are overused and prescribed too often by doctors who do not understand, take the time to find out, or just don't monitor results, it seems pointless to blame the drugs for society's values.

People's needs are not being met. People do not have the time/energy to do things which make them healthy mentally & physically. We serve society, not the other way around. THAT is the root problem. The increase in drug use is just one of many symptoms.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. YES!!!!!!! EXACTLY!!!!!! n/t
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. We're all being bullied or bullies and intimidated or intimidating.
That's the model. Bullies getting away with anything (bosses shutting down plants, firing everyone, and moving the jobs to China, for instance).

People are so stressed their bodies are unable to handle it. Lots of hormonal problems -- diabetes, adrenal fatigue, dead thyroids, all kinds of stuff. People just can't cope anymore, because their bodies have been pushed too far.

John Lennon figured this out forty years ago: "Our society is being run by insane people for insane objectives".

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Yep, our core value (societally) is money
Edited on Wed Apr-28-10 11:52 AM by havocmom
Money. If you have lots, you are revered no matter what harm you do. If you have little, it is assumed there is something basically wrong with you and you are reviled, no matter what good you do.

Our idols are just people who managed to get into news, not people necessarily worth emulating, or even thinking much about. The real heroes get ignored or derided.

$$ is all that matters. Ethics which stand in your way of making the big bucks are laughed at.

The society is extremely ill and it's contagions affect us all, whether we fall victim to the inverted values or not.

The pills, while some really do help some people who actually need them, are just another tool to make us all conform to behaviors which are wholly unnatural and contraindicated for our personal and cultural health.

edited for typo

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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Wow - so profound. My thyroid is dead, so is my husband's. I know I have
adrenal fatigue, too. It does feel insane, doesn't it?

I lived for a year in the Sinai desert and grew to love the Egyptian people, especially the Bedouin. Their way of life seemed in so many ways to be so much more sane than our life here. And they seemed so much happier as a people, too.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Stress and...(see post #13).
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. There's room at the top they're telling you still. But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
... if you want to be like the folks on The Hill

~ Working Class Hero
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Oh I love that song. :) That and "Power to the People" and "Mind Games" n/t
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. ...and we know what society did to Lennon...
the insane don't like to be called out...
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Not all society, just one crazy guy who had a huge sense of entitlement...n/t
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. ah, his murder was not the only thing done to him. Officials in society did much harm to him
They tried very hard to silence him. The guy who shot him was also a victim of society's illnesses. He wanted to be famous. And we give fame to the wrong people for the wrong reasons. That was a societal symptom too.

I am not absolving the murder (will not name those who just want to be remembered) of his act, but his act was a symptom of the cultural illness.

Now, J Edgar, Richard Nixon.... they had different reasons for being after John Lennon.

Those who profit from a sick society do not tolerate the voices critical of the illness.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Oh, that's true, John had to fight very hard not to be deported, I remember that. I was a big John
Lennon fan when I was a kid. :)
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
67. Fantastic line there:
"Those who profit from a sick society do not tolerate the voices critical of the illness."

I'll be including it in my profile, attributed to you, natch ;)
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. thanks, I needed that
:blush:
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. And you got it!
:hi:
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
92. Thank you; that's exactly how I feel....
At this point, I have no job, and after having looked for so long, with very few interviews, I just feel like I can't even cope with the little daily things any more. I'm barely functioning right now. I don't even bother to look for a job any more cuz I can't take any more rejection. The fight has left me and yes, I feel like my body has been pushed too far.

Life, as it has become here in America, has kicked the shit out of me. John Lennon sure knew what he was talking about!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. Yup. That's the ticket.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. yep...that's exactly what I wanted to say. Our society is very sick.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
91. Wish I could rec a reply.
You've nailed it on this one.
:thumbsup:


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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
93. OR: depression doesn't carry the stigma it once did so more people feel comfortable seeking help/
It's really probably a combination of all these factors.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
110. Bingo! With how stressed people are nowdays of course many are going to snap.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, yeah, it's all the evil drug companies
It couldn't possibly be the fact that we live in an unhealthy culture that forces both parents out of the home to work for less than adequate wages, giving their children less time than children need to learn how to cope with an unhealthy culture.

It couldn't possibly be the parents who are overworked, underpaid, and overtired who see their kids hurting and simply don't have enough hours in the day to deal with it and take the kid to the doctor instead.

It couldn't possibly be the doctor who sees a kid with some pretty disturbing symptoms and concludes the kid has developed a pathology when the kid is really showing signs of neglect his parents simply don't have enough resources to deal with.

It's just got to be those mean old drug companies.

However, Whitaker does bring up some valid points. Those points could be addressed by a medical delivery system that was focused on care instead of cost cutting, where people could be closely monitored on psychoactive drugs to screen for the earliest signs of adverse effects.

Unfortunately, we live in an uncaring culture that is interested only in how many dollars can be mined out of human beings. Until and unless that changes, we're going to continue to see these problems develop.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
40. Hmm..yes, part of it IS the drug companies.
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zazen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. I've seen the iatrogenic course Whitaker describes in several individuals
Well, I don't know if it's solely iatrogenic, but it's clearly complicated by an initial diagnosis, drugs, reactions to those drugs, more drugs, etc.

I do think that the increase in the diagnosis of "mental illness" might reflect an historical move toward higher expectations for emotional health and balanced interpersonal behavior, and that's not a bad thing. Patterns of self-or other-destructive behavior that people just tolerated or attacked in the past (or explained away as "women's problems" or "boys will be boys" or demon possession or an artistic temperament, for ex) are now more readily identified.

But Pharma and the DSMIVR shouldn't be the only answer. We may overdiagnose these days, but some of the intent represents a positive development toward not just uncritically accepting certain hurtful patterns of behavior but at least naming it so people can make a more conscious choice. Naming has power, for good and ill.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. In a society as densely propagandized as ours, it's no surprise since illusion = "reality" for many
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. I thought this was going to be a teabaggers thread.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Cool. More recruits for us against America." - TeaBaggers (R)
Edited on Wed Apr-28-10 11:18 AM by SpiralHawk
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
87. Fuck you.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
111. That post is very offensive to us DUers with mental illnesses.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. Read Galbraith
The Affluent Society needs to create new "wants" as it evolves. That used to mean bigger, better, best - soap, cars, beer. Now it means more mental illness creating a need for more drugs.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. And a mentally/spiritually ill populace, within specific framing, is more easily manipulated/coerced
Official Culture - A Natural State of Psychopathy?

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture.htm
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. a big thing lacking in our lives is harmony


yes, a hippy thing.

but its true. most of us are so busy harmony has flown the coop.

and harmony is as necessary to good health as food and breathing air.

a pharma pill cannot provide harmony no matter what the barons say in advertising.

however good old weed can lift the spirit and provide a harmonious feeling. inbetween your busy, pressed for time moments.

(not getting stoned, but getting high. there is a difference. getting stoned uses up time.)

and it won't make you crazy or crazier.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
42. +1
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
59. "a pharma pill cannot provide harmony"
Apparently you've never done quaaludes.:rofl:
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. Humanity is being exposed to more chemicals than ever before
more toxins, more GM foods with unknown side effects.I finally saw three endocrinologists in a last ditch effort to overcome my life long battle with depression. The conclusion from all three? Hypothyroid, Addison's disease (adrenal failure) and mercury poisoning-ALL of with cause depression, and all of which can be caused by exposure to toxins in our air, food and water. Those who want to learn more about there epidemics (and yes, they ARE epidemics) can check out these websites:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/long-and-pathetic/

http://thyroid.about.com/

http://misslizzy.me/hypothyroid/
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. +1
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. ding! ding! ding!
I wholeheartedly agree... the effects of flouride in MY water as a child could have long term effects on the development of my children's brains. And then, add to that the stresses of life choices or circumstances... unemployment, poverty, abuse, struggle, etc...any of those things that happen in the course of a lifetime (one that is out of balance)that effect not just our own brains but those of the people we interact with and vice versa.
I also agree there is a tendency in most people to avoid personal growth and responsibility for choices.

Each of us is so used to responding with knee jerk reactions to our most simple interactions, sometimes that just perpetuates damaging behavior.

But I am also of the mind that things can be fixed by diet and healthy approaches, allopathinc meds have ALWAYS been a last reort for me - AND- I also have decided to take certain meds for chronic auto-imune issus and depresion that have allowed me to get out from under the blanket of pain and grief i was living in and be more of myself than ever before..(.and believe me I tried doing it on my own and thought I was a weak person because I couldn't keep it together for more than a year or so before crashing into my wall.)
I am still a holistic thinker, but I also recognize that sometimes our bodies need help, and that can apply to brain chemistry as well as your immune system - it is realy all connected more than even our doctors know. Taking personal responsibility for your own HEALTH - spiritual, mental and physical is crucial in this day & age.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. I agree. While each individual chemical has been given at
least tentative approval, no one has any idea of the long term effects of the combinations we are all exposed to. While the OP is focused on the rise in psychiatric disorders, we have also seen a rise in auto-immune diseases and disorders such as chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromylagia.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. I was diagnosed as having fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome for 30 years
turns out that it was hypothyroid and Addison's disease all along...and the same is true for MANY who have been diagnosed with either or both. Back in the 1970's the ineffective TSH test was rolled out by Abbott Labs and embraced by Big Pharma and the medical establishment. This test only accurately diagnoses about 30% of hyper or hypo thyroid diseases. Left untreated or under-treated with synthroid (which is only effective for 3-5% of the population)the patient will develop chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, depression, insomnia, anxiety and often weight gain and diabetes....all EXTREMELY profitable conditions for Big Pharma! Note that Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome DID NOT become widespread until the TSH test became standard. Before the TSH, thyroid conditions were diagnosed by symptoms and treated naturally and effectively using dessicated thyroid-not something Big Pharma could patent.

Before and afters from a century or more ago:

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?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1270828501791

?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1270828478693

?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1270828530136

http://misslizzy.me/hypothyroid-before-and-after/
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zazen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. CVS actually _called_ me last week to push me to refill Synthroid
I have so many other prescriptions they've never called me about. I get the first one filled for Synthroid (to which I had a terrible reaction) and when I'm paying for it, she asks me if I want to sign up for "automatic refill." Then a month later they call me at home to ask me if I want it refilled. I didn't know pharmacists were commissioned salespeople.

Glad the Armour is helping you.
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
94. Actually, I think most of them are "Pharmacy Techs" now....
which, according to a girlfriend, is a glorified cashier, and getting paid typical retail wages. She did this for about a year, and said the hell with it. Apparently, it sucked.

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #44
104. Synthroid is a con game.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work/

Join their Facebook group. They'll help you to get the right treatment.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #44
105. Oh, and I'm still trying to rebuild my dead adrenals. You always have to do that
before Armour or any other treatment will work if you have adrenal fatigue/ failure. It's a long road; for most people it takes 3-5 years to find a regime that works, and generally their doctors do little to help them.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. Any idea where we can get REAL dessicated thyroid, OTC? rop
I am on what I believe to be an inadequate dose of synthroid - My TSH is only like 2.3 or something like that but I have so many symptoms. Wish I could take some OTC supplement that would help. It's just crazy, I'm cold all the time, can't keep weight off, my skin heals incredibly slowly from wounds, no energy, depression, etc. My hands are always cold too. I don't want to go hyperthyroid or anything of course, just want to boost things a bit so I'm normal.
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zazen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #49
95. canadadrugs.com has Armour. . your doc won't prescribe it, or T3?
I'd find one who would. Lots of psychiatrists are giving T3 as a booster to antidepressants, so you might find a shrink who would write you a script for that, at least. Good luck!
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #49
103. If you are on Facebook join the "stop the thyroid madness" group there
The members will provide links to sources for dessicated thyroid. Armour has been re-formulated and it, along with natuthroid, has become scarce and less effective than it once was. We're more valuable to them ill than we are well, and they want to keep us that way-but there are ways of getting what you need. Ask as many questions as you need to. Ask "miss Lizzy' as well. There's a whole network to there to help you beat the system and regain your life!
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
43. Thanks for those important links, Lorien
With current health care delivery model, most doctors simply do not have the time to really LOOK at patients and try to figure the root of problems. Cheaper (for insurers) to just make a snap judgment based on a tiny snapshot of the patient in a 10 minute session, and write a prescription.

Again, that follows the model of what our current society really values: $$. The business models that prevail have made it impossible for real medicine to be practiced. So many of us are just not getting needs met, because it is not the best thing for some corporate bottom line on a quarterly report.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
101. Yes, yes, yes!!!!
Thyroid disease and adrenal burnout are epidemic, and most of us have got Hg fillings, while the dentists lie to us and tell us they are just wonderful and non-toxic.
The EPA doesn't think the stuff is innocent. The EPA says Hg is the "most toxic non-radioactive substance we know of". Toxic before it goes in your mouth, requires special handling when being put in your mouth, or when it's taken out, but when it's in fillings and being chewed on and eroded by saliva and acid --- NO PROBLEMA!!!! :sarcasm:

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com has great information on thyroids and adrenals.

A lot of people can't get a doctor to pay the proper attention to them when they have dead thyroids and adrenal fatigue so they resort to other means to get what their bodies are not producing.

Endocrinologists have been worse than useless. They don't care if we spend the rest of our lives depressed and exhausted and sleeping. They just want to give people anti-depressants. Or make us all take Synthroid.

Well, if you can't cope with all the damn stress in your life, because the society is sick, the problem is not your problem, it's society and the greed and pressure of the bosses and the ruling class to wring every last drop of blood out of us, take away our sanity and feed us constant lies.

We're not in contact with nature, we are pressured to unrealistic levels by crazy bosses. Psychopaths and sociopaths are celebrated and rewarded with money for saving the company money.

And an anti-depressant is not the answer. We live in a profoundly sick society.

The person who invented public relations was a man named Edward Bernays. His uncle was a physician named Sigmund Freud. Bernays invented PR and modern advertising by knowing how to prey on peoples' basic insecurities to sell them things.

There's a Beeb documentary about this called "The Century of the Self".

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #101
106. Yep, I've been sick for 30 years but didn't become profoundly ill until 10 fillings
were removed. I developed a huge lump on my neck afterwords- turns out that my lymphatic system couldn't handle all the mercury shavings that hit my system. Now I have heart issues, dead adrenals and a barely functioning thyroid...yet people still tell me that magical thinking and simply "changing my attitude' will rid me of depression and exhaustion, and they look at me with doubt when I tell them the true cause of it. There are millions upon millions like us out there who will by into their "it's all your own fault" BS and never get treatment.
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MsLizzy Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #106
115. Lorien, thanks for sharing my story
Lorien, wow, you've had quiet a journey and learned so much! Patient-to-patient information is fantastic! STTM is a great resource and they are the ones that got me on the right path with Natural Dessicated Thyroid (Naturthroid for me) and Hydrocortisone. As well as giving me the strength to find a good doctor and not just settle. I really owe them my life. The missing piece for me was the before and after story. Words only go so far. I realized I needed to share my photos so people can actually see what good treatment looks like and that good treatment is possible. Hopefully this will give people inspiration to take that next step.

We need more stories and photos so the world can see what good treatment looks like.

xxoo

Miss Lizzy

PS- I switched from Armour to Naturthroid a year ago and have been very happy with it. The new Armour didn't work for me, like many others noted on STTM. During the worst of the shortage I found an pharmacy in Arizona called Clark's who had plenty of Naturthroid. Its easier to find now, but if you are having trouble just have your doctor call the prescription into Clarks. Its super easy. I had the meds within 4 days.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
15. A great big K&R
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. Our society is dysfunctional.
Every rat chasing the same wedge of cheese. Is it no wonder that we have some of the most ambitious among us ready to cut everybody else loose?

If that doesn't drive you to depression you're either taking great drugs or are not human.
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gvstn Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
36. Thanks
Very interesting article. I believe my course of treatment followed this scenario exactly.

I had a prolonged period of irritable bowel type symptoms. (TMI warning?): Basically, daily uncontrollable/sudden diarrhea.

I tried all the OTC/dietary remedies I could think of and finally went to the GP to get some advice. Got a prescription for the stuff they give to travelers which worked OK. My GP decided that maybe an anti depressant would be a better maintenance drug and then the real problems began. 5 drugs later, terrible mood swings, apathy I ended up in the ER and a psychiatrist's office. He diagnosed bi-polar and put me on lithium and a few other drugs. They calmed things down but the whole mess started from a need to get diarrhea under control. It was crazy, out of control treatment that really started from a bad reaction to an antidepressant. Big Pharma made a lot of money off of prescriptions when a simple anti diarrhea drug was working fine. I lost 2 years of my life and some measure of my emotional well being, perhaps forever.

And yes I am bitter.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
66. I'm so sorry. n/t
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
38. ..... Time to hit the re-set button....
..When the world's elite have run debt levels to the highest level possible and stolen every last penny from the working poor... they usually look to a World War to thin the population herd and re-set the debt clock, which allows the Banksters to scamper away without facing throngs of torches and pitchforks.

However, this time something is different? To-Big-To-Fail has foiled their (Goldman-Sachs) attempt to reset the debt clock and wipe the economic slate clean.

Some say the Swine Flu was supposed to be a mass-herd thinner, but for some reason many of the sheeple did not want to take the shots?

Then we had the under-wear bomber at Christmas. (Fruit of the Boom) That was supposed to work.. set off the fear factor and stimulate the march to more war.. but that fizzled as badly as the fuse in the CIA asset's under pants.

The world Bankers, try as hard as they might, are having a tough time getting the war going in Iran. They really need this war to wipe out a few hundred million useless eaters and divert attention away from the multi-national corps.

After 10 years of constant war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the American public are tired of "war with no return on investment", and the attack Iran advertising campaign is a tough sell.

I don't know what the next move is.. but I would put my money on another false-flag attack.. maybe a small suitcase dirty-bomb set off in an American city and blamed on Iran.. that should do the trick.



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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
114. How about an oil exploration platform ?
Was that too specific ?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
47. Isn't it interesting that the victims of greed and hatefulness are seen as "mentally ill", yet
those who are hurting others out of greed are not only NOT seen as "mentally ill", but are often held up as "good examples" of success?

:wtf:
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. More like...
a damn shame!
:grr:
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #47
64. Another example of that is that rapists in families are often seen as normal, but
the rape victims, who are then depressed and have PTSD, are seen as defective and damaged and wrong. That's what happened to me in my family, and I've seen it in other incest cases over and over again too, not just my family. The rapists are just "boys will be boys, it's natural" and the victims when we cut ourselves and attempt suicide are "crazy."
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
99. Oh, LiberalLoner, I'm so sorry! Yes, that is exactly the process I am talking about!
"Power" is seen as "healthy" in this society, and "victim" is a bad word.

We are one sick, SICK society!

I'm sorry you have experienced and been hurt by that.... I know exactly what you are talking about, and it is very destructive.

"The Identified Patient". Yup...

:hug:
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #99
112. Thank you. I'm okay. I'm in a loving healthy relationship now and away from
the people who hurt me and I am okay now. :) I love my husband and my kitty and my friends here at DU. I'm trying to make friends in real life, too. :)
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #47
71. The worst examples are the in-betweeners who champion that 'success' & desperately want it...
... for themselves and their families, despite the obvious.

That's how the sickness of Power operates; re-shape everything/everyone in its own image so it has fewer opponents
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
96. Good point, Bobbolink!
Interestingly enough, the ones hurting other out of greed, would be considered sociopaths and addicts if not for their filthy rich, "sucessful savvy business person" status!

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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
52. This could be the chicken & the egg and is not easily untangled.
My goddaughter who is now 18 started to be treated for ADHD and poor impulse control when she was 14. Christmas of 2008 she had a psychotic breakdown and in 2009 she was hospitalized 13 times at 7 different hospitals.

She started at a new residential school last month that is being paid for by her school district because they screwed up so badly with her in high school. The second week she was there they took her off one of her antipsychotic meds cold turkey (a mistake). She had a complete psychotic breakdown: hallucination, hearing voices, thinking people could read her mind, the whole 9 yards. She ended up punching a wall with her fist, a concrete wall, and broke her hand, needing surgery.

How can it be ever known if the psychiatric meds she got when she was 14 precipitated her eventual psychotic breakdown? The thing is now without the short term benefits of the antipsychotic meds she is now taking she would either end up in prison or dead. At this point the choice is simple.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
69. Oh, that's awful, I'm so sorry. :( Hoping for her healing. n/t
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harry_pothead Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
72. Yes, we have all seen a lot of mental illness
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Crystal Clarity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. That's just your run-of-the-mill ignorance. nt
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #72
86. And a lot of fucking assholes equating it to teabaggery.
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #72
98. WTF??????
Need I comment on the intelligence displayed here?

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

I do mean the pix, not harry_pothead.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #72
107. Your bigotry against the mentally ill is noted.
:puke:
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
74. I don't discount the first 9 years of this decade
when the insane ruled the world. The cognitive dissonance was profound. After 18 months of the new administration, I am only now becoming more stable, myself. I have noticed a real dullness of the news...no bombs, threats of war, horrifying treatment of citizens of this country and around the world, just the business of trying to keep the planet together.

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
85. We need treatments most for *learned helplessness* of the average American and a healthy DISTRUST
Edited on Wed Apr-28-10 01:39 PM by ShortnFiery
of our M$M and Elected Representatives.

Don't TRUST what our "illustrious" representatives do on the surface is right for the average American. In fact, FOLLOW THE MONEY in order to keep them honest?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
100. Kick for the night shift. Lots of good thought and good links in this one
:kick:
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1955doubledie Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
102. k&r
nt
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
108. Tip: If stimulant medication makes a kid manic that kid CANNOT have ADHD.
Edited on Wed Apr-28-10 11:22 PM by Odin2005
In people with ADHD and other forms of Executive Dysfunction medicinal doses of stimulants does the OPPOSITE of what it does to people without ADHD. So if a kid get hyper and manic from taking Ritalin then the kid does not have ADHD and the psych that diagnosed the kid as such is a moron.

A kid acting up just because he is bored and under-stimulated is not ADHD and psychiatrists that give medication to such kids need to have the book thrown at them.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
109. ...As someone who's been crazy as a shithouse rat
since childhood I can tell you that I'd JUST LOVE to get rid of my mood stabilizer (lamictal, an anti-seizure med. Go figure) to live drug free for the rest of my life, but there ain't anyone I have ever met who wants to hang out with me au natural.....

Back on topic, however - I recently took a trip to LA and EVERYONE I met was either taking Xanax or Prozac or Wellbutrin or some SSRI or anti-anxiety agent......Except grantcart, who seems impervious to all things Cali....Although he does have an unnatural appetite for Lou Dobbs reruns.

I get the feeling that people ARE taking drugs to fix situational problems.....

That helps paint those of us with chronic conditions as easily fixed, or lumps us in with the quick-to-medicate.

I hate my drug, but it gave me my life back.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #109
116. I get the feeling that people ARE taking drugs to fix situational problems....."
That's absolutely correct. In fact, your entire post was insightful and spot on.

Part of the problem is that too many physicians and psychiatrists overly rely on the medication model and all downplay or ignore the causes/exacerbating factors:

DSM IV-TR Axis IV Psychosocial and Environmental Factors

Things like problems with primary support group (e.g. divorce); (2) problems with social environment (e.g. death of a friend); (3) educational problems; (4) housing problems; (5) economic problems; (6) occupational difficulties; (7) legal difficulties; and (8) transportation difficulties.

A lot of these factors- as well as overall global functioning and "satisfaction" with quality of life require more than a mood stabilizer to deal with effectively- and indeed, studies show that more effective courses of treatment include a talk therapy component (sometime structured, like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy -or less structured, depending on the needs of the patient/client).

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