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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 12:45 PM
Original message
AZ Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling
By scarce Sunday Apr 25, 2010 10:00am

The shape of things to come? Sure looks like it. And this incident happened before Gov. Jan Brewer signed the SB1070 into law on Friday. Video and story from AzFamily.com.

PHOENIX A Valley man says he was pulled over Wednesday morning and questioned when he arrived at a weigh station for his commercial vehicle along Val Vista and the 202 freeway.

Abdon, who did not want to use his last name, says he provided several key pieces of information but what he provided apparently was not what was needed.

He tells 3TV, I don't think it's correct, if I have to take my birth certificate with me all the time.

3TV caught up with Abdon after he was released from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office in central Phoenix. He and his wife, Jackie, are still upset about what happened to him.

Jackie tells 3TV, It's still something awful to be targeted. I can't even imagine what he felt, people watching like he was some type of criminal.

Abdon was told he did not have enough paperwork on him when he pulled into a weigh station to have his commercial truck checked. He provided his commercial drivers license and a social security number but ended up handcuffed.

An agent called his wife and she had to leave work to drive home and grab other documents like his birth certificate.

Jackie explains, I have his social security card as well and mine. He's legit. It's the first time it's ever happened.

Both were born in the United States and say they are now both infuriated that keeping important documents safely at home is no longer an option


http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/az-truck-dri...
/div]
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ihre papiere, bitte.
:scared:
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. Bumagi, pozhalusta
Same thing, only in Russian.
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Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #38
98. Better in cyrillic and it should be 'documents'.....
Документы, пожалуйста.

....transliteration always gives me a headache.

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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #98
110. I don't have Cyrillic on my keyboard.
Thanks for the translation.
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Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Yeah you do....
Accessories - System Tools - Character Map

Build your text in the open field and copy. Paste into any text editor.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think all of us brown people should head over to Arizona
and form a line to be arrested. I'd need some time at a tanning place but it would be a way to clog up the machine.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'd join you if I could... and I'd fake an accent too... or pretend I couldn't speak english.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I'd have to wait for later this summer (in training) but
maybe by then someone will have a plan. If anyone hears of something like this, please post about it!

:hi:
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. If I wasn't afraid of being put in jail
I would take my little African American brown skin self over there.

I know a bit of Spanish too.

My problem is I would go goclark crazy if they even tried to touch me.

I would be in jail without bail. LOL
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. LOL. Maybe you better hold off, goclark.
:)
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
54. I'd look at em straight in the face and say...
Mayambo dog face to the banana patch.

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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
86. Fake accent?
Don't pull a (The Fugitive) on me. Get Harrison Ford to say something in spanish at the hospital. :P

Say what about all those rednecks that one can't understand a thang u's a sayin.


Reminds me of Airplane.. the grandmother spoke jive o_O
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. I'm hoping some brown law enforcement officers or successful
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 01:24 PM by struggle4progress
lawyers, carrying only their drivers' licenses, will tour Arizona extensively this summer in beat-up sedans, wearing old loose clothing, with mariachi music on a boombox in the backseat

We might see some nice lawsuits

I unfortunately have too Nordic an appearance to volunteer as an arrestee: I could try memorizing some useful Swedish phrases, I suppose, or perhaps I could cultivate a Bavarian accent, but I don't think I'd be arrested for it. Maybe if I refused to speak and insisted on putting all my answers in writing on a notepad

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. GMTA.
:)
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. hope they ask Boehner for his papers
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Um, well, maybe orange people are exempt
:dunce:
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #36
112. And rimshot!
Nice.
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truth2008 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #30
99. Boehner
He's not brown are tan, he's BRIGHT ORANGE!
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
72. Could I pretend to be a Canadian?
or maybe even a Russian, like, oh, I dunno, the Coyotes' goalie Bryzgalov?? :P
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Can you say "Ey" convincingly?
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 11:22 PM by EFerrari
lol
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Oh yeah, like, g'day, eh?
Aww, you're such a hoser, hoser!

So take off, eh?

(please don't search me for my VTA pass....) :scared:
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Who the fuck carries their birth certificate with them?
I couldn't even tell you where mine is. Of course I'm not likely to be a target of Klansman Joe, but that's beside the point. The only ID anyone should have to carry with them is a driver's license. And if they don't have a car, why would they even need that? Social Security card, maybe.
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Could a cop actually tell a legitimate certificate from a fake
I mean each state/county has their own birth certificate security paper and seals and they change over time, but your birth certificate, from whatever time you got it, is still valid forever. It would seem that any undocumented worker could easily obtain a believable fake birth certificate, so it would seem to be more harm to legitimate persons than undocumented workers.
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
59. Some states issue a wallet sized card as a birth certificate.
I saw one last year.
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mikekohr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #59
96. My state does not, perfect example of the need for a National ID card
Edited on Mon Apr-26-10 07:37 AM by mikekohr
something the Republican Party has fought for years. If every legal resident had a National ID card the business community would be far less likely to exploit illegal workers (and by extention legal workers) and then claim they have no reliable way to ascertain an employee's legal status.

If we want to fix this problem a National ID card is critical to the process in conjunction with very stiff penalties and prison time for employers that hire illegal residents.

We need to punish those that cause this problem, the employers, and not demonize those that come here to better themselves and their families.

I am a Caucasian with dark skin and dark hair. I am often mistaken for a Hispanic or a Native American, which I always consider a compliment, even though this "profiling" is all to often directed at me with something less than good will. Anyone that claims the Arizona law will not result in racial profiling, and abuse is either naive or racist.

mike kohr
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
78. AZ doesn't recognize Mr. President's birth certificate.
Why would it recognize anyone else's?
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icnorth Donating Member (954 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
94. Joe Arapiao can differentiate
Edited on Mon Apr-26-10 06:33 AM by icnorth
between a real American and a fake one just by looking at him. :sarcasm:
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catrose Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
97. Mine says less than Obama's
And I've had it for 30 years. I don't think any of these Birthers have ever seen a birth certificate.

Oh, gee, that's the next issue in AZ: your birth certificate doesn't show enough.

When will it end?
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
46. A person on a stroll or jogging should carry no ID.
A person driving a car obviously needs the license. It has never been the law in the US to have ID on you while outside. It was only a requirement to identify yourself to a police officer, but this is is just verbal name and address.
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. Actually joggers should carry some form of ID.
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 09:52 PM by PADemD
In case you get hit by a car and they need to take you to the hospital. It will help to notify your relatives.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
62. Not supposed to carry Social Security cards on your person.
Identity theft.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. Good point.
Never thought about it. So that leaves the question of what sort of ID a non-driving person is supposed to have. Legal immigrants have a "green card", but what would citizens have?
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. Government-issued ID is not required by law, and never has been in the US.
Some, if not all, states issue an ID card that can be used in lieu of a driver's license, but that's only for the convenience of non-drivers. They're not required. That's what a "free country" means-- that we can move around without having to worry about being hassled by the police. Apparently, AZ no longer wants to be part of a free country.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
87. ditto. have no clue where mine is.
parents probably have it super locked up somewhere. Kinda like carrying my SS card around. Dumb.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
105. I have a copy of birth cert. on me at all times.
Haven't seen my SS card for 25 years.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. It is racial profiling. If he were a Canadian trucker, he wouldn't have been stopped. n/t
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
48. Canadian truckers come in all races and colours.
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 03:59 PM by polly7
Just like in the U.S.

Strange notion, eh?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. You know what I mean. Although your browner Canadians maybe need to
have their proper papers if driving through Arizona.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Just as 'browner' truckers from the U.S. or Mexico will have
to have their papers. I'm sure they already have the proper paperwork done just to get through customs, they're not claiming residency so what other papers will they need?
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Tragic.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. hopefully he will be the first in line to sue them. He should get in touch
with the Civil Liberties group.
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thelordofhell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. Before the new laws saying I have to have a passport
I always carried a copy of my birth certificate with me so that I could get back into the United States whenever I went to Mexico.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. Arizona really needs to implement an 'efficient' system. How about tattooed forearms?
Wait... This sounds familiar.

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. How about Arizona cops memorize the complete list of persons legally in the US?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
49. Or better yet, persons deemed as Hispanic would only be allowed to travel betwen 8am and 5pm
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
68. Wrong place for the tattoo IMO.
Those supporting the law should have the tattoo on their ass as near as possible to their anus.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. How many of us could produce a birth certificate or passport on demand?
I don't even have a passport. I have a certified BC from my state only because I had a need for it for employment years ago, but I don't carry it with me everywhere. It's kind of big for a wallet so I'm not sure where I'd keep it.

Fortunately for this man, his wife had what he needed at home. What if he didn't have a BC or passport even at home?
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NotThisTime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. For people in Arizona they will have to start carrying these documents or risk being hauled to jail
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
44. i don't carry a birth certificate around!! or a social security card. that would be a nightmare sh
should it be lost or stolen!! and is this the country we want!! stopped and required to show papers everywhere??
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
80. When I wanted to get a birth certificate a few years ago, it took three weeks.
I'd hate to spend three weeks in an AZ jail. If it were summer, I might not survive.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #80
95. Exactly.
It took me 2 or 3 weeks if I recall correctly. I don't see how this will stand up in court.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. I wonder if AZ can handle this happening hundreds of times every day
Because that's exactly what's coming.

Good luck, racist assholes.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. I think the cops will (a)revolt at the volume of useless work or(b) use the law for sheer harassment
Option (b) would certainly be a legalized throwback to Jim Crow laws in the South.

Cops in California pretty much made it clear that they didn't want to be seen as an arm of the INS, largely because they want anyone who has witnessed a crime or been victimized by one to cooperate with an investigation without fear of being hauled away themselves. It's a rather murky area, and I don't know where it ended up under pressure from Homeland Security, but I do remember the debate locally.

Hekate

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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #52
104. The INS is now part of Homeland Security
link: http://www.dhs.gov/index.shtm

Under the header of Border Security and Immigration...
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. It's simple
They stop you - you turn around and head out of state. They will learn fast.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. Everyone should print one of those FAKE Kenyan Birth certificates
and keep that in their car as protest...
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. DUzy! nt
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
50. DUzy rec #2
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
89. Here is the link if there are any takers
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. So it begins
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. I don't have a passport and I don't have my birth certificate. I've had a drivers license since 16,
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 01:24 PM by Pirate Smile
have my social security card but I don't keep it on me or in my purse because that would be dangerous if my purse or wallet got stolen.

This is crazy.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
69. And you don't want to carry your bc with you for the same reason.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. I suspect that the b.s. will screw up ordinary commerce SO badly
that it will be forced to end, largely at the 'business' end.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. You are probably right.
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
22. Even Obama probably can't convince Arizonans he's American
If the President can't convince a large proportion of the US that he was born in the US, how is any poor Jose Schmo going to be able to do it?
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Perhaps that is the point. To arrest Obama and make him prove he is legit.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. I'm sure if he visited the state there would be thousands insisting he be forced to show his papers
:puke:
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
81. You didn't hear about the other bill that passed in AZ last week?
They're now requiring that candidates for office present their birth certificates in AZ before they can get on the ballot. They're trying to keep Mr. President off the ballot in AZ in '12!
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
63. If I were Obama I'd schedule a visit to the state immediately.
See if any of those racist cops have the nerve to do it.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #63
83. Remember that hate cult church in Tempe
The one that preaches so much hate they make the Phelps Klan look like "liberals". The fools that showed up at the Obama speech with a loaded AR-15.

Wonder how many of those fucking idiots are on Arpaio's payroll. Wouldn't be surprised if he's actively recruiting them.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. This will expose people's primary documentation
to the whims of Zona Bubbas. NOT GOOD.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
84. Yeah, what is the point of even having your birth certificate when one that has been validated by
the state it is from (even by its Governor) and independent Fact Checkers is still deemed questionable and insufficient.

I guess everyone needs to have had at least 3 (because 2 has been shown to be insufficient) simultaneous birth announcements made by or in independent newspapers or other public publications.

I'm sure we can all meet that standard. :eyes:

If we can't then it is just evidence of our real Kenyan or Indonesian birth. ;)
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Rozlee Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #84
102. My sisters back in the 40s weren't born in hospitals. They have birth certificates by affadavits
Back then in rural Texas, very few poor Hispanics went to hospitals. Many women, like my mother, gave birth at home with the assistance of local midwives or family members. If there was a complication, then they called a doctor. Back then, doctors made house calls and one would come over. I was a change-of-life-baby when my Mom gave birth to me when she was almost 50 in the late 50s. I'm the only one that has a doctor's signature on my b.c. from a hospital birth. If my sisters were stopped with their b.c. in Arizona, what would a bigot cop think if he didn't see a doc's signature on it? All they had were "Witnesses to Birth" when a family member would go to the post office to request the birth certificate. I'm sure they probably have the same kind of things for people that were born in poor Latino rural areas in Arizona before Hospital births became the norm for Hispanics. Then what? Is a birth certificate like that valid?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. Just because she signed it, does not make it go into effect immediately
It's supposed to take effect on Aug 1st, according to the news outlets that reported on it.

The police apparently are champing at the bit to start "roundin' 'em up" :grr:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. That's right. August. Well, that gives people time to prepare.
I hope the Republicans lose AZ forEVER over this.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
109. The good news on that is that, just in the few days since
the bill was passed, the voter registration for Hispanics in AZ has gone up THIRTY percent! And guess which party has received the vast majority of those registrations? Talk about the law of unintended consequences. You'd think the 'pubs would have seen that one coming. Then again, they probably think "illegal" when they think of most Hispanics and they probably don't give them nearly as much credit for intelligence and understanding. Too bad, so sad for them.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. I hope he sues!
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 01:30 PM by calimary
A few hundred lawsuits like this oughta give ms brewer and her cronies something to think about.

Well... maybe... on a good day... when they've taken all their meds or something...

:shrug:
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LastLiberal in PalmSprings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
26. I need to get the photo on my birth certificate updated
It shows a chubby, hairless guy who's taking a nap. Wait a second -- that's what I look like now...

I never understood the benefit of carrying a birth certificate. Absent DNA there's no way to correlate the document with the person presenting it.

Actually, I'm not sure how one proves who they are. An official copy of a birth certificate can be obtained by anyone, and has no data that's relevant to identifying the person who is carrying it. Everything else is based on presenting this document and you being who you say you are.

"I object - that's hearsay!" the lawyer said as the witness was being sworn in. "He only knows his name because someone told it to him!"
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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
29. thats a bunch of BULLSHIT..
he should sue..
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
34. Its a treasonous RW white supremacist tea bagger law & AZ republicans are the spear head...
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 01:49 PM by bridgit
for the disenfranchisement of minority voters with an eye on 2012 as their sea trial - but Dems need to reconsider their read between the importance of illegal/undocumented workers, and the violent drug cartels kidnapping & murdering people here then skipping back across a very porous border stacked now with dead bodies

Dems do run the risk of being framed as light-headed unless they get their hands & heads all the way around the issue this idiot Brewer monstrosity is said to address
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ArizonaLiberal Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. It has been simmering here...
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 02:07 PM by ArizonaLiberal
for a long time.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Yeah, long time and thx for posting
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. they need to change their State name to "Terror-Zona".
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
37. Are they going to make people post bail? Pay a fine?
Because otherwise this is going to get very expensive for the state even without lawsuits to contend with.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. They are too evil to care about spending
$$'s to be evil.

GW taught them so well. :puke:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
47. Heckuva job, AZ electorate. You've made white supremacists everywhere proud.
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 02:39 PM by BlooInBloo
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
51. Universal ID I can understand. It makes sense. Driver's license/State ID, whatever. But a PASSPORT?
In MY OWN country?

Birth certificate? Social Security card? First and foremost, those (and the passport) are important documents to anyone wishing to steal your identity, and they are a royal pain to try to replace if lost or stolen. They should not be carried around casually and used for random ID for cashing checks or what not, and should be stored safely at home or in a safe-deposit box in the bank.

But as to the Passport, specifically -- we are supposed to suddenly pay a hundred bucks (soon to be $135) to travel between states in our own country. That is so outrageous I don't even have words for it.

Hekate

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
53. And so it begins...
This won't end well. :(
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
56. Let the law suits begin!
AZ will be so sorry they ever passed this piece of shit, once the umpteenth 4th amendment lawsuit saps their state attorney budget.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. As Daily Kos points out, the lawsuits will go BOTH ways
Since not only will people who are unfairly harassed and arrested sue, but citizens that do not believe the police are doing enough to enforce the law can sue - and get $1000 per day from the date the suit is filed.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/4/25/860522/-The...

If Arizona is already having money problems with their government at all levels, this will bankrupt the state, counties and cities.
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agentS Donating Member (922 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
58. This new law is BS and this incident is Exhibit fucking A as to why
AZ law enforcement is wasting time and resources harassing innocent people when they should be going after the drug smugglers and kidnapping outfits.

Will someone PLEASE tell me how a racist law like this is supposed to cut down the drug smuggling and kidnapping problem? Because I'm not seeing how stopping random brown people in a SOUTHWESTERN STATE is supposed to have an effect.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. The new law hasn't even taken effect yet
:eyes:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #58
82. A number of LEO agencies came out against this POS before it was signed.
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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
64. Interesting...
So if your brown or black you have to carry your papers with you wherever you go...Sounds like walking the streets of 1930s Germany.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #64
85. Or 1950's America
Sundown towns didn't even give you that much leeway.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
66. Famous people need to "test" this new law with cameras rolling
This could get quite interesting...
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lunasun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
67. If he was born in the USA then he most likely did not have
a heavy foreign accent and could answer an "American culture type question" and be sent on his way.

Of course not in the Twilight Zone.

U tell me what the bullshit is about!
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BrentWil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
71. Yes it is..
When will this country learn that hard working people are never a damaging thing....
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
73. I would be shit out of luck
My birth certificate looks like Obama's only a different state seal. And they don't accept his as authentic. I am brown with a suspect BC. What to do? Luckily I don't reside in Arizona, just a neighboring state.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
76. I'm looking forward to the lawsuit.
This law's defenders say it'll only affect undocumented workers (actually, they say "illegal aliens," but I reject that terminology), but here's a natural-born citizen who was arrested for failing to provide proof of citizenship. As far as I know, it is not and never has been illegal for an American to leave his home without his birth certificate on his person.

If AZ gets away with this outrage, it'll set a dangerous precedent.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
77. ah yes, more great ideas from the people who complain about how Obama is stealing their freedoms
or something.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #77
107. This is simply more racism . . . bigotry --
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
88. k&r
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
90. I wish Obama WOULD visit Arizona, and say a few small border towns known for their RW cops
Let them just TRY to approach him, let alone arrest him. The Secret Service would have to make up a few letters of
condolence to the widows, if the arresting "officers" were married, but otherwise, the point would be made.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
91. ok... really. this shit has to end. I expect my govt to squash this quickly.
it is harassment and racial profiling, and I don't care if a bunch of numbf*cks want it, our govt should step in and say - we went through these fights over rights already in this country, quit restarting the wars or face prison time.

maybe all the docs, nurses, teachers, cops, firefighters, medical staff, builders etc, should bar us whites from receiving services from them - they'd be screaming about how it's racist! But you know there's far too many white folk who would rely heavily on an ER doc who's Latino, when they're having a heart attack, and turn around a month later and see him/her outside somewhere and accuse 'em of not being an American.
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
92. Even though the Democrats in Arizona knew
that this law was going to be shoved down their throats, they should have tried to include in the law specifics about what documents the police would have to accept as prima facie evidence of citizenship (for citizens) or legal immigrant status (for non-citizens). If it had been spelled out explicitly what papers people would have to carry with them to avoid arrest, I'm guessing there would have been a lot less enthusiasm for this law among the general population.
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
93. My rec
Is due to this man getting his story out there. Because this law is a bunch of bull.

Oh - see - now I'm "exotic looking". Maybe :sarcasm: those of us who are 'exotic looking' but American citizens can have a red white and blue star tatooed on our right hands and then in our :sarcasm: wrist have tatooed a 'serial id number' to 'prove' we are Americans who just don't have our papers on us.

And for whatever it's worth - this a good reason to boycott Arizona: If you have a brown face. Yep - understand people would lose jobs if tourism went down . . . but if you don't have to go to AZ and you have a brown face like me? Don't effing go. No one in America should have to carry a passport and or birth certificate to prove their citizenship.
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
100. Teabagger terrorists and other racists are now proud to announce...
Edited on Mon Apr-26-10 08:57 AM by meow2u3
Arizona: the first ever sundown state in the nation, thanks to Juan Crow. :puke:
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
101. I can't wait for Lou Dobbs' wife to get asked for ID n/t
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
103. There's more to this story, I think.
It's a little short on facts.


This incident happened before the legislation was even signed into law.

It appears this driver didn't have all the necessary paperwork to legally operate his commercial vehicle; trust me on this one, if they pull you back around a scale house after directing you to bring in all your paperwork, you better have your stuff all lined up and proper, up-to-date and current.

This entails your log book, your registration for the tractor and trailer, insurance for both, lease agreements, CDL, bills of lading...and more. If ONE of these items doesn't look right, your ass is in a sling, and it is up to you to produce updated or current copies of these by fax, mail, whatever...but you are going nowhere from that spot until that correct and current paperwork is produced.

This driver was turned over to ICE for a reason that the scalemaster saw was relevant to their jurisdiction, not for the color of his skin. There was something else going on here; his CDL may have been expired, in that case, it is no longer a valid form of identification.

I every brown-skinned driver in the state of Arizona was pulled over just because of the color of his skin, or accent, little or no freight would ever get moved in that state, let alone the rest of the southwest.

I am a commercial driver, and have been stopped in just such a manner for inspection. I am white, speak with no discernible accent, but I have had border patrol agents look at my papers and vehicle with the same intensity that they would anyone else.

I have also on occasion hauled contract loads for the DoD, and in that case, I need to prove citizenship before entering a base or secure facility. That means I must produce a copy of my birth certificate, passport, or both in addition to a valid CDL.

I carry a copy of my b.c. and passport with me at all times when working. It helps.



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
106. This is "them" and "us" legislation . . . if you're now demanding a birth certificate from
a native born person of Mexican decent, what next???

Police should be chasing criminals and not deciding that skin color indicates a criminal!

They shouldn't be doing the work of immigration officials, either --

And think they're already assigned a large role in chasing drug war traffickers???

What happened to "public servants"?
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
108. he provided his social security number?
And, those are given out to illegal immigrants all the time, right?

It's not like a simple DMV search wouldn't confirm the SS and I9 data associated with the driver, so no, this was pure and simple harrassment.

The dismaying thing for me is I read that CNN poll that showed 60 of all respondents agreed that the Arizona proposal was "just about right".

Bring it Arizona bitches I was born in Germany, blonde hair, green eyes, speak several languages, dual national, American citizen. I'm not the tiniest bit afraid of getting so far in your grill I can count your ass hairs with one eye closed, and half tempted to go get a spray tan and mustachio just to fuck with them.
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