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BBC: WikiLeaks posts 'killing' video / Al Jazeera English Interviews Wikileaks' Editor (Video)

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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:22 PM
Original message
BBC: WikiLeaks posts 'killing' video / Al Jazeera English Interviews Wikileaks' Editor (Video)
Edited on Mon Apr-05-10 02:41 PM by Turborama
No link to the video provided in the BBC article but at least they're reporting it...



WikiLeaks has posted a video on its website which it claims shows the killing of civilians by the US military in Baghdad in 2007.

The website's organisers say they were given the footage, which they say comes from cameras on US Apache helicopters. They say they decrypted it, but would not reveal who gave it to them.

The WikiLeaks site campaigns for freedom of information and posts leaked documents online. There has been no Pentagon response to the video so far.

High-quality video

The video, released on Monday, is of high quality and appears to be authentic, the BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington says.

More: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8603938.stm


-----

Julian Assange, the editor of WikiLeaks.org, told Al Jazeera that the footage, released on Sunday, corroborates witness testimony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1O7jL_hKXQ

Also posted in the videos forum: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Al Jazeera English's article on their website:

Website 'shows video of US attack'

One of the internet's biggest sources of classified government information has released video of what it says is a US helicopter firing at civilians in Iraq.

WikiLeaks, a website that publishes anonymously sourced documents, released what it called previously unseen footage on Monday.

It said the footage filmed from a helicopter cockpit shows a missile strike on a crowded square in a Baghdad neighbourhood in July 2007.

=snip=

Al Jazeera's Patty Culhane, reporting from Washington, said Pentagon officials seemed "completely surprised" when informed of the release of the tape, and appeared not to have heard about the footage beforehand.

"So far we still haven't gotten a response. No response to what's on the tape and no confirmation that this is in fact a military tape," she said.

Much more: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/04/2010...

AJ English's blog on it: Wikileas Versus the Pentagon
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. everyone else is starting to pick it up...
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Self delete
Edited on Mon Apr-05-10 02:39 PM by Turborama
Moved it to the OP
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. 9:17. I can't watch anymore.
Edited on Mon Apr-05-10 02:46 PM by nc4bo
Oh God forgive me for watching as much as I did.

None of the armed "insurgents" even raised a weapon in the helicopters direction.

Can't watch anymore.

:cry:

WHY THE FUCK ARE WE EVEN OVER THERE?????????????
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. must view - unprovoked attack and that they knew who their targets were

Here's the most distressing thing about the video.


If you have ever been on the ground when a helicopter is overhead then you know how far away it can be heard and these military helicopters are as intimidating as hell.

Everyone on the ground knew that the helicopter was nearby but they were not concerned and didn't look up or try and run away, clearly they had no reason to believe that they were in a dangerous area or with hostile elements.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's a key point
Edited on Mon Apr-05-10 04:00 PM by Turborama
If they were "insurgents" they would have most likely run for cover as soon as they heard the chopper. Instead, they seemed to be nonchalantly walking around, as you point out.

ETA Wikileaks' Editor Julian Assange's similar comments to The Guardian:

Initially the US military said that all the dead were insurgents. Then it claimed the helicopters reacted to an active firefight. Assange said that the video demonstrated that neither claim was true.

"Why would anyone be so relaxed with two Apaches if someone was carrying an RPG and that person was an enemy of the United States?" he said. "The behaviour of the pilots is like a computer game. When Saeed is crawling, clearly unable to do anything, their response is: come on buddy, we want to kill you, just pick up a weapon ... It appears to be a desire to get a higher score, or a higher number of kills."


Full article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-u...

Posted here, too: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Looking at the whole video I don't think it was a helicopter

I think it was a predator attack.


If you look at the speed that the camera position is going to go in circumference its too fast for a helicopter.

I think it was a predator and they never heard it.

Also I don' think that the truck that came upon the scene heard it either or they probably wouldn't have stopped.

They may have thought it was a firefight at the surface level.
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DeschutesRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Dylan Ratigan just had the video and the Wiki leaks guy on
I just saw the video on his show, complete with audio of the guys conducting the mission. The firing on the group below wasn't wasn't done by a predator. It was done by the helicopter pilots - the audio was a blow by blow by the pilots, and was very clear, both in the initial attack, and the subsequent attack on the people who came to help those injured.

One of the men urges one of the "bastards" to get up (after they'd fired on them) and return fire (because he is convinced that the Reuters journalist they shot was actually an insurgant carrying a weapon).

The audio was very clear and disturbing. What I don't know yet is who the Reuters journalist was (was he really just a journalist in the wrong place, wrong time?) and who was in the truck attempting to assist those shot? I thought they said that there were two children wounded in the "good samaritan" vehicle that stopped, and that originally, our forces had no explanation about how those kids were injured.

The WikiLeaks man put the incident in the worst possible light; the other guest, while he didn't think this was done according to the procedures and rules, mentioned that the guys were there to reduce attacks on civilians and had been shot at many times from the ground, I guess by way of explaining why they jumped to the incorrect conclusion they did regarding what they were seeing on the ground.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think you are correct
What I found so confusing is that when the helicopter camera pans back it shows how far away they are and yet they circle the circumference very quickly.

It is obviously disturbing in 'good light' or 'bad light'.

I would think that the attack on the wounded man who clearly had no weapon and the good Samaritan Van would have to be considered murder and that the rules of engagement were either violated or in serious need of revies.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Top speed of an Apache is 192 mph
http://www.boeing.com/history/mdc/ah-64.htm

Even if they were half a mile away, and going at 140 mph, they'd be able to do a circuit in 80 seconds.
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DeschutesRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. That is my opinion as well
Edited on Wed Apr-07-10 08:55 AM by DeschutesRiver
I watched part of the video with audio again on DR yesterday, and it only strengthened my view on what I heard/saw.

And as you said, either the rules of engagement are whacked or they were in violation of them (as I thought I knew them to be). I couldn't believe what those guys were saying on the tape - it was absolutely vile. My first thought was that there is something deeply wrong with part of our military if this is how they handle things - refusing to engage intelligiently, and then acting like a bunch of animals without the need to follow any rules. My other immediate feeling was that his isn't who I want people in other countries to think Americans are.

I am hoping that incidents like this are isolated ones, but you know, I am really not certain what to think at this point.
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Bradical79 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's not too shocking that this happened
I remember complaints of the military lowering standards for new recruits (more than once I think), taking in people with lower aptitude test scores, and more moral/legal issues to reach recruiting goals. Can't say I'm surprised that some can't intelligently gauge situations on the fly, and tragedies like this happen. I'm more concerned by the deliberate cover up though.
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DeschutesRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Agree, the coverup aspect is seriously not good. nt
Edited on Wed Apr-07-10 01:23 PM by DeschutesRiver
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. 'which it claims shows the killing of civilians by the US military'
Wikileaks isn't claiming that. Why would they? All anyone has to do is view the video. No "claim"
necessary.
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