Corzine requests a ticket for falure to wear seat belt, pays it.

[madfloridian]

My hubby is from NJ, and he was shocked when I showed him the way people were attacking him when he was near death beause of a seat belt. He is paying his own medical bills, has apologized. I hope folks in NJ can find it in their hearts to forgive a man who nearly died when no one is perfect.

N.J. Governor Pays Seat Belt Ticket

AP) Gov. Jon S. Corzine has voluntarily paid a $46 fine for violating state law by not wearing a seat belt during the trip in which a car crash left him critically injured, his spokesman said Tuesday.
Corzine met with State Police Superintendent Col. Rick Fuentes, Attorney General Stuart Rabner and two state police investigators Tuesday at the governor's mansion in Princeton to discuss the accident, spokesman Anthony Coley said.

As the meeting ended, Corzine asked Fuentes for a ticket, Coley said. Fuentes wrote one, and Corzine wrote a check for $46, Coley said

Corzine fractured his left thigh and broke 11 ribs, his breastbone and other bones in the April 12 accident. He was riding unbuckled in the front passenger seat when his SUV, driven by a state trooper at 91 mph, was clipped by a truck and slammed into a guard rail near Atlantic City.

The governor plans to pay for his own medical treatment and recovery to spare taxpayers at least several hundred thousand dollars. A former head of investment banking firm Goldman Sachs, Corzine reported nearly $262 million in assets in his 2005 U.S. Senate financial disclosure statement.

Even the article is cold and clinical. I have not seen much sympathy. Odd. All about how much he is worth, all about how bad he was not wearing the seat belt. There is no real human feeling in any article I have read.

[meldroc]

1. I have respect for Corzine.

He took responsibility for his actions, and tried to get the message out so others might not repeat the mistake that nearly killed him. What else can I ask of him?

[madfloridian]

2. Did you feel human sympathy, or just a punitive mindset?

?

Most people who posted in all those ugly threads were just being punitive. That worries me.

[meldroc]

7. Human sympathy.

Realistically, he suffered enough - that crash broke just about every bone in his body, and he's going to be laid up, in excruciating pain for months. He still insisted on taking and paying that seat-belt ticket, so I applaud him for that.

[madfloridian]

10. "he suffered enough"???

Perhaps you need to stop there.

[meldroc]

14. What's that supposed to mean?

:wtf:

[madfloridian]

34. You have to ask?

Then you won't understand the answer.

[meldroc]

46. I think you might be attributing to me attributes that I don't have.

I live in Colorado, so I don't even know much about Corzine.

I'll just end this little discussion by saying that I hope Corzine gets better soon. Yes, I do sincerely mean that.

[madfloridian]

3. Piling on.....none of that now.

Other threads about how bad a guy he was had tons of stuff. Something is wrong with this picture.

[MadBadger]

4. I have gained so much respect for Corzine

[alkaline9]

5. I gave Corzine the benefit of the doubt...

...and I was happy when he was elected. I know he hasn't done the best job yet, but I still tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. What bothers me about this article is that he was given a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt, but no ticket issued for driving in excess of 25 mph over the speed limit? Seams to me that its somewhat of a personal choice to not wear a seatbelt, as it only injures you (much like smoking ciggs). But when you are going over 25 mph over the posted speed limit, that endangers everyone on the highway. This is a big problem in NJ. Everyone is always in such a hurry... Yet they make a big deal over his personally dangerous choice not to wear a seatbelt, but make little deal of the extreme speeding dangers.

Just my $0.02

[madfloridian]

6. My governor is a Republican, and I would feel

sympathy that was not mixed with political stuff.

Why do people in NJ feel this way...that punishment is more important than human feelings for one near death?

Is it part of the Bush punitive society where we punish without understanding?

[MOD]

13. Understanding what?

He was using the state supplied car and driver to violate the law so he could get to the Don Imus/Rutgers basketball team meeting and make a sound bite for political points.

As for his behavior afterwards, does anyone really think that if he didn't crash and no one knew that his SUV was doing 90mph that he still would have asked for a ticket? Nope, he only asked for the ticket to appear contrite for being responsible for the wreck and getting caught.

[madfloridian]

15. Yes, punishment over human feeling.

You made my point so well for me.

What is wrong with people in NJ who have a good Democratic governor and do nothing but want revenge?

[MOD]

17. What revenge?

He broke the law and should be punished for it like any other person, nothing more, nothing less. What I hear you say is that he suffered physical pain and so we should say to him don't worry about it. He put several lives at risk so he could speed to the Imuus meeting, is that really worth others lives even his own? Honestly, I see his wheel chair contrition as a phony I got caught sound bite. If really cared he wouldn't have done it in the first place.

[nonconformist]

32. Unbelievable.

The man nearly dies and you are acting like he deserves it, because he was committing a MAJOR CRIME (ie: not wearing a seatbealt) when it happened.

Are you fucking kidding me?!

[MOD]

He deserves to

be treated like everyone else in the same situation, no more no less.

Do you really believe that if you or I was going 90mph down the road and caused an accident that I would only get a $46 dollar ticket? He put the lives of others at risk so he could make a good sound bite so maybe he does deserve at little more grief. Are you telling me he doesn't even deserve the $46 dollar ticket b/c he was hurt?

[nonconformist]

37. Uh, he wasn't driving. But yes, I guarantee you that if you were a passenger

in that same accident and were severely injured, you would not be punished.

He asked for a ticket, got one, paid it. Paying for all his medical costs out of pocket. What more do you want?

I wasn't aware that not wearing a seatbelt is a high crime these days. My how things have changed.

Must be rough these days, to have to nit-pick at things like this so you can avoid the real crimes going on in government, no?

[MOD]

44. Seatbelt wearing

is not a high crime but it just shows the contempt the governor has for the rest of use that he has his State Troopers and SUV go 90mph in traffic putting others lives in danger so he can make his sound bite appearance.Not to mention the original false story that was released to cover it up. Why shouldn't he pay for his costs, after all he is essentially responsible for the accident? Or are you trying to blame the trooper who was driver or maybe the citizen they all but ran off the road?

[alkaline9]

22. I do agree that punishment before sympathy is a sign of the times, but...

... I also recognize that NJ has been a source of political corruption no matter which party is in office. I honestly thought Corzine's insight could help bring us back to where we should be. Maybe I haven't given him enough of a chance. But regardless, speeding on the Parkway or Turnpike... or even back roads for that matter is a BIG problem in NJ.

So, in conclusion, yes people are being too hard on him during his time of recovery, but yes we have a right to criticize his actions as he is only adding to the problems in our troubled state. What I'm most surprised about is the outrage at his lack of wearing a seatbelt (which to some may be why they feel no sympathy for him?!?), with little mention of the problems associated with going OVER 25 MPH above the speed limit!

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. Was the DRIVER given a ticket for speeding?

He was just the passanger. Why would he get a ticket for speeding?

[MadBadger]

12. Click it or Ticket

Not wearing a seatbelt gets you a ticket in NJ, and that is what the ticket is for I believe.

[alkaline9]

24. It does not appear that the driver was given a ticket, however...

... the fact that it was a state trooper plays even more into the problem. I see state troopers (and local cops too) breaking all kinds of laws ALLLLLL the time in NJ with NO consequences. I'm surprised that such a big deal was made of Corzine not wearing his seatbelt, when the accident probably could have been avoided if the driver wasn't being so aggressive.

I mean, if the trooper was going, lets say, 80MPH (15MPH over the limit), would he have had a better chance at avoiding the accident? Would the driver who veered into his lane maybe have seen the vehicle coming with enough time to realize that a lane change wasn't a good idea? What if the trooper was going 65MPH, the legal limit? I think it wouldn't matter much if Corzine had his belt on at that speed.

I love NJ for many reasons. The way everyone is always in such a hurry on the highways is not one of them though.

[xultar]

31. I don't get why the trooper pulled out without the Gov buckled in.

[alkaline9]

43. because police in NJ don't care about the laws they break...

...and that's exactly the problem!!!!

...if we get mad at the bushistas for breaking the laws, it only makes sense to get mad at all "in power" who break laws. This has always bothered me about police in general.

[HamdenRice]

45. Troopers and officials get a pass

That's what gets the locals pissed off. They don't get a ticket for speeding because officials and troopers are allowed to speed if in their discretion they decide it is warranted.

So technically no offense was committed.

[Kingshakabobo]

40. In case you haven't noticed, he wasn't the driver of the vehicle.

Last time I checked, you can't get a speeding ticket for being the passenger of a speeding truck. The trooper was driving - with the emergency lights flashing........that doesn't excuse him for reckless driving but it probably absolves the trooper from a ticket as well.

[seabeyond]

8. the behavior after accident says a hell of a lot more about the people piling on

than it does about corzine.

[TahitiNut]

20. It sure does. After all, it's not like he's obese or a smoker, right?

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

51. could you imagine. obese, smoker AND no seatbelt. death deserved

i an see the hands rubbing together in anticipation.... as the du crowd validate their glee in some obtuse or meaningless way.

actually.... i was goa just say,.. yup, rollin eyes. see you beat me to it.

[Lobster Martini]

9. He seems to be recovering quickly--good for him

For a 60-year old guy with serious injuries, he seems to be doing quite well. Good. In my humble opionion, criticizing him because his driver was speeding and he wasn't wearing a seatbelt is petty. Didn't vote for him because he wears seatbelts. The more important question is, has New Jersey become better or worse since Corzine was elected? Better, in my opinion, and I hope he recovers quickly.

[HamdenRice]

16. It's not the seat belt -- it's the speeding

As several posters have pointed out, his car was travelling 91 mph, an astonishingly dangerous speed for himself and everyone else on the highway.

He was travelling that fast because NJ law apparently gives officials a pass at speed limits that apply to mere mortals, if in the opinion of the official and driver, they need to speed for security or because they were responding to an emergency.

Corzine was speeding because he wanted to get to the infamous meeting with Imus and the Rutgers women's basketball team. His vehicle struck another vehicle and initially the police tried to blame the accident on the other driver -- until his speed was disclosed. Under the traffic conditions in which the accident occurred, Corzine's vehicle could easily have caused mass slaughter.

In both NY and NJ, we mere mortal drivers were already pissed off at the frequency of officials, cops and fire trucks putting on their sirens, speeding, going through red lights, and generally disobeying traffic laws and creating hazardous conditions when NOT responding to emergencies, but merely for their own convenience. Everytime one of these officials does this, not only does he or she create a dangerous condition, but all other vehicles have to move aside, disrupting traffic patterns, leading to delays of 15 minutes to a half hour.

Under Giuliani, there was an entire fleet of City SUVs carrying around commissioners and sub commissioners and sub-sub commissioners constantly putting up sirens, speeding and disrupting traffic. (One of the few things I remember fondly about Ed Koch was that he almost always took the subway or walked, from his Greenwhich Village apartment to his City Hall office like everyone else.)

I am sorry Corzine was so badly injured, but a lot of pent up anger is being directed at Corzine and other officials who abuse trafic laws for their own convenience at great risk to our convenience and safety.

[madfloridian]

18. It must be a sad place there in NJ

To be so very angry at a Democratic governor at a supposedly Democratic forum...to feel the need for punishment first then the sympathy later.

Hubby is just shaking his head.

[HamdenRice]

23. punishment?

I don't live in NJ, btw. The point is that his car, presumably at his direction, was traveling at 91 mph. The police then tried to pin the accident on some poor schmuck who was trying to get out of the governor's way. There was a big scary manhunt/car hunt and all on tv for the truck that "caused the accident" -- until, of course, it was later revealed that the governor's car was going 91 mph. That smelled of cover-up.

There's also the loopy news that his driver may have been fielding emails while driving at 91 mph -- emails sent by a cuckolded husband that were excoriating the driver for having an affair with the sender's wife.

Somehow resolving marital issues and reading emails while driving at 91 mph doesn't seem responsible to me. Sorry if it seems honky dory to you.

Doesn't matter that Corzine is a Democrat or Republican, he and his entourage were behaving really badly. No one is advocating "punishment" but the whole thing was so tawdry that the empathy for him is a bit muted, and Corzine seems to recognize how bad it looks because he was practically in tears discussing it yesterday. I hope he recovers fully. But imo if you drive at 91 mph you can expect to have a really bad accident.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

35. I've been to Jersey several times

and in many places, going 80-90 mph is required or else yo'll get run down.

[HamdenRice]

41. They do go fast when it's clear, but ...

This was a case in which the highways were not moving at 90 mph, and Corzine's driver put up a siren and blasted his way through slow moving traffic with predictable results.

[slackmaster]

19. Good - He should do a series of Public Service Announcements too

His failure to use a seat belt affected the rates everyone pays for insurance.

[BlooInBloo]

38. Yup.

[madfloridian]

21. Wow..

The right wing philosphy of not letting any little misdeed go unpunished is really working. Like giving huge sentences to the least of offenders. Like beating a sick kid to death in a boot camp. Like arresting people who feed the homeless and sentencing them to jail.

Like arresting kindergarten kids. Hey, it was amazing how many DUers loved that idea.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1235

And the funny sad part is that those who have that mindset instilled after 6 years of this administration....don't even understand what I am talking about.

[HamdenRice]

25. Yeah, we just hate underdogs

You have convinced me. A six year old black girl by two burly cops in Florida wrongly arrested is an underdog whose arrest should make me question the punishment culture we have.

And Corzine's "punishment" and "persecution" as a comparable underdog raises the same issues -- an underdog who is the former chairman of investment bank Goldman Sachs, and one of the richest men in the world, elected to the US Senate (remember the clip of him in Farenheit 9/11 joking and laughing in that millionaires club, not responding to Black Congressional Caucus members' pleas for just one Senator to co-signer their protest of the certification of the election of George W. Bush?) and more recently to the governorship of one of the richest states in the Union by spending over $100 million on his campaigns -- an underdog because some DUers are not holding a vigil at his hospital, and are criticizing him for having his driver go 91 mph, jeopardize numerous lives, have an accident, and then try to pin the accident on some poor schmuck in a pick up truck who couldn't get out of the way in time.

I was sooooo wrong. You've convinced me of the evil of my ways. Poor, poor Jon Corzine.

[madfloridian]

26. You really do despise him, don't you?

What can I say?

[HamdenRice]

27. I don't despise Corzine at all

He seems like a reasonably nice guy with some decent policies.

But he had his driver go 91 mph. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is on crowded New Jersey highways? He might was well have been doing pistol target practice in the parking lot of a mall. He was pretty much guaranteed to maim or kill someone.

It was incredibly reckless and if you do things that reckless you are likely to get into really bad accidents. And he caused exactly the kind of accident that that official style driving causes -- someone not able to get out of the way in time gets clipped. Blaming the accident on some schmuck in a truck until the speed cameras reveal your recklessness, however, is a bit more seedy.

On edit: Your comparison of that little girl and Corzine as underdogs suffering excessive punishment, however, is way over the top.

[madfloridian]

33. Not really.

It is excess in the punitive mindset it both cases, in all cases like that. It is like punishing is the first thing in the mind, not understanding or sympathy.

[HamdenRice]

39. I don't get the "punishment" thing; but the accident is symbolic

If Corzine was playing Russian roulette with a police revolver and shot himself in the head, there would be a certain amount of sadness, but also a certain amount of, well if you play Russian roulette, you're likely to get shot in the head. If you drive 91 mph on Jersey highways, expect to break a couple of arms and ribs one day.

I will, however, grant that this accident is becoming a symbolic issue because NY and NJ are increasingly governed by billionaires. The rules don't apply to them, is the basic undercurrent.

As I mentioned up thread, I really didn't like Mayor Ed Koch, but he was this big doofy very New York kind of guy (who lived in a rent controlled apartment in the Village) you actually would run into on the street or the subway and you could say, "hey mista maya! You know they ain't picked up the gawbich on 112th Street in two weeks!" That was retail politics in the NY/NJ area. Dave Dinkins was a family lawyer from Harlem whose most important client was the widow and family of Malcolm X. Mayor Abe Beame was a tiny accountant for the city for years who worked his way up the ladder. Governor Mario Cuomo was an Italian guy who grew up over a grocery store in South Jamaica (the Harlem of Queens) and became a "Queens Boulevard lawyer" with a penchant for philosophy -- a guy who mediated housing disputes between black and white neighborhoods before he went into politics.

It seems there will be no more Beames, Koches, Dinkins, or Cuomos in NY/NJ politics.

As a perverse result of campaign finance laws, candidates can either take public money or finance themselves. As a result, the NY/NJ area government is becoming government by (and for) billionaires -- whether Democrat or Republican. Corzine is a quarter billionaire. Bloomberg is a billionaire. Spitzer is from a billionaire family. They cruise around in giant SUVs with blacked out windows, and they fly their private jets to the Caribbean on the weekends.

The accident -- caused by a super rich guy speeding and making everyone else on the highway get out of the way, the kind of guy you definitely won't run into on the subway or the Jersey Path train -- is symbolic of billionare arrogance. Initially trying to blame it on a guy in a pick up truck didn't help.

I wish him well, but he endagered many, many middle class lives. You can just tell from the tone of his own comments that he now "gets" it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. As if the trooper couldn't say

"sir, exceeding the speed limit is not only dangerous, but against the law. I am supposed to uphold the law. I won't do that."

If it were a private limo driver speeding at the governer's behest, fine, lay it on the governor. But a state trooper, whose duties would include ticketing speeders and scraping up highway accidents, could have refused. Or at least kept it at the normal 10mph over.

"Just following orders" is not a defense.

[greeninaz]

28. Sounds like he did the right thing

I wish him a speedy recovery. I'm sure he has endured a lot of pain. Just as others have said, I do think it was nice that he took responsibility for his actions.

[xultar]

29. I can't believe the trooper didn't say anything to him like...buckle up sir.

[Beelzebud]

30. You know the political climate is shit when a man has to apologize for almost dying...

They act like this was a DUI accident or something.

[Wolfetone]

42. What's the big deal?

It's a $46 ticket and no points on your license. It's a political stunt to give him the ticket and its just politically smart for him to pay the ticket. Generally a driver will not get a ticket for failure to wear a seat belt when they are in a major crash and so I don't think they should have given one to Corzine.

[uppityperson]

47. WTF is the purpose of this topic?

Is it to say Corzine acknowledged he wasn't wearing a seat belt and took responsibility for paying the fine voluntarily? That seems a good thing.

Or is it to attack the article and anyone who replies as being cold, clinical, unsympathetic? I don't understand what that is about.

What is the purpose of posting this?

[HamdenRice]

48. The accident is symbolic

It seems to me that this accident is becoming a symbolic issue because NY and NJ are increasingly governed by billionaires. The rules don't apply to them, is the basic undercurrent.

As I mentioned up thread, I really didn't like Mayor Ed Koch, but he was this big doofy very New York kind of guy (who lived in a rent controlled apartment in the Village) you actually would run into on the street or the subway and you could say, "hey mista maya! You know they ain't picked up the gawbich on 112th Street in two weeks!" That was retail politics in the NY/NJ area. Dave Dinkins was a family lawyer from Harlem whose most important client was the widow and family of Malcolm X. Mayor Abe Beame was a tiny accountant for the city for years who worked his way up the ladder. Governor Mario Cuomo was an Italian guy who grew up over a grocery store in South Jamaica (the Harlem of Queens) and became a "Queens Boulevard lawyer" with a penchant for philosophy -- a guy who mediated housing disputes between black and white neighborhoods before he went into politics.

It seems there will be no more Beames, Koches, Dinkins, or Cuomos in NY/NJ politics.

As a perverse result of campaign finance laws, candidates can either take public money or finance themselves. As a result, the NY/NJ area government is becoming government by (and for) billionaires -- whether Democrat or Republican. Corzine is a quarter billionaire. Bloomberg is a billionaire. Spitzer is from a billionaire family. They cruise around in giant SUVs with blacked out windows, and they fly their private jets to the Caribbean on the weekends.

The accident -- caused by a super rich guy speeding and making everyone else on the highway get out of the way, the kind of guy, who, even though he has now entered "public life", you definitely won't run into on the subway or the Jersey Path train -- is symbolic of billionare arrogance. Initially trying to blame it on some poor schmuck in a pick-up truck didn't help.

I wish him well, but he endagered many, many middle class lives. You can just tell from the tone of his own comments that he now "gets" it.


NB: This was a response to a sub, sub, sub thread on this thread that I resposted here because I think it explains why this story has gotten traction in the local press.

[stray cat]

49. Also paid for all his own medical bills

[chaska]

50. The fine: No more giant SUVs.

EVER!