Thoughts on Frum's firing by AEI

[Recursion]

Let's just take a breath and consider this for a minute.

David Frum, David "Axis of Evil" Frum, the posterboy neoconservative speechwriter who basically embodied the hubris and idiocy of the * misadministration, is now the only voice of anything approaching reason in the American conservative movement.

I've been bemoaning the rightward lurch of the country during Shrub's tenure so much that I think I may have missed how much it has increased since then.

I honestly don't think this was really about the much-linked "Waterloo" piece, though that was a convenient last straw. My friends who work as peons at conservative think tanks (CFR and Heritage; I don't know anybody at AEI) have mentioned that Obama's moderateness has made Bush's moderateness poisonous to conservatives.

Hear me out. I know a lot of people just spit coffee out and said "Bush's moderateness!?!"

Yes. Shrub was not actually very conservative even by the party standards of his day, and especially not by the standards of a year later. He was dogmatic, incompetent, and arrogant, and he appointed the wrong people to almost every position, but as the record shows, he was perfectly willing to not just sign but actively campaign for things like a Medicare prescription drug benefit, and an enforceable Federal set of education standards. (And yes, both were horrible bills; see my "incompetent" bit above).

To be honest, from the standpoint of governing philosophy there's not all that much space between Big Dog and W; Big Dog just knew how to make it work whereas W couldn't find his ass with a ream of toilet paper. Think about this for a minute. WJC governed essentially from the center-right end of the Democratic party, and did so with breathtaking effectiveness (I still get angry when I think of all that man could have accomplished with a Congress that actually represented the American people). On domestic matters, W didn't actually push the philosophy of government all that far to the right from where it had been since 1994 or so: the basic post-Reagan theory remained that the Great Society was dead but the New Deal was alive: monetary policy should be small-l liberal (ie, neoconservative) and fiscal policy should be cautiously Keynesian.

In the intervening year, the starboard chock has been removed from the ship of the body politic. Two years ago, Frum was up there with KKKarl as the symbol of why we hated conservatism. He hasn't changed any of his positions. This is not a David Brock or Ariana Huffington moment (do the kids on the board remember when she was a conservative?). He didn't decide he's suddenly a liberal. He hasn't even stopped calling himself a Republican. This was not an epiphany, and he's still not on our side: he's still a rabid Bush apologist. But the hinges have fallen so far off the door that, because he is associated with the GWB administration, he is too liberal for today's conservatives.

This, siblings, is where we are today. The lesson the right took out of the past few years was that GW Bush's sin was clinging to the post-FDR consensus that the Federal Government is not automatically guilty of the most vile crimes by the sheer fact of its existence. Frum is exactly where he (and George W.) was 2 years ago, but they have now found themselves unwillingly on our side of the abyss. This scares me.

[grantcart]

1. I think it is also part of a larger anti intellectualism

The conservatives have, from Steele to Palin to Hannety to Limbaugh become a group that believes in belief and not thought.

Its hard to tell if they hate Obama more because he is Black or because he is well read and educated.

The Bidens and the Obamas between them had atleast 4 advanced degrees from prestigous colleges. McCain and Palin were educational underachievers who barely finished their degrees. Their spouses are not well educated.

They don't like Frum because he doesn't agree with them and they don't trust him because they can't control him but they are afraid of him because he is literate, well read, thinks and understands mysterious vodoo thingies like paradigms.

[Recursion]

4. Yeah, the days of William F. Buckley are over, sadly

I joked in the OP that the kids on the board today won't remember when Arianna Huffington was a conservative (and, honestly, they probably don't), but this has me thinking. When I was coming of age in the late 80s and early 90s there was a vigorous and eloquent conservative intellectual movement: your Buckley's; your Bloom's; your Fukuyama's. I guess Fukuyama is still around (and I always liked his writings), but for the most part that is gone.

This is a shame because I think conservatism has some valuable things to offer society, when it's done intelligently. It would be nice to have a voice reminding us to be cautious about change, and to ask if the unintended consequences will outweigh the intended consequences.

[rhett o rick]

6. Pol Pot had a way of dealing with intellectuals. The killing fields. nm

[Hekate]

14. They tipped over into faith-based politics, blind following of autocratic leaders...

... some of whom seem outright unhinged from reality, others of whom seem consciously trying to bring down the American system of government.

Hekate

[Recursion]

16. We live in a Margaret Atwood novel

I don't like talking about Dominionists because it makes me sound paranoid, but... well... they do exist, and have a disturbing amount of political power.

[Hekate]

18. Weeelllll, back when I was relatively new to DU there was a lot of talk about those fanatics...

... and I did the research one dark and horrifying night. I love primary sources, as a general rule: what people boast about themselves is quite revealing. What I found out about them physically hurt me: I think I must have seized up a lot of muscles, but the upshot of it was my wrists and hands seized up and I couldn't use a keyboard for 3 months.

Since that time, when the subject comes up I simply refer people to TheocracyWatch.org. I can't go there myself.

Some people believe in the Devil; I believe in the Dominionists.

Hekate

[DJ13]

2. K&R.... sort of

I hit the UN button by accident, sorry!

[Recursion]

3. Happens to me all the time

I still think DU should take slashdot's lead and moderate replies rather than posts. But then they have a moderation process to OP, which DU doesn't.

[TTUBatfan2008]

5. Excellent observation...

They have gone completely off the deep end. Either you follow them in lock-step or you are out of the party altogether. Look at the Democratic Party. The tent is huge and there is a lot of disagreement among members of the party. These disagreements may be frustrating because they lead to gridlock, but then again dictators remove gridlock. The current state of the Republican Party is incredibly closed-minded to anything other than a hardline stance. For crying out loud, the bill that just passed is no more liberal than what Republican President Nixon proposed roughly 4 decades ago. He would be described as a socialist by many members of today's Republican Party.

[Recursion]

7. Obama is good at teachable moments

And part of me thinks he ended up sticking to the Nixon/Dole health care plan as a teachable moment: he was willing quite literally to campaign for and sign the other party's bill, and the other party threw a fit and went home. I expect this to be a talking point over the next few months: "As Bob Dole said when he proposed this idea..." or "As the Heritage Foundation published 15 years ago recommending this..."

[TTUBatfan2008]

8. Good point...

It really is insane when you look at it. I think the fact that they are running primary challengers against Ron Paul is a pretty good sign of how unhinged they've become.

[villager]

9. Our side of the abyss, indeed...

n/t

[Recursion]

12. I hope you're not reading this as a pro-Frum lovefest

I'm saying what we thought was the abyss over the past decade or so turned out to just be a pothole, relatively.

[villager]

13. No worries -- got exactly that from your insightful post...

Cheers!

:toast:

[Loudmxr]

10. After that pissant was sooo rude to Rachel!!! I feel like giving him a hug.

Wow! I am such a soft touch. After what Larry O said about someone else who got fired back a few years ago who has had trouble getting work. :hug:

You know David... Rachel pays AFTRA scale to be on the show.:think:

[Recursion]

11. Corollary

A corollary:

On some subjects, specifically immigration reform (and I would rather gnaw my own testicles off than admit this), we will miss George W. Bush and his ilk in the coming years.

[Hekate]

17. You don't think Obama will be able to manage the jingoists, or just that they'll get too nasty...

... for anyone to overhear without heaving in their socks? and/or too violent to manage?

As for your other comment, yikes! :spray:

Hekate

[Recursion]

19. I read Free Republic, and occasionally post on non-political matters

What shocks me, over and over again, is how much those guys hate W and McCain over immigration. Not "disagree with". "Hate". Despise. Consider traitors.

Health care taught me that if a question can be "managed", Obama can probably manage it. But immigration brings out the real honest-to-God unhinged shit; the "my-white-male-privilege-is-being-subverted-time-for-fight-or-flight" shit. I'm pro-gun-rights enough that I post anti-gun-control posts on DU, and these guys' ideas about armament and self defense scare the hell out of me.

I sometimes wonder what *'s Presidency would have been like without 9/11. A lot would have been messed up badly, but we probably would have gotten a decent immigration reform bill. But IMO the violence we've seen so far pales next to what will happen if Obama manages to rationalize our immigration laws, even though he will probably do it on a position somewhat to the right of what Bush and McCain proposed 6 years ago.

[mindwalker_i]

15. Fired by AEI - sounds like a vowel removal

[The Magistrate]

20. Indeed, Sir: What Does A.E.I. Owe You?

Sorry, could not resist.....

[mindwalker_i]

21. It took me a minute to get that...

Damn, I'm humbled :D

[Recursion]

22. I rarely actually spit beverage on my keyboard

But you, The Magistrate, have made it happen.

[Hekate]

24. Bad Magistrate! Bad, bad!

:spray: :rofl: :spray:

Well done pun, Sir!

Hekate

[HCE SuiGeneris]

27. You are back in fine form,

sir. It is damn well heartening to see.

:toast:

[TomCADem]

23. Bush's Moderateness? Dubya and Clinton Were Similar?

Sorry, this is a bridge too far that romanticizes the Bush years. George W. Bush epitomized today's conservatives with its constant focus on threats from the outside, as well as its demonization of political enemies at home. Too criticize Dubya's tax cuts was portrayed as unpatriotic. To suggest that there was not that much daylight between Dubya and Clinton is a complete fantasy whether you look at foreign policy or fiscal responsibility.

[pscot]

25. Interesting post

I think Bush and the teabaggers represent two aspects of Reaganism, which seems to have split. Shrub's agenda was mainly corporate and militaristic. Big government and high debt levels were ok as long as big business got theirs. I don't think he even cared much about the country. Bush wasn't a deep dyed jingo, except in so far as jingoism was an effective tool to manipulate public opinion. The Bush family are internationalists. They may pay lip service to the idea of America, but they don't much care what happens to Americans, other than their business friends. The teabaggers, on the other hand, are an outgrowth of the Reaganite social agenda, which revolves around god, guns, gays and taxes. The two sides have always been fundamentally at odds, and are drifting apart. It's a tectonic shift within the Republican party, and the GOP leadership is in danger of falling between the moving plates. The business wing of the party is not opposed to big government, as long as it lets business be business. They are perfectly content with a kind of corporate socialism such as Mussolini envisioned, that keeps feeding tax dollars into their insatiable maw. Both the Republicans and the DLC wing of the Democrats seem to be working toward that end. The teabaggers haven't tumbled to this yet. They're mad at the bankers, who are sort of a traditional populist whipping boy, but they haven't yet made the connection between corporate domination of the government and their own problems. The Republicans are torn between their corporate sponsors and the outraged populism of their voters. They'd love to fan the rage, but they can't afford to have their supporters breaking the windows down at corporate headquarters. The teabaggers are essentially leaderless right now, but they're ripe to be picked up by some demagogue and fashioned into a blunt instrument. Palin is too dumb to grasp what's happening. Beck is making noises in that direction, but he doesn't have the huevos for the job. If the recovery takes hold this all may die down for a while, but the troubles in the economy aren't over by a long shot and the issues driving the teabaggers aren't going to go away. We do live in interesting times.

[DainBramaged]

26. And we worry the modern (?) Conservative movement is going to make gains in November?

When a prominent voice like Frum's is silenced by the Right, how can we be convinced that any message these backwards looking fools have will be accepted at face value by non-political citizens? Look at the spot polls on HCR now that the SUBSTANCE is being given to the people. They LIKE change, and all of a sudden the people who NEED HCR the most are realizing that once again, the Right LIED to them.


And we thought only Cheney had bad aim........

[struggle4progress]

28. Lots of little Dr. Frankenstein's are meeting the monsters they made

[Gabi Hayes]

29. big problem with your premise is that, while Bush himself was clearly a boob, his stringpullers were

not

they got more than they possibly could have hoped for during their eight year plunder of the economy, destruction of all meaningful regulatory controls, evisceration of public education, Federal Societization of the judiciary, greasing the skids for the final plunge to the bottom for our rapidly disappearing middle class

they've put the country squarely on course to third world status; Clinton and Obama's DLC/Wallstreet clubbers are merely the ligaments connecting Reaganomics to NAFTA/GAT/WTO corporate fascism

how much more clear does it have to be made before people realize they've been had